First off, the affair did not stop. They work together. What is the point of "monitoring" if you know this? Secondly, Dr Harley said to expose REGARDLESS of the state of the affair, even if it ended years ago. Unless he made a radical 360 degree change in his position yesterday on the radio show. I didn't listen to yesterday's show yet.

Bottom line is that if you won't follow the "constructive" advice you get then you are wasting our time and yours. Don't ask for more advice if you haven't followed the previous advice.

Feelings are not truth. Feelings have no intelligence. How would you know what is "best" since you have no experience or expertise?

Tech Man,
Please note that the message I replied to originally included this: "Well, I caught WS carrying on electronic conversation with OM again last night."

So the affair is still going on.

Also please note that expose the affair was in my #4, I didn't make a big deal about it because I assumed you were on board with the plan. You need to fully expose and all at once. Trickle exposing is too easy to construe as trying to punish the WW, just big bang expose!

You will know you did a good job exposing because your WW will be furious. FURIOUS. Because you will have been effective in impairing her continuing her affair. She'll be happy with you when you enable it.

Plan A includes exposure, you just don't discuss the hard measures with the WW. You put together your plan and you execute your plan. You can discuss things when you have a wife again. As long as you have a WW, you just execute your plan.

So in order that you can OWN your plan. Put it on the board here. The pros (not me, I am a Survivor of a serial cheater) will help you tweak it, then help keep you accountable to yourself.

Executing your plan is the kind of thing that lures WW's back home. Chickening out is the kind of thing that puts gas in the car so she can go on dates with the OM.

Walkthewalk, you said "if you do find evidence then expose. " He has embraced this comment as his loophole to AVOID EXPOSURE. He has not exposed. He has the evidence and he will not expose. Of course he wants to find any excuse to avoid exposure, and he used your post to do so.


He has embraced this part because it gives him an OUT.

Why not just admit that you hadn't read the thread properly, and you didn't see that the poster had already flat-out refused to expose?

Having missed that fact, the whole premise of your advice was wrong. Step one of Plan A is to expose the affair. The WW and OM work alongside each other very day. They work in politics, and have a reputation at stake. The poster does not want to expose to the employer because they need his wife's income, and also, he does not want to harm her career. What he is really saying is that he is willing for them to work together indefinitely, if she can convince him that she has nothing to do with OM at work. You, of all people - the victim of a serial cheater - should know that his wife will not break her addiction while she sees OM for hours every day.

Your post, telling him to meet the most common ENs, gave him just the permission he needed to to reject exposure, while thumbing his nose at those of us who correctly gave Dr Harley's advice, and thanking you for your "constructive" advice.

If you could just be honest and tell him you were wrong, and that he needs to expose to the employer FIRST, because while they work together the affair will continue, you might help him get the gumption to do the single most powerful thing he can do to end the affair.

Techman, I was afraid of exposure too. It just felt wrong and I thought my situation was different than everyone elses. It didn't make any sense to try and win her back by making her angry. My wife had me thinking that if I just did everything she said, we would probably save our marriage. And after I exposed she said she was done and that she had planned on ending the affair and fixing the marriage before that. She also said my exposure proved OM cared more for her than I did, because the exposure hurt her and OM would never do anything to hurt her.
But not long after that, she started trying to end contact with him. If we had moved away at that time, we would probably be in recovery by now.

Hi Guys,

Let's all just take a breath and calm down. I am sorry but I did not mean to insult anyone that is giving me advice or "cherry picking" advice. I am taking it all in and am trying to deal with everything here. I am hurting about as much as the day I was served with divorce papers and I have 2 young daughters at home to think of. I am sure the majority have already been through what I am going through right now at the height of their betrayal. So, please give me some slack.

By thanking the other member for "constructive advice" yes I did mean that I felt a full exposure was a bit destructive at that point in time. But, I am in no way dismissing or denying the other advice of a full exposure. I NEVER said that I am flat out refusing to do a full exposure. I just mentioned that I needed to do some more monitoring and gather evidence. I didn't even know the extent of the relationship until recent and a full exposure was always on the table and I was thinking it is inevitable.

With the above being said, the latest is I confirmed the affair is/was physical. The WW talks with the OM every day several times and is constantly texting him. This is even though she knows I am watching and am upset over it. She admitted to me today that she tried but can't quit him. So, she is in the typical mode of the WW being addicted to her affair. I explained to her what limerence is and about how quickly it fades. And, I tried to explain to her the other realities of the path she is taking. She thinks everything is going to be fine and dandy if she runs off with her OM to live happily ever after. And, OM seems to be rooting for this too as this is his wish. So, WW is an addict and won't quit! She keeps on telling me "but I don't love you anymore" as in basically saying that she "loves" the OM and not me and not even willing to TRY to bring love back into our marriage.

So, it seems that I am ready for a Plan A full exposure. And, NO I never said I would tolerate WW and OM working together forever. The plan was originally to demand that she seek out employment elsewhere right away but not just up and quit immediately. But now it would have to end immediately IF she wants to come back to me and work on our marriage. That is a big IF for her and I don't know what she is going to decide. But, she will have to decide after an exposure is done. I don't have much to lose at this point with how addicted she is to OM.

Thanks for sharing your experience! Yes the full exposure is scary in as delicate of a situation we are in when this happens. With you saying "we would probably be in recovery by now" does that mean that the full exposure didn't work completely and she is still in an affair? What is your current status?

The exposure definitely worked, but we live within minutes of OM. So even though the exposure caused her to see the problems with the affair and gave her the desire to end it, we still kept running into OM around town. Each time we ran into him, she would fight with me and sneak and call him. I would catch her and she would feel bad and end it again.
But that kept going on for a couple months. So by then the effects of the exposure wore off and the last time OM stalked her and ran into her, she started the affair back up.
So if we had moved right after the exposure started to have its effect, we wouldn't have had those months of running into OM.

Now it has been a month since she resumed the affair. She moved out and said I could have the house and she was done. I exposed to a couple new friends we made since the initial exposure and false recovery. She eventually got tired of not being at home after 2 weeks and is back at home with me and the kids. She was fighting with me daily and sleeping in the spare bed. Now she is back in our bed but still saying she wants me to leave and she won't stop talking to OM. Everything she is doing now is exactly the same pattern as it was after the first full exposure. So I assume she will eventually try to end the affair again. But unless she agrees to move away, the affair will just restart again.

But I remember when everyone told me to expose. I thought, "these strangers cannot possibly know my situation and the relationship that me and my wife have." My wife was already showing signs like she wanted to end the affair and fix the marriage, so I figured exposure would ruin that. And at first I thought it did and thought I made a huge mistake. But after 2 weeks or so I started to notice things improving.

Also, either your wife or OM is going to have to quit their job. Before my exposure, my wife convinced me that she could work with him and it would have no effect on her. But that lasted about 2 days before she was sneaking around with him. Even if your wife really tries to ignore him at work, he is going to keep doing everything he can to get her to talk to him. Luckily, in my case, OM was already trying to leave their job for a different career.

So I would imagine your wife is going to say the same thing, that she will be able to work with him and work on your marriage.
So you will probably never convince her to quit. But after the exposure, one of then will probably decide to quit or get fired. Then you will have to move right after that, to make sure y'all never run into OM again.

And it will be chaos after the exposure. She will tell you that you ruined any chances of saving the marriage. She will say you let her down and she never would of thought you woukd hurt her that way. She will also blame you for hurting OM. She will claim he is innocent and the affair was all her fault and that she pursued him. She will make him out to be this noble guy that wouldn't hurt a fly. Even some of the people you expose to will blame you. But take comfort in knowing that you are doing the right and noble thing, no matter what she or anyone else says or does to you afterwards.

Forgot to add:

I don't know if it matters or not, maybe someone else can say, but I did all the Facebook exposures late at night. I sent a message to all the people so they wouldn't get it until they woke up the next day. I didn't want the first couple people to notify my wife or the OM and prevent me from finishing messaging everyone else.

P.S. if you post some of the things your wife says to you about the affair, I guarantee it is the exact same thing my wife or some of these other guys wives said to them. It's like they follow a prewritten script. It's crazy.

I am glad to see you are coming to your senses. Hopefully this awakening will be backed up by actions. We will see. WE are not here to give you "slack" but to guide you out of a crisis situation, if that is possible. You are in a serious situation where action is the only solution. Hopefully you can see that. Telling us to "calm down" won't inspire anyone to volunteer their own free time to help you so I would avoid snark like that if you want people to continue to help you.


Just know that lecturing her like this only pushes her away. It is like lecturing an alcoholic who is falling down drunk. It achieves nothing and only causes her to defend her affair.


I would go read through the Exposure 101 thread linked in my signature and come back and tell us your plan. WE can give you feedback on strategy and timing.

So what is your exposure plan? When will you finally be exposing?

Dollarbob, thanks for sharing your story and experience. It really helps to encourage me to do what is needed to be done and go for full exposure.

MelodyLane, sorry I am not trying to give anyone "snark" I just want everyone to be civil in this discussion. I am certainly appreciative of all help offered from EVERYONE on this thread. Yes, I am starting to wake up and realize what needs to be done. At the beginning before I found this site and it's advice, I thought that she truly meant it when she said she would make up for this by ENDING the affair. I gave her time and was still holding out hope that SHE would take the steps necessary to end it now that I know and she knows how damaging it is. Clearly I didn't realize how addicted she is and how the "fog of the affair" still exists. Yes the lecturing also seem to not really go anywhere. She doesn't argue back much but takes it all in and remains silent. Yesterday she said in response to me "but he makes me laugh" like that was enough to keep OM around! We spent the afternoon together for a few hours without the kids which helps. I counted at least 3 times I made her laugh without even trying. But, OM is the one that gets credit for what he does. That "fog of the affair" is pretty thick right now!

And yes MelodyLane, I read your Exposure 101 post several times now and am going to use the templates you posted.

BrainHurts, The exposure plan right now is to gather a list of the targets. The first to be hit are the OM's family and friends, then HR and supervisors at work. Then, I will move on to political contacts/associates of WW. It's a bit complicated because I had to tell my in-laws (I know I shouldn't have before exposure) So, they know and are chomping at the bit to talk with WW but are keeping it quiet a bit longer as per my wish. But, there is going to be a public political event Wednesday night where the in-laws know the WW and OM are going to be at the same place. So, they want to confront OM in public and make a scene. I didn't say anything to stop this plan. So, I figure the day after on Thursday of this week is when I'll blast out my full exposure via Facebook and email.

Nobody was "uncivil" to you when they posted here in their spare time, to give advice to a complete stranger, hoping to help you avoid the horror story that we have seen here so many times, and that some of us, like me, have experienced first hand. You are the one who was uncivil in your pointed praise of one poster who clearly had not read your story, while giving back-handed digs at others who knew and were taking your whole story into account, and who were trying to save you.

We were right when we told you straight away that the affair would continue while the affair partners worked together, and you can see the proof of that in the fact that you are back here telling us how addicted your wife is, and how she has lied to you. You have experienced a second D Day, where you have come to realise how ruthlessly your wife was lying to all along about the affair being over - and we could see that coming, and were trying to spare you from that. Those of us who have experienced a false recovery know that discovery of the ongoing affair, and all the lying to your face while you lie bleeding, is actually more devastating than the original discovery.

We KNEW that you would feel as bad, if not worse, than the day that you were served divorce papers, when you discovered the ongoing affair. We were trying to spare you from that, and not "cut you some slack". What good does cutting slack do, to someone who is standing in the path of a speeding train? I thought you'd come here for help, not "slack".

Those of us who have been through workplace affairs (including me), made the mistake of nor exposing the affair to employers, and letting our spouse stay in the job. We endured heartbreak that cannot be described, when we found out that our spouses had sneaked out to have sex with the affair partner the very second the words "the affair is over" had been uttered. However, we acted in ignorance, long before we discovered Dr Harley's outstanding advice built on years of effective practice. I personally went through over three years of a false recovery with a workplace affair; the first phase lasted two years, during which I did not even consider that my husband could be lying, and having sex OW every time he worked away, and the second phase that lasted more than a year longer, during which time I tried to get him to abide by his promises not to see her again. The sexual contact only stopped the day I told him that if he went back to Brussels, I would not be here when he got back. He phoned his boss and resigned from that job THAT DAY. In-person contact never happened again. It takes drastic action like that to end a workplace affair. The promises of the unfaithful spouse mean nothing, just like the wedding vows.

However, I did not expose at work even then, as I had not read Dr Harley on this, and the phone contact lasted for another 5 years. My husband was about to retire when I discovered the ongoing phone contact, and it was only the fact that he was working his notice (he was in fact taking his leave, and would not go back to the office ever again) that made Dr Harley tell me personally that I could hold off exposing to his employer. He told me that if my husband had been continuing in that job, I should have done it right away. His being sacked from that job years earlier, due to my exposure (had I known to do it), would have been the best thing that could have been done for my marriage, and for my personal emotional health. You have no idea how much I had to recover from, after years of false recoveries. No idea.

I don't cut people "slack" when they arrive at MB, apparently broken from an affair, and facing a false recovery because contact is continuing and they choose to believe their lying spouse. Instead, I leap into to rescue them from the horror that I went through.

I don't believe that "slack" will serve you at all. "Slack" won't have done you any good when your wife has taken off with OM, after their affair has become even more entrenched. It won't serve you well to have tried to protect your standard of living by pretending not to know that the affair continues at work, when you eventually find yourself divorced. It won't serve you when you find OM living in that home that is paid for by your wife's income - the home that she will hang onto, after the divorce. "Slack" won't serve your children when their family is broken and they have to split their time, on the order of a court, between the shabby apartment you'll be forced to move into, and your wife's home where she lives with OM, who resents them, after the inevitable divorce.

You need to go elsewhere if you want cuddles. Here at MB, we give people Dr Harley's advice and we urge them to use it straight away, without diverging from it. We NEVER give people the slack that allows them to bury their heads in the sand - but we are always civil. Don't put our backs up any more that you have done already, by casting even more insults.

No one has been "uncivil" on your thread and I don't appreciate your little lecture. If you feel that posters are "uncivil" then report us to the moderators and have us banned.


But we do realize how fogged out she is and tried to convey this to you. It hard to help someone when they reject the given advice in place of their own inexperience.


Just keep in mind that the OM is probably not lecturing her so doing so only makes him look good. You don't want to do that!


Sounds like you did a good job! However, her love bank is closed to you; it is open to the OM, which is why it is so critical that you run this dog off.


good!!


THEN, you need to expose the affair THAT DAY when that happens. Maybe schedule this for the exact time they are confronting him? You cannot afford to WAIT because once the word is out, he and your wife will pre-empt you and spin the truth. The spun narrative will feature you as the "crazy, jealous husband who imagines every man is out to get his wife." You cannot afford to lose the element of surprise. Her parents plan to confront him is FABULOUS and will help you tremendously. We have had many affairs destroyed by caring parents.


The day OF. And you can't blast it out on facebook. Even if he is your facebook friend, he just has to delete and block. You need to PM each of the OM's targeted contacts. Have you made a copy of all of his contacts?

Do you know the OM's parents? Your inlaws can strike a huge blow to this affair by telling the OM that he will NEVER be welcomed in their family. If you and her parents also reached out to his parents with this same message

p.s. I want to APPLAUD you for bringing in her parents as allies. They can be so beneficial! The odds are stacked against you because of the length of the affair, but this is the kind of opportunity that compensate for the extra entrenchment. The longer the affair goes on without exposure, the harder it is to save your marriage.

Thanks! I was unsure at first as they were more lenient than I expected when WW served me with divorce papers and took the kids to live with them. Luckily I was able to salvage that and get WW back to "work" on our marriage. But, her parents are religious and are outraged at what her daughter is doing. I never thought I would hear her father call the things he called her to my face. But yes they are going to make it clear to OM that he will NEVER be a part of their family nor will he ever be allowed to be around them. But, the WW was already told this in the past and doesn't seem to care much.

Yes I am very worried about how the odds are against me due to the length of the affair. But, I can only hope to do my best and expose ASAP. After that, I think there isn't much else I can do but hope it dies and she truly wishes to rebuild our marriage. The OM if originally from another city about 2 hours away from us. The WW did mention to me the other day referring to OM - "He said that if he doesn't have me, he is moving back to X city" as I would feel sorry for him. But, I am hoping this is the push needed to drive him right out of town.


Yes, I think you are right that the day OF would be best. I will be watching the kids but can expose at the same time. And by "blasting out" I did mean on PM via Facebook. I am no expert, but I know how easily someone can delete something that is posted to their "wall" So, yes the plan was for PMs on Facebook. I don't currently have OM's list of friends. I will have to compile them tonight and tomorrow. He blocked me on Facebook last year when I was suspicious so I have to work around that. I don't know OM's parents as they live out of town and I have never met them. But, they are getting a PM from me with my phone number in case they want to chat about the facts of this issue. OM's mother is very active on Facebook and is always commenting on WW's posts. So, I know she will read my message!

Thank you all for your advice and steering me in the right direction during this confusing time!

I can't begin to tell you how fortunate you are that her parents actually CARE about her and are willing to intervene. OM are typically COWARDS who will run at the first sign of trouble. This is why it is so critical for you to open up a can of HELL on him. I expect him to run for his life.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting it out there will ruin the fantasy aspect. Even if the affair does not immediately die, I assure you it will crumble fast. Exposure will take all the fun out of the affair when everyone is standing around watching with a disgusted look on their face.


You have a LOT working in your favor.

You are correct that after exposure, the best you can do is hope the affair dies while you present a PLAN to create a romantic, passionate marriage. You have to eliminate any and all unattractive behavior and sell her on the idea of a GREAT, PASSIONATE MARRIAGE. Tell her you don't want the old marriage back. That means NO MORE LECTURING. Have you read lovebusters?


Perfect! The reason you want to expose on the same day that he is being confronted is so this has a tsunami effect and so they can't pre-empt you. It is the best way to bust up an affair.


You are doing great!

Thanks MelodyLane! I appreciate the advice and encouragement!

Well today is exposure day. It seems that the WW parent's are restraining themselves. They told me this morning "We talked it over and think it's best that YOU confront OM first. This way, WW will see YOU as the one putting an end to things and YOU being the one that cares about this. THEN, we will pile on afterwards." I get their point and it makes sense. So, I believe I am going to have to be the one to confront OM today and give him a talking to. We will see what happens after that with the in-laws.

As for the exposure, I was going to go to their HR department and inform them tonight of the workplace affair. But then I caught the caveat on the "Outing 101" post about giving your WS 1 month to find another job FIRST. Otherwise, THEN you expose to their HR should WS not comply. Should I go this route? It just conflicts with the "expose to as many targets as possible and don't trickle expose or threaten WS to expose" So, I was just wondering if I could get clarification on this?

I'm running out the door right now, I'm sure others will be along shortly. While it's great that you have your IL's support, they don't know how to deal with affairs.

Confrontation of OM will not work without a full blown exposure, PERIOD. Confrontation is more like the cherry on top in terms of fighting an affair, an accessory - not the main strategy.

Please just follow the instructions here, to the letter.