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Hello, I have read here the good support that is given and decided I should post as I am at a loss in my marriage and don't know what to do anymore. I need some advise from people outside my circle I think would help.

Married 12 years to my wife. I love her immensely but I am afraid her cheating is going to destroy this marriage. I been trying to get past it but it is hard and putting more of a strain on us. I know it sounds like most on here but the marriage was good. We were friends first and became a couple. I took to her right away as I loved being with a girl that I just liked spending time with. Problem was she was worried on getting married as I more of a dating past than her. She kind of grew up sheltered a little and what some would considered overweight. I didn't care as I was past dating for just looks and I thought she was beautiful anyway. She was always stalling on marriage saying no way I could marry her.

Got married and started a life. Now I have to admit my job is hard and demanding and when I say hard I mean that I can travel a bit for work. I hate it too but it comes with the territory as I was doing well at my company. My wife doesn't work and I didn't want to make her if that made her happy. I provide a pretty good homelife for us and she loved it. About 3 years ago she met some friends at a volunteer event and they got her into fitness. She really took to working out (when all the other years she said she hated it) and looked great. Her self esteem really improved I was happy for her. But I never told her to do that.

With her new body image came a new personality, complaining about my traveling, or just little things. When I come home from work it was I miss you with sex etc. That started stopping. She was more and more involved on her computer. Sorry I don't mean to post a lot trying to give background. Cut to the chase I got a call from a woman asking to meet me. After some back and forth I agreed. She informed me that her husband and my wife were having an affair. She had tons of proof to show me. I was floored and devastated. I think reading the communication between them hurt the most.

I confronted her and she denied and after I told her who I met she broke down. Said it got out of hand but she loved the attention. That I was only the guy to give her that but she wanted to see what is was like getting it from someone else. That I am her husband I am supposed to love her. She got addicted to it. I asked her if she wanted to be with him, she said no that she loves me that she wanted it to end. We talked a lot about our marriage and I took some ownership that I am gone a lot at times even though I try to keep the romance and help around the house when I am home for her.

After some time the hurt was still there but I was moving on. I loved her and didn't want to throw away our family so easily. Couple weeks ago I was out at a fundraiser and one of the fathers at my daughters school pulled me aside. Said he been fighting to tell me but he heard from another father that my wife couple months ago was out at the beach with some friends and I guess drunk, went back to a hotel room and gave oral sex to kid in college (22 yrs old). Said the guys kid goes to college with the other kid and I guess it was talked about.

I was frozen. I felt anger and shame plus embarrassment all over. I went home and confronted her and she said yes but she didn't remember she was so drunk and again the attention from a younger cute guy took over. That she didn't want our marriage to end. I told her I cant believe it that I forgave her from the last time. I don't know what to do. I hate for my daughter to have a broken home and throwing away 12 years. But I am having hard time with the betrayal.

To know my wife this is crazy. She never even gave a bj till we got married now she is in a hotel room with a strange college age kid? I have faults I know but I never stopped showing her affection and such. Always made her feel sexy even with her overweight which she used to thank me for all the time. Now she loses all this weight and she does this. She says cause she never had a life till me and she feels she missed out on her youth that I am away so much she felt lonely. She is begging me to stay but I don't know. Every time I want to move on I have these images of her stuck with me.

I just don't know what to do. Apologies for the long post. I didn't know how much to put out there. Can you get past this stuff? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by GB333
I just don't know what to do. Apologies for the long post. I didn't know how much to put out there. Can you get past this stuff? Thanks.
Welcome to MB. I am sorry to hear about the events in your marriage.

The answer is that you can "get past this stuff", if you can be confident that it won't happen again, and if you both work on building a better marriage than the one you had when the affairs took place.

The way that you gain confidence that it can never happen again is for you to build an integrated marriage, where you and your wife do everything together, which means, among other things, that she does not socialise with a bunch of girlfriends who get drunk at the beach. Women who go on "girls' nights out" tend to behave like single women, and there must be no more of that.

You would also need to build transparency into your marriage, so that you can see who you each communicate with, and there is no room for an affair to develop online or by phone.

How do you know that the first affair ended? How do you know that they do not still communicate online, and meet in person?

How did your wife's friends let her go back to a hotel room with a stranger? What kind of friends are these? Have you asked any of them about the events of that day?


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Thank you SugarCane for the response. I want to get that confidence that it won�t happen again I really do. I just don�t have much confidence in anything anymore I am sad to say. I don�t have confidence in us, myself in general as a husband or person so that will have to be worked on I agree with you.

As for the integrated marriage that is my fault and slip up with this I admit. I didn�t want to be that controlling husband and I know that looks stupid now but I believed her that she was on the up and up.

After her affair I took control of that but didn�t at first. What is funny is she used to always look at my phone worried someone was texting me! But I didn�t care I told her I don�t have a password on there and nothing to hide look away. After the affair was discovered I was checking and monitoring but after time I did it less and less. After work and stuff with our daughter I wanted to spend time together not going thru her stuff.

How do you know that the first affair ended? How do you know that they do not still communicate online, and meet in person?

Well this has taught me you can�t ever say 100% sure on anything but on this I feel that is no longer. His wife (they are not together and getting a divorce I believe) but she really went full tilt on exposing them after she met with me. She went on facebook, emails, the works telling a lot of people. So for a while there my wife shut her stuff down. I did gather he moved couple states away with his brother as she kept the house and the kids. I had blocked his number out and such. In our talks after she confessed that it was not him really but the thrill of being chased. She loved that she got the attention from someone else besides me. So I don�t think she had a real emotional attachment to him as he did with her. His ex gave me a print out of all their texts and emails. It was all him showering her with love and attention.

But it is hard for me to always know. When I travel for work I can only be gone for a day or weeks only coming home for the weekend. That is what is tough is the wondering.

As for those friends it was a big group and she was kind of there as a friend with a friend. So not her usual core group you could say. But she is friendly with most. I talked to the ones husband that I know. He was shocked. His wife claims she left the bar earlier and went to bed she was not there. Who knows. I don�t know the others well enough to talk to. Some of them are divorced and single so I guess they didn�t care.

Just so humiliating, since the other woman had publically exposed our friends and her family found out. I know she did the cheating but I felt embarrassed seeing people at parties or the store. Lot of my friends wanted me to leave her and are not happy I didn�t. Some of them don�t want their wives hanging with mine and I get that so it�s been rough. But this incident with the guy at the beach. I mean he is younger and who knows bragging or talking about. My daughter is old enough now to hear things. Such a mess.


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Originally Posted by GB333
When I travel for work I can only be gone for a day or weeks only coming home for the weekend.
This situation needs urgently to change. You need to find a job where you are at home every night. There is no point going on with the marriage if you don't change that.


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Your marriage will not survive your being away over night.
Not for one night and certainly not for weeks at a time.
The folks here know of what they speak.


Married 1980
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2nd DD PA May 16, 2016
WS 25 yrs addiction to porn
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Originally Posted by GB333
But it is hard for me to always know. When I travel for work I can only be gone for a day or weeks only coming home for the weekend. That is what is tough is the wondering.

Hello GB333, welcome to Marriage Builders. The above is the most critical issue in your marriage. You can't sustain a marriage if you travel. Your marriage will remain at very high risk until this is changed.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks for the replies and I agree with you. I been trying since her affair the first time. Problem is I cant find something that is comparable to my salary I have or close to it. I don't want to be away especially with my marriage in this state but I am the sole breadwinner so I have to keep looking. But its priority believe me.

I feel bad about it but it does bother me some before her stepping out it was not a big deal and all of a sudden it is. I been told its to distract her doing what she has done.

But you are right I need to get it fixed and that is on me not her.

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We are just telling you that traveling jobs are a disaster to marriage. You can't sustain the love or emotional attachment when you are not there. And it is impossible to save a crippled marriage under those conditions. We don't bring this up to distract from her behavior but to emphasize the major critical problem. You can't sustain a marriage if you are not there and you sure can't fix it if you are gone.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I know Melody Lane and it helps hearing that from you guys. Soon as I can move jobs I am doing it. Its at the point now when I am away even if I just go to work for the day my mind is running wild. Its very draining to say the least. I don't mean to ask a lot here just don't know where to turn. Most of my friends mean well but they are so disgusted with my wife that I don't know if I get a balanced view.

I get it why from them. If one of my friends was telling me this I would feel like I was watching some movie or something. It feel very surreal that this is going on with my marriage. My wife was such a good wife that this blows my mind she has done this. I am afraid our daughter is sensing something is different with us.

What bothers me is I cant get my mind an emotions in line. There are moments where I feel so betrayed and a loser I just want to end it as I am afraid I cant ever trust again. Marriage has to have trust. On the other hand I do truly love her and want us to be a family and all we have done for 12 years. There are a lot of good memories that have been had.

I just don't understand she knows I love her and I get people like to have attention and all of that but to just disrespect us I cant believe she did.

She tells me how upset and sorry she is and that its all done but others have told me once a cheater always a cheater. I am just confused.

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Originally Posted by GB333
She tells me how upset and sorry she is and that its all done but others have told me once a cheater always a cheater. I am just confused.

This can be true if radical steps are not taken to change your lifestyles. Your lifestyles are a major contributor to her adultery. For example, your traveling, her party girl lifestyle and her obvious poor boundaries around members of the opposite sex. She is practically a single woman because you are gone so much so that is how she lives.

But that can all change if you will adopt extraordinary precautions and use all these concepts to transform your marriage. It really does work.

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I am afraid our daughter is sensing something is different with us.

I would tell her yourself before she hears this from others. I wouldn't tell her about giving the college kid a blowjob, but she needs to know all about the affair and the name of the married man. Exposure is one of the most important first steps towards recovery. The more people who know, the more people to hold your wife accountable and support your marriage. Your whole family and circle of friends should be told.

If you and your wife can follow this plan, you can recover. If not, you are facing more affairs in the future.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Also, I would install spyware on her. Put it on her cell phone, computer and perhaps a voice activated recorder anywhere she would have private phone calls. This will help you rebuild your trust in her.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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MelodyLane thank you for the info. I love that checklist you sent, gives me something to use as a template. I wanted to respond to some of what you asked to give some info.

She has been exposed. The guys wife she had the affair with did a good job on that. She put it all over facebook, emailed where my wife volunteers, told pretty much she could. It was bad all around but all our friends heard and her parents. That was hard on her as she has always been the good daughter they were angry and in shock. Her parents before the exposure were little alarmed with her. They had mentioned her new friends and her constant focus on her new look with the weight loss.

Plus I found out after the affair she was leaving our daughter with them telling them she had this or that to do and meeting with the guy. That hurt me pawning our daughter off to sneak around.

You are right I need to be around more and I will. I have a recruiter lining up some possible jobs for me and first one that comes thru I am taking. I have met with my boss telling her the trouble at home and she has helped some giving me the shorter trips when she can.

One of the things she resisted me with was I wanted her to drop the workout girls. Not that I don't want her to work out but I don't think they were a good influence. When I went back and looked thru texts and emails I got a vibe from the one she was encouraging my wife to dive into her new look. I don't see where she was in on the cheating but not how someone should talk to a married woman.

She tried to say I was doing that so she get fat again and feel bad about herself. Totally not my intention. I even looked up what equipment she was using and bought all of it and created this whole gym practically for her at home. She still things I am punishing her.

Also to give an accurate picture she is not really a party girl but I can see why you would think that based off what happened. But that was not happening a lot. But I did not think anything of the kind when she would go out with some gfs for dinner or drinks sometimes. I thought it was good to get out cause staying at home all day and such but point taken.

Telling our daughter I can tell you I will struggle with. My wife too. That is going to be hard I don't know how to go about it to be honest.

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Originally Posted by GB333
Telling our daughter I can tell you I will struggle with. My wife too. That is going to be hard I don't know how to go about it to be honest.


I dreaded that too. Keep it factual and I agree with Mel, don't being up the college kid. My daughter cried but not because of her father's affairs. She cried tears of relief. The children had been discussing the tension between us and had decided it was because they were too naughty. To find out that it had nothing to do with them was an immense burden lifted off their little shoulders.

She may already know by the way but you should still give her the facts. Do not do this with your wife, do it alone.


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Thanks living well hearing from first hand accounts is helpful. Since this has all happened my total focus is protecting her form stuff so I was worried on what to do. My wife doesn't want to tell her as she says if we are going to work this out why hurt her for it. I don't know if that is her not wanting to deal with it. Her parents even have talked to us about it. Even though they are upset with for what she has done they too think it will be bad to tell her.

My point is that you live with your actions and I can tell she senses something. She has caught me couple times sleeping on the couch some nights and the sometimes quietness in a house that used to be full of energy and life.

I told my wife I would stress to her that we both love her and this is just something between her mom and me and nothing to do with her. My wife feels this is using our daughter to punish her.

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Originally Posted by GB333
I told my wife I would stress to her that we both love her and this is just something between her mom and me and nothing to do with her. My wife feels this is using our daughter to punish her.

It is a horrible thing to lie to kids about things like this. Your DD probably knows and your silence indicates your endorsement. It is terribly confusing and upsetting to kids because they learn that lying is ok under certain circumstances and younger children learn that wrong is right. It is not the truth that hurts kids, but lies and infidelity. It doesn't make kids secure or happy to believe lies about their parents.

Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist and he would recommend you tell your daughter for her own welfare. It is in no one's best interest to lie to your child.

Dr. Bill Harley on telling the children:

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The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

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Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


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The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

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My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Have you told your daughter of your WW's affairs?

Who all have you exposed it to?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Telling our daughter I can tell you I will struggle with. My wife too. That is going to be hard I don't know how to go about it to be honest.
Mommy had a boyfriend. His name is _____. Married people are not supposed to have girlfriends and boyfriends, and it hurt Daddy very much.


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Thank you MelodyLane I copied all that you sent and showed it to my wife to discuss. She is still fighting the reasoning to tell our daughter. She keeps thinking of it as punishing her by telling our daughter. How if we are going to make it work why have this always hanging over our family. I guess all that she has done is going to linger.

BrainHurts the wife of the husband that was having an affair with my wife pretty much told everyone. So her family knows, our friends, people in the community.

Prisca thanks for the way to phrase how to talk to her about this. That seems nice and quick to get it.

Wasn't a good weekend for us anyway. She was being distant and quiet and when I asked her why she said that I feel differently to her and cold. That I used to be so attentative to her and caring that she feels I have shut down to her. I told her that it is hard for me to act like that cause I did all that and she cheated on me still. I told her I would understand more if I was an ignoring husband or mean etc but I made a point not to be.

Plus I am struggling on this incident with the kid at the hotel. It just stays with me and I get so upset thinking about it. I told her if that was me that did that she would flip out. I mean when she was having her affair she was so jealous towards me. I hate this.

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Originally Posted by GB333
Thank you MelodyLane I copied all that you sent and showed it to my wife to discuss. She is still fighting the reasoning to tell our daughter.
You were never told to discuss this issue with your wife. You were never told to get her to understand the reasoning behind it. Why are you doing that?

Do you think that any unfaithful spouse welcomes their children being told about their affair?

You should have simply told your daughter about the affair on your own, without your wife's prior knowledge, agreement, or understanding. This is between your daughter and you, and is not dependent on your wife's approval. In fact, if you want to tackle this affair by only doing things that your wife approves of, you won't be able to do anything at all.

You need to get on with doing Marriage Builders. At the moment you are stalling by coming here to argue against it.


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Originally Posted by GB333
Thank you MelodyLane I copied all that you sent and showed it to my wife to discuss. She is still fighting the reasoning to tell our daughter. She keeps thinking of it as punishing her by telling our daughter. How if we are going to make it work why have this always hanging over our family. I guess all that she has done is going to linger.

This is why it is so important to NOT bring this up to your spouse beforehand. You should just tell the child yourself when you are alone with her. Your wife does not understand the best interest of your child when it relates to her bad behavior.

The only people being "punished" here are you and your child. Your wife is not the victim. Your child's need to know supersedes her self serving desire to avoid embarrassment.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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SugarCane and MelodyLane, my apologies I messed up and misread on what to do. I thought to tell her together would help I didn't talk to her that first intentionally. My mistake on not following thru like you advised.

SugarCane I am sorry I didn't mean to come across as stalling and arguing against the advice given. I greatly appreciate all the advice given I just screwed up. I don't mean to portray I am arguing against you or others I am listening and taking it in.

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Don't apologize, GB - you're the one who suffers the consequences. Listen closely to MelodyLane and SugarCane, because they won't steer you wrong.


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I am thank Markos. I didn't want them to think I was ignoring their advice and wasting their time that is all. I know it can seem frustrating when you take time to help and it seems its not being taken to. I am trying.

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Originally Posted by GB333
I am trying.
What are you actually DOING? Are you going to tell your daughter today?


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I guess I am not doing what is needed. I am going to tell her on Wed when she gets back. She is at her grandparents house on the lake with some cousins. I want to do it in person. I have researched therapists for my wife alone and as a couple. She doesn't want to do either. I have looked up stuff online about infidelity and gave to her to read. I am trying to stay on top of what she is doing online best I can. I have been applying for another position for work that requires no travel or less. In the meantime I did meet with my boss and at least for the time being I am on short and close trips when I do have to go so I can be home more.

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I don't know if any of what I posted will help or fix anything but I don't want to give up on us yet.

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Originally Posted by GB333
I guess I am not doing what is needed. I am going to tell her on Wed when she gets back. She is at her grandparents house on the lake with some cousins. I want to do it in person.

Thanks for the update, GB!! That is great. It is hard to tell kids but it is the right thing to do.

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I resarched therapists for my wife alone and as a couple. She doesn't want to do either.


That is good, because counseling is so destructive to marriages that you would be safer going to get pedicures. This is why Dr. Harley started the Marriage Builders program. He was appalled that marriage counseling was so destructive and had such an abominal failure rate. MC has an 84% failure rate and marriage counselors actually have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They have no earthly idea how to save a marriage. None.

Marriage Builders is very different in that it is a proven, step by step program that is entirely focused on changing bad marriage habits and creating romantic love. Harley studied the habits of couples who were in romantic, successful marriages and created his program based on their habits. He first tested it through a series of testing before he rolled it out in his book, His Needs, Her Needs. Most counselors don't believe it is possible to have a romantic marriage, but it can be attained if you use this program.

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I have looked up stuff online about infidelity and gave to her to read.

Please tear that up and give her the book Surviving an Affair. Most infidelity articles are a waste of time because they have no plan and don't understand the dynamics of infidelity.

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I am trying to stay on top of what she is doing online best I can. I have been applying for another position for work that requires no travel or less. In the meantime I did meet with my boss and at least for the time being I am on short and close trips when I do have to go so I can be home more.

This is great! I would focus all of your efforts on NEVER being apart overnight again. That is the biggest obstacle in fixing your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thank you for the book suggestion. I will take a look at that. Also that is staggering info on MC that you gave. I did not know that at all but good to know.

And you are right that is the goal to now be away. That is something that I have stressed to my wife from the start. That I don't condone the cheating and this is something that we cant just wash away but I am not blaming her 100% on any marriage issues. I too have dropped the ball and will own up to any of that.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you read this and listen to the radio clips that are in the thread?

This will help.


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BrainHurts I did read and thank you. Between that and the stuff I read on here about couple counseling failing at a high rate I was amazed about it. Really opened my eyes. Plus with what others have told me I am staying the course to tell my daughter when she comes home tomorrow from her grandparents.

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Originally Posted by GB333
BrainHurts I did read and thank you. Between that and the stuff I read on here about couple counseling failing at a high rate I was amazed about it. Really opened my eyes. Plus with what others have told me I am staying the course to tell my daughter when she comes home tomorrow from her grandparents.
Fantastic and let us know how it goes.


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Actually had the conversation last night with my daughter and it was really rough to do. We been having crappy weather here lately so my in laws came back last night and not today as the kids were getting restless being cooped up in the house.

I went to pick her up at my in laws alone as my wife was tired and wanting to take a nap. On way back I took her to a place to get some ice cream and told her I wanted to tell her something. I didn't dive into details thought giving more of an outline would be better. I just told her that her mom and me were going thru some stuff that happens sometimes in relationships. That her mom go to close to another man and crossed a boundary you don't do. That we are working on it but no matter what it has nothing to do with her and that we both love her just as always.

She was quiet for a bit but said she was worried something was wrong that she has noticed I been sleeping on the couch some nights and more fighting going on in the house. Ugh this just killed me to hear. She is worried that we will get divorced or will we be better. I hate that she even has to be dragged into this crap.

I told my wife when we got home our conversation. She got mad at me again referencing that I am using this to hurt her. But later that night she came down very emotional saying it hit her on what she did and the pain it has caused our family. She is like I have always been sorry to you but I don't know how to get you to see that. She told me that this was never about her and I but more herself and she didn't view it like that and me. That she got so caught up in it.

I don't know what to think about what she said but it was big emotional night with telling my daughter I didn't want to add to it. I just told her I love her but I just don't know what to think on her reasoning and such.

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Originally Posted by GB333
I didn't dive into details thought giving more of an outline would be better. I just told her that her mom and me were going thru some stuff that happens sometimes in relationships. That her mom go to close to another man and crossed a boundary you don't do. That we are working on it but no matter what it has nothing to do with her and that we both love her just as always.
Well, that was a horribly ambiguous message to give your daughter. I'd be surprised if a 6 year-old understands what "got too close to another man" means. Does it means she nearly bumped into him?

Why did you feel it necessary to cloud your explanation like that?

I can see that you thought that the important message to get across was to confirm that you and your wife were having problems, and crucially, to reassure your daughter that these have nothing to do with her, and that you both still love her.

However, the important message that you SHOULD have been trying to convey was that her mother had had an affair - she'd had "a boyfriend" as Prisca told you to say - and that this was wrong because married people should not have boyfriends or girlfriends. You should have left her in no doubt that her mother had behaved in ways that she should only have behaved towards you, her husband, and that you were very upset by what she'd done, and that THAT is why you have been unhappy and sleeping on the couch.

You were given these words by Dr Harley, earlier in the thread. They explained what you needed to convey:

"2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair."

What you were most concerned with, and thus concentrated on, was protecting your wife from your daughter's upset, which MelodyLane specifically told you not to do. In order to protect your wife from embarrassment, and possibly to protect yourself from her anger and the threat that she will leave you over this, it was easier for you to focus on the reassurance side of the issue - that it wasn't your daughter's fault and that you both still love her - at the expense of radical honesty about the affair. It is much more important that your daughter understood what her mother had done - she had a boyfriend - and that this was wrong because she is married to you, and that it had hurt you.

Your daughter needs to be taught right from wrong on this issue, and not have it sugar-coated with platitudes such as "stuff that happens sometimes in relationships" - as if this isn't so bad really, it's normal, and that it usually works out okay.


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GB333, Dr. Harley has a working proven plan for surviving an affair.

The first step in that plan is exposure.

What you did was not exposure.

Do you expect to survive this affair?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Ok maybe I was not clear on my post. One I don't know why you think my daughter is only 6. And I didn't give the play by play of the whole conversation but I believe she is fully aware of what is going on. She was not given details but I feel confident of the severity of what happened. Maybe I didn't full lay into her mom to her but I am sorry don't think a child needs to be fully aware of the details in this. I agree with you all she needed to know but I think there is a limit. Again it was conveyed that her mom did wrong.

Markos, not sure what you mean in your question. The affair has been exposed to our friends, her family, people in our community, my co workers know, now our daughter. How much more exposure is needed?

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Did you tell your daughter that her mother was having an affair, or not?


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Originally Posted by GB333
One I don't know why you think my daughter is only 6.
I apologise; I've obviously mixed you up with someone else. How old is she?


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SugarCane you don't have to apologize I didn't know if I mis typed her age or even put it on and not that it makes a difference but she is 9.

Markos, yes she knows her mom was seeing another man. I maybe didn't say affair in the conversation but she knows what happened I believe.

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Originally Posted by GB333
Markos, yes she knows her mom was seeing another man. I maybe didn't say affair in the conversation but she knows what happened I believe.

GB,

When you've done this part correctly, you won't say "I believe she knows her mother was having an affair." You will KNOW that she knows her mother was having an affair, because you will have told her.

I have never seen anybody come out well when they equivocate on telling their children straight out that their other parent is having an affair.

Exposure doesn't mean everybody knows - exposure means that YOU, personally, tell them. If you don't tell your daughter this, then that fails to set up a situation where your daughter can talk to you about it. It leaves her lacking a crucial path for support.

Last edited by markos; 08/17/16 02:31 PM.

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Markos I get what you are saying and it might seem I didn't use the correct or proper language in my discussion with my daughter but I am very confident she understood. Just in the fact the questions and stuff she talked to me about after to talked to her. Sorry this is my fault I didn't give a lot of specifics but wanted to post the general version.

And I just told her last night I am sure we will have further discussions. Plus my kid is one of those curious minds she will be asking if she is not clear on something.

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I guess I'm gonna just give up, GB. I'm trying to get across to you that when people say things like this, then this isn't going to end well:

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Sorry this is my fault I didn't give a lot of specifics but wanted to post the general version.

It means you didn't tell her straight out. There aren't levels of detailed specifics and a general version here; it's just one sentence.


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Markos I am trying to be patient and take all advice here but you seem to be hung up on the wording of my talk with my daughter. I don't know how to stress she knows her mom was with another guy. It might not have been the exact way others seem to want it to be but I will have further discussions with her. It was hard enough to do that and just a starting point.

Sorry I am making you want to to give up seems I frustrate people on here it was not my intention. I do appreciate the time and advice everyone gave me here. I hope all is well with everyone in the future. Thanks.

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GB, can you tell us specifically what you have told her? Does she know and understand that a) her mother has committed adultery and b) that adultery is wrong and why? The reason we are pressing you on this is because the goal of telling kids is to eliminate moral confusion. If they are not told the truth and given moral guidance, they are vulnerable to the immoral teachings of the cheating spouse. They end up more confused than before.

I have experienced this firsthand in my own childhood. My father took me to a hotel to meet his OW when I was 4. This is one of the many events that took place in my life that had a profound impact on my moral and emotional development. My mother knew of the affair but did not explain this confusing situation to me. [being "non judgemental" crazy] I even remember her sitting on the edge of the bed in her slip sobbing. I couldn't figure out why she was crying.

Seeing this OW seemed "wrong" to me, but since no adult validated those instincts I concluded I wasn't very smart and learned to doubt my instincts about right and wrong. Obviously, what seemed wrong to me was not wrong to the adults in my life, so the problem was my mind. I learned early on that nothing made sense and I could not figure things out.

Kids instinctively know right from wrong but when adults don't validate them and give them clear moral guidance, they learn to doubt themselves and grow up morally confused. Those of us who came from these dysfunctional environments know how it is and are pretty passionate about avoiding these pitfalls.


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Originally Posted by GB333
SugarCane you don't have to apologize I didn't know if I mis typed her age or even put it on and not that it makes a difference but she is 9.

Markos, yes she knows her mom was seeing another man. I maybe didn't say affair in the conversation but she knows what happened I believe.

Even 4 yo's know what a BF and GF are.

Exposure to a child: Moms and dads do not have BF/GF and go out on dates with them.

Well your mom has a BF (name and identify who the OM is) and is going out on dates with the OM.

Simple truth.

True without details.

Age appropriate.

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Originally Posted by markos
I guess I'm gonna just give up, GB. I'm trying to get across to you that when people say things like this, then this isn't going to end well:

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Sorry this is my fault I didn't give a lot of specifics but wanted to post the general version.

It means you didn't tell her straight out. There aren't levels of detailed specifics and a general version here; it's just one sentence.

****lecturing other posters against TOS****

Last edited by IrishGreen; 08/23/16 02:21 AM. Reason: Against TOS
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