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I have been seeing a male counselor, a pastor and a licensed therapist for 2 years, due to my husband's infidelity (7 years ago) pornography use and independent action regarding finances and other issues throughout our marriage.

The counselor's specialty is marriage, infidelity and pornography use. I was previously seeing two women counselors, but when we no longer had insurance I started seeing this pastor/counselor because he will meet with me (us) free of charge.

My husband comes to the sessions when he can, but most of the time he can't due to his job which takes him out of town for several days, on an unpredictable schedule.

So far the counselor says that he does not suggest or approve of a divorce in our case because because he sees my husband is beginning to dig into his issues and is trying to deal with them. He tells me to give him time, because he lived with his unhealthy perspectives and coping skills all his life (he is 55 years old) and it will take time for him to change. He believes that when he gets a job that will allow him to be home at night, and when he can come to regular counseling sessions with me, things will improve more quickly. The counselor does agree with divorce whenever there is ongoing infidelity, abuse or abandonment. He does not believe Christians are obligated or should stay in marriages where those three things are going on and there is no willingness or movement toward changing those behaviors.

At one point I had given up, and was wanting a divorce, and my husband asked me not to, but to give him time, he said, "I am changing. I won't ever cheat or do porn again, and I'm learning to not do the things I used to do. Mostly he used independent action and secrecy, stonewalling and eventually the adultery, porn and making independent financial decisions which have put us in debt, used up savings, sometimes without my knowledge or consent.

My husband has been cycling for years, pulling me toward him, telling me he is changing and wants to be in the marriage, and then he says he is a failure, and wants to give up. He recently began the tactic of accusing me and our counselor of inappropriate sexual talk.

A few months ago, he was very down, having a pity party, and he told me that he was a failure. He said he was a failure in marriage, a failure in finances, a failure professionally, and a failure in bed. I was stunned by all of it, because he was improving in the first three, and he was never a failure in bed, in my opinion. He said was a failure in bed because he occasionally has premature ejaculation.

I was so disturbed by what he said, and how low he had gotten emotionally that I spoke with the counselor about it, including his saying he was a failure in bed. It has not been a problem in my opinion, and we have worked around it when it has happened. The counselor's response was that he was manipulating me and having a pity party in general, and that all men have premature ejaculation from time to time. That was the extent of the conversation about the PE. We did not go into detail about it.

I always tell my husband what we speak about in counseling when he is not present, for transparency. When he heard that I told the counselor about what he said about PE, and that the counselor said all men have it from time to time, he became very upset. He said I had betrayed him and in addition the counselor and I had been inappropriate.

I was very offended by his accusation, because I only brought it up as one of the topics he had said he was a failure in, because I was shocked and hurt that he thought our bedroom experience was so terrible, when to me we were fine in the bedroom.

My husband set a boundary for me an the counselor to never speak of sexual issues again unless he is in the room, and the counselor and I agreed to it, because we both agreed that we should never speak of graphic sexual issues, since he is a man, and I am a woman. Both the counselor and I believed we had not spoken inappropriately previously, and we definitely were not going to do it in the future either.

Very general sexual topics have come up, not pertaining to my husband, and which are not the focus of the conversation but are side bars to other issues, and I have shared them with my husband for transparency. They have never been inappropriate or compromising to him, and I felt I was respecting his privacy and boundary.

He is threatened by many things the counselor says, to him and to me, and he feels that I have an emotional bond with the counselor, and tonight he says that he wants a divorce because he believes I am not honoring my promise.

I feel that he keeps moving the bar, and wants to control my counseling sessions and for me to not get the help I need when I need it. He can't come to the meetings for 5 or more weeks at a time, and things come up, and he doesn't want me to talk about them until he can be there. So much comes up with him, he is cycling up and down, and it gets me very off balanced and upset, and I need to talk.

I spoke with the counselor that my daughter is pushing to wear more revealing clothes than I am comfortable with. He told me to explain to her that she wants to attract men who are attracted to her mind and heart, not her body. If she is modest in her dress (we're not talking burkas here, or even dresses to the floor, just not shorty shorts, and really tight shirts) that she will attract a man who is attracted to her mind. If they get married and grow old together, they will still be in love because they were in love with each other's minds, and the fact that their bodies are not young anymore won't matter so much. That is a sexual topic, IMO, but not inappropriate. My husband was not home when the struggle with the daughter came up (again) and I couldn't talk with him about it, but I could talk with the counselor that week.

Husband later said that was OK, but I never know, yet I need to talk about some things as they come up and I take a chance hen the issue is fresh. Husband wants me to wait 5 or more weeks to talk about things, but I never know which ones. He is not clear, and I do believe his rules are arbitrary, and many times not fair or appropriate to Western culture and life.

He has now said that he wants a divorce. I feel his rules keep changing and are not realistic, or reasonable, within the bounds of ethical counselling rules.

He has asked me to get a female counselor, but there is none who will see me for free. I would see one, but we do not have insurance. In addition, I believe the counselor we have is excellent because he is man and understands how men think. The counselor has been firm with me and with my husband at times, and my husband gets upset with him when he confronts him. I believe my husband is threatened by him as a man, because is is firm, and confident. Husband does not like to be confronted, and he does not like another man agreeing with me, or disagreeing with him.

I feel like I am being mentally and emotionally abused and abandoned, and that my husband is using the false accusations of me and the counselor being sexual inappropriate as a power play to blame me, take off the pressure from himself, and to isolate me.

We have 3 children still living at home. One starts college this fall, the other two I homeschool. I am such a mess by the constant cycle of "push-pull" and the nasty tactics he uses to push me away and try to make me look like the bad one by his made up accusations.

On one hand I feel that if he continues this way, I would be better off being divorced and living alone, so I don't have to live in the cycle. However at 56, and with 3 children still living at home, homeschooling, our children's lives will not be better.

My husband consulted with two other christian men, not counselors, telling them generalities, like "My wife is talking about sexual matters with her male counselor when I am out of town. They are alone in the room together. Do you believe that is appropriate? They have agreed with him, not knowing the context. He feels bolstered by that.

I feel like what he is doing is similar to a muslim husband accusing his wife of being unchaste because she went shopping without a male escort. Then the man tells another man, and he agrees. Their standard is extreme not fair to the woman, and is not true. She needed to go shopping, there was no male available to walk with her, and she did not flirt with anyone.

The other issue is that when I have seen female counselors, he discounted them because the were women. Our counselor holds his feet to the fire. He also doesn't let me get away with anything. He has given a lot of good advice and shed a lot of light on the dynamics of our marriage as it is, and as it has been for the past 26 years.

The counselor was very insulted by my husband's accusations, because it was an attack on him as a pastor and as a professional, and should have refused to continue seeing him, but he didn't. He has forgiven my husband and realizes he is very insecure, and floundering as he is trying to figure out why he has been the way he has been and change. My husband doesn't realize that the counselor is on his side, and wants to see our marriage survive.

I am tired of the constant cycling, and of not feeling peace. The first day he is home is stressful, the middle day is oK, and the last day is stressful because he is focused on getting ready to leave again. The first day he is gone I go into a deep depression. I get better, and then the cycle starts over. There is no end in sight until he gets a different job, and he doesn't have time to look for many jobs when he is home because he has so much else to do during the three days he is home.

I'm also tired of having my character attacked, when I have been faithful, I don't have male friends, my counselor is not my friend, and I am not attracted to him at all, we only speak in our sessions, and it is all business. He has never been inappropriate with me in speech or action, he is happily married. He was so disturbed by my husband's accusations against him, that he talked with his wife about what we spoke about, and she agreed that we had not spoken outside the bounds of ethical counseling guidelines, as well as pastoral advice. There are NO secrets, and the only one who is threatened is my husband.

Please help me. Should I be relieved he wants a divorce, or should I stop seeing the counselor, and risk not finding another female counselor who can see me for free or for a minimal charge.

I don't know what I will do if I can't find a female counselor. Life with my husband is lonely when he is gone and sometimes unbearable when he is home due to his mood swings, and with three teenage daughters and homeschooling my stress in intense. I need someone to talk with to help me with perspective and possible solutions to problems that come up. I could end up isolated and with no support. (I have friends, but the things that go on because of my husband's insecurities, manipulation, job, etc. are too constant and a would be too much to regularly lay on a friend.)

Last edited by GettingWiser; 08/11/16 03:14 AM.
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Hello Gettingwiser, welcome to Marriage Builders. Did you have a question for us about Marriage Builders?

If you do, please shorten your post to about 3 paragraphs so folks can understand your situation. If the post is too long, most folks won't have time to read it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I don't see the edit button to shorten it.

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The counselor notified me today that he is not going to see me or my husband anymore, because it is the second time my husband has falsely accused him (and me.) He said he doesn't need that in his life.

He also texted my husband and said that he is considering filing a case for defamation of character (all our sessions are videotaped, so he can defend himself) and if my husband does not apologize before he meets with his lawyer (he gave him the time and the date) he will file the case.

I don't believe he will, although he should. He cares about our family (children and I) and I don't believe he will do anything to cause us financial harm. He knows we do not have excess money to go to court, and that taking my husband to court would hurt our family more than it would hurt my husband.

I checked my husband's phone (he has all his calls recorded on his phone) and he spent the afternoon calling lawyers to see if he could be sued....he did not give the details of what he said. All the lawyers said they could not take the case until he actually was served.

It is disappointing that rather than realize he was wrong and apologize to the counselor and I, he is more concerned with himself.

He can say all kinds of things to his wife (me) and my only choices are to take it, or to divorce him so I don't have to go through that anymore.

I'm glad the counselor knows his rights and won't take it.

ETA: I would edit my first post, but I edited a couple of times for grammar when I wrote it, and there is no longer an edit button. Are we only allowed to edit a limited number of times on Marriage Builders?

Last edited by GettingWiser; 08/12/16 12:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by GettingWiser
The counselor notified me today that he is not going to see me or my husband anymore, because it is the second time my husband has falsely accused him (and me.) He said he doesn't need that in his life.

He also texted my husband and said that he is considering filing a case for defamation of character (all our sessions are videotaped, so he can defend himself) and if my husband does not apologize before he meets with his lawyer (he gave him the time and the date) he will file the case.

I don't believe he will, although he should. He cares about our family (children and I) and I don't believe he will do anything to cause us financial harm. He knows we do not have excess money to go to court, and that taking my husband to court would hurt our family more than it would hurt my husband.

I checked my husband's phone (he has all his calls recorded on his phone) and he spent the afternoon calling lawyers to see if he could be sued....he did not give the details of what he said. All the lawyers said they could not take the case until he actually was served.

It is disappointing that rather than realize he was wrong and apologize to the counselor and I, he is more concerned with himself.

He can say all kinds of things to his wife (me) and my only choices are to take it, or to divorce him so I don't have to go through that anymore.

I'm glad the counselor knows his rights and won't take it.

ETA: I would edit my first post, but I edited a couple of times for grammar when I wrote it, and there is no longer an edit button. Are we only allowed to edit a limited number of times on Marriage Builders?

Hi Getting Wiser.... welcome to Marriage Builders.

They only allow edits for one hour. After that it closes down. (No personal messages either) Another new post like this works just fine.

You have more than two options of taking it or divorce.
What have you read of DR. Harley? Just the articles online, books?

Is your husband still claiming he wants a divorce?

What kind of spyware do you have on him so you know that he isn't in an affair now or using porn etc? What is his accountability?

Its late, so in the morning you will have a lot more people answering you.
It is a forum for help with Dr. H principles and not a place to just blog so be prepared for questions!
We ask because we care and none of us can give our personal advice, it has to be advice that Dr. Harley would agree with.

We all do this as he has helped so many thousands and our own lives.

I am sorry you find yourself in this place....


BW-3 Kids
Sep:2014
Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
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Getting wiser, did you have a question for us about Marriage Builders?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I have listened to Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs. I have come here for other people's input on my circumstances.

I read the books and understand them.

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Originally Posted by GettingWiser
I have listened to Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs. I have come here for other people's input on my circumstances.

I read the books and understand them.

Thanks. Just let me know the question and we can address.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Is pornography counted as infidelity?

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Hi, Anderson, welcome to Marriage Builders. Please start your own thread so answers to you don't clutter up this poster's thread.

Steve Harley has an article here on Marriage Builders that addresses this question: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8501_fft.html

In short, if your spouse considers it to be infidelity, it is. My wife certainly considers pornography to be infidelity, and she was devastated a few years back when I revealed that I had used pornography earlier in our marriage. Porn use certainly caused her a lot of pain, and marriage has to be about providing extraordinary care for each other, which rules out doing anything that causes pain for the other, whether you consider it infidelity or not.

Anderson, has pornography been an issue in your marriage?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.

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