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My wife and I married for 17 years. Me 44 and WW is 39 y.o. We have a 14 years old son. I am unemployed since June.

I am not sure at which stage our marriage is at. Are we recovering from infidelity or are we passed from resentment to negotiation stage. We can be even in intimacy or false recovery state. I am very confused about what to do next. Please help. If I am posting to wrong forum please excuse me.

Here is a summary about our regular life: We both work for long hours and traffic is very terrible in our city. My wife has a very stressful job. We both usually drive 1.5 - 2 hours to go to work (we live in Istanbul). As a result we have very little time for conversation. Not more than 1 hour for each 5 working days. We weren't very happy but I thought we were ok. Repeatedly I was complaining about the lack of time that we spend together and I said I don't like her to spend most of time on her smartphone. She is spending her free time in social media and goes out with her girl friends at the weekends. We argued too many times about my concerns and she blamed me for not giving her space. I know her group. 4 girls and all single! 3 of them are divorced and one is lesbian. After many discussions at least I convinced her to spend Friday evenings at home together. And I told her I don't like her to spend the all night with her friends when we don't feel intimacy for eachother. No need to mention lack of SF as a result.

After loosing my job I found time to think about how can we do better. We had sent our son to his grandmother for summer. I told my wife that it is a very good opportunity for us to spend more time together, talk and have fun and make things better. But she consistently said that she needs time to think if she want me anymore and asked me to go to my mothers summer house until she will join us on 09th of September. She has severe AO problem. But I wasn't always able to control my self when she attacked me physically. I easily calm down and forgive her. But my problem is much more serious because I had hit her three times in the first years of our marriage and she couldn't forget and forgive me since. I read articles and thought a lot on anger management and I am sure that we won't have similar incidents again. When we have arguments I can control myself since many years (may be 10). I thought that we were completely recovered but once in a while I raise my voice during argument and she reminds me the past incidents and threatens me with divorce. I have nothing to say to her because what I had done was unacceptable. All I could do is try convince that it is not possible for me to hurt her physically any more. I tried to negotiate but she looked so resentful recent days so I agreed to go to summer house. I searched articles in internet and then I came across MB web site. I have made a plan to pull her back to intimacy state. I have hid an audio streamer into the kitchen where we usually spend most of our time. Then I went to mother's summer house (700km away) and started listening the home remotely. On the very first evening her "best" friend (divorced) from the group came and they started to drink and talk about friends affair. And then the turn has come to our marriage. While listening I have found that my wife has an EA with a guy on instagram and her friend and sister knows and approves this relationship. I was devastated. I continued to listen if there is an evidence of PA. She cried "I love him" once - may be with the effect of alcohol- but I couldn't find any evidence of PA. My first thought was that she had sent me to summer house so she would be able to meet OM. I was upset and very angry.... I tried to calm down for hours. After reading MB site I have decided that it was my fault. I had neglected her ENs for a long time in the past. and if I want to be happy with her I have to be honest about spying on her and in order to prevent the affair going any further ...I called her. I told her that I have heard every thing they spoke and that I was devastated. I was waiting for an apology but she got very angry for what I did. She said it is nothing serious and she had never met him in the real world. I wish I had read the infidelity subject on MB before the that night. She promissed not to contact him again. I wrote him via instagram DM not to contact my wife ever again. at first he blocked me and then deleted his account. Me and wife both cried all night on the phone. I tried to learn how far it has gone. She told me that they had started 1 or 2 months before and it is limitted to instagram chat. I wasn't aware of the necessity of exposure. I was away from her and I asked her to delete her account and everything related to him. Now I see that might be a big mistake but I had thought that removing any reminders was best thing to do then. So I have no evidence of the EA.

During the next week we both calmed down and she told me that she loves me but she was still not sure if she want to stay married with me ... and she assured that this has nothing to do with the OM. I am convinced (stupid?). I know that I didn't do right things about her infidelity but I think it is too late now. Months before we had planned a three days vacation to a greek island with two couples. We had an amazing vacation. Maximum intimacy, affection and SF. It was really great. I told her about the MB site and she pissed of again. She blamed me for not understanding her EN before and she didn't find my efforts sincere. Any way, she agreed on POJA (with remarks) and PORH. I asked her if she wanted me at home. She said she need more time alone and would feel better if I stay in the summer house till Septemer 9 as agreed before. She assured me OM is not an issue anymore and if I am too bored alone I could come to home but she is so pissed of that I had spyed on her, she would prefer that I stay in the summer house. I convinced myself that their affair is all over and she would miss me.
Now I am at the summer house in Izmir and she is in Istanbul. After the perfect vacation nearly everything seems ok. She still sometimes says she is pissed off about my spying on her but I tell her that I want 100% transparency and honesty and she agrees that.

Here are my questions:
[1] I didn't do proper things about her infidelity. and I am afraid it is too late to convince her to follow MB way. Should I expect the best and be alert about the infidelity? Or should I create a plan to resolve conflicts and restore love to our marriage?
[2] At this point should I expose infidelity? I don't want to hurt her and I believe she won't contact him again. I have forgiven her.
[3!!!] I am 99% sure that affair is over but should I spy on her secretly? Or should I tell her that she should give all her passwords to me and give full access to her phone? Both looks very risky to me. This question is urgent because she will come here two days later on 09 September. And I still not sure what to do.

NOTES: Many of the couples which I know personally near our ages are divorced or at least thinking divorce seriousy. I wish they had access to a MB like site. I want to help in translating eng->tur MB web site or the books if there is such a motivation on your side. (I am much better at translating eng->tur ;-) Thanks for maintaining such a helpful site and I wish it is not too late for me.


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First, you need to return home to your wife. Being away from her overnights like this is giving her a green light for her affair. It also shows her that you don't care much about her, to find out she is having an affair and not even bother coming home to fight for her. Finally, how are you possibly going to meet her EN's if you are far away? Go home.

Second, you absolutely 100% should be secretly monitoring her. You are disregarding the addictive nature of an affair, even an online EA. You heard her say she loved him. Clearly she is emotionally invested and addicted. She cannot be trusted right now.

Do some research on Instagram guy. Does he have a Facebook page or any other social media? Can you find out if he is married?

As long as she is in an affair, you cannot resolve conflicts and restore love to your marriage. You need to kill the affair first.

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Dear unwritten,
First, I totally agree with you after reading MB articles. I wish I hadn't regard what my wife told. I should have returned home immediately. But it is too late. She's coming here on Saturday evening. And after that we will be at home whole winter smile

Second, although I want to be honest with her, I will apply your suggestion. I believe you have witnessed many cases like this.

I searched all over the internet for two days. I only could find his Instagram account. WW told me that he is also married. I said I want to inform his wife about the affair. But couldn't find any link.
Since I don't have any evidence what do you think about exposure? Should do it?


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All I want is someone to say: "hey stupid. Stop disregarding her. Go home, love your woman and everything will be OK. We are dealing much more serious problems here. And yours is not so challenging. You'll handle it yourself". Please someone say so.

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Originally Posted by Armagan
All I want is someone to say: "hey stupid. Stop disregarding her. Go home, love your woman and everything will be OK. We are dealing much more serious problems here. And yours is not so challenging. You'll handle it yourself". Please someone say so.

Nobody is going to say that here. You 'loving your woman' is not going to make an affair go away. There is no problem more serious in a marriage than an affair.

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Originally Posted by Armagan
I searched all over the internet for two days. I only could find his Instagram account. WW told me that he is also married. I said I want to inform his wife about the affair. But couldn't find any link.
Since I don't have any evidence what do you think about exposure? Should do it?

Keep searching. It is possible he is just some catfish with a made up instagram account. But keep searching until you have exhausted all your resources.

Dr Harley says that you should have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt before exposing an affair. I would set up more snooping techniques and if further evidence is gained, secretly store it for an exposure. What is your plan for snooping?

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Originally Posted by Armagan
Dear unwritten,
First, I totally agree with you after reading MB articles. I wish I hadn't regard what my wife told. I should have returned home immediately. But it is too late. She's coming here on Saturday evening. And after that we will be at home whole winter smile

Have you read anything about Plan A? Plan A is basically wooing your wife back into the marriage, presenting yourself as the best option to her AP (this done while simultaneously fighting the affair). Fill her needs, avoid all lovebusters, present yourself in the best light possible. It sounds like you have neglected her for quite some time. What are your plans to change that?

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I know that very well ;.-(
It is good to know that someone is hearing me. Thank you very much.

About 1.5 hours ago she told me that she's just arrived at home. I was cooking at that moment. After the dinner I phoned her how she's doing. She was at her best friends house. She told me that her friend was sick and she wanted to visit her for 5 minutes. I told her I am curious about her and it would be better if she told me that she would visit her friend. It has passed 1.5 hours after she said that she arrived at home. I have mentioned about that. She blamed me for being paranoid about it and said that she was walking our dog before she visited her friend. And we argued about it. frown
One moment everything seems so perfect and just after five minutes every thing is so fragile. I am the most patient and strong person I have ever known. At least I belived so until today. But this is the most difficult times I have ever had.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
Originally Posted by Armagan
Dear unwritten,
First, I totally agree with you after reading MB articles. I wish I hadn't regard what my wife told. I should have returned home immediately. But it is too late. She's coming here on Saturday evening. And after that we will be at home whole winter smile

Have you read anything about Plan A? Plan A is basically wooing your wife back into the marriage, presenting yourself as the best option to her AP (this done while simultaneously fighting the affair). Fill her needs, avoid all lovebusters, present yourself in the best light possible. It sounds like you have neglected her for quite some time. What are your plans to change that?

Yes I have read all the articles and letters in the MB web site. My plan is to apply plan A. With the exception that I don't feel ok about exposing her infidelity. I totally agree that my ignorance is the reason for her betrayal. I forgive her for that. But this doesn't m mean that I approve what she did. She ruined my world,my honor, my tinny fragile self confidence. She called me a few minutes ago and apologized for not informing me about her visit. But it sounded more like she was angry about she felt like I am questioning her.

PS. My call was a video call. She was indeed in her friends house. Her friend was in her bed. And her ex-husband were also there for support.

Last edited by Armagan; 09/07/16 04:00 PM.
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You need to move back home immediately and make sure you completely eliminate anger from your life. Don't raise your voice during arguments. Don't argue! No more anger.

Emotional affairs are as damaging to marriage as a physical affair. Here's a list of how to survive an affair the right way from Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, Surviving an Affair
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.





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The Harleys often say that there are reasons for affairs but there are no excuses. Infidelity is one of the worst things one spouse can to do the other, because it causes so much pain in the betrayed spouse. Marriage Builders does not advocate forgiveness, but rather Just Compensation. Forgiveness means the person owes nothing to you, that the slate is wiped clean. But the unfaithful spouse can actually DO something to make things better - she can participate in a program of marital recovery and help make the marriage better than it ever was in the past.

Although exposure may seem counterproductive, it is actually very helpful for several reasons. First, it will help make your wife accountable to those around her. Sure, there are some who won't care or who even encourage infidelity, but those are people you don't need in your recovered marriage. Second, you will gain some much needed emotional support throughout what will likely turn out to be the most painful experience of your life.


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Thank you for your response longwayfromhome,
Stupid of me... I have been waiting for four weeks for her to come. Harm has already been done. I think waiting two days more will change nothing. At last I'll reunite her soon.

I'll surely do and enforce her to do every thing on the list.

Am I too optimistic to think that every thing will be OK?

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Originally Posted by Armagan
Yes I have read all the articles and letters in the MB web site. My plan is to apply plan A. With the exception that I don't feel ok about exposing her infidelity.

We don't feel it is ok to skip vital steps. Do you want to save your marriage or not? Because your greatest weapon is exposure. You can't say you want to get well and then refuse to take the medicine. That makes no sense.

Quote
I totally agree that my ignorance is the reason for her betrayal. I forgive her for that.

Inappropriate, fake "forgiveness" is not ineffective. What is called for her just compensation to you. The reason she had an affair is because she has poor boundaries around men and was probably trolling for action. If she had not done that, she wouldn't have had an affair.

Quote
She ruined my world,my honor, my tinny fragile self confidence. She called me a few minutes ago and apologized for not informing me about her visit. But it sounded more like she was angry about she felt like I am questioning her.

You really need to go home and just surprise her. Stop acting suspicious and start working on getting the evidence.

Your wife is having an affair, it will be easy to get the evidence and expose the affair. That is your only chance at recovery. Keeping the affair a secret will only fuel the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only helps the affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have been writing for the last 15 minutes. But some how stupid phone lost them all. I have been waiting waiting for four weeks (stupidly) for her to come. The has already been done. Waiting two more days will change nothing. She'll be with me on Saturday. I will do everything Saa suggests. And encourage her to comply. Am I too optimistic?

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Originally Posted by Armagan
Thank you for your response longwayfromhome,
Stupid of me... I have been waiting for four weeks for her to come. Harm has already been done. I think waiting two days more will change nothing. At last I'll reunite her soon.

Why would you wait one more day? I don't understand, did you leave home or did she?

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I'll surely do and enforce her to do every thing on the list.

Don't show her the list. First get the evidence of her affair and expose the affair.

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Am I too optimistic to think that every thing will be OK?

If you won't expose and follow the steps of this program, I would call this hopeless. Your wifes affair has been going on for a long time and is very entrenched. You have a slim chance IF you will follow these steps.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Armagan
Waiting two more days will change nothing.

Why are you waiting?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Am I too optimistic to think that every thing will be OK?

Marital recovery is a narrow road and takes both spouses all in to create a wonderful, safe and romantic marriage that is better than before. While it's great to be optimistic and hopeful, don't take any shortcuts or skip steps.





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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Armagan
Yes I have read all the articles and letters in the MB web site. My plan is to apply plan A. With the exception that I don't feel ok about exposing her infidelity.

We don't feel it is ok to skip vital steps. Do you want to save your marriage or not? Because your greatest weapon is exposure. You can't say you want to get well and then refuse to take the medicine. That makes no sense.

Quote
I totally agree that my ignorance is the reason for her betrayal. I forgive her for that.

Inappropriate, fake "forgiveness" is not ineffective. What is called for her just compensation to you. The reason she had an affair is because she has poor boundaries around men and was probably trolling for action. If she had not done that, she wouldn't have had an affair.

Quote
She ruined my world,my honor, my tinny fragile self confidence. She called me a few minutes ago and apologized for not informing me about her visit. But it sounded more like she was angry about she felt like I am questioning her.

You really need to go home and just surprise her. Stop acting suspicious and start working on getting the evidence.

Your wife is having an affair, it will be easy to get the evidence and expose the affair. That is your only chance at recovery. Keeping the affair a secret will only fuel the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only helps the affair.

Thank you melodylane. You remind me my dentist frown That medicine will hurt me and wife very much. But I trust your experience. That's why I go to dentist. It will be painful but is necessary to heal. I know the value of a good dentist. And I find your suggestion very valuable. And I am also aware that MB suggest that I expose infidelity without her knowledge. That's very hard for me. I have to explain it to myself.

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Originally Posted by Armagan
[

Thank you melodylane. You remind me my dentist frown That medicine will hurt me and wife very much. But I trust your experience. That's why I go to dentist. It will be painful but is necessary to heal. I know the value of a good dentist. And I find your suggestion very valuable. And I am also aware that MB suggest that I expose infidelity without her knowledge. That's very hard for me. I have to explain it to myself.

You got it! Exposure is therapeutic to your wife and your marriage. Just look at it like that. Every recovered marriage on this forum attributes it to exposure. But first, you have to go home and get the evidence of the affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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But what if she really ended the affair? What if I can't find any evidence that it's been continuing? Wouldn't it be very bad to expose a past affair? I really don't want to insult my wife for nothing. It is so painful for me. I am crying at the moment.

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