Sorry for the long post in advance! Myself 30M and Wife 30F have been together since we were 18; married for 3 years. About a month ago she said she has been miserable since we've been married. As soon as we got married I started a new job and we had to move away from our families, and our support systems. I got pretty consumed with work as it is a high stress job. We don't go out ever, we never have date nights, we just focus on saving as much money as we can...and we have become a great team at this. Well of course I have seen that I may not have put my marriage first so I vowed to make that happen at all costs. I have set up a counselor starting next week, and asked her to go to counseling with me. She refused and says she's not sure she wants to work on it anymore as she feels like she has tried to work on it all this time. I obviously feel heartbroken. Well, along this same timeframe I find out she has a new male friend at work that she is texting ALL DAY. This obviously doesn't seem right to me, but I just tried to keep trusting her. Well, I decided to do a little more investigating. I added the guys contact info to my phone so i could see his status in the messaging app. So every time he and her were online at the same time, I would walk near her...She would immediately switch out of the app into another app or to the home screen and make some awkward casual statement (What's the weather app you use or What was the name of that thing). Also, she asked the guy to get the app, so I assume she is the only one he talks to on there and his profile picture is a selfie of him posing shirtless in the gym. I'm even more heartbroken now at this point. She admits to deleting messages from him. She texts him all day and a lot at night. Last night, I saw she was texting him, so I said to her "You talking to your buddy?"; to which she replied "no, talking to my sister"(she was talking to her sister as well). So she straight up lied to me, and showed no signs of remorse. She has been so distant and secretive. Now I know a lot of people are going to say she is having sex with him, and right now I don't think that is true because she hasn't had the time. I do think that it is heading that way though. Now this brings me back to the "being miserable for 3 years thing": I decided to go find all of our cards to each other for the last 3 years worth of Anniversaries/valentines/bithdays. Every single card is riddled with positives about the relationship and how well it is going and how proud she is of us. I showed her the cards and poured my heart out to her, and it seemed that she was at least understanding. 2 weeks ago she tells me she has been thinking about getting an apartment, and that maybe some separation will help. I of course tell her that we need counseling and that separation will not help our marriage...to no avail. Now I am stuck wondering how the hell to keep moving forward, or what to do. I am just lost. I can't continue to let her walk all over me and lie and be deceptive. But I also don't want to tell her to leave because that just gives her more opportunity to pursue this other guy. She says that when/if we separate it would be a temporary/healing separation and we would still see each other often and date. I just don't know how I feel about this. Obviously the hopeful side of me says "yeh, that would show her what she is missing"; but the other side of me thinks that its just a ploy to go [censored] this other guy and get out of our marriage. Am I looking at a case of Grass is Greener Syndrome? I desperately want my wife back committed to our relationship!

Hello lost, welcome to Marriage Builders. It is obvious your wife is having an affair and has fallen in love with this man. She shows all the classic signs of an affair, such as rewriting history. She says she has been unhappy for "years" despite obvious evidence to the contrary. She believes this because she has a new point of comparison. It is like someone who becomes addicted to heroin, suddenly they view life through a new prism and history without heroin pales in comparison to the new high.

The solution is to get solid evidence of the affair, expose the affair and run the OM off. Put spyware on her phone and get the evidence. Stop accusing her and gather evidence. Find out who the OM from facebook, etc and prepare to expose the affair to his family and friends. Go read my exposure 101 thread and start strategizing.

You need to avoid "counseling" at all cost because it will ruin your chances of saving your marriage. Marriage counselors have no earthly idea how to save a marriage and wil only validate your wife's marriage wrecking ideas. You are more likely to find yourself divorced if you take that path. There is no reason your marriage cannot be saved and we can show you a plan that will give you the best shot.

The only reason she wants to separate is so she can pursue her affair. That will not help your marriage so don't go along with it.

lostaf, Welcome to Marriage Builders. So sorry for the things that have brought you here.

I'm sorry to say your W is having an affair. If you wish to save your M then you need to follow a very rigid plan. Fortunately you've come to the exact place you need in order to save it.

Please ask the moderators to move your thread to the Surviving an Affair section of this forum. [Edited: I see it was moved already]. Meanwhile the fabulous veterans, that know how to best save marriages where infidelity is present, will be along here shortly. They will give you step by step instructions of what you need to do to save this. Please, PLEASE do exactly as they instruct.

Read up everything on this website. Do nothing until you have the plan that will be laid out for you by these great people.

Right now your W is having an emotional affair. However it is very likely it has turned physical. Regardless emotional or physical they are both just as damaging and the course of action is the same.

Oh and there you go. Melody has responded already. There is no greater resource on this site than Melody for helping you fix this.

You're in good hands. Listen closely to what she has to say.

Thanks so much for your quick response. I have no way to put spyware on her phone. She has it with her at all times. Also, she would probably be able to tell. Our of curiosity, what software would you recommend if I were able to?

Another way to get intel is to put a voice activated recorder in a place where she speaks to the OM. But you might be able to get into her phone with some of the programs mentioned in this thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2832187#Post2832187

Another good spyware program is webwatcher. Can you get her phone while she is sleeping?

No, she sleeps with it on or under her pillow. Takes it with her to the bathroom. Carries it around the house. I don't have access to it ever! Plus if I installed something, it will show up in the applications manager (Android) and she is more than intelligent enough to be checking there. I have circumstantial evidence in that i can see when her and the guy are online at the same times on WhatsApp, and I have kept a log for a few days.

Spyware does not show up in the app manager, though. Circumstantial evidence is not evidence of an affair. You need actual evidence so you have to figure out a way to get her phone.

Who is this guy? What do you know about him?

I installed Dr. Fone on my phone to test it out, and I was easily able to see it in the application manager. That is where you would go if you wanted to uninstall it.

It is actually her boss. I know he is single, in good physical shape, intelligent, makes decent money, has obviously won my wife's affection, and is absolutely destroying me.

In some ways I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to just let her move out and see how hard life is without me. But i know this just presents more time for her to nurture her affair. This is where I am really torn. If I could just know the truth I think I would feel so much better. I am starting to understand the reality that I may be moving on without her in the not so distant future, and it is truly a scary thing. She has been my support, backbone, and world my entire life....oh and she is smoking hot and the sex is awesome...even though it's been a while.

In EVERY WAY that is a bad idea that just makes it harder to save your marriage.


Do you want to try and save your marriage? If so, you need to get to work and get solid evidence. We will help you with next steps. Does she work for a corporation?

I absolutely want to save my marriage. She does work for a small division of a large corporation.

You have the OM by the balls. All it will take to wreck this little affair is evidence. So I would focus 1000% of your efforts on being like James Bond and getting the evidence. We will then help you expose the affair in a very strategic manner. You do understand that your wife can't continue to work there and save your marriage, right? The goal will be to get them fired or have her quit.

Hide a VAR in WW's car and one in the house where WW takes most of her phone calls.

Well, I haven't forgotten about you guys, but I have been unable to obtain any proof so far. I just can not get to her phone for anything more than MAYBE 5 seconds. So I am really just screwed on this. I am really at a point that I don't think I am willing to live with this much longer. I think it's almost time to drop the bomb on her now and ask her to start discussing division of assets.

Don't let your emotions get the best of you even though it's tough.

You should never discuss the divorce...an attorney handles that.

What about the VAR? If you don't have the basic facts then how can you make a solid plan?

lostaf, you need to work harder to get the truth. Don't make any decisions until you have the full truth.

Well...I found mom's address and she is there right now..what do I do? Help quick!

Om's

Well, I confronted. It was very casual. Just knocked, OM came to door. Told him I would like to speak to my wife. He asked her to come out. I said "I'll see you at MY house." I turned around, got in my truck and drove off!

What happened after that?

So far nothing...still hasn't come home. I am working on a division of assets spreadsheet now.

You should put that aside and expose the affair. You can divide assets LATER.

I'm puzzled about what you were hoping to achieve by turning away and driving off, leaving them together.

Don't need to achieve anything. I am done with the relationship. Simple as that

If you want to do that, then there really isn't much for us to help you with. But if you have second thoughts, there is much you can do to fight for your marriage.

I have to say, those of us who did fight for our marriages did so because we valued our wayward spouses too much to just give up.

If you have kids and don't want them spending the night at OM's house (he might be a predator too, after all), then I would really get busy exposing the affair far and wide.

If you want the best recovery you can possibly get alone, then I would expose the affair, see a lawyer and arrange a quick divorce, and never see or talk to your wife again.

If you want your marriage to recover, then I would expose the affair and start reading up on Dr. Harley's Plan A.

I am going to work on your second option starting tomorrow. I truly appreciate the advice. If I have a change of heart I will come back here.

I hope you realize now that there is no escaping from doing an exposure.

What do you mean there's no escaping doing an exposure?

What he means is that every option markos presented to you, including divorce and personal recovery, includes exposure. Exposure should be done whether you decide to try and save the marriage or not, for a host of reasons.

Are you going to expose the affair?

To be quite honest I am not sure. I'm so overwhelmed right now I don't think I can even make simple decisions...much less an important one.

What are you not sure about?

This is the beauty of following Dr Harley's plan. You don't NEED to make decisions. Dr Harley has been working with infidelity for over 40 years and he has created a plan that works. It works to give you the best chance for marital recovery or personal recovery, whichever route you go. BUT no matter which way you decide to go, exposure is a part of it. So really there is nothing for you to decide on here.

I can't understand why you would not want to expose.

If you choose to divorce, do you not want your friends and family to know why? Do you want to give her the opportunity to spin the story about how horrible you are, or do you want people to know the truth about why your marriage failed? Do you want to live the rest of your life telling people you are divorced, but keeping her infidelity a secret?

If you choose to stay married, you cannot recover without exposure. You need support and she needs people to hold her accountable. Exposure is the only way to do that.

And for goodness sake, the OM does NOT need to be protected, why would you want to do that? Whether you divorce or stay together, you should rain down on his fantasy parade with your wife.

You are acting very weak here. Being a weak man is not at all attractive. You are showing your wife that you really don't care and are just going to crawl under a rock. Is that the kind of man you want to be right now?

Obviously I was super angry yesterday and made my comments in haste. Unfortunately, now I am back to reality. I have no darn clue what I want. I just don't know how the heck to get myself motivated to do ANYTHING. I can't stop consuming myself with what is going on. I went to the gym last night, hoping that would help...unfortunately all I did was think about the situation and watch time go by as I "worked out". I just can't get out of the fog that I am in.

She went out yesterday and looked at some apartments. She said she will be going on her lunch break today to sign a lease. As upset at her as I was the other day, I am dreading watching her walk out that door. I am absolutely devastated by the thought of her not being at our house....

So what's the plan? Do you want to take control or just sit back and watch how things go?

We can help you with a plan that will give you options. You can take steps to save your marriage but can change your mind at any time.

The first steps are to expose the affair. Do this TODAY. Go read my exposure 101 thread and come back with a plan. You should also be as attractive as possible, tell her you want to have a passionate marriage with her, but she must first end her affair.

Regardless of what you decide, you need to expose the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure will hasten its death. That benefits you either way.

This is very interesting. I am on 2 different forums, this one advocates exposure, the other is against exposure. I suppose I just feel like I am completely unsure of which direction to go. I do know now that I have major codependency issues, and have reached out to a couple counselors today for that. Hopefully one of them can get me in quickly!

The advice we give to expose comes from Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. He has specialized in saving marriages from infidelity for 45 years. He is the author of Survving an Affair.

NOT exposing the affair makes it much less likely you will save your marriage because keeping it a secret enables the affair.

So I feel that I am near my breaking point. She is still texting this guy all the time. Everyone here says to expose. My question is: Is exposing really the right thing to do when our marriage was pretty bad due to my neglecting her for a couple years before her affair started?

YES.

YES!!

In case this doesn't go well for me I am thinking I will get our finances legally separated while she is in the amicable mood. Would you all agree?

NO! We would tell you to do this if we thought it was necessary. WE are pretty thorough and have done this one or two times.

Wold you mind giving me an explanation as to why you feel it isn't necessary? Currently she is content taking half of our joint checking/saving accounts and leaving the house equity, and all retirement accounts alone. If she wants she could easily push for half of the house equity, and all retirement accounts.

Please don't think I am disagreeing with you, as you guys have all of the experience. I am truly just intrigued by what your viewpoint is and how you came to it.

Explain to me why this would be necessary.

Right now I can have an amicable legal separation of finances where she will get half of our checking and savings and leave everything else alone. When I expose she may not be quite so willing to be amicable about the financial separation demanding much, much more than just the checking and savings. We are talking an extremely significant amount of money. So it's my thinking that it would be wise to protect my financial interests before stirring the pot. Now would you mind giving me your viewpoint? I'm sure your viewpoint is extremely valid with all of the experience you possess.

But we not advocating separation. AT ALL. The goal here is to save your marriage. We would coach you to not even talk about it. If she cleaned out your finances, she would just have to put it back.

I want to make another point and that is that you have been here for 2 weeks now and are no further along than when you arrived. You have had the evidence of her affair for several days and still have not exposed. This needs to be wrapped up so you can move onto next steps.

Have you read the exposure 101 thread in my signature? Have you put together a list of targets?

We are separating whether I like it or not. She signs the lease on an apartment today. So not advocating separation in my scenario is a moot point...we ARE separating. With this fact now known, I will be supporting the separation by FINANCING it. Even though emotionally and morally I do not support it.

Yes I have read your exposure 101 thread. She will be on a hiking trip with her sister this weekend, and I plan to make the list this weekend, including taking screenshots of all of her facebook friends before starting that one.

As to why I haven't moved any further along: Obviously I am not as strong as most of the people that visit this site. I am so conflicted on if it is or isn't the right decision...So I am still weighing everything out.

lostaf, you have to ask yourself what you want.

If you follow your plan you are advocating for a divorce and are trying to minimize your financial losses.

What is it that what you truly want? The money or your wife?

I'd say you truly want to be with your wife and wish to have a happy and romantic relationship. You can have that no matter what you may be feeling right now. If you decide that is what you really want then I'd suggest you stop your plan immediately and follow the advice you are getting here because it gives you your best shot of getting you what you want.

You're in a bad spot I get that. That is why I strongly encourage you to let these great people guide you through this. If you aren't aware the posters that are chatting with you have done this hundreds IF NOT thousands of times. We've seen a lot of success around here for those that follow the plan and those successes came because of these great people.

The only thing you are risking is not settling for more than half of what you own financially. Small price to pay for happiness I would think. I say you should give this your best shot.

Gotcha, can you move your money asap?


One correction, you should expose to the OM's facebook friends, not necessarily hers. You will expose to her family and close friends, but try to do this on a personal level, ie: phone call or email. You may have to resort to facebook but it should be rare.


Did you read Dr Harley's comments about exposure? You do realize he has 45 years of professional experience with infidelity? Those of us who are posting to you saved our own marriages using these tactics. Exposure is not guarantee, but it does give you the best chance of recovery. Keeping the affair a secret guarantees that you will most likely divorce because affairs thrive on secrecy.

It is hard to put aside emotions in these situations, but you are more likely to have a successful outcome if you can do that.

I would close with the suggestion that strength is a choice. We were ALL AFRAID. Strength comes from choosing to take action in spite of fear.

I can't really move money without getting attorney involved.

Also, I forgot to mention that she ACTUALLY admitted that she has feelings for someone else! She texted me 2 days ago and said "Do you really think we can continue when I clearly have feelings for someone else?"

I was dumbfounded....but I forgot to tell you guys this.

lostaf, I don't really see why that is important. Clearly we already know she has feelings for someone else if she is having an active affair?

Bottom line, you need to decide if you want to FIGHT for your marriage or just cut your losses and run. My WW took $3,000 from our joint account to retain a lawyer and actually served me with divorce papers. I STILL didn't give up and fought for my marriage. I heard all sorts of fog babble about us being incompatible, she never really loved me, she has been unhappy for X amount of years, etc... You just need to see through all of this and put your focus on the goal of saving your marriage.

I didn't find this site and it's wonderful advice until later in the affair. But, I was able to use the advice here to END the affair and get our marriage on the mend. You have to think "big picture" and follow the "tried and true" plan here exactly as stated. It works and what else do you have to lose at this point? Money is nothing without happiness!

Has she left that job, Tech_Man?

You're not taking our advice, and the affair has not ended, if she hasn't done that.

This is what concerned me when you said it because I view this as another delaying tactic. Actually you CAN move your own money. You should not waste any more time delaying exposure.


Yes, we could have told you this.

Wow, the things your wife said are the EXACT things my wife has said...although she added the whole "I've been thinking about kids for the past year or so and I know that I don't want to have them with you".

On the money topic...if it was only a few thousand dollars I wouldn't be concerned at all...but we are talking nearly 100 times that amount...

Thanks for your testament to these methods!

Either move the money [which you don't need a lawyer for ] or don't. But you need to take action.

I am currently working on all of the exposure emails/messages. I have a few questions regarding this.

1) I have no way of getting email addresses of people at her employer. Also, her AP is her boss. What should I do in this situation?

2)Evidence: Is it really enough? So let me explain the evidence that I have:
I have photos of her car at his house showing the number on the mailbox as well as the license plate number of her car.
I have a screenshot of a message she sent me that states "Do you really think we can carry on when I clearly have feelings for someone else?"
I have a photo of his profile photo that he put on the app that they use to message each other.
I Have a log that I have kept for a few days showing what time each of them went online/offline showing that they were texting each other (circumstantial at best)
3) Is sending the exposure "letter" by text message acceptable for her friends/family? Or is email really necessary?

Contact HR, a key vice president and the OM's boss. Go visit them in person and deliver a handwritten letter.


First off, your wife admitted the affair and you caught her at his home. Just say that. Dont say you have circumstantial eviednce, you caught her there! It is preferable that you call the closest family members, followed by an email. For others you could text an exposure letter.

Since I am almost positive that they are not utilizing company resources (they are using their personal mobile phones) I have modified the Workplace exposure letter.. Please provide feedback. I will post my modified letters to the others later for your review. Should i mention any of my evidence here? Should I mention she's my wife? Should I really put my name/number on it?

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

AP and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company time. While they are utilizing their personal mobile phones, they are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time in order to further their extramarital relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

Yes, of course you would need to mention that she is your wife. They have to know the facts.

Ok...so here is the friends and family one: Please Critique.

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of W and I. As some of you know, W has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. I am willing to accept my part in the issues at hand and am committed to making myself better for our marriage. However, to my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because W has been carrying on an affair with her manager named OM who resides in XX. The purpose of the separation is so that she can gain some distance, but quite possibly so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my dear W, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with W to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair and work with me on our issues. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

one small change:

And you do realize you need to expose to the OM's family and friends, right? Have you been to his facebook page?

and the facebook for OM's friends:

Dear friend of OM,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should be aware that he is having an affair with my wife, W. We have been married for 3 years, together for 12 years. They have been having this affair since August according to the evidence.

I would ask that you use your influence with OM to persuade him to leave my W alone. You should also watch your own wives around him because he is no friend to a marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you,

In your opinions shoul i change these to "emotional affair"? Because I truly don't think it has become physical at this point. And the first thing people think when they hear affair is sex...

Of course not.

What were they doing in the OM's house? Doing a Bible study?

So, now that I have all of those prepared, obviously after I do this I can expect outrage. She will be gone with her sister all weekend and will return Monday evening. They will be in the mountains with no service. Do you suggest that I do this while they are there? She obviously will be bombarded when she comes back.

Also, what are my next steps going to be after this? I would like to be as prepared as possible with a plan.

She is likely with the OM this weekend and has cell phone service. For that reason, be sure to get your exposures done in the same day. You can expect your wife to call you in a rage once the news gets out. Don't answer the phone.

The OM is going to spend this camping trip with your WW. And the OM is going to be "sleeping" in your WW (I hope you understand what is written between the lines) multiple times and positions.

Knowing this and you do not expose all then I don't know.

No, I know for sure that she is going with her sister to go hiking. This has been planned long before the "bomb drop" or the affair started. And I have been communicating with her sister about the trip to handle the financial side of it.

I am confused about why you don't think the OM is with her. How do you know "for sure?" The fact that it was "planned" before you believe the affair started is not a reason to believe they are not together.

What kind of communication are you having about the financial side of it?

I know it was planned before the affair started because it was planned before my wife got a job where the OM works. As far as why I think they are not together: I have already told her sister about what is going on...her sister would NOT cover that up. And her sister is definitely going with her, as I have talked to her husband as well.

I have been communicating with her sister about the hotel reservations and using points and stuff like that.

She is going to get a lease tomorrow so I need help NOW! sorry for the short notice.

Help! The financial conversation is going to happen soon! Give me your tips/opinions.

I was thinking something like "You already know that I do not agree with the idea of marital separation. Also, you obviously haven't ended your affair with OM and appear to have no intention to do so even after the issue with me finding you at his house and you admitting you have feelings for him. I think it is in both of our best interests if we separate our finances as I don't want to support a marital separation or the continuance of an extramarital affair. If at the end of all of this we reconcile then we can just as easily reverse this and re-combine our finances."

Don't start an argument. Go to the bank and separate your finances.

Don't even discuss it. Just go to the bank and separate your finances. If she asks about it, tell her the finances need to be separated since you are separating.

Just do it and move it to a separate bank. Take the day off if you must. Don't ask permission to protect yourself from her affair. Waywards spend money like water. Protect the family money from her poor impulses.

Not the first WW to have a sister cover for them and help her conduct her affair.