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#2888392 10/13/16 08:46 AM
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The last week of my life has been an absolute nightmare. Let me tell the whole backstory because I don't want to leave anything and want real insight as to what is going on.

My husband and I have known each other for 20 years. We met online as teenagers, on opposite coasts of the country (NY for me and CA for him). We started an online "relationship" which of course gradually faded away as we were both entering HS and we moved on with our lives, naturally. However, we always kept in touch. Ever since we met, he's been obsessed with being with me. He told his mom when he was 15 that he would marry me someday. So when he joined the army at 19/20 and he had a choice to be stationed in Korea or upstate NY he chose NY with the hope of being near me.

So we started a friendship in person. The first time we met we were both so nervous. But after the initial awkwardness, we were like best friends immediately. We had been sharing our personal friendship with each other for so many years it felt natural to be together. We didn't date at that time, because I had a boyfriend. But he kept coming out to see me at school (my school was 1.5 from his base). After I left an emotionally abusive relationship for the second time, he was there. I realized he'd always been there and he had told me that he would never treat me like that, and I believed him. So we got together. Two months later we were engaged, and 10 months after that we were married. He then went overseas for a year, and when he got back we were together.

We've been married now 12 years. We have a 7 year old son. I have a lot of issues from my childhood and have dealt with depression for most of our relationship. We have had many ups and downs but we have always come out together. I started to see a psychiatrist about 3 years ago to deal with the depression as I was tired of taking everything out on my family, my husband and not being present for my child (emotionally). I went 3 times a week for a year, and came out of it on medication and having to cut off half of my family due to their toxicity. I officially cut off my father in January of 2015. My husband has been there for me through it all, regardless of how poorly I've treated him. I know I have a short temper, I know that I have high expectations, or put pressure on him. The past year I have been working relentlessly to give him more freedom, let him off the hook and not be bothered so much by insignificant things. But I fear the damage has been done.

My husband on the other hand has also dealt with depression and feelings of inadequacy his entire life, but he's never gone to get help. He's been depressed many times, but he hides his emotions. He does not talk about them. He never talks about when he has a problem or issue or is upset. He was verbally/physically/emotionally abused and neglected throughout his childhood. He abused drugs, smoked, slept around and dropped out of school as a teenager. When he joined the army he turned everything around.

He's always had volatile relationships and it seems his goal in life was just to be married at all costs. He proposed to 2 or 3 other girls before me and I guess I'm the one that stuck. We have been very happy in the past, despite our communication problems. We have had love, respect, passion, fun. We are best friends.

A year ago his parents announced they were divorcing after 35 years. He has no good relationship with his parents, he is never honest with them and has never had a real conversation with them since we've been together. The first time he said anything to his mom about how she treated him as a child was just after they announced their divorce last fall. It was the first time her ever told her his feelings of neglect and abuse.

I told him at the time, that I thought he should go and talk to someone. That I thought this divorce was really going to affect him, even though on the outside he was just as he always was. But he wouldn't and didn't.

Meanwhile it's been about a 1.5 since he started a new job. We've been all over, moving many times in our marriage. He left one job to go back to school and earn his Bachelors and through that time we had to sacrifice. For one part we had to live with my mom to make ends meet since he couldn't work and attend to his school schedule at the time. But it worked out because the GI Bill payed for all his schooling. He got a new job and we had to decide what to do. My entire support system (family) is here in the city where we live and the job is 1 hour away. We mutually decided we'd live closer to the city where my family is and he would commute. He insisted he didn't mind driving (he loves cars/driving/finds it relaxing) and I reiterated over and over that I didn't want him to always be exhausted that he had to be 100% sure of this because I didn't want to be the reason he was unhappy with his work life.

He was adamant. We bought a beautiful home in the country. We decided I would homeschool our son, and that I would also work from home on my business that I'd been building for the past 3 years.

Everything was fine, we did all the typical family things - went hunting for christmas trees, and decorated the house together, watching movies and tv together, took our child out to the park, dog for walks, we have dinner together EVERY NIGHT. We never eat in front of the tv or alone. We sit at the table and talk. He has always been affectionate and loving towards me. I have a hard time showing affection, I will admit. My father may have sexually abused me, but I don't know as I have no memories before age 10 (except being fearful of him) but he did it to my aunt and he's just a bad person and I have attachment issues because of it.

I have been feeling these past few months that he's been withdrawing towards me. We both had gained a few pounds, and I know I haven't been feeling attractive, and stopped trying so hard to impress him. I would still be in my pjs when he got home some days. And I admit that I faltered there. I should never let him feel like I didn't want to look my best for him.

I would say 3-4 months ago it was like a light switch and our hum-drum love life went FULL force. He was all over me, every night he wanted me. It was so amazing and I was so happy. We were so in tune, everything was great. Then gradually he started to withdraw. His mother came to live here for 2.5 months, and she was supposed to check out the area to see if she wanted to move near us and live or near his brother (in TX). However, a day after she got here she informed him (tearfully) that she already had but an offer in on a house in Texas before coming here. He was so angry and so was I. He's always played second fiddle to his brother, and I know he was excited at the prospect of having a member of his family around. I suspect he's always resented the fact that we've been near mine all this time, and he has not.

He told her it was fine that she would do what makes her happy. So the past 6 weeks he's been helping her deal with closing on this house that he was so angry at her for buying.

I would say a month or so ago, I started to get majority concerned about his lack of sexual affection towards me (he was still being affectionate in other ways). I told him I needed to feel wanted and desired, that I wanted him to want me. He had said that his issues with sex was making him not want to do it (he couldn't last, he would orgasm within a min or two and feel like he wasn't satisfying me, even though I told him that didn't matter to me!) Well, we had a conversation and I told him how I felt. He also told me some things that I didn't know. Things I say or do that upset him or make him feel "controlled" or "micromanaged". Ever since he was in the army he's hated being "told" what to do. Like if I announced that our son needed a bath tonight he would take it as me "Telling" him what to do.

So for about a week after that convo he was trying. We went on daily walks together to talk, and held hands. He started initiating more. When he came home he would kiss me for real. He said he wanted to hang out and watch a romantic movie on the weekend and we did. He was there for me. he told me he loved me.

Then everything changed. I felt him withdrawing again. I told him I thought he was becoming depressed and that he should get help. That I wanted him to be happy and that he didn't know if it would work unless he tried. That I would be there for him. He said he didn't know what to do. That he was scared to go and that he might find out he wants something "different". One week ago yesterday, when I hugged him after work, he didn't hug me back. The next day he pecked me on the lips like I was his grandma. I was very very concerned. I asked if he'd like to go on a date out to dinner that night. He said yes.

We started talking and I guess I got flushed, and splotchy which is what happens when I am really nervous. I had been talking to my sister and my friend that I felt like he was withdrawing and his words about being afraid of things "changing" were making me feel very uncomfortable and like he didn't want to be with me.

He kept pressuring me to tell him what was wrong, and I started to tear up. I told him I thought he was withdrawing from me, and asked him...if he still wanted to be with me? He said he didn't "know" what he wants.

Let me backtrack a bit and say that he did say he was going to get "help" and he emailed the VA. But he didn't call. In his message he said that he had been "dealing with mental issues for a long time and was ready to get help as it was affecting his mental state and "certainly his personal relationships"' however, they haven't gotten back to him. I have checked and he hasn't tried again.

So friday night he said that to me, and I was devastated. I tried to hold it together, I tried to be there. I thought it was his depression making him say these things. My family keep telling me he just needs space. So I cried that night, I didn't sleep and the following morning I went to my sisters. I cried to her, but then was steadfast in my decision that I would be there for him, that I would help him get through this and give him space, believing his depression was the cause for this change of heart and that he would come back to me. The whole weekend I was upbeat, caring. I didn't try to initiate any touch or contact, as badly as I wanted to. He would come home and say hi, and then withdraw. The hardest part was that he was completely normal with my son and his mother and everyone else. We would watch tv and we would laugh. But he didn't try to be near me, he didn't touch me. All week he's gone to bed with his back to me. It's like he wanted to be as far away from me as possible.

Yesterday it all came to a head. His mother literally left our home yesterday morning for good. Then at 4:30pm he came home and told me he was reading and that it scared him. That he thought we were "enmeshed" and that all of the symptoms resonate with him. That he's been only staying with me for our son, that he doesn't want him to be messed up like we are, that he was always doing things for me to make me happy but he hasn't been happy.

I know I have been difficult to live with. I know that I have been an emotional leech. I have always asked him over and over to open up to me, to tell me when something is wrong, but he doesn't. His way of dealing is clamming up. Shutting down. Pushing it down and down. He says his emotional buckets are overflowing. That he wants to be alone. That he wants to be friends. That he wants to be a good father. That he doesn't want to hurt me.

I had made an appointment with a therapist for tomorrow thinking I could talk to her about how to best support him through this depression and how to deal with on my end so that I could accept his not acting loving towards me and to be able to vent to someone besides him, while we work it out. Now he basically says he doesn't want to be with me. I left the house. Screaming and crying in my car. I feel blindsided. I feel like he punched me in the gut. He just sat there, no emotion about me at all. NONE. A week ago, he was hugging me and kissing me. now he's turned everything off.

So, I know the issue of an affair will be brought up. there is more backstory here. When we decided to finally have a baby he was currently in school getting a certification. He was away all day about 45 minutes drive away. We decided to try and that was that. Then he started withdrawing, being meaner to me. When I'd call him at school from work he'd act short and angry with me for calling. I was getting worried. I piled on the affection. i told him he could talk to me that i loved him.

We started reconnecting. Then the phone bill came. There were text charges there (this was before we had smart phones or unlimited texting). He said he'd gotten some wrong numbers and whatever. I believed him at the moment. Then I decided to investigate. The texts were to the same number, there were phone calls too. Always on his drive to or from school, always just after hanging up with me. I snooped. I went through his email. I found a conversation with an army buddy and he talked about how "everything was good now" that he "dealt with it" and that he'd "never had a temptation like that before". I confronted him and he told me everything. A girl in his class, he started flirting with, texting, calling. They'd study together. They were together all day at school for months. He decided to end it when he said he was going away for his duty weekend for the guard 2 hours away and she asked him if she could meet up with him there and hang out. He didn't think she was serious until she asked which hotel he would be at. He says nothing happened. I believe him because he told his friend the same, and in secrecy.

I was devasted. I found this out about 2 days after I found out I was pregnant. I was furious. I was heartbroken. But I had decided to have a baby with this man! He said he would never hurt me again, he said he loved me. He didn't want our relationship to end.

This was 7 years ago. I know the signs of an affair are there...but I cannot find any evidence. None at all. I have gone through his emails, I have checked phone logs. I sincerely thought it was his depression or something triggered by his parents separation. I have not snooped his phone. I have been trying to rebuild trust between us since after his first emotional affair and his lack of transparency and honesty with me about his feelings and state of being our entire relationship.

He wakes up early to go to work, he leaves super early so he can be home early and be with us. I always know where he is. I've called him at work this whole time and he's always in his office (up to this point). Or tells me that he will be in a meeting or whatever. He comes straight home. He doesn't guard his cell phone, he doesn't have a password. I can log into his personal email account from my computer, he doesn't care. He just comes home, is miserable, is exhausted, goes to bed early. He's not eating, he's losing weight. all the symptoms of depression are there, and I know how I was in the very deep throes of depression and I can sympathize with the way he feels.

I asked him point blank last week if there was someone else. He said no. I asked him again last night when I came back around midnight. He was sleeping. i was going to steal his phone and snoop, but I was worried he'd catch me. SO I woke him. I asked him again. Is there someone else? Please tell me the truth. He said no, there was no one. I said, "Not even something small, a flirtation? Someone at work you like to talk to ?" he said no. I told him he had until today if he was lying to tell me the truth, asked him if he knew that if I find out it's someone else it will kill me. He said ok, but it's not.

So I can snoop his phone at some point I'm sure. He doesn't hide it or guard it. He just leaves it around. I've been trying to log into his work email from home, but I can't access it. I don't know where he logs in from. I am hoping he has it set up on his phone, but I don't know.

He is dead set that it's over. He says he will try to talk to someone. I confronted him about getting help, because he had said he wanted to talk to someone to see what he wants. I asked him if he called. He said he'd emailed a few times and hadn't heard back. I told him that the therapist I am seeing would be willing to see him and he came back with being worried about "confidentiality" and her separating her opinions about us. This therapist will see us together also, so I am not sure if I will take that route or not or if he even wants to. When I pushed him to see if he called he finally admitted he hadn't. I told him, if he really wanted to feel better he would TRY. That I wasn't going to let him just walk away from this relationship. That I would never have had a kid with him if I'd known there was ever a possibility of having to raise him as divorced parents. I came from a family like that and i never wanted my child to go through that.

So now I am stuck. I don't know what to do. I've been reading all the info here and elsewhere, but it all feels like things that both people have to try to put in. And right now I feel like he doesn't want anything to do with me. That if I try to touch him he will pull away. How do I save my marriage? I love him. He is such a large part of my life, and my son's life. We've been an enviable family to outsiders. I was always giving advice to my sisters an girlfriends about not settling that there are "good" guys out there that will treat them like princesses, like my husband does.

I'm so lost and afraid. Tell me what I am doing wrong or where to go from here. Please help.

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Summary:
*Met online 20 years ago, engaged 13 years ago, married 12 y, 7 y/o son, army marriage.
*Affair with classmate happened before you got pregnant, you discovered during pregnancy because you have access to his mail and phone.
*Now all the signs of an affair are there, but you didn't find one yet.
*He has a history of substance abuse and sleeping around.
*You have angry outbursts (I know I have a short temper)
*He had (has?) angry outbursts (volatile relationships)
*History of depression at both sides

How did the previous affair end, do you know who it was with, did it end properly?

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Hi there,

The previous affair ended on his terms, before I found out about it. He didn't have any physical relationship with her. I never met her. He had mentioned her name once probably before I found out. I told him that he was never to speak to her again. He said it would be difficult because she was in his class. She actually ended up flunking out or dropping out a few weeks later and he never spoke to her again or saw her again.

The substance abuse and sleeping around all happened and ended before we even started dating. Since he's joined the army he hasn't smoked, or done drugs or anything. He was starting to drink regularly, like 1-2 drinks at night to "unwind" but at the beginning of Sept he decided to stop as at the time he said he was going to try to lose weight, but near the end of the month he told me that it was because he was starting to feel like he was turning into his father, needing a drink to deal and then blocking us out.

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You need to put spyware on his phone. Also, put a VAR in his vehicle.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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So I was able to access his iPhone back up from iTunes on my computer. I found nothing. I wasn't able to get on his email from my computer, but after he went to sleep I did take his phone and found how to access his work email. There was also nothing there. I'm going to see a psychologist today and I am going to talk to her about what's going on and see if I can figure out where I want to go from here. He is still acting distant and unwilling to talk. I had emailed him a link to the Emotional Needs quiz, and the article about Caring for children requiring the parents to care for each other, but I doubt he will read them.

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You're stuck in a terrible nightmare, and you have my sympathy. I've been in the situation where knew something was going on, but could not monitor it.

You cannot give up spying because you have found nothing; all the signs of an affair are there.

Your husband might have another phone that he keeps at work. He shows an unusual degree of openness with his current phone, and that could be the explanation. Is there any way you could sneak a voice-activated recorder into a bag he takes to work? If he goes to the gym at work and takes a bag, or perhaps has a laptop bag, could you find a compartment in which to hide a VAR?

The best thing, though would be to hire a PI. If you tell a PI about his comings and goings, he would know when to watch, and could find the evidence in two days.


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His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Also, check the financial records. He may have a hidden phone. And place a VAR in his car.

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If financial records on accounts you know about don't show any unusual activity, also pull his credit report and look for accounts you don't know about.

JenDee #2888613 10/20/16 02:09 AM
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So it's been about a week, and up until a couple days ago my husband was not guarded with his phone. Boy did that change. I went to look at our Verizon account and the password had been changed. So I went to his gmail account, and the password is also changed. I asked him why he changed the Verizon password and he gave me some [censored] excuse about a notification of hacking from the company or something. I asked him to log me in. I left the room and he logged me in, but then I was getting ready to meet a friend and the way he was acting just made me so angry. I said "Something is going on. I don't know what you are hiding from me but SOMETHING happened". Oh, his phone was on the bed and that password have been changed too. I went out with my friend and when I came home I went to log onto Verizon again. I wanted to see if he'd saved the password. The screen had timed out. I tried to log in. Wrong password. So he had to have clicked "do not save password" when it popped up earlier in the evening. My thoughts are he's probably been texting someone but only iMessages so I couldn't see them. Now he's moved on to calling her, and there will be a record of those calls. He has an hour drive to and from work. This is when I suspect they are chatting.

So after I became even more angry and suspicious, I knocked on his door and barged in, telling him to show me his phone right now. He sat up and because FURIOUS. I told him I know he's changed his passwords, WHY? He started turning it around on me, telling me that he KNEW I was snooping, and that from this moment on I will not be "In his [censored]". I asked him who he was talking to. He denied denied denied. I said that I wasn't stupid, you don't just turn off your feelings to someone after 12 years. WHO IS IT. He said he'd been talking to some people from work because he has no one. First he wouldn't admit if it was women or men. I don't think it's multiple people. I think it's one person. He kept denying it. Well as luck would have it, right as I was standing there his phone buzzed. It was 10:45 pm. He was in bed. I said WHO is texting you at 10:45 in bed? I demanded to see the phone and he refused. Basically we went back and forth and he further revealed that he was texting with a co-worker. That he is just talking to her because he has no one else. I lost it. I told him, you are supposed to talk to ME. We had just done a temporary separation agreement and one of the groundless was no other relationships. I told him that texting another woman in his marital bed at 11 pm about his failing marriage was inappropriate and if it wasn't already an affair it was on it's way there. I told him that he was throwing away our marriage. That of course he won't feel things for me when he's talking to someone else. She is telling him things he wants to hear. I asked him what was the point of the separation? We were going to decide what to do at the end, move forward with reconciliation or divorce? He told me right now, today he wants a divorce. But he said three months is a long time and doesn't know how he'll feel then. I told him that if he continues to follow this path he is on, then it WILL end in divorce, so what would be the point in even waiting. I am so hurt and upset. It is 3 am, and I haven't slept yet because of this. I am shaking I am so hurt. What do I do?

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I am currently downloading a key logger onto my desktop, so that the next time he puts in a password I will have a record of it.

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I know how much this hurts and I'm sorry you're hurting. You will find out the truth and then that will give you the best plan to fight for your marriage and bust up the affair.

Put a voice atctivated recorder (VAR) in his vehicle.

Also can you get her number and start researching on who she is?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Have you checked all the bank accounts? Make sure you have money. Also, you may want to get a PI to follow him at work. If he has already gotten to a separation agreement, it is likely physical.

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So this morning he called me. I was trying to get teen safe on his phone and apple notified him of me logging in. It was either that or trying to sign into messenger from my computer. Either way, I blew it. he called me to ask what I was doing. Last night we didn't finish our "conversation" because my son ran into the room crying, upset that he woke up and we didn't hear him calling us. So I went to bed with him and left my husband there in the room. I just told him that yes, I was trying to access his phone. I felt he'd been lying to me and since he can't be truthful I was trying to snoop. He said he wanted to continue talking. I told him his behaviors are pointing to an affair and not just depression, and that of course he doesn't want to be with me if he wants to be with someone else. He changed back the password on Verizon and told me I could go look. There are two convos from the past 2 days to one number that were both when I wasn't at home and were over an hour long. I asked him if this woman's (who is married) husband would appreciate his wife talking to a married man for over an hour at night. He said no. So I don't know what to do. I told him I need to talk to him. He says that this person is not the reason he wants to separate from me. I wanted to have him read the article about infidelity (part 1) I think? It is text book what he is doing. Is that a bad idea? He seems so tired and apathetic. Like he just doesn't care anymore. I didn't sleep at all last night and I am still shaking.

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Oh, I also just looked up her number and I immediately found her name and then her Linkd in profile and FB profile.

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You need to slow down and be more strategic here. At this point, all you have done is fly off the handle which is very unattractive and will drive him to her, and give away the fact that you are suspicious so the affair can go more underground.

You need to stop and take a breath. You can fight this if you follow a plan. You will just harm your marriage more if you choose to be a loose canon instead.

I am very sorry you are going through this.

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QUIETLY put spyware on the computer. He knows you are trying to do so to his phone so will probably switch to a burner phone at this point. Also, put a VAR in his car, I think you will gain a lot of evidence from this.

Do not confront him or tell him what you are doing. Do not fly off the handle. I know this is hard because you are mad and hurt. But many people here have been able to get the evidence in a strategic stealth manner, you can do this!

Meanwhile, read the Exposure 101 thread in the notable posts section and prepare an exposure list. Go NOW to social media and make a list of exposure targets for OW, she has been tipped off that you know now and will probably be locking those down tight. Do NOT tell your husband or threaten exposure, you do not want to tip your hand anymore than you already have.

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Go read up in Exposure 101 (link below). Exposure 101

Stop talking about the affair for the moment. You need start working the strategy in the plan.

forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583

Last edited by apples123; 10/20/16 08:37 AM.
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I'm going to remain calm. What do I do if he says he wants to be with her? Or that he no longer wants to try and wants a divorce? I just need some encouragement that we can still survive this. I will look into the VAR as soon as I can get to a store to buy one with cash. Maybe tonight. The key logger on my computer is still up and running, so maybe if I leave the house for a bit tonight he'll use the computer while I am gone.

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Stop. Go to Facebook and copy her friends list into a document. Then Read Exposure 101.

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Ok I've copied her friends list and saved it as a draft email in an old account he doesn't know I still use. I read Exposure 101 last night while I was not sleeping all night, but I will go back over it again now. Thank you.

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