New to the forum. I am 47, my wife is 41. We have five children, ages 16 down to four. Married since 1998.

I don't want to type everything out, so I'll just provide the high (low) lights.

In July of '15, my wife received an e-mail from a male friend that she has known since childhood. They never dated, but perhaps had feelings of some degree at some time in the past. They had, to my knowledge, kept in contact after we got married, but it was only sporadic (two or three times a year) and never anything to be concerned about. In this particular e-mail, he expressed desire for her. He is in the Coast Guard, and regularly was at sea away from his own wife and kids (2). He lives and works in VA, we live in New England.

That e-mail started a back-and-forth string of e-mails that led to him telling my wife in September 2015 that they would have to be very careful to keep their respective spouses in the dark about what was going on. My wife responded with something very close to "don't worry about [1987], he isn't like that (being jealous). He wouldn't suspect a thing because he trusts me."

On November 16, 2015, I had a heart attack. Their e-mails were still going strong at that time, and I had no idea what was happening between the two of them.

By December, she was starting to share songs with him, the first being "Photograph" by Ed Sheeran. (When I found the e-mails and the song, I listened to it and was devastated. Crushed. Absolutely ripped apart. More on that later)

Also in December, he had them switch their comms from e-mails to "Words with Friends," a scrabble type of app game on their cell phones. There, they could message each other within the app and it would never show up in e-mails or on our cell phone bills. They played each other all the time (I did not know this until summer of '16) and of course messaged each other all the time through the app, too.

At some point in the winter, they switched to "Palringo," a gaming/messaging app on their phones where they could share pictures.

In February, my wife mentioned going to NJ and SC to see her family (none of them live around us anymore, they all moved away). I told her she should go and that we'd buy her the plane tickets. "No," she said, "I want to drive." At that instant, I thought it was curious that she'd say that, and I wondered about her Coast Guard buddy in VA, but didn't think too deeply on it and let it go.

By spring time, I was going to bed nearly every night alone and she'd come to bed hours after me. She also was being VERY guarded with her phone. It's amazing that it never dawned on me what was going on. She ALWAYS had her phone on her person, and if I walked nearby, she'd either subtly turn it so I couldn't see what was on it, or she'd simply turn it off instantly. I can't believe I didn't catch on. I guess I that's the nature of trust, isn't it?

Anyway, by early July, she was preparing for her trip, which originally was to be seven days, then she asked for eight, and then ten. The night before she was to leave, I asked her if we were OK and if there was something wrong. She said we were OK and that we were experiencing just normal married things, nothing big.

The day she left, my mother told me that my wife previously mentioned to her that she wanted to see "some friends" while away. My wife never said a word to me. My mother also told me these exact words, "You better start paying more attention to your wife, because she's having an affair."

I was floored. I couldn't believe it. I was even miffed at my mother for saying such a thing. I had a feeling that something wasn't right for a while now, but I could never put my finger on it, so I didn't dwell on it.

Anyway, aside from texting me to tell me she had arrived in NJ, I didn't hear from her for two days. When we did finally speak, I asked her if she was going to drive straight through to SC. The phone went silent.

"I was hoping to stop and see [her Coast Guard buddy] on the way."

At that, I sort of unloaded on her, but not in a mean way. I told her she was obviously planning on seeing him right from the start when she planned the trip six months ago, and that she never bothered to tell me. I was pretty miffed. I told her she might as well, because no matter what I said was going to change anything. I was angry.

So she stopped to see him at his workplace (somewhere in VA, and it was somehow Coast Guard related) and then continued on to SC to see other family members.

While she was in SC, we talked at length about things, and it was pretty raw. Even though I was angry about her secret plans, I STILL didn't think anything like an affair was going on. I just couldn't wrap my mind around it. Even so, I suspected I was losing her to a degree (or more), and I was breaking down. I was bawling my eyes out while alone back home, realizing that something was happening with my wife that wasn't good and it was breaking me.

After a few days of late night phone calls that lasted for hours, we seemed to patch things up and there was an uneasy calm for the remainder of her trip.

When she got home, we had a magical night together, where we both committed to working harder on our marriage.

I made drastic changes. I was helping her more around the house. Leaving her love notes here and there. We were going out on dates. We started a family prayer time every night. On the surface, things were going much, much better. She appeared to be much happier, too.

However, she was still on her phone a lot. She was still guarding her phone, but not as diligently. I gave her the password to my phone, saying no part of my life should ever be off limits to her in order to make her more amenable to giving me her password. She reluctantly gave it to me. This provided an opportunity to look through her phone (it is in my name and I pay the bill) to see exactly what was going on with it.

On night of September 9th, I found the e-mails I referenced earlier. I also saw the song. I also could tell she was sending pics to him last fall, but the pics weren't viewable. Clearly, they had established a covert relationship that was way over the line. She was cheating on me.

That morning (the 10th), while we were outside on lawn chairs with coffee, I brought out my laptop and told her I wanted to show her something. I went to Youtube and started playing "Photograph," and just looked at her. She started tearing up, and I said these words to her, "That's a beautiful song to share with someone you love."

At that, I implored her to tell me what was going on, and all she could muster was a plea to let the past stay in the past. After some conversation, I let it go.

The next day, I attended a 9/11 remembrance ceremony, and when I got home, I brought her outside again and asked her again what was going on, what she did. I told her I saw a lot on her phone, but I needed her to tell me with her own mouth. I needed her to come clean. She finally told me. There were elements of everything (they confided everything with each other, they sent nude pics back and forth, they sexted, they told each other they loved each other, that they had codes for a bunch of stuff, the works. She denied they ever had sex, however. She still denies it.

I told her she needed to contact him that day in my presence and tell him they were never to contact each other again. She did that.

So D-day was 9/11/16. We've been working on our marriage since. There's quite a bit to say about our reconciliation, but I'm wiped out from all this typing and reliving it again, so perhaps I will save it for later.

I saw some of the pics she sent him, and yes, they are quite graphic and hurtful. Aside from the pics, the only other things I've seen are the e-mails from last fall. While I know the messages from WWF and Palringo would be far, far more damaging to see, I sort of wish I could see all that, but I don't know if it's possible. I wish it was. I want to see exactly what was said. Maybe it would destroy me again, given that we appear to be on better footing now and making progress...but I still want to know exactly what transpired. While I saw some pics, I wish I could retrieve all the pics from the phone. I don't know why, but I want to see them. I'm not a techie, so I'm not sure how to go about that or even if it's possible.

Anyway, I have cried so many tears in the aftermath of D-day, it isn't funny. Her cheating and deceit utterly broke me. Three months post D-day, I believe we are doing better, but I don't know if I will ever forget this betrayal.

I never thought my wife would do this.

Welcome to MB and sorry for what has brought you here.

What spyware do you have on her devices so you can monitor her? Has she changed all contact information?

Has the avenue of how she conducted the affair been closed?

Sorry for your pain, 1987. You can be sure they had sex on her trip. That is what the trip was all about. Have her take a polygraph if she is denying it. If she refuses you have your answer.

Read Surving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley. It will help you form a plan to kill this affair, which I would bet is still going on, and it will offer a plan for recovery. You need a plan.

Welcome to MB. I am very sorry for this painful experience you have been through!

Dr Harley has created a plan that can heal your marriage from an affair, and make it better than it has ever been.

Have you exposed her affair? If not, this needs to be done. Please go read the Exposure 101 thread and start compiling a list of exposure targets. This is something that many people want to avoid, but it is the single greatest thing you can do to 1) end the affair 2) provide accountability to your WW so she does not restart or continue the affair and 3) get support for your marriage.

Once you have all your questions answered about the affair, you should never discuss it again. You should focus on affair proofing your marriage and making it better than its ever been.

If you do not feel like you have gotten the truth, specifically about the EA being a PA, I would ask your WW to do a polygraph test. We have a poster on here who found out that the EA her husband had 16 years ago was actually a PA, and is devastated all over again. We do not want this to be you. If you do not care whether the EA was a PA then maybe it is not important to get this info, but if you do and will continue to wonder, I would highly suggest a polygraph.

Dr Harley advises couples to take extraordinary precautions to protect their marriage from affairs.

Please tell us what has been done from this list.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

I saw your post in the Operation Investigation forum.

Your WW should have No Contact with her AP forever. She should not only stop communicating with him, but also make communicating with him next to impossible. She should change phone numbers and email addresses, and of course she should get off of any social media or app that they used to communicate. There is no reason she needs to have Words with Friends or any other game.

Even if the affair has ended, any time her AP contacts her or she contacts him, or even looks at his facebook or sees him logged in online somewhere, it will trigger her. It will keep her in the affair fog and prevent your marriage from recovering. It could also lead to them reconnecting and starting the affair all over again. And it also is a huge trigger for you, making you feel unsafe, which you should because it is dangerous and will prevent recovery! So you can see it is very very important to establish no contact and follow the EP's regarding that 100%.

I am not sure if you can retrieve old messages from the apps, but you can install a keylogger on her phone, ipad or computer now to monitor her and make sure the affair is over.

Here is where I am right now:

A. Whereas I had no trust in my wife for the first month or two after D-day on 9/11/16, I now have some trust. I guess you could say my default setting isn't "unbelief" anymore. It's somewhere between not believing her and completely believing her.

B. My good days are getting almost normal and they are increasing in number and frequency. The bad days aren't quite as bad as the first couple of months after D-day.

C. My thirst for every detail isn't as strong as it was. I still wonder about a few things (such as whether or not it got physical in any way, or exactly badly she misrepresented me to her AP).

D. My desire to know the "whys" is also starting to wane. I guess you could say I am less concerned about the affair now and more concerned about what she's doing currently (if what I'm seeing from her is real and genuine, and not just a front like her life during the affair). I really want to monitor her phone for a while to confirm whether or not she's being completely honest about her actions now.

E. I still cry from time to time now, but it's only about once a week or so. I trusted her so completely, so thoroughly, that this episode shook me down to my core and ripped my life apart. Sometimes I still can't believe she did what she did.

For some reason, she held on to the AP's contact info after D-day. I let it slide for about a month after D-day, and finally confronted her about it. She said she just never got around to deleting it, but that she never used it or contacted him in any way since D-day. In my presence, she deleted it that day.

She also deleted him from her "friends" list on Words with Friends. Of course, he may have an alternate username, but without going completely Magnum, PI I wouldn't ever find out about it.

I am somewhat-to-mostly trusting of her when she says she's been completely "clean" since D-day.

Dr Harley does not advise blind trust. This is because, under the right circumstances, ALL of us are wired to have an affair. You have unfortunately found this out the hard way. It would be silly to give her blind trust right now, when she has proven herself untrustworthy. You can rebuild some trust through the actions I have posted to this thread, while also VERIFYING through snooping that she is acting trustworthy.

It is silly to blindly trust someone who has behaved so untrustworthy. Holding on to her AP's information is an untrustworthy action. Doing everything she can do to change her information so that it is next to impossible for him to contact her or her to contact him is a trustworthy action, but she has not done that. She instead held onto his contact information. Again, you should not be giving her blind trust.

If she is serious about ending her affair and saving your marriage, she needs to change her phone number completely, and get off any and all social media or apps that she used to communicate with him (or could in the future).

I am sorry to say that based on what you have told us, she doesn't seem very serious about ending contact with him. I am very concerned you have more DDays coming in the future my friend. If you do not put EP's into place to protect your marriage, it is very likely this affair will rekindle, if it hasn't already.

Thank you for the replies, including this one.

While I acknowledge that being at ground zero, I won't have the most objective perspective of what's going on, I still am fairly certain she's been faithful since D-day. Yes, a few things here and there have stuck in my craw over the last three months, but overall I see no hard evidence of continued infidelity.

Of course, I still don't trust her completely and I am still quite hypersensitive to everything she says and does (what I mean is that my "spidey senses" are still operating at full power). This is why I want to install a key logger on her phone, so I can monitor what's going on when I'm not in visual range. With enough passage of time (and her being faithful), I will be able to trust her again.

Having said that, I'd like to ask a different question about the (aftermath of the) affair:

I've been wrestling with telling the OBS about what transpired between my wife and the AP. My wife is adamant about NC being honored since D-day and that she will never do this again, so I have reasonable belief that the affair is indeed over and has been since at least 9/11/16.

This is also further complicated because about ten years ago (or more), the AP informed my wife that his wife cheated on him while he was at sea. So, for years, my wife and I knew that he was a BS and had some measure of sympathy for him because of it. Of course, it is possible that the AP lied back then and his wife never did cheat on him, but I think it's quite possible he was cheated on.

So this leaves me in a quandary: Do I contact the AP's wife and tell her about the affair between her H and my wife? Or do I simply chalk it up to two spouses who deserve each other and each other's infidelity?

Do I ignore the very real possibility that she cheated on him and still tell her of an affair that is now over? Is there anything to gain by that?

I don't know what to do.

1987, yes, you should most definitely tell the other betrayed spouse. She has a right and a need to know so she can protect herself and her children from your wife and her husband. Just ask yourself what you would do if you knew her bookkeeper was stealing her money behind her back? You would tell her, right? Well, adultery is a more serious crime than embezzlement.

I would quietly reach out to the OMW [other man's wife] and tell her everything you know about the affair. Give her any evidence you have. You can tell your wife afterwards.

I wanted to add the above to the discussion about trust. Your wife knows you have an odd desire to "trust" her and uses this against you. It is too much trust that leads to affairs. You have learned this the hard way. It is not a lack of trust that ruins marriages but a lack of boundaries.

I agree with you that the lack of boundaries was what got her in trouble. She and I have spent some time discussing that issue.

As far as my trust goes, I don't believe for a second that I had "an odd desire to trust her." I simply DID trust her. There was never a reason NOT to trust her...until this. Now, that trust is shot to hell and it will take a long, long time of her being faithful again to earn it back.

I gotcha. Just know that she knew you had a blind trust for her and used that knowledge in pursuing her affair. Dr. Harley actually says "it is too much trust that leads to affairs." And this is very true. Most of us trusted way too much and learned the hard way!

Quick update for you all. I know there is quite a bit of experience here in dealing with these matters, so I want to open up a little bit about where I am right now.

We are exactly three months post D-day (actually, three months plus one day). In my heart, I (want) to believe my wife has been faithful. In my mind, I believe there is a very good chance that she's been faithful, too. Yes, there have been a few instances here and there where I've seen things that make me wonder, but they haven't been "smoking gun" type of things, just stuff that I don't know what to do with.

I love my wife. I've always loved her. I gave my heart to her on our wedding day (even before that, but you understand) and have never strayed from her. Our marriage of 18 years hasn't always been peachy, but quite a bit of it has. It's been the last few years that's been a little rough.

I started a construction business one year after we got married and still run it today. I am also involved in government and politics (first at the state level and now strictly local), and that has dominated a lot of my time. Our marriage issues stem largely due to my focus outside the home and family, leaving my wife to run the household. She said she felt alone, neglected, and like a single mother of our five children.

Anyway, not sure why I posted all that, but my current dilemma is this: I love my wife. I always have. This entire thing (her affair) destroyed me. It destroyed my entire way of looking at the world, including her. I love her, but there are times when I still am in disbelief that she did this. I'll be driving, thinking about it all, and I just blurt out, "WHY?? Why Leah?? How could you do this??"

There are times when I don't want to exist anymore. I wish I could just disappear, and not be alive, almost like George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life."

I get angry at times when I'm alone, too. I don't show it to anyone other than my parents, who've ended up being the only people I can vent to.

There are still times when I cry at the drop of a hat. I don't understand it.

There are also times when I want to tell my wife she needs to leave, if only because it seems like all the consequences have been shouldered by me. She seems happy, and I'm thankful for that, but damnit I'm still wounded here and everybody's so happy. Shouldn't I be? Why am I feeling this way?

You guys have experience in this. What's going on with me? I want to live happily ever after with my wife, why am I feeling this way?

You feel this way because you have experienced the most devastating thing you can experience in a marriage. You CAN have better days, but only if you truly recover your marriage in the right way.

Where are you at with confirming no contact (snooping)?

What have you done to fill in the gaps in your EP's?

Has she answered all of your questions, and if so, are you still talking about the affair?

You can overcome this, personally and in your marriage, if you affair proof your marriage and then make it the best it has ever been. If you do not do these things, you will continue to feel anger and resentment for years.

You also need to expose to the OM's BW. It is cruel for you not to. She deserves to know the truth about her life, and she deserves to be able to protect herself. Furthermore, it will help to have another set of eyes on what they are doing. There is absolutely no reason NOT to contact her and tell her today.

Whether she cheated on him in the past or not is completely irrelevant. You don't even know if that is true, and even if it is, that does not have any bearing on what your wife and her husband are doing right now. I don't know why you think that has any bearing on this at all.

Who all have you exposed to?

Have you exposed to the OM's BW? Have you told your children?

What EPs have been put in place?

1. Still trying to find the best method. I'm hoping to get something in place this week.

2. I don't understand what you are asking.

3. She has answered most questions (as in: virtually all, but not all). The thing is, I think she's minimized many of the details, too. I have a feeling that when she says, "I complained about you to the AP," she is leaving out just how badly she made me look. I know she compared my d*ck size with his (apparently he makes my average size tool look small by comparison) in pictures, etc, and the only reason to do that would be to really dig the knife in me. That makes me believe her "complaining" is code for stuff that's way worse than what she's letting on.

I want to know exactly what she did or said when she said she "complained" about me, but I haven't gotten any details.

She also has adamantly claimed it never got physical. The longer I go, the less I am inclined to believe that.

AFA notifying the OBS, I am trying to work that out. Trouble is, she lives 500 miles away and I have no contact info, and if I did, I'd have to try and figure out a way to do it without the AP getting in the way.

It should not be hard with facebook. Can you find her facebook account and find out where she works? You can call her house when you think the OM might not be there.

If I can expose to a man in New Zealand, I am confident you can successfully expose to this lady.

This is what I am talking about with EPs (extraordinary precautions). You have a lot of questionable answers on some pretty major EP's (like making sure the OM cannot contact your wife again...this has not been done).

Yes_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

Yes_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

Done via text_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

I guess so_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

Sort of_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

Not really_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

Sort of_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

Yes_____Spend leisure time together.

Not applicable_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

Yes_____Avoid overnight separation.

Mostly_____Allow technical accountability.

Mostly_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

OK, I have purchased Webwatcher, but every time I request data from it, it says the phone hasn't backed up to iCloud. I know the phone's automatic iCloud backup is ON, so I don't understand the problem.

AFA EPs, yes, we did not change the number on my wife's phone and yes, she still plays WWF. At this point, I am not convinced that either one is worth the trouble. That could change.

Also, after some sleuthing, I found out neither the AP nor the OBS are on facebook, so that route is out. I've googled her name in order to get a home phone number, but from what I gather, the AP/OBS have very little on the 'net due to security concerns (he's way up the food chain in the USCG). At this point, the only way I can see getting contact information is through my in-laws, who are friends with the AP's entire family. If that's the case, I don't see any way I can contact the OBS without my wife knowing first.

1. Both sets of parents, although I don't believe her parents truly understand the depth of what happened. I get the feeling that they (especially her mother) are trying to rug sweep, minimize, and blame me. I've also told a handful of people in my family and inner circle of friends (four people total).
2. I have come to the conclusion that I will expose the A to the OBS, but have not figured out how, yet. We have not told our children.
3. She deleted AP's contact info and deleted him from WWF and Instagram.
...

New update stemming from yesterday:

We went out walking last night (as is our daily custom), and when we got back home, she asked me if it would be alright for her to contact some guy on Words with Friends to tell him Merry Christmas. Given that she agreed to not use the chat feature of the game and only play the game from now on, I was taken aback by her request and looked at her funny.

She said he was a nice guy who lives in Ireland and that he even suggested that our 14yo daughter (who plays the game, too) change her username to help with online security.

This was a pretty significant trigger to me, and I just looked at her with disbelief and simply said, "I guess so. Thanks for thinking of me..." and then we went inside.

We hung out with the kids for the evening and then retired to bed. I was in bed for about five or ten minutes before she came into the bedroom, and the entire time my heart was pounding in my chest. It was a serious adrenaline dump going on.

When she came in, I couldn't even face her, so she snuggled behind me and asked if everything was OK (insert eye roll on my part). I told her it wasn't. She knew what the problem was and said she wasn't going to contact him and that she was sorry for asking. She said she realized how bad it looked as soon as she asked me, especially given that she had agreed not to message people within the game.

I told her what was going on in my head all evening long (who is this guy? How does she know he's from Ireland? Why does she want to wish some strange guy on an internet game Merry Christmas? How does he even know our daughter is on the game? I thought she agreed not to chat? Why does she think he's a "good guy?" Why haven't I seen any chat history with him?)

She said all the chatting was from the summertime, not since D-day, and that she's been good since then. I told her I was emotionally spent from hours of playing all this in my head and then rolled over and tried to go to sleep.

She got up, left the room for about 20 minutes, and then came back in.

Man, sometimes I wonder.

I'm sorry to say this, and especially on Christmas Day, but man, sometimes I wonder about the new betrayed husbands on this forum. Why are you just letting her do this?

Merry Christmas.

We talked yesterday at length, and she said she went out on the couch and cried and prayed and that she didn't (and wouldn't) contact the guy.

She seemed pretty broken up about it. Of course, I can take that a couple different ways:

1. She realized how much it hurt me by asking to contact the guy (btw, just in case anyone was wondering or confused...he is not the AP) when she already said she wouldn't chat with anyone.

2. Something's afoot and she is self-aware enough to know she's playing with fire (or at least tempted to continue playing with fire).

1987, your wife is never going to take this seriously if YOU don't take this seriously. I don't understand why you would agree to something so destructive to your marriage? Do you actually CARE about your marriage? Because I can't tell. You do understand that opposite sex friendships are how affairs begin right? Do you want to have a marriage? If so, you need to take this much more seriously.

I am also very concerned that your exposures have not been done. you asked us about exposing to the OM's wife a couple of weeks ago and it still has not been done? It takes about 24 hours for a person with minimal internet skills to locate someone and epxose to them. Is there a reason why this hasn't been done?

PLEASE get this done pronto, in addition to exposure to your children so you can move onto next steps. Dragging your feet is only dragging out your recovery.

This isn't surprising. Exposing an affair is the FIRST step towards recovery and when you don't expose an affair, you leave the window wide open for the WS to remain wayward and foggy.

This step cannot be skipped. It is THAT important.

You are to tell the children alone, without your WW's involvement and without warning her beforehand.

You understand that, right?

What gets me is why "the conditions that made the affair possible" have not been voluntarily eliminated. She should not be on any social media at all, and really, she should not have a smart phone. Have she made any attempt to find a push-button phone, or perhaps to come off a call plan, and have a cash sim card with no data added? Has anything like this even been considered?

I would even go so far as to say she shouldn't have a phone. If you have a landline to your house, she could manage perfect well with that - that's what I do, and I've never had an affair. I have a mobile phone that I do not use. She should also agree readily to give up Internet use unless you are in the room with her. It really is no use her crying and praying that she can give up this addiction. if she wants to save your marriage, she needs to give up the sources of the addiction.

You need to discuss this with her, today. I can't believe that she is openly contacting these men after what she's already done, and the most you are doing is posting here about it, and wringing your hands.

No, I don't. I've never gone through this before. D-day was three months ago and I'm still trying my best to understand it all.

You guys rolling your eyes at me doesn't help me.

We understand that you are new to this, but a very early post to your thread told you to do something that we tell everyone:

The Exposure 101 thread has information about the importance of telling your children. It is part of the "Start Here" thread that is pinned at the head of this forum, and it is linked as part of MelodyLane's signature (she has posted to you). It explains that you need to be the one to do this. Your spouse will not readily agree to do this. If they agree at all, they will want the exposure to be done in such a way that their reputation is protected; e.g. by persuading you to say that you, their parents, have "had some problems".

Dr Harley says that YOU need to tell the children, and all them how the affair affects you. He says "An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behaviour"

It is important that you tell the children, today.

My friend, we are not rolling our eyes at you!! We are doing this:

Read this and listen to the clips in here.
Exposing to Children

Also, what have you done to find the OM's BW?

Nobody is rolling their eyes at you. However we cannot and will not pat your back when you're in the path of the oncoming train, and we can see you're going to get hit, again!

Unfortunately BSs, especially BHs, want to cherry pick through the program and avoid rocking the boat with their WW's. That won't work. We know because we see it all of the time.

Our goal isn't to avoid making your wife angry but it is to save your marriage. Sometimes being blunt with a BS who is making foggy rationalizations for why they don't "really" need to follow each step is the only way.

Really hope you wrapped up your exposures today!

I scoured facebook...no dice. My W told me a few years ago that the AP wasn't on facebook due to security reasons with his job at the USCG, and I can only assume his W isn't on it, either.

I googled her name trying to find a home phone number. Aside from having to pay random sites for that info, there's nothing available.

My in-laws are (or have been) friendly with the AP's family for decades. Other than getting contact info from them (my in-laws), I don't know how to proceed at this point. I'm also pretty sure the AP has a pretty tight lid on all forms of communication with respect to his household (according to my W), so I'm not sure what'd I do if I got the landline number and he had all calls forwarded to his cell phone. I just don't know how to proceed right now, but I am committed to telling the OBS.

AFA my kids are concerned, I am devising a plan to tell them.

I am not sure how to do all this, folks. I don't want to do anything wrong and mess it all up. You must understand this, right?

Yes get the information for the OM's BW from your in-laws. Have they been told about the affair? Are they supportive of your marriage?

Did you read the thread on exposing to children

I just told our five children about the affair. My wife was at my side. After explaining what happened (obviously no sordid details) and why it was bad, the only thing my sobbing wife said was, "Don't do it, kids. It's not worth it" and apologizing for not being the mother and wife she pretended to be to all of us.

She has locked herself in our bedroom now, so I'm here posting about it.

AFA my in-laws, yes, they know about the affair. I've said so a few times thus far here. I even talked to my FIL about the concept of disclosing the A to the OBS and he was at least mildly receptive.

I must say this again, however: it is my belief that the AP is very much in control over all forms of communication into and out of his immediate family. At this point, I have no idea how to contact the OBS without his involvement. He is also potentially very dangerous, given what my wife has said about his capabilities. The morning of D-day (9/11/16), she texted him to say I was on their trail, and he made a veiled threat directed at me.

Also, unfortunately, I no longer have any evidence of the affair. About a month after D-day, I was sick of seeing it and between my wife and I, we permanently deleted everything (but a few pictures of her that she sent him) regarding the affair.

Obviously this means I will not be able to furnish any hard evidence for the OBS and the AP can deny everything if she confronts him (if I can even get to her first).

Any suggestions?

I would call his home phone disguising your # with *67 at a time you think she would answer. As far as evidence, your wife's confession is all the evidence you need. Your wife can vouch for the affair so he can't deny it.

Another idea is to contact her mother or sisters via facebook and enlist their help in telling the wife. You could tell them about the affair and ask them to get her to call you.

1987, I would move fast and get the exposure to the OM's W done asap. You really need to get this all done so you can move onto next steps. It is not a good idea to drag this all out.

Good for you getting this done. We know it was hard but it truly is the best thing for your marriage.

In addition to MelodyLane'S suggestion since your in-laws knows his family get the OM's BW's contact information from your in-laws and call her. You must try and get through and keep trying until you make contact with her. Does your in-laws have contact information for the BW's family?

I have no idea if my in-laws have the contact info for the OBS' family (her parents/etc.).

BTW, in order to recover some evidence, I downloaded the free version of Dr. Fone and scanned my wife's phone with it, hoping to retrieve the texts from D-day to and from the AP. I'm disappointed in that the only things Dr. Fone seemed to do is find what's on her phone right now. Well, thanks a bunch, I have her phone and already know what's on it right now!

Anybody have any thoughts on recovery of (at least) the texts from D-day?

What kind of phone is it?

Why do you need to retrieve the information when you have your wife's confession?

That's good that you told your kids. It may be hard to believe, but it is a very good sign that your W was upset. It's not so fun when your activities are exposed to the light of day and you see how much your actions impact your family.

I would wrap this up, like ML said. Do not drag this out any longer. I had ZERO resources to find the OWH and I made it happen. If you want to get in touch with her, you will find a way.

Put the spyware issue to the side. You don't need anymore evidence to expose to OMBW. And that's what you need to focus on. Don't complicate things by adding in unnecessary steps

I also commend you on telling the kids. Good job.

Quick update:

1. My FIL appears to be giving me his blessing on contacting the OBS and may be attempting to gather contact info on my behalf.

As I said earlier, there is nothing on the web about the AP's family. No contact information, no facebook, nothing. It must be because of the AP's job with the USCG.

2. My W talked to our two oldest daughters (without informing me) and "clarified" that she never had physical relations with the AP. She says she didn't want our daughters thinking their mother had sex with someone other than their father. I only found out about her discussions because our oldest daughter (16) told me, and then I approached my wife, asking her about the conversations.

I don't like the fact that she did that.

You know that this was a PA, right? I saw someone bring that up at the start of the thread but I don't see an acknowledgement that you read that post.

Have you contacted the OM's BW yet?

I posted this to you on Monday, and, like the post that told you that they have definitely had full sex, it wasn't acknowledged.

A lot of your posts have been to say "here's where I am now". You have a serious problem with failing to address the advice that has been given to you. We have given you certain actions to carry out, and what you have tended to post is "here's where I am now" - updating us on your feelings, but failing to focus on the actions that you have been instructed to carry out.

Reading this thread again from the beginning, it seems obvious to me that your wife has been "sexting" several men, and that she is addicted to using social media sites to take part in this behaviour. The man from Ireland was not by some coincidence the only other man she has ever chatted with (apart from OM with whom she has had sex). He was one of a number of people with whom she's been having online sexual relationships.

And the crying, and praying to God that she won't contact men on Words with Friends?

That is done to placate you, and you are falling for it. The fact is that your wife has been having online sexual relationships for some time, and she is probably still having them. You need to act on that basis, and get her OFF social media, because otherwise, you don't have a marriage.

Well...I know that I don't know either way. She swears up and down it never got physical, but I can say while I have taken her word for it, I believe it was quite possibly physical.

She is off WWF. I've told her in the last week that she obviously has a problem with "friends" who are the opposite sex.

I have seen many PMs between her and online guys via WWF, and they were definitely personal and even over the line IMO, but none were sexual. This isn't saying she doesn't have an issue, I'm just telling you what I know.

AFA contacting the OBS, there is NO INFORMATION about that family on the 'net. I am at a standstill regarding contact info. As I said earlier, my FIL said he'd try to find a home phone or address for the OBS, because he's been friends with the AP's family for 30 years.

How do you know she is off WWF? And how do you know that she isn't using other social media?

What do you mean by "personal and even over the line"? What kind of things was she talking about?

If you acknowledge that she might have an issue, you are being remarkably laid back about it. Doesn't it bother you that she has intimate relationships with men online?

She would talk about life with them. Nothing in particular, just chatting about likes and dislikes and general daily life stuff. I told her I didn't want her doing that anymore, and she agreed to abide by it. I believe it was over the line because there is no good reason to do that if you are married.

I don't believe she is still chatting with men online, hence her request on Christmas Eve. We had a big spat on Christmas Day over it (including one Christmas Eve where she stayed on the couch for a while crying). She knows I will not tolerate it anymore.

I am surreptitiously checking her phone two different ways (Dr. Fone and Webwatcher) and both have been coming up clean for the week that I've been using them. I will continue to monitor the phone.

And again, as far as the PA is concerned, there is no way to know for sure whether or not it happened without her admitting it. She vehemently denies it. I am rolling with her account of what did and did not happen, but that doesn't mean I am without suspicion.

Have you asked her to take a polygraph?

I am working on setting one up now.

Good.

This will help you come up with the questions to ask.
Polygraph Testing

I asked her a question last night:

Me: "If there was a way that you could prove to me that you didn't get physical with him, would you jump at the opportunity?"

Her: "I don't know how I could do that, but yes, I would. What do you have in mind?"

Me: "You could take a polygraph."

Her: "It hurts me to think that you still don't trust me and what I say, but if that's what you want me to do, I will. You know everything already, but I'll do it."

Unfortunately, a lot of WSs will initially agree (hoping that you will not follow through, which many do not) or sometimes they will agree and then trickle truth you some more hoping, again, that you will believe you finally have entire truth and not follow through.

The only way to be sure you have gotten the truth is to follow through. And I would set this up ASAP. These early steps need to get out of the way so that you can move on to recovery.

I have to tell you, I went back and re-read the history and I am about 99.9999% certain (as certain as you can be without a poly) that the A was a physical one. I have not seen a WS mother of small children do such things like send nude pics and driving cross country to see their OP and unless they were looking for a PA to happen, sorry to tell you.

Please just get this step done ASAP.

You may have to look into a PI to get the information on OMBW for you then.

Definitely we will all agree with you that ANY chatting with members of the OS on social media when you are married is over the line. However, I think the reason SugarCane was because you said this:


You seem to make a distinction between personal and over the line.

It may be uncomfortable to discuss these kinds of details but I really do think it's important to flush it out and I do agree with SugarCane's comments about your WW's chatting it up with other men... and I agree that the relationship with man from Ireland sounds like it IS another EA.

The thing that really stands out to me is that after your discovery of her first affair, her brazenly wanting to continue chatting with another man (regardless of whether you believe it is an EA or not) despite KNOWING the trouble this JUST got her into...That is more the behavior of a serial cheat. Not a one time, "oops, I was just talking to a coworker about my bad marriage and things spiraled out of control and I found myself in love."

This does not mean your M is not recoverable but additional steps DO need to be taken. Again, as SugarCane keeps bringing up, ALL social media would be extremely risky for your WW.

I know how hard it must be to hear these things. Believe me, I really do understand. But the worst thing we could do is ignore it and just let you get hit by more d-days down the road.

Susie,

I didn't intend for there to be a distinction as I wrote it. She was chatting about personal stuff, daily life stuff, and IMO there is no good reason to do that with the opposite sex if you are married. Even if it never progressed any further with any of them, it was still over the line.

I agee. Hire a PI. They will be able to get the information.

I also agree with the others that she needs to be off all social media since she has no boundaries. Dr. Harley states that all avenues that allowed the affair should be closed.

Do you know the county they live in? You can look on the county tax assessor's online site (most counties have them) and see if you can search records by name...if they own a home it will give you their address. Depending on what state they're in, you can also google the state and voter rolls, then search the name and get the address that way.

UPDATE

I finally found a phone number online that looked promising. After calling it, I spoke to the OBS' father. After introducing myself, I explained the situation to him and he seemed to indicate that his daughter already knew that something had happened with someone. He wasn't clear about it, but that's the impression he gave me.

Anyway, I left him my contact info and asked if he could pass it along to his daughter and hopefully she will see fit to contact me.

Did you ask him for her number?

He only offered to give her my contact information. I can understand why.

I guess she will call if she wants to.

1987, good for you!!! Hopefully her father gives her your contact information and she contacts you.

Good job for sticking with it and contacting him and I do hope she contacts you.

She contacted me!

Don't have much time right now, but suffice to day, my wife was special to the AP, just like all the other dozens of girls around the country he had chatted or hooked up with.

The OBS told me she knew something was going on between her H and my wife, but not exactly sure what. She even referred to my wife as "his girlfriend."

She said she is now planning on divorcing the AP due his infidelity over the course of their entire 18 year marriage.

Great job!!! I am glad you reached her. At least now she has the facts. No surprise that she was just one of many.

OK, so the OBS told me that her H has cheated on her at least ten times during their 18 year marriage. He's up the food chain in the USCG, so he travels a lot, and via hookup/dating sites, he had girls all over the country. The AP and OBS live in VA, but he had women in Denver, NJ, MS, MA, FL, etc., etc., etc.

The State of MS even sent him a letter requiring him to submit to a paternity test because his hookup got pregnant and was applying for welfare (the state wanted to know who the father of the child was).

The OBS told me my wife was on the AP's radar even before they got married (both my wife and I and the AP and OBS got married the same month in 1998). According to the OBS, the AP told her years ago that my wife called the AP before the wedding(s) and begged him not to get married to the OBS because she (my wife) was in love with him. I'm not sure how true that could be, because my wife and I had a GREAT courtship followed by years of honeymooning. Perhaps the AP simply lied about it. I asked my wife about it, and she denied it for the reasons I already stated. That part is quite bizarre. It must have been a lie told by the AP.

The OBS didn't know that her H and my wife actually had an affair. It was news to her. She was calm the entire time (except for a few times while relating her marital history to me) and simply said while she didn't know about this one, she wasn't surprised given her H's many offenses over the years. She said she knew something was going on with her H over the last year, but couldn't find out because he was getting pretty good at covering his tracks.

She said this was the final straw and now she's going to divorce him.

From what she said, she has an extensive collection of evidence from his adulterous history.

When I told her that my wife visited him in July while on a trip "to see family," she said, "Well, if he was alone with her, he didn't leave until he slept with her." She said her H is a sex addict and compulsive liar about everything, but he is very persuasive and got women all over to give him what he wanted.

All in all, we talked for about an hour. I was hoping to find out more information about the affair from her, but as I said, she didn't know anything specific about this one with my wife.

Do you think your WW hasn't told you everything? Did you tell the OMBW about MB? Do you know if she has told anyone else on her and her WH's family?

My WW has said that she's told me everything. My best guess is that she's telling me the truth, but...anything's possible.

No, I did not tell her about MB. It didn't even cross my mind.

When I spoke to her father, he seemed to not be surprised at all when I told him my wife had an affair with his SIL, so it's safe to say at least HER family knows about his infidelities.

Good job on finding and exposing to the OM's BW!

I would not count on them getting a D just yet. Oftentimes BS's will say that and then end up working on the M.

I wonder what my wife truly thinks about the AP, the affair, and what she did throughout the course of the affair now that she is aware that she was just one of many women this guy was chasing on the side.

Interestingly, when I mentioned to her a couple days ago that "it appears as though the cheater was cheating on the cheater," she made remarks about "them" (the AP and his wife).

"No," I said. "I'm talking about him and you."

If you feel you have all the information about the affair and you are unwilling to have her take a poly to confirm that (your choice), then you need to stop talking about the affair.

These kind of 'zingers' will deplete her lovebank for you. Unless that is your goal you need to STOP this.

Noted.

AFA the polygraph goes, I spoke to our police chief about it (I run our town's largest emergency services district), and found out how expensive they are ($750). Ouch. I still want to follow through with it, but it will take a little bit to scrape the extra money for one.

Quick update: A few days ago, my wife was visibly upset and said how she broke down and checked my phone because she wanted to see what the OBS and I were saying (texting). In the texts, the OBS mentioned a phone number from our state that the AP routinely calls and asked if it was my wife's number. It wasn't, and I texted back that I was reasonably sure my wife has maintained NC since D-day. I did, however, openly wonder via texting if it could be a "burner" phone.

My wife mentioned that comment in saying she was hurt that I said such a thing and that I could search the entire house and not find one (burner phone) because there isn't one. She also brought up being hurt about possibly having to take a polygraph. She was crying during all this and went out for a walk.

When she got back, she seemed to be in better spirits and told me she understood why I say and do the things I do, and that she brought it all on herself. She said she's with me for life and reiterated that she'll "never hurt you like that again."
....

I think I still want her to take a polygraph.

It was really unwise for you to have let her find those texts. If there ever was a burner phone, do you think you will ever find it now?

Why are you leaving traces of your conversations with OMW for your wife to find? Don't you understand the need for stealth on your part?

I don't believe there IS or has been a burner phone. I googled the number and it belonged to a business 50 miles away.

Besides, it was no mystery to my wife that I was talking to the OBS. I shared with my wife everything the OBS told me, including how the AP had cheated on his wife for the entirety of their marriage, and how he had women all over the country during his travels with the USCG. I even told my wife that she wasn't the only girl he had stashed on the side here in New England and that his plan to meet my wife in Boston last fall included him seeing this other girl, too.

Again, I didn't mind her seeing the few texts between me and the OBS. If anything, it showed her precisely what I think of her and her actions in an unvarnished way.

1987,

We all understand that you are hurt. The way to be happy and have a fantastic marriage though, is not by punishing your wife. Just get the facts, do a poly or not and then decide to move on and not bring up the affair ever, EVER again. People who don't follow the MB plan of just compensation and who keep holding the affair over their spouses head, end up with notoriously bad marriages.

If you need to vent come here!

Folks, I didn't complain about my wife to the OBS, either on the phone or via texts, so don't think that I attacked her. I simply handled business or answered questions with the OBS.

For instance, here are my texts with the OBS in their entirety:

"I've been busy talking to her (my wife) for the last hour. Her number is ***-***-****."

"She says they haven't contacted each other at all since September 11."

"I guess I believe her, but I wonder if that could be a burner phone."

"Have you called that number? I wonder if I should."

"I googled it (the number)." (I sent a screenshot of the results)

"(OBS), if you are willing, (my wife) would like to talk to you. Please let me know. Thank you."

"Believe me, (OBS), I understand what you are saying. This entire thing has shaken me to my core. I spent two months just trying to exist.

If you ever find out more about what happened between them, please tell me. I think (my wife) has told me everything, but after an entire year of lies and deceit, I don't know what's true anymore. She appears to be remorseful, but sometimes I question whether I really know/knew her. Sometimes I question everything.

Thank you for your time and openness yesterday. I prayed for your family in the immediate aftermath of disclosure and I will do so again."
....
That's it. That's what my wife saw from me. It was just honesty.

It sounds like you're going to do what you want regardless of our advice but for whatever it's worth I agree with the others.

Your W doesn't need to know anything about your contact w the OM's W except that you will be in touch with her and vice versa if there is any suspected contact. Period. Anything other than is negative.

It's a form of talking about the affair, it triggers your W to think about the OM, it clues her in to what you could be thinking or doing in terms of surveillance (burner phone). The entire episode is a lovebuster for you both. Lose lose lose.

There is NO benefit to sharing this kind of stuff with your W. That's why some posters are reading it as a form of punishing her. It doesn't really matter what the content of the messages are.

Holding off on the poly is just going to keep the affair fresh in your mind, so while I understand the financial constraints (I was in the situation myself at one point) but I would brainstorm and then brainstorm some more to figure out how to get it done sooner rather than later.