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Hi everyone. I found out about marriage builders 3 days ago but I've known about my husband's affair for three weeks. I gave him a link to this site in hopes it could help.
My husband's affair was/is with one of his employees and I've told him I need him to leave his job. I was willing to reluctantly accept that he needed to give a months notice because he is in management but he is still acting unsure about quitting. He called her and talked to her for 15 minutes behind my back a few days ago and of course said it was about work when I asked about the call. She tested him in the middle of the night last night and he told me about it and I thanked him for being honest. He has used about 50% more mobile data since I learned of the affair and they stopped talking on the phone and texting excessively so I suspect he is possibly snap chatting with her which he denies.
At this point I feel like if he will not give his notice at work I should ask him to leave until he makes his decision. I'm just wondering if that sounds reasonable? I also consider him an alcoholic and he has never respected my wish for him to stop drinking so maybe I'm fighting a losing battle anyway. I'm currently reading Surviving an Affair but if anyone has advice I'd appreciate it. Thanks
Me-47
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Hi Montgomery, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. I would FIRST expose the affair to everyone. Start with his workplace and expose to everyone else using the templates in my Exposure 101 thread.
Is the OW married? If so, have you exposed to her husband and family?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks for the reply MelodyLane. Yes, the OW is married with children at home but FWIW her and her husband sleep separately. I know this only because I went to a pool party at her house in August and when she gave me a tour of her home she made sure I knew it was her bedroom and her husband slept in the basement. I don't have her husband's phone number but I do know where they live so I might have to stop by their house or something. Thanks for the input. I'll review the exposure information right now.
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Thanks for the reply MelodyLane. Yes, the OW is married with children at home but FWIW her and her husband sleep separately. I know this only because I went to a pool party at her house in August and when she gave me a tour of her home she made sure I knew it was her bedroom and her husband slept in the basement. I don't have her husband's phone number but I do know where they live so I might have to stop by their house or something. Thanks for the input. I'll review the exposure information right now. So when do you plan to do the exposure and to the workplace? Also, have you been tested for STD/STI?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thanks for the reply MelodyLane. Yes, the OW is married with children at home but FWIW her and her husband sleep separately. I know this only because I went to a pool party at her house in August and when she gave me a tour of her home she made sure I knew it was her bedroom and her husband slept in the basement. I don't have her husband's phone number but I do know where they live so I might have to stop by their house or something. Thanks for the input. I'll review the exposure information right now. Good girl! I would start with an exposure to her husband and the workplace. The best exposures are a) comprehensive and b) done all on the same day to achieve a tsunami effect. The fact that the OW and her H sleep separately is not relevant to the situation; he is still her husband. I can see how she would say that to you, though, in the hopes you would repeat that lie to your husband. Most cheaters tell their adultery partners they don't sleep with their spouses.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks BrainHurts, Tuesday seems like the best day for the exposure.
I haven't been tested for std/sti yet but I know I need to so I will do that this week as well.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/01/17 09:07 PM.
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Thanks BrainHurts, Tuesday seems like the best day for the exposure.
I haven't been tested for std/sti yet but I know I need to so I will do that this week as well. Good!! Let us know so we can help you through it! You're doing the right thing. Also, since he refuses to end his affair you should make plans for Plan B. Have you read up on Plan B?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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... I gave him a link to this site in hopes it could help.... I would not bring this site back up and do not tell him you are posting here. He is wayward and you do not want to tip him off in advance to the advice and strategies you will receive here. If he sees your thread he will definitely try to stop you from following much of the advice you are given. Do not let him manipulate you out of acting on the advice you are given here, like exposure. Do not discuss anything (like exposure) with him in advance, that just gives him a chance to try to talk you out of it or go give his inaccurate side of the story to everyone before you act. (Also why you want to do exposure all at once.) Good luck!
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Thanks for the reply MelodyLane. Yes, the OW is married with children at home but FWIW her and her husband sleep separately. I know this only because I went to a pool party at her house in August and when she gave me a tour of her home she made sure I knew it was her bedroom and her husband slept in the basement. I don't have her husband's phone number but I do know where they live so I might have to stop by their house or something. Thanks for the input. I'll review the exposure information right now. Good girl! I would start with an exposure to her husband and the workplace. The best exposures are a) comprehensive and b) done all on the same day to achieve a tsunami effect. The fact that the OW and her H sleep separately is not relevant to the situation; he is still her husband. I can see how she would say that to you, though, in the hopes you would repeat that lie to your husband. Most cheaters tell their adultery partners they don't sleep with their spouses. Thanks for the support and insight MelodyLane. My husband and I went to her house together for the pool party and he says they were not in a relationship at that time but the phone records show they were regularly talking and texting. He actually hasn't admitted to anything physical and I have no evidence other than multiple regular and lengthy phone calls at all hours of the day and night.
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Thanks BrainHurts, Tuesday seems like the best day for the exposure.
I haven't been tested for std/sti yet but I know I need to so I will do that this week as well. Good!! Let us know so we can help you through it! You're doing the right thing. Also, since he refuses to end his affair you should make plans for Plan B. Have you read up on Plan B? I have read about plan B. I suppose that's the reason for my original post. When it became apparent that he didn't want to leave his job and it seemed like separating might be better for my own health until he will break all ties with her. My other dilemma is that I have no hard evidence of a physical relationship between them and he denies even kissing her. He told me yesterday he is going to put in a request for a transfer to a location across town where he wouldn't see her anymore. He is the major breadwinner right now as I only work part-time but I'm looking for a full-time job. Now I hesitate to out him at work because he could get fired although I believe they would probably just brush it under the rug anyway. FWIW He also agreed to get a new phone and not give her the number.
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... I gave him a link to this site in hopes it could help.... I would not bring this site back up and do not tell him you are posting here. He is wayward and you do not want to tip him off in advance to the advice and strategies you will receive here. If he sees your thread he will definitely try to stop you from following much of the advice you are given. Do not let him manipulate you out of acting on the advice you are given here, like exposure. Do not discuss anything (like exposure) with him in advance, that just gives him a chance to try to talk you out of it or go give his inaccurate side of the story to everyone before you act. (Also why you want to do exposure all at once.) Good luck! Hi AnyWife, That thought crossed my mind when I posted here. I haven't mentioned this site anymore but he knows I'm reading Surviving an Affair. I noticed that to get to the forum you have to seek it out so hopefully he doesn't notice it. Thanks for thinking of me. ETA: Just to clarify I gave him the link to the main site but not the forum.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/03/17 09:30 AM.
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Thanks BrainHurts, Tuesday seems like the best day for the exposure.
I haven't been tested for std/sti yet but I know I need to so I will do that this week as well. Good!! Let us know so we can help you through it! You're doing the right thing. Also, since he refuses to end his affair you should make plans for Plan B. Have you read up on Plan B? I have read about plan B. I suppose that's the reason for my original post. When it became apparent that he didn't want to leave his job and it seemed like separating might be better for my own health until he will break all ties with her. My other dilemma is that I have no hard evidence of a physical relationship between them and he denies even kissing her. He told me yesterday he is going to put in a request for a transfer to a location across town where he wouldn't see her anymore. He is the major breadwinner right now as I only work part-time but I'm looking for a full-time job. Now I hesitate to out him at work because he could get fired although I believe they would probably just brush it under the rug anyway. FWIW He also agreed to get a new phone and not give her the number. what is your evidence? I would take his phone and get the evidence even if you have to buy a text retreiver. You told us in the initial thread he was having an affair and now you say you have no evidence. I am confused. Secondly, did you read the recommendations about workplace exposure in the exposure thread? His job will be of no use to you if you are divorced and competing with the OW for his income.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks BrainHurts, Tuesday seems like the best day for the exposure.
I haven't been tested for std/sti yet but I know I need to so I will do that this week as well. Good!! Let us know so we can help you through it! You're doing the right thing. Also, since he refuses to end his affair you should make plans for Plan B. Have you read up on Plan B? I have read about plan B. I suppose that's the reason for my original post. When it became apparent that he didn't want to leave his job and it seemed like separating might be better for my own health until he will break all ties with her. My other dilemma is that I have no hard evidence of a physical relationship between them and he denies even kissing her. He told me yesterday he is going to put in a request for a transfer to a location across town where he wouldn't see her anymore. He is the major breadwinner right now as I only work part-time but I'm looking for a full-time job. Now I hesitate to out him at work because he could get fired although I believe they would probably just brush it under the rug anyway. FWIW He also agreed to get a new phone and not give her the number. what is your evidence? I would take his phone and get the evidence even if you have to buy a text retreiver. You told us in the initial thread he was having an affair and now you say you have no evidence. I am confused. Secondly, did you read the recommendations about workplace exposure in the exposure thread? His job will be of no use to you if you are divorced and competing with the OW for his income. Yes, I read it but I will re-read it again. Maybe I'm just being a coward or confused. The only evidence I have is cell phone records showing how often they were calling and texting but I don't know the content of the conversations. He hasn't admitted to anything other than talking to her. I guess I need to find a text retriever. Thanks for the tip MelodyLane.
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You need a text retriever. IIWY I'd see about getting a PI to follow him today. If he offered to change jobs that quickly, there is more going on than you know.
Have you checked the bank and credit card records?
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Yes, I read it but I will re-read it again. Maybe I'm just being a coward or confused. The only evidence I have is cell phone records showing how often they were calling and texting but I don't know the content of the conversations. He hasn't admitted to anything other than talking to her. I guess I need to find a text retriever. Thanks for the tip MelodyLane. Call and text logs are not evidence of an affair. What you need is the content. You can get this by looking on his phone, reading the texts and forwarding them to yourself.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[Thanks for the support and insight MelodyLane. My husband and I went to her house together for the pool party and he says they were not in a relationship at that time I am even more confused now. Did he or did he not admit to an affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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He admits to an affair but refuses to give me any details. I will have to get the text retriever for details. I probably should have done that first but I didn't know about marriage builders when I confronted him. The length, volume and time of the calls in combination with 30+ text messages in a one twelve hour period alone and middle of the night messaging seemed like adequate evidence before I found this site.
Me-47
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You need a text retriever. IIWY I'd see about getting a PI to follow him today. If he offered to change jobs that quickly, there is more going on than you know.
Have you checked the bank and credit card records? He only agreed to request a transfer because I told him I needed him to do that to save our marriage. The bank account and credit cards look fine but he has cash from doing side work with his brother. She lives right by their work so they could easily go to her house while her husband is at work and her kids in school. She works three 12 hour shifts so I think they probably spend time together at her house on her off days.
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Hi Montgomery.
Did you read the full Exposure 101 thread posted in MelodyLane's signature? I saw that you said Tuesday would be a good day for exposure, but I am concerned that it is Tuesday and you don't seem to be planning to do a full and comprehensive exposure. A halfway exposure will be far less effective. The Exposure 101 thread will give you the information you need on how to properly expose. You need to be making a list of people to expose to both on your side as well as the OW's side.
I would be more concerned about a drawn out affair or divorce to deal with than your WH losing his job. I know it is scary to think about, but your WH can find a new job if it comes to that. You need to think long term here and not just how scary that prospect is in the moment. Here are the long term options if he stays at that employer and you never expose: 1) he continues the A and continues to lie and gaslight you about the it (as he is already doing btw), 2) he doesn't continue the A but you really never know because he works with OW every day anyway (this will drive you equally insane and make recovery impossible), 3) he eventually leaves you for OW and they both stay at the employer, and you have to compete with OW for any portion of his ongoing salary. If you think there is an option 4) he stays at his job, ends the A, and you recover and have a happy marriage...we can assure you by experience that this will *never* happen as long as he continues to work with OW. Unless OW decides to quit on her own and move far away, which is unlikely to happen.
So you can see that exposing to the workplace is absolutely necessary. The only reason not to is if he agrees to leave that job on his own. You have graciously given him that opportunity and he has failed yet to do it. I would also think long and hard about a 'transfer' as he needs to have NO CONTACT FOR LIFE with the OW. Can he transfer and have no contact for life? Will he be far far away from her and never have the possibility of running into her? If you cannot answer yes to that question, I would make it a requirement that he find a new job altogether.
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He admits to an affair but refuses to give me any details. I will have to get the text retriever for details. I probably should have done that first but I didn't know about marriage builders when I confronted him. The length, volume and time of the calls in combination with 30+ text messages in a one twelve hour period alone and middle of the night messaging seemed like adequate evidence before I found this site. I would put spyware on his phone and also a VAR in his car to get more solid evidence. His admission is solid evidence, however I am confused as to what he actually admitted to here... If you don't get more information within a day or two after doing this, I would consider hiring a PI to follow him. It should be easy to get information if they are hooking up at the OW's house. Meanwhile make a full list of who you will be exposing to. Go to OW's facebook page and copy her friends list so you have that ready too.
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FWIW He also agreed to get a new phone and not give her the number. Its really worth nothing. He is gaslighting you about the nature of his affair with her, continuing to contact her behind your back, and refusing to leave a job where he works with her daily. His agreement to buy a new phone means absolutely nothing. He can easily have a second affair phone to call her on, that you do not have records of. This is pretty standard affair procedure. And he really doesn't need any of that because he works with her and sees her everyday.
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I have read about plan B. I suppose that's the reason for my original post. When it became apparent that he didn't want to leave his job and it seemed like separating might be better for my own health until he will break all ties with her. My other dilemma is that I have no hard evidence of a physical relationship between them and he denies even kissing her. He told me yesterday he is going to put in a request for a transfer to a location across town where he wouldn't see her anymore. He is the major breadwinner right now as I only work part-time but I'm looking for a full-time job. Now I hesitate to out him at work because he could get fired although I believe they would probably just brush it under the rug anyway. FWIW He also agreed to get a new phone and not give her the number. You really cannot let fear and emotions run the show here. You do have an opportunity to end this affair and recover your marriage, if you expose correctly (and this includes exposing to their workplace) and give him a list of requirements by which you will stay in the marriage. In other words, if YOU take control here. If you make decisions based on fear and emotion, your chance of recovering your marriage will be LESS and it will also make you look less attractive. It will also cause you greater suffering in the end. Step 1 here is to kill the affair through exposure.
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Thanks unwritten, I appreciate you, MelodyLane, apples123, AnyWife and BrainHurts all taking the time to help me through this traumatic experience more than you know.
Since I failed today I'm regrouping and here is my updated plan:
1. Find and use a text retriever to obtain detailed evidence.
2. Come up with an exposure plan and list.
3. Expose the affair Thursday while my husband is traveling and out of the office.
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Thats a great plan Montgomery!
Please keep coming here for advice if you have questions.
I just want to point out that traveling jobs are very destructive to marriages, and also create affair friendly situations. This is another reason your WH will need to leave this job. You cannot build or maintain a great marriage, or recover from an affair, under these circumstances.
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Thanks unwritten, he usually doesn't have to travel overnight and this is a day trip where he will supposedly be going somewhere a couple hours drive away but coming back the same day. I do wonder if he is really planning to spend the day with the OW though. When he was out of town for several nights in October and November (which is unusual) he was having multiple hour long conversations with her.
I've already started making my exposure list.
Honestly I'm too the point where the stress is so great that I just want to get this over with even if he leaves me!!!
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/03/17 02:32 PM.
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I'm not sure if it matters or changes anything but I work for the same company but a different location as both of them so hopefully I won't be jeopardizing my own job in any way. I honestly don't care but it's just a weird situation.
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I can't imagine you would jeopardize your own job. But you may want to leave anyway as the job itself will likely be a trigger to you. Especially if the OW stays working there too.
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Thanks unwritten, he usually doesn't have to travel overnight and this is a day trip where he will supposedly be going somewhere a couple hours drive away but coming back the same day. I do wonder if he is really planning to spend the day with the OW though. When he was out of town for several nights in October and November (which is unusual) he was having multiple hour long conversations with her.
I've already started making my exposure list.
Honestly I'm too the point where the stress is so great that I just want to get this over with even if he leaves me!!! Can you hire a PI to follow him for this day?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Also, I guess I haven't heard of it as a 'text retriever' in the past, so I am concerned that will only pull up text information and you had said the records show them texting less (because he knows you are on to him). Can you put a keylogger on his tablet, computer, etc. or a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car to capture phone calls? Can you hire a PI to follow him tomorrow or even Thursday when he leaves to go out of town, in case he does pick up the OW or rendezvous with her for the day instead?
The quicker you get the evidence the sooner you can get the exposure done.
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BrainHurts and unwritten, I can check into a PI. I have absolutely no experience with this but I'll definitely research it. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Here, this might help. Private Investigators
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thanks so much BrainHurts. I sent an email to have someone contact me from the link you posted. I talked with my husband further and he claims it was 'only' an emotional affair. Part of me feels guilty for what I'm about to do but I know it must be done and it's better to have hard evidence. I will definitely let you all know what comes of the PI Investigation. I talked to him about transparency with the phone etc and he says he doesn't want to live that way so that is yet another red flag that he isn't being completely honest.
Me-47
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Good let us know how it goes. You're correct that his reluctance to be transparent, is a huge red flag.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Also, stop talking to him about the affair so you can get the evidence without tipping him off. The more suspicious you are the more careful he will be.
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You're so right BrainHurts-red flags are everywhere!
I started thinking that myself last night unwritten. Today I haven't talked about her or the affair at all.
A brief update, I spoke with two private investigators today so now I just need to pick one and get the ball rolling which means I need to find a way to pay the down payment without my husband knowing. It shouldn't be too hard because I have excellent credit but I think I might need to get a post office box temporarily too.
I figured out the OW's work schedule and I believe from checking old phone records I've pinpointed the days and time window that they are getting together.
I also learned today that my husband closed out our joint savings account unbeknownst to me so technically at this point I have no savings. He tried to act like it was a bank error. We are supposed to go in the morning when the bank opens to get my name back on the account. I'm trying to act unphased throughout all of this!
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You are doing great! When do you plan to have the PI follow him? Where are you at with spyware on his phone or a VAR in his car? These are things you could do today.
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By 'closed out' do you mean he withdrew the money?
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I was very concerned about that as well. There is more to this story than calls and texts.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Unwritten and apples123, I found out he closed our joint savings account over a year ago and put all the money into a new account in his name only.
BrainHurts, I hired a PI and after my husband became mentally/emotionally/psychologically abusive about the bank account and I started questioning if it was even worth it to spend the money on obtaining solid evidence if that's the way he is going to treat me. The money is now back in both of our names and there is $2,000 dollars more than when he closed the original account and opened a new one. He said it happened because we lost the account register and he didn't want someone finding it and having access to our account. I'm not sure if I believe that story.
The PI has his retainer and is just waiting for the green light from me.
If I decide to continue to try to save my marriage (in light of his recent abuse) I thought about talking to the OW's husband about the situation and seeing if he would be willing to help me by installing a hidden fake smoke detector camera in the hall outside her bedroom.
He was extremely hurtful the day of the bank incident and he continues to gaslight and engage in other narcissistic type abuse. I've put up with that and his alcoholism for close to two decades but now that there is infinitely thrown in the mix his other behaviors have escalated and I'm just not sure *if I want to try to save this marriage anymore*.
Thanks to all who have helped me. I'm praying for guidance, wisdom and clarity.
I will update this when I decide what I want to do.
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Well I got everything set up and ready to go for this week. I pinpointed the days and time frame that I believe my husband and the OW are getting together. Since I'm going to be in a three hour long interview one day this week and it happens to be on the OW's day off I'm pretty sure they will have a false sense of security and not be able to resist a rendezvous.
I went through the phone records further and even though the relationship was supposed to be over as of mid December I can see where on the OW's days off my husband has an unusual lack of any phone calls or texts for a couple hours during the late morning to early afternoon on those days. Hopefully this investigation will provide the hard evidence I need to move forward with the exposure.
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The PI is following my WH tomorrow. I will be tied up in a long job interview so I figured it would give him a false sense of security. I feel like this is the right choice.
I also have a GPS tracker but so far I can't find the OBD port in WH's car! I've been trying to install it for a few days but with limited time (when he is showering) I haven't succeeded yet. His car has some after market modifications so the installer I spoke with said it possibly has something plugged into it already or additional materials are covering it.
Hopefully I'll get some hard evidence tomorrow. If not I'm going to try to find a voice activated recorder next. I've been doing well not mentioning the affair. This is very hard but necessary I know and I do feel relieved that the PI will be watching him while I'm in the interview.
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Good job! We will be standing by!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The PI followed my husband today. I wasn't able to get the GPS tracker on his car due to after market modifications. He arrived at work at @9:30. We had intimate relations before he went in. He showered beforehand and didn't get to wash himself thoroughly because I was around. We spoke on the phone at 12:45 before I went into the three hour long interview. I got out a little early at 15:30. I texted the PI who informed me that my husband left work at 13:15 and never returned. The PI went to the OW home and neither her or my husband were there. The OW's teenage daughter came home and opened the garage at 14:30 and it was empty. I believe my husband and the OW met at a motel because he never showed back up at work. The PI lost him because he drives really fast. The PI firm is getting a different GPS unit that doesn't require an OBD port for next week so we can track him. He lied to me when I texted him at 15:30 and said he was about to leave work but the PI was there and he left over two hours earlier and didn't go back. It took him over 15 minutes to call me back when I got out of the interview. That's been the norm lately where he has been too busy for me and one of the issues that originally made me suspicious. I'm about 99.9% sure that he met her somewhere today but I think the missing piece is the GPS tracker. If he goes out drinking with his friends and leaves his car at home this weekend I hope I can find the OBD port but if not then next week I should have one that works without that capacity. The hardest part is acting like I don't suspect anything. This really hurts.
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For the record I just wanted to add that I've inadvertently driven my husband and his mistress underground. I discovered Marriage Builders 2.5-3 weeks after I suspected there was an extramarital affair and during that time I made some mistakes because I didn't know any better. They have been communicating via some messaging app since I discovered their excessive talking and texting and now they are even being very cautious about when and where they meet. I'm spending thousands of dollars to get hard evidence but it's worth it because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm being lied to each and everyday. I truly hope I can save my marriage because I love my husband and I've invested years in this marriage but no matter the outcome in the end I will at least know that I'm not insane which has been what my WH has been trying to convince me of for over a year. If I had one word of wisdom to pass on it is to follow your intuition and get the evidence!!!
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I'm a disaster. I sometimes wonder what the heck I'm even doing. I've already lost ten pounds because this whole situation literally makes me sick at my stomach. I want so much to confront him right now but I know it will just make it harder to get the evidence I need. All of his actions just prove he is trying to keep me appeased enough to get by with carrying on this affair. I already know he is an addict so it's no surprise he is now addicted to carrying on a secret life. Hopefully I'll sleep ok tonight and wake up with more resilience and determination tomorrow. He's drinking and smoking pot with his brother downstairs right now and after ( probably) spending hours with his lover this afternoon he as always could care less about me. I suppose I would care more about salvaging this relationship if I felt like he could or would change but as it stands now I feel like I'm not being treated with the least bit of care or consideration so I'm having a hard time fighting alone to save this marriage. Sorry everyone. I'm just so conflicted, hurt and discouraged atm.
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You have no reason to be sorry. This is a devastating situation to go through. You need to get the evidence asap so you can expose and go into a Plan B if needed, before you compromise your health more than it already has been.
Were you ever able to put spyware on his phone? Or put a VAR in his car? These are things that will not break the bank and you can do today.
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Some people get the GPS from Brick house security with a 5 day battery and magnetic case.
Hang in there take it one day at a time and see your doctor for ADs if you need help managing your feelings.
Last edited by apples123; 01/13/17 11:02 PM.
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I agree, you have nothing to be sorry for. So when will be the next time that the PI will follow him?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thanks for the replies unwritten, apples123 and BrainHurts. I'm already on an antidepressant. I started on one last spring when I began having trouble sleeping and suspecting my WH was addicted to pornography or had an online relationship. In hindsight I can see where the relationship has been plagued by neglect for quite some time.
The PI said today that they could order me a different GPS and I could pick it up next week. We haven't set up the next surveillance date yet. I think I will have to make up something that I have to for Wednesday or Friday so WH and the OW feel safe to meet again. I definitely need evidence asap.
I spent time going to different stores in town this past Thursday trying to find VARS but it looks like I will have to order one online.
I haven't done anything with the phone yet because he protects it more than the family jewels but I know it would be a gold mine.
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Keep working on getting the phone accessed or purchasing a VAR. Can you order one Amazon Prime? This could give you solid evidence within a day.
Do you have your exposure ready to go?
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Did you try Staples or a similar store? The Staples in my area has VAR's available for pickup, you can check the online site for 1 hr pickup.
I wouldn't put this off any longer.
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I got one from Radio Shack.
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Unwritten, SusieQ and apples123,
I will look at staples and radio shack for a VAR on Monday. If I order from Amazon my husband will notice.
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I do have my exposure list ready and a weebly account for the evidence.
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I would also start preparing for Plan B. Have you read about Plan B? If your WH upon exposure is willing to end his affair and agree to ALL EP's and recovery items you give him, you may not need it. But I have a feeling it will not be this easy. At this point you have overextended your Plan A and it is affecting your health so you need to be prepared to go into a dark Plan B if it comes to that.
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I completely agree unwritten. I'll read up more on plan B. Thank you.
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I completely agree unwritten. I'll read up more on plan B. Thank you. You should go into Plan B if he won't leave that job. That is the only way this will ever work.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thanks MelodyLane and BrainHurts. I've been reading the Plan B thread.
I got the GPS installed today when my husband left to meet his brother. You can see it sticking down a little and it has flashing lights so I covered it with black cold weather resistant electrical tape. Let's hope it works and he doesn't notice it.
I'm getting the VAR tomorrow.
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I have the VAR installed. I was sitting at home waiting for my WH to get back home and I thought what the heck I'll just drive to staples. I bought the VAR and industrial strength Velcro and put it under the drivers seat. I noticed the electric tape was coming off the GPS so I retaped it better. I'm nervous about him finding the spyware but I have nothing to lose at this point.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/15/17 02:25 PM.
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Great job! I don't think it will take you long to get the evidence.
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Good job Montgomery!
Fyi- there is usually a setting to turn the flashing lights off. Also turn off any beeps.
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Thanks for the support unwritten and Openeyes11. I took the GPS out because it was just too obvious because of it's size and in a place where his leg could easily bump it. I'm ordering a different smaller one from brickhouse security. It's a battery powered one that I can attach with a magnet under the seat.
The VAR is in his car and I'm hoping the industrial strength Velcro holds it in place!
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The new battery powered gps should arrive tomorrow. The VAR held in place today. I figured I should leave it for a few days to have the best chance of getting evidence. If I take it out tomorrow morning then I will potentially miss something. The OW works with my husband on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday so they probably talk at work on those days anyway.
Not that it matters but I found out today that the OW and her husband were swingers back in 2009. It makes since now why she wanted to watch pornography with me and my WH at her pool party this past summer. I figured she was just drunk. Now I'm not sure if her husband will care when he finds out but I guess that's not my problem.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/16/17 05:00 PM.
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You can also put Velcro under seat. Sticky back from craft store. Also might be good to swap out VARS daily. Download recordings onto computer without pressure.
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Oh yes openeyes, I did put the Velcro under the seat.
Is it normal to have changing feelings about wanting to save your marriage when dealing with infidelity?
I think this has depleted my love bank with my WH.
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Is it normal to have changing feelings about wanting to save your marriage when dealing with infidelity?
I think this has depleted my love bank with my WH. Yes, it is normal. It's a big lovebuster while at the same time, he is not meeting your ENs. We know how hard this is, you're doing great. Hang in there.
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What are some opinions about me sleeping in the spare bedroom while I continue to get evidence? It shouldn't be long now as I've got a different GPS and I'm listening to the VAR tomorrow. I've also arranged to have him followed by the PI again Friday. For now though I'm having a hard time trying to meet his emotional needs and deposit love when I feel so rejected and I'm the only one trying! He basically told me last night he didn't want to disrupt his life by leaving his job and today is barely speaking. The spare bedroom has an attached bathroom and that way I could get ready in privacy. All opinions welcome. Thanks
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I wrote my plan b letter today so I can have it ready for Friday. My brother has agreed to be our IM. I also put a call into the lawyer to get the ball rolling on a legal separation and I got the paperwork for a P.O. Box. The PI is following him Friday and WH thinks I'm going to see my daughter a couple hours drive away. It looks like I will be doing the exposure and plan b on the same day. It's probably not ideal but it seems like the best thing right now. I'm not doing too well and the weight is falling off rapidly. I'm recovered from anorexia so I can't play around with not being able to eat. So far the VAR hasn't revealed anything. The PI told me to be careful with it because in my state you can get a 5 year sentence for recording someone without their consent. There probably won't be much to report tomorrow but I will try to give an update Friday or Saturday.
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You have the right to surveilance of your own property. Besides, if you hear anything, you don't have to reveal your source
Hang in there. Going to Plan B and exposure at the same time is a great idea. Are you planning to pack his bags and leave the letter on top? Don't forget to change the locks.
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It looks like I will be doing the exposure and plan b on the same day.. Hi Montgomery, I am sorry this is so stressful. We all understand completely. I wanted to address the above comment. You should focus on one thing at a time. Expose the affair, then ask him to move out. AFTER he has moved out, you can a couple of weeks to go into Plan B. You can't really do plan b on the same day unless he moves out.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Just to clarify apples123 and MelodyLane, I was just thinking when I get word from the PI on Friday that they are together I would already have his bag packed and get the financial stuff taken care of and then call the locksmith. He had relations with me last Friday morning before he went to spend the afternoon with her while I was in a job interview. The PI has proof he wasn't at work when he told me he was and he called me within 10 minutes of her returning home (photographic evidence). I don't personally need further proof but I think he will still try to deny everything.
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Just to clarify apples123 and MelodyLane, I was just thinking when I get word from the PI on Friday that they are together I would already have his bag packed and get the financial stuff taken care of and then call the locksmith. He had relations with me last Friday morning before he went to spend the afternoon with her while I was in a job interview. The PI has proof he wasn't at work when he told me he was and he called me within 10 minutes of her returning home (photographic evidence). I don't personally need further proof but I think he will still try to deny everything. I gotcha. This is why it is so critical to get undeniable proof. There really isn't anything other than circumstantial evidence here. You need more and I am relieved you are getting it. Did you see hwat I said about Plan B? I like your plan of kicking him out, but you will have time to go into Plan B after your exposure. Do you know what Plan B entails?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I've got my exposure plan based on the link here. I was thinking I would make sure he isn't able to bother me and then expose just because I can't imagine dealing with him anymore for awhile. Maybe I should expose Friday while he is busy with the OW and then deal with kicking him out once he gets home or just tell him I know and not to come home.
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I've got my exposure plan based on the link here. I was thinking I would make sure he isn't able to bother me and then expose just because I can't imagine dealing with him anymore for awhile. Maybe I should expose Friday while he is busy with the OW and then deal with kicking him out once he gets home or just tell him I know and not to come home. It might be best for you to expose once you have the evidence and THEN ask him to leave. It is better to expose before you confront him because you don't want to give him and the OW a chance to pre-empt you and spin the story. Focus on those 2 things and then once you have him moved out, you can go into Plan B. Have you read Survivng an Affair? Do you understand how Plan B works? Here is a pretty good thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Oh no. Now I've created more of a mess. I called to check up on him at work and he got so mad he hung up on me and won't answer my calls or texts.
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Oh no. Now I've created more of a mess. I called to check up on him at work and he got so mad he hung up on me and won't answer my calls or texts. Just calm down and play it cool. Be very calm so he doesn't suspect your plan. CAn you remain calm?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes MelodyLane, I've read SAA. I think I can stay calm. I'll try my best. Thanks for all your help.
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Yes MelodyLane, I've read SAA. I think I can stay calm. I'll try my best. Thanks for all your help. We are here for you because we know how difficult what you are going through. Stay strategic and keep to your plan. You're doing great!
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thanks BrainHurts. That means a lot to me.
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I have the workplace exposure letter saved to my drafts in my email. I can't sleep so I figured I'd get some things done.
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WH came home last night and said he was too upset to talk to me and we would talk in the morning. In the morning he had to leave early to meet his dealer before work so no talking. He then said he would call when he got to work but didn't. When he finally called he was crying and said we would talk when he got home. When he got home he was on the phone to his brother within 15 minutes and went to meet him at a bar. He called me an hour later to say he was dropping some materials off to a job site and then he would be home to have dinner and talk. Close to two hours later I texted him that I was going to go ahead and eat (since it was 8:20). Finally he comes home at 9 pm and says we can talk after he drinks a few beers with his brother. In a calm and non-provoking tone I told him it was too bad us talking wasn't a priority. He said it is a priority but in my opinion his actions speak louder than words. This is beyond awful treatment in my opinion.
He also encouraged me earlier today to just spend the weekend out of town with my daughter. I'm glad I have the GPS installed and working and the PI following him tomorrow.
His behavior is so obvious and he is in so deep with the lies that he can't even recognize how hurtful and inconsiderate his behaviour has become.
Me-47
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His behavior is so obvious and he is in so deep with the lies that he can't even recognize how hurtful and inconsiderate his behaviour has become. You handled that perfectly. This is a terrible situation, but I want to assure you that you will feel much better once you have the evidence and expose it. Right now, you feel lost and hopeless. You won't feel that way very soon. Just hang in there, and keep us updated so we can support you.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane, I really appreciate it.
He was just alluding to divorce. I know he's confused and addicted to the affair. It's so sad to watch. He just keeps crying. Hopefully this will be over after tomorrow and when I have the evidence he will have to face reality. This is worse than watching someone go through withdrawals from drugs.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/19/17 10:38 PM.
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One quick question please. Tomorrow when I get word from the PI that he has evidence for me do I do the exposure first before letting my WH know that I know?
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One quick question please. Tomorrow when I get word from the PI that he has evidence for me do I do the exposure first before letting my WH know that I know? Yes, I would get the evidence in hand and then expose the affair. You will want to do it somewhere that you won't be disturbed and can complete all your exposures. Are you prepared to do this? Do you have a place you can go? Do you have your target list ready? Prioritized? Do you have your letters written?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Your husband can find out you know from others. That is the best way because it will catch him off guard.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I would put the OW's H and her family and friends at the top of your list. Do you have the contacts from her facebook friend list? For example, I would do it in this order:
1. OW's husband
2. her parents
3. her family and key friends
4. the employer
5. your husbands close family and friends
6. your family and friends
7. your children
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane. That helps a lot.
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Hang in there. You are doing well.
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Have You heard from the PI?
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Yes. WH and the OW are most likely together at my house as I type this. I still don't know how solid my evidence is by MB standards but the PI followed my husband until my husband caught on to someone following him and the PI backed off. The OW's car has been parked at a grocery store near my house for over three hours now and she lives 30 miles away so I'm pretty sure she isn't shopping.The PI is parked near her car to see if my husband drops her off. He has photographed her car in the parking lot. It's enough evidence for me. I also have the VAR in my bedroom closet in a coat pocket.
Me-47
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can you go home and catch them?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Is your husbands car at your house right now?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes, according to the GPS.
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can you go home and catch them? Yes, can you do this? Is there someone you can take with you?
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No, unfortunately I can't go home tonight. I'm a two hour drive away and exhausted from being up since 3 am. I'm just going to have to be satisfied with the GPS data, the photo of her car with the license plate visible at the store by my home and the report I get Monday from the PI. Hopefully I captured some good audio on the VAR as well. Thanks MelodyLane and SusieQ.
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Big mistake not to move mountains to not get there to
catch them. Even if you took a few hours nap to get there.
No family close by to help with the driving?
Why go so far away when time is critical?
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Can someone else catch them?
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Thanks for the replies goody2shoes and TheRoad. All of my family is two hours away from my home. I got more than enough evidence to satisfy me. I want to give a heartfelt big thank you to everyone who has posted so helpfully to me in this thread. Sadly I just don't think I have what it takes to continue this way but I will always be grateful for the help and support I received here.
Me-47
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Thanks for the replies goody2shoes and TheRoad. All of my family is two hours away from my home. I got more than enough evidence to satisfy me. I want to give a heartfelt big thank you to everyone who has posted so helpfully to me in this thread. Sadly I just don't think I have what it takes to continue this way but I will always be grateful for the help and support I received here. What is your final tally of evidence? What did the PI turn up?
BW
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His PA 2003-2006
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What is your plan from here Montgomery? Are you doing a thorough exposure now?
Please stick with this thread, we can help you through this no matter what path you take. Exposure should be the very first step though, followed by a long overdue Plan B. You will feel so much better once you are in Plan B.
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I'm listening to them having sex on the VAR right now. I will be picking up the report from the PI Monday. Thanks for the support SugarCane and Unwritten. I'm going to try my best but this is really hard.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/22/17 10:38 AM.
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Could you share your plan on exposure? Do you already have a list of people to expose to?
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I have my exposure list and letters written. Everything is ready to go. I'm sitting here listening to them having sex, telling each other they love each other and miss each other and talk about me.
Me-47
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I have my exposure list and letters written. Everything is ready to go. I'm sitting here listening to them having sex, telling each other they love each other and miss each other and talk about me. I'm so sorry, Montgomery. I know that must be excruciatingly painful. Where was this taking place - in your bed? This is from the VAR in your wardrobe? Where are you now, and where is he?
BW
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Montgomery-
You are doing great, even though this is such a terrible thing to have to deal with. Good job getting evidence. Big hugs to you. Hang in until you can expose and get to the peace of Plan B.
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SugarCane and DidntQuit, they were in our bed. I put the VAR in my coat pocket in the closet. I've listened to over an hour of them so far. They were also doing cocaine and my husband was having trouble performing because of it! The lies and deceit are unreal.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/22/17 11:35 AM.
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Listening to my WH and the OW both laughing about how they didn't care if I came home and caught them was probably the worst part.
Me-47
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I am so sorry, Montgomery. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane.
I feel like the door to my heart has been closed, deadbolted and barricaded shut. I literally started vomiting bile (because my stomach is empty) after listening to that tape and I never puke. I know this might not go over well here on a forum for saving marriages but I'm questioning if I really want to be with him after all of this. Hearing them talk to one another was truly disturbing and disgusting to say the least. I definitely deserve much more from a husband.
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I know this might not go over well here on a forum for saving marriages but I'm questioning if I really want to be with him after all of this. That decision is yours and yours alone. No one on this forum will judge you for calling it quits and moving on.
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Thanks Prisca. Knowing someone is doing something is one thing but hearing it all brings it to a whole new level of understanding. I know I'm raw right now and I'm not ready to say that I'm 100% sure I'm done but I have much to think about today.
Me-47
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I know this might not go over well here on a forum for saving marriages but I'm questioning if I really want to be with him after all of this. Hearing them talk to one another was truly disturbing and disgusting to say the least. I definitely deserve much more from a husband. This is not a forum dedicated to making women put up with that! Dr Harley shows that marriages can be saved and can thrive after an affair. He never says that they must be saved after an affair, and none of us posters believe that, either. You need to get right out of that situation. We're here to support you in doing that.
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Me-47
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Thanks MelodyLane.
I feel like the door to my heart has been closed, deadbolted and barricaded shut. I literally started vomiting bile (because my stomach is empty) after listening to that tape and I never puke. I know this might not go over well here on a forum for saving marriages but I'm questioning if I really want to be with him after all of this. Hearing them talk to one another was truly disturbing and disgusting to say the least. I definitely deserve much more from a husband. No one would EVER fault you for making the decision to move on. This is not a marriage-at-all-cost forum. That is 100% your decision. We would, however, recommend that you expose in the manner recommended regardless of your decision. We will support you whether you decide to divorce or stay.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane. I'm learning toward divorce because there is more to consider than just infidelity. There's the drugs and alcohol and the way he was talking and laughing about me feels nearly unforgivable right now.
Me-47
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I'm so sorry I completely understand your feelings as after my dday in 2011, I was about 99.9% sure there was NO possibility of my ever being able to remain married to my ex. My lovebank was completely in the negative red zone. But I was advised to complete exposure and follow Plan B anyway. It not only will give you more options down the line should you change your mind, but it will protect you. It is win-win. I did end up divorced anyway, but have NO regrets for following through with exposure followed by Plan B.
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Thanks Prisca. Knowing someone is doing something is one thing but hearing it all brings it to a whole new level of understanding. I know I'm raw right now and I'm not ready to say that I'm 100% sure I'm done but I have much to think about today. My advice is to not even try to attempt to make this decision now. When you are dealing with a wayward spouse and reeling from the things that you are (hearing the tape and learning of the drugs in addition to the affair, etc), you are going to be an emotional rollercoaster on top of the immense pain you are dealing with. We will ALL support you should you end up in Plan D. But for right now, get yourself to a place where you have put the wheels into motion to have the most options down the line, and get to a place where you can have some peace from this craziness and decide later. You do NOT have to decide now. I knew in my heart I was heading towards Plan D, but I just put it to the side and focused on getting into Plan B. Hang in there.
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I'm so sorry.
Even if you knew this was the case, it is so much more painful to hear it on tape.
Nobody would fault you if you filed for divorce right this minute. This is the most abusive and painful thing one spouse can do to another. The marriage can overcome this if both parties are willing, but if you decide you are not willing you have every right to divorce.
Exposure and Plan B will help you so much. When are you planning to expose? Do you have an IM lined up for your Plan B?
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For now, focus on exposure and Plan B. Some people have to file if they need spousal support. See a lawyer to hear your options, but don't feel like you have to decide right away.
You should secure documentation of current finances though, include 401ks, investment accounts, etc.
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SusieQ, unwritten and apples123, I'm still going to expose and plan B. I reached out to the OW's husband today and will do Facebook and work tomorrow when they are both there. Thanks for the support.
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Exposure to be the most effective needs to be done all in one
day.
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How are you keeping Montgomery?
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Thinking about you Montgomery, hope you are hanging in there. Please keep us updated on your exposure and let us know if you have questions.
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Unwritten, weirdsituation, theroad and All.
The exposure seems to have gone as well as can be expected. The OW'$ husband believed me despite his WW telling him I was crazy and paranoid. He contacted my husband and told him it was low down to mess with another man's wife when they are trying to work on their marriage! He was going to go meet her last night after the call from her husband 'to talk' and I said that actions speak louder than words and by going there he was making a mistake and that I was going out to dinner. He asked me to wait on him and I said no, I wasn't going to wait on him while he went to see his girlfriend so he decided to go with me. I gave him every opportunity to tell me anything else I needed to know but he said he had told me the complete truth about everything (which was yet another lie because I had listened to the VAR).
I emailed all the big shots at OW and WH's work and they are both suspended pending further investigation. They spent an hour on the phone today after that happened. WH says he broke up with her and wants to work on our marriage.
Last edited by Montgomery; 01/23/17 04:58 PM.
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Wow. This is beautiful. The exposure has really worked. Great and smooth job. I love your resilience. I am learning a thing or two from you. I am curious as to replies you are getting from friends and families on all sides. Did you expose to them. What was your husband's reaction? I mean emotionally, roughed up, guilty.. how does he look? Is he angry at you? Any remorse?
Last edited by WierdSituation; 01/23/17 05:30 PM.
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Way to go, Montgomery!
If your husband is serious and you are willing, you need to move and get away from temptation and bad memories.
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Who else did you expose to? What information did you give her BH? Did you tell him you have proof? I would also not hesitate to mention that your WH was having a PA with her while continuing to have an intimate relationship with you. I would put money on the fact your WH has told his OW that you are 'married by paper only' and sleep in seperate beds... It's in the wayturd handbook you know 
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Now is the time to give your WH a list of EP's that you require to stay in the marriage. He needs to do these 110% immediately or I would go directly in Plan B. I would include quiting his job and moving, since the OW is a coworker and local enough to have carried on an affair right in your own home. If he hesitates at all, Plan B. I do not want to see you go through another DDay.
Where are you at with Plan B preparations?
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Unwritten, weirdsituation, theroad and All.
The exposure seems to have gone as well as can be expected. The OW'$ husband believed me despite his WW telling him I was crazy and paranoid. He contacted my husband and told him it was low down to mess with another man's wife when they are trying to work on their marriage! He was going to go meet her last night after the call from her husband 'to talk' and I said that actions speak louder than words and by going there he was making a mistake and that I was going out to dinner. He asked me to wait on him and I said no, I wasn't going to wait on him while he went to see his girlfriend so he decided to go with me. I gave him every opportunity to tell me anything else I needed to know but he said he had told me the complete truth about everything (which was yet another lie because I had listened to the VAR).
I emailed all the big shots at OW and WH's work and they are both suspended pending further investigation. They spent an hour on the phone today after that happened. WH says he broke up with her and wants to work on our marriage. He needs to commit to total no contact immediately. If he tells you he needs to go talk to her, or calls her for 'closure,' he should come home to the locks changed. Don't lecture him or debate him on it, just put his stuff on the porch and change the locks. It doesn't take an hour to break up with somebody. It takes a no contact letter IN THE MAIL. This tells me he is not serious at all.
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I emailed all the big shots at OW and WH's work and they are both suspended pending further investigation. They spent an hour on the phone today after that happened. WH says he broke up with her and wants to work on our marriage. Montgomery, your husband is not serious about ending his affair so you must ask him to move out immediately. Did you play the recording for the OW's husband? Did you finish your exposures? Did you expose to all her family and friends? I hope you are doing ok, you have been so very strong and brave!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Did you make plans to go out to dinner with your WH when he was still gaslighting you about affair and had not agreed
to 100% NC?
Montgomery, if your WH will not agree to do NOT only these things but to all of the things on the EP checklist AND agree to end all drug/alcohol use etc, you need to pack his bags and tell him to leave.
Please do check in a little bit more. I'm very concerned you could get sidetracked with a gaslighting wayward and spend MORE time in Plan A, when that is not where you should be.
Last edited by SusieQ; 01/23/17 08:48 PM.
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Also, what about the drugs? In your house! Or did I misread?
Married to Pearlseeker for 13 yrs
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Thanks for the overwhelming show of support from everyone here. I promise to come back later today and give a comprehensive reply. Yesterday was very busy with the exposure, finally getting tested for STD's, picking up the report from the PI and still showing up to work for 5 hours! I doubt couldn't have made it this far without everyone's help but I realize it's far from over.
Me-47
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I just want to say you are doing great. Most people who come here don't want to take the hard steps and want to let their emotions run the show. I can tell you are a strong woman who will follow a plan instead. Trust me when I say even though exposure and Plan B are hard, you will be so much better off in the end following a plan! Whether you end up recovering your marriage or having personal recovery without being daily impacted by the affair, it will be a success.
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Apples123, unwritten, MelodyLane, SusieQ and buildsherhouse,
I do hope I answer all the wonderful responses I've received. It's been an intense few days as I'm sure you can all understand. I'm sure I've not done everything perfectly by MB standards and I'm sure I've made some mistakes but I've been doing my best.
I offered to share the VAR recording and PI report with the OW's husband but he said it wouldn't be necessary. He said Friday was the first time she had stayed out all night in their 25 years together. He suspected something but couldn't prove anything until I contacted him. I reached out to him today and gave him another opportunity to see/hear the evidence but he declined and based on his reply I think he must have had his own affair at some point. He did agree to let me know if he suspects or learns his WW and my WH are still seeing each other. I'm going to destroy the VAR soon but I wanted to give the OW's BH a second chance to listen before I do so. It is a felony where I live to record someone without their prior consent.
I'm sorry to be dense but I have read around the forum and SAA and I'm unsure what EP stands for? I have told my WH that to stay together and rebuild our marriage he would have to cooperate with complete transparency, quit his job, agree to absolutely no contact with the OW and agree to everything else outlined in the MB program. He resigned from his job today and forwarded me the email he sent to his boss. He gave me his work email password. I know it's just a start but it's something I suppose. I also told him I will need his other email password and full disclosure of all accounts, passwords and access to his phone at all times and he said that would not be a problem. Thus far I have only asked for his work email password and checked that but I suspect he deleted messages before giving me the password. He admitted last night that work email was how they communicated after I discovered the phone calls and texts back in December.
Obviously I don't trust him and I have every reason not to. He made a complete 180 after I exposed to the OW's BH Sunday. I had already been dealing with this for nearly 6 weeks with little to no change or show of effort on his part so it's bending my mind. I'm completely confused.
Oh the drugs! Where to begin.... He lied Sunday night and told me that Friday he was getting the OW 'pills' but I knew from the VAR that he bought cocaine. He is a pothead and pot is illegal in our state but he has had a regular supplier for decades. I pointedly asked him if there was anything he wasn't telling me because I didn't want any surprises and of course he said no. As per the usual these days since I'm not sleeping well I woke at 3 am and when he woke up I told him I knew he was doing cocaine with the OW in our home Friday. He claims it was a mutual idea and they split the cost as if that matters! He claims he doesn't normally do cocaine or any other drugs besides marijuana and said I could drug test him. I'm not sure where to go on the drug angle besides randomly test him. I'm not seeing any money coming out of our regular joint account but he works side construction jobs with his brother and gets cash for that so he could be using that money for his affair and drug expenses.
I exposed to his family, my family, the OW's husband and her Facebook friends and their work. Sadly I can't find any information on the OW's parents and they live in another state so that was the best I could do and still expose in a timely fashion. Unfortunately no one in the bunch is a practicing Christian except me so there was no clergy to inform.
My mistakes as I see it thus far:
Before I learned of MB I confronted him about the affair before I had hard evidence.
It took me too long to get evidence because they became more secretive.
I wasn't able to hide my feelings well enough after the first PI surveillance and he knew I was suspicious and mad.
I've continually let him gaslight me because I'm either a fool or a sucker but I honestly love him for some reason.
I didn't make the 2 hour drive home when I knew they were sleeping together in my bed.
Probably more mistakes that I don't even realize.
I'm ready for plan B but now he starting to act like he is really trying (but only since yesterday morning)!
So Sunday when I came home I slept in the spare bedroom because I couldn't bring myself to sleep in my own bed where they were together only hours earlier. Last night he slept with me in the spare bedroom. He knows that I know they were together in our room and in our bed and that I will never sleep in that room or bed again. I also had my wedding rings cut off by the jewler on Sunday after listening to the VAR. I told him I was letting him go because I had a PI following him and I knew he had the OW spend the night at our house while I was out of town.
I've probably botched the whole thing but I've done my best. I love him but I'm worth so much more. I'm not really sure where to go from here.
I'm sorry for the excessively long post. It's been intense and surreal. I feel like I'm at a crossroads where I either give him another chance and plan A longer but fear I will most likely end up disappointed or just go into plan B tomorrow despite his efforts over the last 24 hours!?!?
Thanks again for everyone's kind words and support.
Me-47
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EP = extraordinary precautions, with the goal of making another affair impossible
This would include no contact with OW, quitting that job, moving to another area were OW isn't easily accessible and where you arent triggered, 100% transparency with surveillance (he must commit without knowing your methods) and changing all contact information.
You should also decide if your return is contingent on his ending his drug use.
He also needs to commit to providing Just Compensation- making the marriage better than ever so that you can stay without resentment. This involves 20-25 hours of UA time to rebuild and meet each other needs. Many couples take a vacation early on to jumpstart the process.
If you are interested in recovery, download and read Surviving an Affair tonight.
Last edited by apples123; 01/24/17 06:26 PM.
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Thanks so much apples123. That's very, very helpful. I have read Surviving an Affair. I have it on my kindle right now. I finished it around New year's but WH wasn't on-board so that was one of my red flags that I needed to get better evidence.
Me-47
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I'm going to destroy the VAR soon but I wanted to give the OW's BH a second chance to listen before I do so. I am not in a position to give legal advice, but to me it seems unwise to destroy your evidence at this moment. Can you put it in a safe or save the recording as audio file and password protect it? He claims it was a mutual idea and they split the cost as if that matters! He claims he doesn't normally do cocaine or any other drugs besides marijuana and said I could drug test him. It might be a good idea to take him up on hos promise and drug test him, to prove that he has been using cocaine. Waywards have a tendency to obstruct divorce and cost you lots of time (and money). Evidence of him using cocaine might be helpful if you decide to get a divorce. Sadly I can't find any information on the OW's parents and they live in another state so that was the best I could do and still expose in a timely fashion. Unfortunately no one in the bunch is a practicing Christian except me so there was no clergy to inform. Facebook and google might be of help. I often find more info than people think they share online, just by googling the right words/names and combinations of those. I've continually let him gaslight me because I'm either a fool or a sucker but I honestly love him for some reason. You are a normal human who thought she knew the man she married. A wayward is not the same man you used to know. This is an emotional roller-coaster, you will have many ups and downs, love him and hate him. You are doing so good in this difficult time, I wish others acted as quick as you did. Most people are afraid to expose and postpone. Keep posting and let the forum help you along this difficult road. Remember, this is not a sprint, this is a marathon. The forum will support you and keep you on your feet.
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goody2shoes, Thanks for your input. Currently the VAR is in a locked file cabinet in my office at work. I took it there after I listened to it so my WH could not find it.
I do think I should probably randomly drug test him. I believe cocaine only shows up for @48 hours but I will keep an eye out for signs he is using.
I did try to find the OW's parents on Facebook but didn't have any luck. I believe they are in their 70's so perhaps it is not something they are into. I will try Google and see if I can find anything. Thanks for the tip.
Thanks for reminding me I'm normal and for the support. You're right this is an emotional rollercoaster for sure!
Me-47
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I did try to find the OW's parents on Facebook but didn't have any luck. I believe they are in their 70's so perhaps it is not something they are into. I will try Google and see if I can find anything. Thanks for the tip.! Sometimes the information is nearer than we thought it is. Ask OW's Husband for parents's info. Tell him you want to expose it. Husband must know aunts, relatives and friends of family too who can provide if he is not comfortable giving it himself. You can say to the husband just think as if an old friend wants to send a gift through Amazon and needs email address, phone number and mailing address to make sure they get the package. That way he can give you the info but does not get in trouble from his WW. You can also ask friends and relatives of WW with the same approach maybe through calling them after finding their numbers. Or better ask your PI to find the parents and their info. Also ask your WH to get you this info. He must have a way to find this. Or find which county they live in and ask the fire department, post office or police in that county. Or go to that state if you can to find them - a stretch but these are the most important people(+OW's Husband) to expose to. Nowadays it is easy to find info. Only my $0.02.
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Good to hear the update. You exposure has worked so well. I believe more in MB. I wish I had come across this a long time ago before my separation. I do not know what to do in my situation - in court and my exposure maybe after divorces. Terrible to imagine but I really want to expose before that. Kind of sucks. It feels like a lost cause.
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I have to say your husband is impressive. I like his 180 degree.
He is still not revealing everything to you. That is the nature of "Waywards". I think you should not bang yourself on that because it is hard for them to admit. He is also in shock now. Too much for him. I only hope with time they may tell.
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Montgomery, I am running out the door but I see some huge RED FLAGS here. If your husband has resigned, then how come he still has a work password?? He should never go back there!! He turns in his resignation and never goes back. How can he end contact if they still work together?
And secondly, you should not ever detroy the VAR tape because there will come a time - VERY SOON - when your NON serious husband denies the affair.
You are not out of the woods! He will be seeing her very soon and you need to be prepared and watching him.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm going to destroy the VAR soon but I wanted to give the OW's BH a second chance to listen before I do so. It is a felony where I live to record someone without their prior consent.
I'm sorry to be dense but I have read around the forum and SAA and I'm unsure what EP stands for? I have told my WH that to stay together and rebuild our marriage he would have to cooperate with complete transparency, quit his job, agree to absolutely no contact with the OW and agree to everything else outlined in the MB program. He resigned from his job today and forwarded me the email he sent to his boss. He gave me his work email password. I know it's just a start but it's something I suppose. I also told him I will need his other email password and full disclosure of all accounts, passwords and access to his phone at all times and he said that would not be a problem. Thus far I have only asked for his work email password and checked that but I suspect he deleted messages before giving me the password. He admitted last night that work email was how they communicated after I discovered the phone calls and texts back in December. When someone quits at my company, they inactivate the work email immediately. How does he have this account? Is he still going to work to see the OW? And you need to find the OW's parents and expose to them.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I have to say your husband is impressive. I like his 180 degree.
He is still not revealing everything to you. That is the nature of "Waywards". I think you should not bang yourself on that because it is hard for them to admit. He is also in shock now. Too much for him. I only hope with time they may tell. WeirdSituation and Montgomery, One of the stipulations of recovery is that the wayward give the entire list of sordid details of their affair. You must learn everything that happened so there are no later surprises. You don't want the death of a thousand cuts that comes from hearing a trickling of the truth. So this is something you will want to insist on immediately. Get all the details of the affair and then if you're on a true path to recovery never bring it up again. However you'll need to keep snooping to ensure he isn't having any contact.
Last edited by MrAlias; 01/25/17 08:41 AM.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
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I have to say your husband is impressive. I like his 180 degree.
He is still not revealing everything to you. That is the nature of "Waywards". I think you should not bang yourself on that because it is hard for them to admit. He is also in shock now. Too much for him. I only hope with time they may tell. Her husband is not impressive. He is not doing a 180 degree change. He is in 'damage control' mode right now following the exposure, but is showing major red flags that he is not really serious about ending this affair. When the dust settles he will just gaslight Montgomery into reasons or delays to take the serious steps needed to end contact and recover the marriage. When it comes to men in affairs, Dr Harley says that they must come back 'hat in hand,' meaning they are 100% on board with everything they need to do to end the affair and recover the marriage. If Montgomery's husband is not 'hat in hand' she needs to move to Plan B. Not revealing things IS the nature of waywards, when they are still involved in affairs and gaslighting their spouses that is, NOT when they are serious about ending an affair and committing to recovery.
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There is nothing impressive here. The affair is still active and he is still at his job. The ONLY thing that changed is the affairees have gone further underground.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Have you read this and listened to the clips? What is Just Compensation?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Weirdsituation, MelodyLane, unwritten, MrAlias, BrainHurts,
Thanks for all the input and keeping me on track. I tend toward agreeing that the affair is not over. I told him I would not consider it over until he is no longer at that job. FWIW He gave a 30 day notice because he is in management. She texted him yesterday and he says he didn't reply and as far as I can tell from the phone log he didn't. I immediately found out and informed her husband. If I'm going to try to stay in plan A I need to get spyware on his phone asap.
He surprised me with a mini-vacation and we are leaving town for three days later today. We should have some uninterrupted time to go over everything I require to stay in the marriage. At this point I'm not willing to compromise on anything or make it easy for him to continue the affair.
Me-47
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FWIW WH has activated the GPS tracker on his iPhone. I'm still going to keep using the car GPS but be thinks I had to returned it to the PI. I found a new location for it out of site in the roof of the glove compartment..
Me-47
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Weirdsituation, MelodyLane, unwritten, MrAlias, BrainHurts,
Thanks for all the input and keeping me on track. I tend toward agreeing that the affair is not over. I told him I would not consider it over until he is no longer at that job. FWIW He gave a 30 day notice because he is in management. She texted him yesterday and he says he didn't reply and as far as I can tell from the phone log he didn't. I immediately found out and informed her husband. If I'm going to try to stay in plan A I need to get spyware on his phone asap. The affair is not over. I am very alarmed that you are not asking him to leave. He sees her at work, she is still contacting him, THE AFFAIR IS NOT OVER!! Plan A is over, over, over, over. It is Plan B time. He surprised me with a mini-vacation and we are leaving town for three days later today. We should have some uninterrupted time to go over everything I require to stay in the marriage. At this point I'm not willing to compromise on anything or make it easy for him to continue the affair. NO. You should not go anywhere with him unless he does this today: 1. agrees to never see or speak to the OW again. TODAY. That means he never goes back to that job and he changes his phone # and his email address TODAY. If he won't do those things TODAY, you should pack his bags and ask him to leave. Montgomery, he won't take this seriously if you don't take this seriously. The time for plan A is over.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWIW WH has activated the GPS tracker on his iPhone. I'm still going to keep using the car GPS but be thinks I had to returned it to the PI. I found a new location for it out of site in the roof of the glove compartment.. Montgomery?? What is the point of this if he is going to see her at work every day?? This makes no sense. My friend, you are as fogged out as him. This makes no sense. He should never return to this job.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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M, this vacation is a distraction from an urgent situation that needs to be fixed today. You need him to end his affair TODAY. That means he never returns to that job. That means he shuts down ALL means of contact between he and the OW TODAY. Changing phone #s and emails addresses. After he changes all of his contact information, he should send her a no contact letter. My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. [from SAA, pg 58] OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely, XXXXX
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Wow, yeah well I guess I am somewhat in a fog. I've never been through anything like this before. Just trying to do the best I can but this is all new to me. It's confusing because it seems like he is trying but I totally get that it's probably damage control and more gaslighting.
But I do sincerely want to thank everyone for the overwhelming outpouring of support I've received.
Me-47
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Wow, yeah well I guess I am somewhat in a fog. I've never been through anything like this before. Just trying to do the best I can but this is all new to me. It's confusing because it seems like he is trying but I totally get that it's probably damage control and more gaslighting.
But I do sincerely want to thank everyone for the overwhelming outpouring of support I've received. If your husband is "trying" it will be demonstrated by actions, not empty words. Talk means nothing. The first and most critical action would be to END CONTACT. He has not even taken the first step. He must end contact TODAY. You cannot and should not do anything until that happens.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks MelodyLane,
What a disaster. Perhaps his resigning and booking a getaway are his way of trying to show me he is serious. Perhaps not. We work in a specialty field in medicine and it's nearly impossible to just flat out quit because unfortunately other people's lives are in our hands (people on life support). I do understand that never going back period is preferable. He has agreed to work remotely as much as possible. He may be fired as well because the investigation from the work exposure is still ongoing. If not he will need to train his replacement as he is the only person in our state that does that particular job and there are only three people doing a similar job for the company we work for in the entire country. My marriage is more important than all of that though.
He has been agreeable to the list of EP's too. You are right that I will be able to tell if he's serious by his actions. It feels kind of strange to go into plan B now after he has finally started to wake up and act like he is trying and seems to be talking me seriously.
Me-47
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Married for 16 years
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Perhaps his resigning and booking a getaway are his way of trying to show me he is serious. Perhaps not. Until NC is 100% implemented, you should NOT trust one single thing out of this man's mouth. We work in a specialty field in medicine and it's nearly impossible to just flat out quit because unfortunately other people's lives are in our hands (people on life support). I do understand that never going back period is preferable. He has agreed to work remotely as much as possible. Montgomery, he needs to leave. You are TOO quick to give him a pass. It's what I've noticed as a theme OVER and OVER again on this thread. He knows that he can gaslight you. The time for that is over. This is his mess to clean up - not yours. He is the one that decided to have a workplace affair, where his job is critical to saving the lives of others. I understand positions where speciality medical training is necessary (this was my WH as well) and the longest I could see that he would need to wrap up loose ends is a couple of days. Not 30 days. Think about it, if he was to get into an accident or be involved in some other emergency in which he could NOT work for a period of time, what would the business do? There are always options. You're being gaslighted here again. Big time. Your WH is in operation continue affair and figure out the next steps in the next 30 days while you give him a pass. Each day he goes to work, your marriage is in serious jeopardy. I think if you IGNORED your WH's words and realized this, you would be pressing this issue harder. It feels kind of strange to go into plan B now after he has finally started to wake up and act like he is trying and seems to be talking me seriously. IMHO, you should have already packed his bags a couple of times here, but you gave him a pass (I will be back with more on this) and he knows that he has wiggle room. Sorry to be so brutally honest, but you need to wake up here.
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He was going to go meet her last night after the call from her husband 'to talk' and I said that actions speak louder than words and by going there he was making a mistake and that I was going out to dinner. He asked me to wait on him  I gave him every opportunity to tell me anything else I needed to know but he said he had told me the complete truth about everything (which was yet another lie because I had listened to the VAR). They spent an hour on the phone today after that happened. These red flags are for your actions, Montgomery. You're still in Plan A mode. You should have packed his bags and put them at the door.
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Montgromey, I am No expert here and I admire and respect these folks who also helped me get through my WS affair.
I just know that sometimes options need to be put in place. SusieQ told me I could never let my husband go anywhere alone ever. We are 1 yr from our first Dday. If I had found MB sooner and had that info from SusieQ, I would have been with him everywhere he went, would have monitored every text every key stroke on his computers and he would not have been able to continue his affair another 5 months virtually in front of my nose. spyware on everything! And as for work, I get he can't just walk away, he can give you all his contacts and everyone would have to go through you first as a screener to his conversations and office. He cant be trusted, It would be terribly intense but really the only way his continuing in his job. You would need to accompany him to his office and any meetings. He will need to be with you always unti he can leave that job.He simply will not stop the affair if he is having contact at work. Way wards are wayward period.
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Thanks MelodyLane,
What a disaster. Perhaps his resigning and booking a getaway are his way of trying to show me he is serious. Perhaps not. We work in a specialty field in medicine and it's nearly impossible to just flat out quit because unfortunately other people's lives are in our hands (people on life support). I do understand that never going back period is preferable. He has agreed to work remotely as much as possible. He may be fired as well because the investigation from the work exposure is still ongoing. If not he will need to train his replacement as he is the only person in our state that does that particular job and there are only three people doing a similar job for the company we work for in the entire country. My marriage is more important than all of that though. If he suddenly became incapacitated or dropped dead, his employer would find a way to deal. No one is indispensable.
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Perhaps this is something she should ask Dr. Harley. He can loose his license if he abandons his patients. Montgomery, can you email Dr. Harley today?
Can he talk to a colleague and switch shifts? You would be amazed at the people who will come through for you if you let them know you are going to lose your marriage without their help. Kind of the same way people step up if a family member dies.
Is the OW a nurse?
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You both should also consider if he should take a future practice in a less specialized field or a different practice setting. Have you been spending nights apart? That must stop or another affair is very likely.
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We work in a specialty field in medicine and it's nearly impossible to just flat out quit because unfortunately other people's lives are in our hands (people on life support). I do understand that never going back period is preferable. He has agreed to work remotely as much as possible. He may be fired as well because the investigation from the work exposure is still ongoing. If not he will need to train his replacement as he is the only person in our state that does that particular job and there are only three people doing a similar job for the company we work for in the entire country. And he and OW were doing cocaine??? And he regularly uses marijuana?  His number one reason for leaving that job TODAY is to attempt to salvage your marriage. His number two reason for leaving is that he is a pothead and occassional cocaine user who is in charge of people on life support. Alarming.
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Wow, yeah well I guess I am somewhat in a fog. I've never been through anything like this before. Just trying to do the best I can but this is all new to me. It's confusing because it seems like he is trying but I totally get that it's probably damage control and more gaslighting.
But I do sincerely want to thank everyone for the overwhelming outpouring of support I've received. Montgomery, I know this is hard, and you have been doing great. I know it is easier for us to look at this logically, whereas you have emotions involved. This is your life afterall. But many of the posters here have been through this, and we have seen this a million times on these boards. We can tell if a WS is serious or not pretty easily. Whereas you are emotionally falling for the things he IS doing, we are reading between the lines at what he ISN'T doing. He is not serious. He has no intention of never seeing or speaking to the OW again. If he was, he would have immediately changed his phone number so that she could never contact him. Obviously, he did not do this. He would have quit the job with no intention of returning. Obviously, he did not do this either. The list could go on of the things he did NOT do to protect you. Plan A is OVER. Dr Harley recommends 3 weeks of Plan A for a woman, and you have done much more than that. He recommends this because women start to suffer psychologically and physically after this. You have already been experiencing some of this damage.
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Here is the list of EP's Dr Harley recommends. Please tell us what has been done on this list:
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
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The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
This means: never return to the workplace again, change or get rid of any method the AP had to contact him (cell#, email, social media...), MOVE.
You need to demand he do these things TODAY and if he even raises an eyebrow, pack his bags.
You really, really need to be serious about this. You need to make him know that he has two choices, continue his affair, or try to recover his marriage. He needs to know that there is no way you will settle for crumbs and let him continue to gaslight you. Or, he will.
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Thanks MelodyLane,
What a disaster. Perhaps his resigning and booking a getaway are his way of trying to show me he is serious. Perhaps not. Of course he is not serious. "Resigning" but not leaving is like an alcoholic saying he will quit drinking the future. His words MEAN NOTHING. It is all empty talk. The vacation is a DISTRACION. It is like taking a vacation while the titanic is sinking. He is not going to take this seriously unless you do! NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE!! NOTHING!! We work in a specialty field in medicine and it's nearly impossible to just flat out quit because unfortunately other people's lives are in our hands (people on life support). I do understand that never going back period is preferable. He has agreed to work remotely as much as possible. He may be fired as well because the investigation from the work exposure is still ongoing. If not he will need to train his replacement as he is the only person in our state that does that particular job and there are only three people doing a similar job for the company we work for in the entire country. My marriage is more important than all of that though. Oh hell no. We have had NEUROSURGEONS, firemen, pilots, politicians quit on the spot. It is not impossible to leave that job. It is not. He cannot train his backfill. He needs to get out of there NOW. He has been agreeable to the list of EP's too. You are right that I will be able to tell if he's serious by his actions. It feels kind of strange to go into plan B now after he has finally started to wake up and act like he is trying and seems to be talking me seriously. He has done NOTHING. Nothing has changed. Sahing he is "agreeable" but doing NOTHING is NOTHING. He is not taking this seriously, because YOU do not take it seriously.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Perhaps this is something she should ask Dr. Harley. He can loose his license if he abandons his patients. Montgomery, can you email Dr. Harley today?
Can he talk to a colleague and switch shifts? You would be amazed at the people who will come through for you if you let them know you are going to lose your marriage without their help. Kind of the same way people step up if a family member dies. STOP!! She does not need to speak to Dr Harley. We already know the answer. That will be another distraction. He needs to leave the job. If he switches shifts, she can switch shifts./ Dr Harley advises NEVER returning to the workplace: When there is an affair in the workplace, and the other person continues to work there, my advice is that the unfaithful spouse must quit the job and find another to avoid ever seeing or talking to the other person again. But if the unfaithful spouse is unwilling to resign, should a betrayed spouse expose the affair to the employer?
<snip>
But if the unfaithful spouse has not separated, I advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse that if he or she works there one more day, the affair will be exposed to the employer. That gives him or her an opportunity to use vacation time to look for another job and make a graceful exit. If a new job is not found by the time the vacation time is over, I recommend applying for an unpaid leave of absence or a resignation to avoid returning to work. He should not return to this workplace. He has done NOTHING, NOTHING to end his affair. He sees his lover every day at work so this whole exercise is pointless.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And as for work, I get he can't just walk away, he can give you all his contacts and everyone would have to go through you first as a screener to his conversations and office. Oh no, he certainly can walk away. These are Americans so he is not an endentured servant. You would need to accompany him to his office and any meetings. He will need to be with you always unti he can leave that job.He simply will not stop the affair if he is having contact at work. Way wards are wayward period. The OW works at the office so this would never work. I don't think some of you folks understand this situation and how serious it is. [unwritten does, thank God!] The WS works with the OW. THEY WORK TOGETHER. Their affair has taken place in the workplace primarily.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Montgomery, let me put this another way. STEP ONE is ending contact. He has not taken STEP ONE. You should separate until that happens.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We work in a specialty field in medicine and it's nearly impossible to just flat out quit because unfortunately other people's lives are in our hands (people on life support). I do understand that never going back period is preferable. He has agreed to work remotely as much as possible. He may be fired as well because the investigation from the work exposure is still ongoing. If not he will need to train his replacement as he is the only person in our state that does that particular job and there are only three people doing a similar job for the company we work for in the entire country. And he and OW were doing cocaine??? And he regularly uses marijuana? His number one reason for leaving that job TODAY is to attempt to salvage your marriage. His number two reason for leaving is that he is a pothead and occassional cocaine user who is in charge of people on life support. Alarming. This is what I'm thinking. Even if there were no affair there's some pretty serious implications in here if you do not report this now that you know, Montgomery.
Married to Pearlseeker for 13 yrs
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I realize it is not good forum etiquette to not address everyone's thoughtful replies and I sincerely apologize. I have read all your replies and have taken them to heart. I mostly haven't posted because I'm completely embarrassed but I'm in plan D with my portion of the savings account and I started working full-time this week. It's too painful to go into my failures with everyone here after I have been so thoroughly humiliated by my WH. Thanks to everyone for the unwavering support, compassion, tough love and reality check. I think my situation was just too broken by the time I found this place. I recommended MB to the OW's BH today. Perhaps it can help him as they have two teenagers at home still. Much love and appreciation to all that helped me in my time of need. I will forever be grateful and please keep doing this important work.
Me-47
WH-43
OW-46
Married for 16 years
Dday-12/12/2016
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I'm sorry for you pain. You don't need to be embarrassed.
Could you please tell us what happened? Keep in mind that there are lurkers who are following along and can learn from your mistakes.
Also...just because you are in Plan B/D doesn't mean you won't still need guidance and support. I leaned heavily on my MB friends during that time.
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Thanks SusieQ. I found out more lies from the OW's BH this weekend. I immediately went into plan B. I gave my WH one more chance to come clean with the truth and as you all already know he continued to lie all the while professing his love for me and desire to work on our marriage. My brother is our IM because we must get this house sold where he in part conducted his affair. I transferred half of the savings plus my PI expenses into my own account before going into plan B. There isn't much more to say except my WH and the OW are technically still working together and I can't cope with that or the lies anymore. I'm devastated, demoralized and spent far too long being lied to in plan A.
On a personal note I tested clean of all STD's. I've lost too much weight from not being able to eat. I started smoking again and I've been drinking alcohol everyday which I've never done before due to a family history of alcoholism. I have to get myself back on track and obviously I can't do that and continue to deal with my WH and his affair.
I truly appreciate each and everyone of you more than words can express.
Me-47
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Married for 16 years
Dday-12/12/2016
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I'm so sorry Montgomery for your pain. Please don't feel embarrassed for the awful act your WH committed. You don't deserve this and shouldn't feel ashamed for his dispicable choices.
Please stay with us so we may help you with your continued path.
So is he out of the house?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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BrainHurts, thanks for the kind words. No he is not out of the house yet. He needs to be and should be but I had to start working full-time today and didn't get a chance to deal with a locksmith. I'm going to make it a priority tomorrow although I'm not sure how but I'll somehow find a way. I'm terribly afraid of losing my job because as you can imagine my performance hasn't been great for the last 7 weeks! I'm trying my best to stay strong but this is the worst thing I've ever gone through and I've been through a lot! Sorry to be so down and negative but the hurt is just overwhelming right now. I am really thankful for this forum and all the moral support.
Me-47
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Dday-12/12/2016
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Montgomery, a couple of things. The first is that you are not in Plan B if he is living there. Plan B means to be separated. You can't go into Plan B until that happens.
Secondly, why are you starting a job now? Holy crap!! That is not good for you emotionally or legally. You have been slammed with the most traumatic thing that can happen to someone. Not a good time to get a job!
PLEASE get him out of the house ASAP and go into Plan B.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Can you ask your doctor for some temporary ADs to help you through this?
Have you told him he needs to leave? You're not in Plan B if he is still in the house.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Montgomery, please do not be embarrassed. This is a very traumatic situation to go through and impossible to handle perfectly.
At this point Plan B (a true Plan B) and filing are the very best options for you. Pack his bags and change the locks TODAY. This has to be priority number one. Your health and lifestyle have become greatly jeopardized by this and I am very worried about you. You need to go into a dark Plan B TODAY and I promise you will feel so much better if you do.
Please don't stop posting, we can continue to help you through Plan B and Divorce. There are so many people here who have been through this and are very happy now.
I know it is hard to focus on anything right now, but you need to focus on packing his bags and changing the locks. Going dark and getting away from the drama is priority #1. This is more important than your job, because if you end up in the hospital or as a raging alcoholic you will lose your job anyway.
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MelodyLane, BrainHurts and unwritten,
I did it!!! I left work (very) early, packed WH a large suitcase, called a locksmith and got the locks changed and left his bag with the note I had already written and my brother's contact information on the porch. I went to my neighbor friends house for a couple hours right before I knew he'd be home so I could avoid him altogether. He kept calling and texting but eventually stopped. My brother works evening shift so I have no idea if he has tried to contact him or not. I had my neighbor delete the voicemails and texts so I wouldn't have to deal with them. I'm now having a semi-relaxing evening at home with my dogs.
I'm already on an antidepressant but I did get older generation antihistamine that's used off label for anxiety from my Nurse Practitioner.
I'm not sure what comes next but I'm relieved to have gotten this far.
I think I should maybe stop communicating with the OW's BH. He has been great helping me uncover more lies but I don't want to bond with him during this vulnerable time. I also don't want to talk about or think about the affair anymore. It seems like a tricky and potentially problematic situation.
Thanks everyone, I'll keep you all posted.
Me-47
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Good job!!! What kind of note did you leave him? Was this the Plan B letter?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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That's fantastic. Now get dark and really start to heal. Have you changed all your contact information so he can't contact you?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Great job!
There is a thread on how to properly IM, you should send it to your brother so he knows what to do.
I can tell you already feel better. There will be some rough days ahead when you are missing the life you thought you had, but overall Plan B will be a breath of fresh air away from this mess.
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The IM training thread is in here if you want to send it to your brother.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I think I should maybe stop communicating with the OW's BH. He has been great helping me uncover more lies but I don't want to bond with him during this vulnerable time. I also don't want to talk about or think about the affair anymore. It seems like a tricky and potentially problematic situation. You are correct in thinking that this could be a potentially dangerous situation. Keep your boundaries high, even in Plan B. But also, now that you are in Plan B, you should not be hearing about affairland. You have gone into a dark separation and therefore you do not need to hear about anything WH and OW are doing or not doing. Part of healing yourself is to separate from the affair drama, and OW's BH is a part of that. Perhaps you could provide him with your IM's info and if he has any pertinent information to pass along it can run through your IM (which would not be passed on to you). I can see that this would be helpful if your IM is getting information from your WH that he has ended the affair and is making changes to recover, but getting different information from the BH. It can give you IM some means to know how serious your WH is if it ever comes to that point. Or just stop talking to the BH altogether, in any case you are correct that you should not have contact with him in your Plan B.
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Unwritten, BrainHurts and MelodyLane,
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Yesterday I just wanted a day to try to not think about the affair but today the floodgates of grief have opened wide.
I left a plan B letter based on a template I found in the thread on how to plan B correctly. I gave my brother the IM information too.
I did find out that my WH decided to stay at his job only because I work for the same company.
I'm sad for everything I lost because of the affair but I know everything will be okay eventually. I'm hopeful to sell my house soon so I can move closer to my family and heal. Sorry if I didn't answer something, I'm sort of a mess right now.
Me-47
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I have to say that while I'm feeling the full devastation of it all I'm relieved to no longer have to be hypervigilant 24/7! Just taking care of me is nice.
Me-47
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Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I have to say that while I'm feeling the full devastation of it all I'm relieved to no longer have to be hypervigilant 24/7! Just taking care of me is nice. Montgomery, in a few weeks you will better than you have felt in a very long time if you remain in a pitch dark Plan B. You won't believe the difference. Hopefully, your brother is a good IM and is not passing on messages.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Me-47
WH-43
OW-46
Married for 16 years
Dday-12/12/2016
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Joined: Nov 2010
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You're doing great.
Has your WH tried to reach you?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Joined: Jan 2017
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Yes BrainHurts. I'm in a rather uncomfortable situation and haven't yet figured out how to best handle it to be perfectly honest. My brain hurts too.
We work for the same company and he is the manager. Technically he is not my manager but since I work out in the field he occasionally has to pass along pertinent clinical information to me. Yesterday he snuck in an "I'm sorry for hurting you so much" in the morning and I told him to keep it strictly business and today he added "I was wondering if you might want to have dinner tonight". This obviously isn't going to work. Today I gave my number out to key people that would normally contact him and told them to contact me directly in the future. I really don't like having to communicate with him for work at all. I will just have to keep looking for a new job. Otherwise he is leaving me alone.
Me-47
WH-43
OW-46
Married for 16 years
Dday-12/12/2016
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Oh boy so this is really going to obstruct your Plan B. You're really not in Plan B if you work together and him not quitting his job shows he isn't serious about recovering his marriage. Do you have to work? Is there anyway you can take all your vacation/leave and get out of there?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 78
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You're correct BrainHurts! I went to spend the weekend out of town with my parents and didn't have internet so I'm sorry for delay in responding. The best thing I can figure out to do at the moment is contact my boss and tell her to tell WH that if there is a clinical issue I need to know about he needs to have someone else give me the information. Sort of a work IM until I find another job. My plan is to move closer to family once the house sells and at that time I will need to get a new job anyway. Sadly I don't have any vacation time because I've been working part-time until the past week. The weekend has been quiet with no contact from WH.
Me-47
WH-43
OW-46
Married for 16 years
Dday-12/12/2016
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Did you ever expose your WH's alcohol and drug use to the workplace?
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SusieQ, No just the affair.
Last edited by Montgomery; 02/05/17 07:08 PM.
Me-47
WH-43
OW-46
Married for 16 years
Dday-12/12/2016
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