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hi,my name is rob.i would appreciate any advice please.the story is my wife and i have been together for 21 years.she has 3 grown up kids of her own and a 13 year old daughter with me.she was a carer and loved her job.she has only been doing it 2 years.she also had a few people she would clean for.she was such a genuine lovely person and everyone liked her.any way a 53 year old man came to the care home where she worked.he has ms and is paralised from the neck down.he cant feel his body and his speach is slurred.any way my wife got friendly with him but they didnt like him at the care home so he was moved to another care home 30 miles away and she started catching the train up to visit him once a month.it got more and more regular and she was constantly texting him and talking on the phone to him.i started to get suspicious as my wife had told me a while back that he had an affair with a previous carer.in the end she was going up every few days.neglecting her family and work.i got hold of her phone and read that she was in love with him and couldnt help how she felt.i confronted her.that evening 2 days before christmas and all she said was that she loved him and had a connection with him that she never had with me.she was so cold and hurtfull and saying bizare things to my daughter and i like he would love to meet us and she was telling us how they are in a relationship now and how they kissed and held hands.and how he wanted to pay someone to open a shop up with his kids and my daughters name above it.she even went up to visit him boxing day even though my daughter pleaded with her not to go.i told her that i loved her and was heart broken and devistated.but she still went up to be with him.i wrote her a long letter telling her what a kind lovely person she was and we didnt understand all the bizare things she had told my daughter and i.and how she would only ever have a hospital relationship with her new boyfriend.i said that this is doing my head in and if she carries on her relationship either she needs to leave the house or i will.she said she would leave and went to stay on her friends sofa.since then she has quite all her jobs without even letting them know.she constantly promises to see our daughter but half the time lets her down and allways comes up with some excuse.the truth is she is nearly always up with him.she is now totally reliant on him for money but never gives her enough to do anything with our daughter when she does see her.in the eight months since she first met this man she has left her husband and daughter.lost all her jobs,has no home.and never rings our daughter or anything unless our daughter instigates it.she was always a good wife and mum but all she seems to have is him.even her grown up kids cant work it out.no one can.the strange thing is that her new bloke has written a book on how to influence people and get them to do what you want including chapters on hypnosis and how to get someone to fall in love with you and how to be a good salesman.i have been reading some of it.i dont know if this has anything to do with it or the menopause or stopping being on antidepressants or if she just truly loves him.she sent me a text saying she loves me as a person but she is in love with him.i text her the other day to say our daughter hadnt been going into dinners at school and seemed depressed and said that our daughter was upset that she never rings and that she had always been a good mum and dont stop now.but to my horror her boyfriend sent my daughter a text which he obviously cant type himself as he cant move.the text said dont worry we all have bad days and your mum loves you loads and i would love to meet you.i was really cross.our marriage has had its ups and downs but we always got on well really,my wife often didnt want sex often and sometimes we only had it once in a year as she said she didnt feel like it because she was antideppresants.i always had to instigate it.i must admit i didnt do much house work and she paid quite a bit more rent than me as she had more money.i appologised in the letter saying i should have done more around the house and paid more rent and i understand how that made you feel.i also moaned at her quite alot and regret not giving her more attention.we only broke up a month ago and have tried to be nice but nothing seems to work.the house and life feels empty without her as she was our rock.i would welcome any advice and questions.thanks for reading this .rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
hi,my name is rob.i would appreciate any advice please.the story is my wife and i have been together for 21 years.she has 3 grown up kids of her own and a 13 year old daughter with me.she was a carer and loved her job.she has only been doing it 2 years.she also had a few people she would clean for.she was such a genuine lovely person and everyone liked her.any way a 53 year old man came to the care home where she worked.he has ms and is paralised from the neck down.he cant feel his body and his speach is slurred.any way my wife got friendly with him but they didnt like him at the care home so he was moved to another care home 30 miles away and she started catching the train up to visit him once a month.it got more and more regular and she was constantly texting him and talking on the phone to him.i started to get suspicious as my wife had told me a while back that he had an affair with a previous carer.in the end she was going up every few days.neglecting her family and work.i got hold of her phone and read that she was in love with him and couldnt help how she felt.i confronted her.that evening 2 days before christmas and all she said was that she loved him and had a connection with him that she never had with me.she was so cold and hurtfull and saying bizare things to my daughter and i like he would love to meet us and she was telling us how they are in a relationship now and how they kissed and held hands.and how he wanted to pay someone to open a shop up with his kids and my daughters name above it.she even went up to visit him boxing day even though my daughter pleaded with her not to go.i told her that i loved her and was heart broken and devistated.but she still went up to be with him.i wrote her a long letter telling her what a kind lovely person she was and we didnt understand all the bizare things she had told my daughter and i.and how she would only ever have a hospital relationship with her new boyfriend.i said that this is doing my head in and if she carries on her relationship either she needs to leave the house or i will.she said she would leave and went to stay on her friends sofa.since then she has quite all her jobs without even letting them know.she constantly promises to see our daughter but half the time lets her down and allways comes up with some excuse.the truth is she is nearly always up with him.she is now totally reliant on him for money but never gives her enough to do anything with our daughter when she does see her.in the eight months since she first met this man she has left her husband and daughter.lost all her jobs,has no home.and never rings our daughter or anything unless our daughter instigates it.she was always a good wife and mum but all she seems to have is him.even her grown up kids cant work it out.no one can.the strange thing is that her new bloke has written a book on how to influence people and get them to do what you want including chapters on hypnosis and how to get someone to fall in love with you and how to be a good salesman.i have been reading some of it.i dont know if this has anything to do with it or the menopause or stopping being on antidepressants or if she just truly loves him.she sent me a text saying she loves me as a person but she is in love with him.i text her the other day to say our daughter hadnt been going into dinners at school and seemed depressed and said that our daughter was upset that she never rings and that she had always been a good mum and dont stop now.but to my horror her boyfriend sent my daughter a text which he obviously cant type himself as he cant move.the text said dont worry we all have bad days and your mum loves you loads and i would love to meet you.i was really cross.our marriage has had its ups and downs but we always got on well really,my wife often didnt want sex often and sometimes we only had it once in a year as she said she didnt feel like it because she was antideppresants.i always had to instigate it.i must admit i didnt do much house work and she paid quite a bit more rent than me as she had more money.i appologised in the letter saying i should have done more around the house and paid more rent and i understand how that made you feel.i also moaned at her quite alot and regret not giving her more attention.we only broke up a month ago and have tried to be nice but nothing seems to work.the house and life feels empty without her as she was our rock.i would welcome any advice and questions.thanks for reading this .rob
Welcome to MB.

I'll give you tip, Rob, and that is that you should not submit a post that looks like this. This is a wall of text without capital letters and without paragraphs. It is off-putting to look at, and I suspect that people will have trouble reading it, and will not respond.

Break up your posts into paragraphs of 3-4 lines, and use punctuation.

Are you legally married to her? For how long? How and why did her previous marriage end?

Do the people at the new care home know about the affair?

Has this man ever been married? Does he have any family?


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Reputable hypnotherapists have a code of conduct that forbids them using their influence for personal gain. If this man has written a book, you can find out what professional body he belongs to, and expose the affair to them.

If you can't find out the details of such a body, expose the affair to the media, and on the site Cheaterville.

The fact that he is published can work to his disadvantage.


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Hi,yes I have been legally married since 2001.My wife hasn't been married to anyone else before.He was married once and has 3 children.The affair didn't start in the care home where my wife worked and I don't think she is his carer now.thanks rob

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In reply to sugarcane.The problem is I don't know if she has been hypnotised and I could never prove it.cheers rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
The problem is I don't know if she has been hypnotised and I could never prove it.
That's true.

So, putting gate hypnotherapy aside, this is a standard affair. You need to expose it, yourself (don't rely on the belief that other people already know about it) to family and close friends of yours, hers, and his. That includes his 3 children.

After that, given that she has already left, your only hope for reconciliation is to wait for the affair to die. If you decide to stay in contact with her in the hope of winning her away from that man, Plan A is recommended by Dr Harley for at least six months. During that time, you must not lecture her or write letters like the one you described above. You must only show that you still care for her, and you have her best interests at heart. When the affair collapses (as it very likely will), she will remember your kindness and think about reconciling with you. There will be certain steps for you both to the at that point. However, the affair could go on for many months yet.

If, as some point, you decide that contact with her is harming your love for her, you go to Plan B. This involves having no direct contact with her until the affair ends.

Of course, you can give up waiting and divorce at any time - right now, if you want.

It sounds as if you do not want to divorce right now. Is that correct?

Are you in the UK?


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In reply to sugar cane.Yes I am in the UK.My step kids and family anf friends know about her affair.None of them understand it.We all really like her and it is so unlike her to behave this way.I am not going to write her anymore letters and feel i have done all I can to keep her.Sugar cane I don't really want a divorce yet as i know if she realises she feels the same way as me and with a lot of talking and effort I think the marriage could be better than ever.It had gone a bit boring and we both took each other for granted.But I must admit part of me feels like i have been used and manipulated and my trust has been betrayed and i don't know whether i could ever look at her in the same light again.So many emotions.Thanks for your suggestions sugarcane and I will take them on board

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Sugarcane I was interested to know how you new I was in the UK.And also how exposing the affair would help.Wouldn't it just turn her more against me?.On a different subject the one thing that really put me off her the most was when i sent her a text saying how our daughter had been depressed and not eating etc.and I put at the end of the text please keep this text to yourself as it was no one elses business but ours(basically I didn't want his influence on it)then he sent me a text to my daughter to my phone from my wifes phone.Saying we all have bad days etc.I think his plan was to drive a bigger divide between my wife and I by letting me know that she had shown him the text.Plus it is his fault she was suffering in the first place.If he was such a nice genuine man he would not have instigated the affair in the first place

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Originally Posted by rob68
Sugarcane I was interested to know how you new I was in the UK.
Because you said this:

Originally Posted by rob68
she was always a good wife and mum
We Brits stick out like a sore thumb on this American site. I can sniff out a fellow Brit at 100 yards. I'm in London, but the way.

Originally Posted by rob68
And also how exposing the affair would help.Wouldn't it just turn her more against me?
Unlike most other marriage forums, this isn't just a forum where anybody can give their opinion on what someone else should do. The advice we give on this forum only comes from the work of Dr Harley, the founder of the Marriage Builders programme, and owner of this site. He has written all the free articles you should read here, in order to understand what Marriage Builders is all about. The people that post advice here have all used his programme to resolve affairs or other issues, and we post here because we know that Dr Harley's advice is unique, and it works.

If you haven't already done so, you should read the article How to Survive an Affair, right now. It explains why an affair should be exposed:

"If your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way, I know of a way to help speed up its demise: Expose it. Your own family should know: Your parents, your siblings, and even your children. The family of your spouses lover should also know, especially the lover's spouse. The pastor of your church should be informed as well. Exposure of an affair is like opening a moldy closet to the light of day. Affairs do well when they're conducted in secret, but when they're in full view for all to see, they appear as they are -- incredibly foolish and thoughtless.

Even if exposure were to be ineffective in ending an affair, I'd recommend it anyway. The betrayed spouse needs as much support as possible, and exposure helps friends and relatives understand what's going on. Keeping an affair secret is no real help to anyone. But I've been amazed at how well it dismantles the illusion that affairs rest upon. Instead of assuming that the relationship is made in heaven, an unfaithful spouse quickly senses that it's a one-way ticket to hell on earth.

The first reaction of an unfaithful spouse to exposure is to try to turn the tables on the betrayed spouse. "I will never be able to forgive you for hurting me this way. Don't you ever think about how I'd be affected by this?" Of course, it's really the affair that hurts. The exposure simply identifies the source of the pain. The unfaithful spouse should be the one begging for forgiveness.

In spite of the suffering that an affair inflicts on a betrayed spouse, during this period of exposure he or she should try to make as many Love Bank deposits and as few withdrawals as possible. If you argue about the affair, you'll damage recovery. Insist on the unfaithful spouses complete separation from the lover (no contact for life), but don't fight about it. I call this strategy to end the affair Plan A.

If exposure itself doesn't end the affair immediately, my advice regarding what to do next is usually different for husbands and wives. I encourage husbands to try to stick to avoiding arguments and meeting their unfaithful wives' basic needs (Plan A) as long as possible (six months to a year)."

The article also briefly explains Plan A, which I mentioned in my post. There is a separate article that explains What Are Plan A and Plan B?, and several Q&A columns that Dr Harley has written in response to readers' questions on Steps to recover from an affair. You should read all the articles about affairs first, but then read all the articles relating to Dr Harley's Basic Concepts. You mentioned knowing that you had a lot of work to do to make your marriage much better than it was before; the Basic Concepts will show you how to accomplish that goal.

Originally Posted by rob68
On a different subject the one thing that really put me off her the most was when i sent her a text saying how our daughter had been depressed and not eating etc.and I put at the end of the text please keep this text to yourself as it was no one elses business but ours(basically I didn't want his influence on it)then he sent me a text to my daughter to my phone from my wifes phone.Saying we all have bad days etc.I think his plan was to drive a bigger divide between my wife and I by letting me know that she had shown him the text.Plus it is his fault she was suffering in the first place.If he was such a nice genuine man he would not have instigated the affair in the first place
Well, of course he's not a nice man. He's a scumbag. Don't wear yourself out thinking about how he could do the things he is doing. Concentrate on fighting the affair, and doing Plan A if you are still interested in recovering your marriage after the affair ends.


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Thanks sugarcane I will do what you reccomend as it seems great advice.Thanks for all your effort in helping me,it is much appreciated.cheers rob

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Are you saying her parents and family are ok that she's having an affair? Have you read this?
Exposure 101


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi brain hurts,my wifes dad is dead and her mum left her when she was ten.Her kids do not want her to have an affair.They wan't us to get back together.No one agrees with her and no body understands what she sees in him.They all say she has changed since she met him,but not in a good way.thanks rob

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Several articles have been linked in this thread, for you to read. How are you getting on with reading them?


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Hi sugarcane.yes I have read them all thanks.They were all very helpful.I am not really sure what to do next.I don't think she will come back.It is really getting our daughter down.She rang her mum today and her mum said she would ring later but did not.I don't think she would ring at all if our daughter didn't ring first.I looked on my wifes email account today and there was a email about a flat she had been looking at which is 30 miles away from us and it is where her boyfriends care home is.What would you recommened I do.Probably no contact I guess.I feel anxious,confused and heart broken.cheers rob

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Once you go no contact (Plan B), you won't be doing anything to attract her back once the affair ends.

Dr Harley recommends that men go to Plan B when they cannot cope with Plan A any more; when they are beginning to lose their love for their wives. However, if you want a chance at restoring the marriage, he recommends that men make a good go of Plan A. He feels that they are more more resilient, and able to cope with the heartbreak of watching an affair happen, than women in the same situation.

What has your wife said about leaving you? Has she said she has left you for this man? Has she said the marriage is over and she is making a new life with him, or was it more "I need to do this right now", without much explanation of how she sees the future?


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Well I have hardly seen her in the last month.Only when she stopped by twice to pick up some clothes.And a couple of times when I have dropped our daughter off to see her at her friends house.I would feel awkward to say to her that I want her to end her relationship with him.My wife left a month ago today.I said in a letter i wrote to her a week after I discovered she was in love with him that it was doing my daughters and my head in and that it was cruel and that i loved her very much but if her affair carried on then either she should leave the house or i will go.She then rang me when I was walking the dog and said I think it is best if she goes to stay at her friends house.Since then she quite all her jobs and is constantly at this care home visiting him and staying up there.She hasn't said the marriage is over but she texted me a couple of weeks ago and said she loves me as a person but is in love with him and can't help how she feels.I don't think she has thought about the future.She says that she doesn't think he has long to live.cheers rob

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The thing is about my wife is that she had the most awful backgound.Her dad died when she was six.When she was ten her mother left her with neighbours who fostered her and hasn't really had much contact with her since.Her foster parents kicked her out when she was sixteen.she then went into a refuge where she was badly beaten up by four women for no reason.She then met this bloke who she had three kids with.She never married him.He used to beat her up and raped her.He even kicked her in the stomach when she was pregnant with there first child.she was split up with him when I met her and every body was just using her and stealing from her.I started dating her and got her away from all that.I started taking her kids on holiday and things.We went out for six years then married.I saw her confidence grow and she was a lovely genuine person.collecting for charities and helping people.She was a really nice person.That is why I loved her.It wasn't for her looks but her inner beauty.But since she met this bloke she has become the most horrible cold person that I have ever met.cheers rob

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Where is the money coming from for her to live?
If you then cut her off and file for divorce.
You need to not be a door mat, make her face the
consequences of her choices, protect yourself legally
and this dose of reality may make her wake up.

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Hi theroad.The money she is living off comes from him.He gives her just enough money to go back and forth to him but not enough for her to do anything with our daughter.Last time i saw her she looked scruffy as hell.She seems totally deppendant on him,i think that's what he wanted.I wish she would wake up to all the damage she is doing to everyone.After 21 years with someone and just turn around and treat someone like that is appalling.I don't think I can face life without her.We just don't understand any of it.no ones does.cheers rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
The thing is about my wife is that she had the most awful backgound.Her dad died when she was six.When she was ten her mother left her with neighbours who fostered her and hasn't really had much contact with her since.Her foster parents kicked her out when she was sixteen.she then went into a refuge where she was badly beaten up by four women for no reason.She then met this bloke who she had three kids with.She never married him.He used to beat her up and raped her.He even kicked her in the stomach when she was pregnant with there first child.she was split up with him when I met her and every body was just using her and stealing from her.I started dating her and got her away from all that.I started taking her kids on holiday and things.We went out for six years then married.I saw her confidence grow and she was a lovely genuine person.collecting for charities and helping people.She was a really nice person.That is why I loved her.It wasn't for her looks but her inner beauty.But since she met this bloke she has become the most horrible cold person that I have ever met.cheers rob

This is a little off topic, but is there anyway you can get her to see a psychiatrist for a mental health imbalance? I know the fog of her affair can explain all her cold behavior, but the story of her mother abandoning her indicates mental health issues on the mother's part that could be hereditary.

I know someone who suddenly just "turned" in personality and had an affair and didn't want to be married and didn't want her children. Turned out she was bi-polar and with proper medication she is doing very well now. She can't believe she almost walked away from everything that is precious to her now. But that is what her mother did when she was a child and while her mother denies any mental health issues it seems very likely to an outside observer that she too is bi-polar.

You need to kill her affair so she can see straight again. But if you can get her to see a Dr. that might be very helpful too.

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Hi anywife,yes you could be right.she looks very deppresed when I last saw her.I would love her to get some help.But I don't know how to go about it as she hasn't lived here for a month.But I have just phoned her eldest child and she is very sensible.I read her your post and suggestions and she agreed with you that she could be ill.She will try and get her mum to see the doctor but said it won't be easy as she is hardly talking to her either and says when she has spoke, if she does answer the phone she just sounds distant and lost.I don't think I have a chance of killing off her affair as she seems so obsessed with him and his illness.I wish I could but don't think anything will separate her from him.I am gratefull for your suggestion and that is why I joined this great site.thanks rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
Hi anywife,yes you could be right.she looks very deppresed when I last saw her.I would love her to get some help.But I don't know how to go about it as she hasn't lived here for a month.But I have just phoned her eldest child and she is very sensible.I read her your post and suggestions and she agreed with you that she could be ill.She will try and get her mum to see the doctor but said it won't be easy as she is hardly talking to her either and says when she has spoke, if she does answer the phone she just sounds distant and lost.I don't think I have a chance of killing off her affair as she seems so obsessed with him and his illness.I wish I could but don't think anything will separate her from him.I am gratefull for your suggestion and that is why I joined this great site.thanks rob


Had you thought about emailing Dr Harley and asking for his advice? He may have some insights. I am guessing that he will tell you to fight very hard for your wife but he will have some more specific actions for you too. This seems so tragic.


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hi livingwell,that is a good idea,I will email him.It is really tragic and it makes it so much more difficult to cope with.If she ran off with some handsome rich man with his own house,it would be easier to get our heads around.thanks rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
hi livingwell,that is a good idea,I will email him.It is really tragic and it makes it so much more difficult to cope with.If she ran off with some handsome rich man with his own house,it would be easier to get our heads around.thanks rob


Come back and tell us what he says.


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Yes i certainly will.I don't know his email so i just emailed mb and asked them.Would you know where I could find it please.Also i will let you know if my step daughter had any luck with asking her to see a doctor.It's very difficult times at the minute.We will probably lose the house and struggling with our daughter.She just goes up stairs on her ipad.And doesn't really open up to me.She just says when am I seeing mum.I say I don't know just let her ring you and don't be moody with her as that will put her off seeing you.Just be nice is all I can say really.

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Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


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I have emailed them.cheers

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I have been consumed with anger and hatred towards my wife today and it feels quite refreshing.I have been thinking that if she is the sort of person who can't even be bothered to reply to a text concerning my daughter.
Betray private things to her om and put me down with him.
manipulate me into giving her lifts and picking her up from the bus station after she had been visiting him.
getting me to store some of his belongings in our house,which are still here.
lying and letting our daughter down.
Leaving us with loads on dept without a care how I am going to pay it off.
spending hundreds of pounds each month on her mobile.I just looked at the phone bill.Quite all her jobs without even the grace to let them know.
Thinks it's ok to have an affair and then found out,just say I can't help how I feel.
Just dismiss your partner after 21 years without even a care how they feel.
I prefer this feeling than missing her and feeling heart broken.I hope it lasts.

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Are you supporting her financially?


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You have to see a lawyer to figure out how to prevent her from ruining your finances even more.
The first consultation is often free.


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Even if you stay together in the long run and she comes to her senses, it will be much easier to recover if your finances are stable.

And do let her know cordially that his belongings have been thrown out and will be recovered by the garbage man if noone comes to pick them up.

Plan A does not mean that you are under any obligation to help the affair along, financially or by keeping his belongings in store.

Maybe she will show up for that...


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I am not supporting her,he is.She has left the home and recieves no money from me.

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Does anyone know where i can find a copy of plan A.There seem to be some examples of plan B.I would like to try plan A properly and give it a last shot.Thanks rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
Does anyone know where i can find a copy of plan A.There seem to be some examples of plan B.I would like to try plan A properly and give it a last shot.Thanks rob

Here is a link to the basic concept Plan A
If you do a search you will find lots more on this topic.

Have you heard back from Marriage Builder's radio? I'm sure Dr Harley will tell you to Plan A your wife for as long as you can.


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Hi livingwell.Joyce contacted me a couple of days ago and asked me to email her the details.Which I did.
Have not heard anything else yet.Thanks for asking.
I also don't know if she has been to the doctors yet.
I hope she hasn't turned my step daughter against me as I have sent a few texts but haven't heard back.cheers rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
Hi livingwell.Joyce contacted me a couple of days ago and asked me to email her the details.Which I did.
Have not heard anything else yet.Thanks for asking.
I also don't know if she has been to the doctors yet.
I hope she hasn't turned my step daughter against me as I have sent a few texts but haven't heard back.cheers rob


When you write your background, be sure to add that your wife was earning more than you. Important to add this as it can be very destructive to relationships. Is there any chance that you could get a better job?


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Hi livingwell.I did put in the email these things.
I am a gardener but I couldn,t do more work as she always needed the car by early afternoon,for her caring job.
I spoke to my step daughter today and she is having trouble mentioning to her mum that she might need a doctor.
She said that the om has been in hospital for the past week because of his illness and my wife has been sleeping in a chair at the hospital.
She hasn't had a shower or much to eat.
She is supposed to be seeing our daughter tommorow.I hope she sticks to her promise.Thanks for your help livingwell.You are a good person.I should have married you instead lol.

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Just got back from picking my daughter up.She did see her mum today.
I gave my daughter some money to buy some clothes and some money for my wife and daughter to get some lunch in a restaurant.So they would have some quality time together.
My daughter said it went ok but she seemed weird and smelt a bit.
I saw my step son earlier and he said he isn't speaking to his mum anymore because she spends all her time with her om.It is nice to have some support.It makes me realise that it's not my fault.
It seems there is no such thing as loyalty and talking about things anymore.No wonder there is so many divorces.

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Originally Posted by rob68
Just got back from picking my daughter up.She did see her mum today.
I gave my daughter some money to buy some clothes and some money for my wife and daughter to get some lunch in a restaurant.So they would have some quality time together.


Good move. You mentioned that you were close to losing your house. Plan A is about showing you are the best option. What about taking on some additional work so that you are also her rock financially?


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Hi living well,the finances are looking better now.We don't own our house and it is a rented council house in a nice village in south west England.
A local charity said they would help me pay off some of the old debts.And other debts I can pay off fairly small amounts monthly.
So at the minute things are looking better.
I haven't heard anything more from dr harley so i might go ahead and do a plan A as best as I can.
I will mention that I have the finances under control and the house is tidier than ever.And I will do my fare share of house work.
It seems so strange that she is so obsessed with the om.Giving up everything for him.They can never have a future together or have sex with him.
I really feel she is under his control.


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Rob,
The point of the finances is not that you just stop looking for more work when YOU feel things are better. It might seem strange to you but it's possible that the OM money is a big draw. For some women Financial Security is a primary need, not just temporarily but that you plan in such a way she will be taken care of to her comfort level on into the future. In your story it does look like this could be a big deal to your wife.


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Hi buildsherhouse,yes i see your point.And will take it onboard,thanks

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Originally Posted by rob68
Hi livingwell.Joyce contacted me a couple of days ago and asked me to email her the details.Which I did.
Have not heard anything else yet.Thanks for asking.
I also don't know if she has been to the doctors yet.
I hope she hasn't turned my step daughter against me as I have sent a few texts but haven't heard back.cheers rob
Have you sent her another email incase your reply got lost some how?


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Just re sent it brainhurts.Thanks

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Here is a copy of my plan A letter,i haven't sent it yet and wondered what peoples opinions were.thanks.



Hello xxx,
I just wanted to let you know that I have been sorting all the dept's out on the house.A local charity is going to pay off the old council tax and rent arrears and I am looking for more work.So things are looking much better for the future.
I also wanted to let you know that I think about you all the time and love you so very much.I would of never have married you if I didn't want to grow old with you.I know it started as a one night stand but it became a marriage.
I think about all the days out we had as a family unit,like going to lynton and lynmouth and driving over exmoor.Or even going to Cheddar.And all the holidays we had at grumpy Wendys and not forgetting Tenby.
I shall really miss it all, and your companionship.
I felt I could always be myself with you and that is a lovely quality that you bring out in people.You have a lot of lovely qualities.That is why i fell in love with you.It took me a long time I must admit.But it was well worth it.
I spoke to Jenny xxx the other day and she said to me that I was a good looking man and that I would find someone else.I told her that I didn't think I was good looking and that I didn't want anyone else.
I don't think I will ever find anyone who I love as much as I love you.And that is why I just haven't given up on you.
I understand that you have emotional needs and I feel, with a lot of honesty and talking we could have a great marriage.Much better than before.
I felt board and rejected a lot of the time and we were stuck in a rut taking each other for granted.But things could be so much better if you would give things a chance.
This has been by far the most painful experience of my life.xxx and I have been totally destroyed by this affair.For children divorce means that the fairy tale is officially over.Children from broken homes are never the same again.
So if you would be willing to finish the affair and wanted to really talk things over and put a plan in so we could have a really great and fulfilling marriage.I would be happy to talk.It can be done.And we could do it.
But if you are not willing to do these things then I have to protect my self mentally and move on with my life.
from rob





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Originally Posted by rob68
Here is a copy of my plan A letter,i haven't sent it yet and wondered what peoples opinions were.thanks.


Wait and see what Dr Harley advises. Don't send anything now. We will help you create a love letter that will bring tears to her eyes.

Great news that you will have more work, that will be very helpful no matter what happens.


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Hi living well.Funny enough I had an email from joyce today and she said she hadn't heard from me.Even though I sent two emails.I worked out that if you just press reply it doesn't work with Joyces.
I hope I have got it sussed now.So fingers crossed.
Do you live in America livingwell.Or are you British like sugarcane

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Originally Posted by rob68
Hi living well.Funny enough I had an email from joyce today and she said she hadn't heard from me.Even though I sent two emails.I worked out that if you just press reply it doesn't work with Joyces.
I hope I have got it sussed now.So fingers crossed.
Do you live in America livingwell.Or are you British like sugarcane


I am British but mostly live in the US.


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You probably know some of the places I mentioned in my plan A then living well

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Good that you heard back from Joyce. What is the plan from here? Will you be on the show?


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Hi brainhurts,Joyce said I will let you know when we have discussed your email on the M.B. Radio Show. You will then be able to listen to dr harleys response.

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When my daughter went shopping the other day with her mum,my wife stayed at her friends house and my two stepsons were there with her.
I spoke to one on the phone and he said the om gives her his credit card so she can catch a taxi down and food etc.
my ww told her son that the om trusts her 100 percent.I can't help thinking that this is one of his manipulating techniques.He is basically saying by doing these gestures,stick with me I have money and making her feel special and trusted.I can't help thinking how gulliable she is

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Originally Posted by rob68
When my daughter went shopping the other day with her mum,my wife stayed at her friends house and my two stepsons were there with her.
I spoke to one on the phone and he said the om gives her his credit card so she can catch a taxi down and food etc.
my ww told her son that the om trusts her 100 percent.I can't help thinking that this is one of his manipulating techniques.He is basically saying by doing these gestures,stick with me I have money and making her feel special and trusted.I can't help thinking how gulliable she is


How are you doing with getting more work? I suspect that these gestures mean a lot to her.


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I haven't got much more work yet.I have to combine it with taking my daughter to school and being home when she comes back.And the dog needs a good walk as well.
There is not that much work about around here at the moment.
But my ww doesn't know about it because I haven't seen her.
Do you think dr harley will give me a plan A.Joyce didn't mention it.Only that when it was on MB radio she would let me know.
A big part of me thinks why should I bother writing another letter.She's the cheater and there's me apologizing.When I say another letter I wrote her two shortly after we broke up.

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You would think my WW would be bored out of her mind just sat next to him all day and night.It's most strange.You could make a film of it and still people wouldn't believe it.
My WW said I never did a lot around the house.Well she has gone from one vegetable to another.And who would have thought she even liked vegetables anyway.lol

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Originally Posted by rob68
I haven't got much more work yet.I have to combine it with taking my daughter to school and being home when she comes back.And the dog needs a good walk as well.
That's what childminders are for, and you can pay someone to go to your house and walk the dog at lunchtime. There are also many breakfast clubs and after school clubs at primary schools these days. All the schools local to me have them.

I and my friends were working mothers, and we had to find ways of getting care for our children. With one single girl (one child is easy to care for), you might even be able to find another stay-at-home parent at her school, who needs the money and will gladly have her. You only need to walk her to the neighbours in the mornings and evenings.

You urgently have to find solutions to the problems of being a low earner, or under-employed.


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Originally Posted by rob68
I haven't got much more work yet.I have to combine it with taking my daughter to school and being home when she comes back.And the dog needs a good walk as well.


Isn't your daughter 13 years old? I don't know about the laws in other countries, but in the US this is old enough to be home alone, and even babysit smaller children.

Do you have a transportation system to get her to school and back? If so, could she not use that and be home alone until you get there after school?

I haven't read your entire employment issues, but I don't know many women who would be OK with their spouse using these as reasons he could not work. The dog can go for a walk after work. The 13 year old daughter can have some responsibilities for the dog. These just seem like excuses to me, sorry.

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Originally Posted by rob68
You would think my WW would be bored out of her mind just sat next to him all day and night.It's most strange.You could make a film of it and still people wouldn't believe it.
My WW said I never did a lot around the house.Well she has gone from one vegetable to another.And who would have thought she even liked vegetables anyway.lol
You need to stop this musing about how she can be with this man. The circumstances of his disability are unusual, but really, your wife is behaving like unfaithful spouses behave. She is blind to her own lack of judgment, and wilfully disregarding of the effects of her unfaithfulness on all the people that love her.

Taking time to write here abut how baffling her behaviour is is a waste of time. You are also expressing disrespectful judgements about her. What you should be doing instead, when you recall what she used to say about you, is realising that she was giving you valuable clues about how you could have better met her emotional needs.

While it was a grave error of judgement for her to embark on an affair, if she is to return to you when it ends, as you hope, you need to be able to show her that you will take her complaints seriously. Musing about how illogical it was for her to complain about you, and then turn to someone who must be doing a much worse job, will get you nowhere.

Also, please try not to be offensive about disability.


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It is on marriage builders radio now.just go on replay from todays broadcast.It is from 21mins onward.Dr harley didn't mention a plan A

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Originally Posted by rob68
It is on marriage builders radio now.just go on replay from todays broadcast.It is from 21mins onward.Dr harley didn't mention a plan A
Great. I won't have time to listen until later and so what was Dr. Harley's advice?


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living well you mentioned that you would have a plan A,that would bring tears to my WW eyes.
I wondered if you could help me please

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Originally Posted by rob68
It is on marriage builders radio now.just go on replay from todays broadcast.It is from 21mins onward.Dr harley didn't mention a plan A


You might want to listen again. He did indeed say you should plan A your wife. He said this relationship will last 6 months at most as dementia will kick in and that you should be preparing now for your wife's return.

He suggested you use the book he wrote for clues on how to meet her emotional needs. Clearly intimate conversation is massively important for her because this is obviously how he managed to get her to fall in love with him. You will need to find a way to listen to her and give her your undivided attention for 15 to 20 hours a week.

Dr Harley did not mention this but she will love it if you earn more than she does. Women really like that.



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Sugarcane,I wasn't going to reply to your post but changed my mind.I wasn't being disrespectful to disabled people.I was in part taking the mickey out of myself.
I always felt sorry for the om as it must be a living hell but since he is having an affair with my WW I feel differently toward him.Even my step daughter found it ammusing.
You have to understand that I am not lazy.My daughter of 13 will not stay on her own,not even if I want to pop up the shop for 5 minutes,she has a phobia.She has only just started going up stairs on her own.
You say about getting a child carer etc.without really thinking it through.If I earn 10 pounds an hour doing gardening for people how much do you do think I would have to pay someone to look after her.Since the minimum wage is about 7.20 an hour.I did take on board what my wife said as you will see in previous posts.

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Originally Posted by rob68
You have to understand that I am not lazy.My daughter of 13 will not stay on her own,not even if I want to pop up the shop for 5 minutes,she has a phobia.She has only just started going up stairs on her own.
You say about getting a child carer etc.without really thinking it through.If I earn 10 pounds an hour doing gardening for people how much do you do think I would have to pay someone to look after her.Since the minimum wage is about 7.20 an hour.I did take on board what my wife said as you will see in previous posts.


I can think of several child care options that will not cost you money. One is to take her with you to work. Think about something like teaching a Saturday morning seminar at your nearest garden centre. You could ask her to help with the demonstrations. I'm sure you know some wonderful tricks on planting, pruning etc.

Or start a dog walking business around your existing work hours. If you have to walk your own dog, why not be paid to walk others? She could help you with that after school.

If ideas like that cannot be made to work, consider doing a child swap with another family where she goes after school to do homework at a friend's house for two evenings a week and you have friend at your house for two evenings.

Not only would something like this help your financial situation but it would also help your daughter. Anything that gets her out of her room will reduce her anxiety. She must miss her Mum so much :-(


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Hi living well.I Will take your suggestions on board.Thanks for your help.
On a different subject from work.I am tempted to ask for a divorce now.I don't want to be anybodys door mat.I know i'm not the most succsesfull man and never claimed to be.But I have a lot of other good qualities and if it all boiles down to money then she is not for me.I feel I have been a good dad and always have a sense of humour and am genuine. I feel we don't deserve to be treated this way and that's my feelings really.If my WW wants to make an effort then I am ready to listen.But i'm not doing anymore letters and chasing.

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Living well I just wanted to add that chasing doesn't work and all this will be telling my wife is that she can treat me like she wants and i will come back to her like a sad little puppy.Playing hard to get on the other had has much more power in my opinion.I know others will steam in and have a go at me for this but a person has to have a bit of pride.I am not feeling sorry for my self I know there is people far worst off than me like kids in siria with there legs blown off in some awfull hospital with no family.
i said to my stepdaughter that I was thinking of divorce and that it was doing my head in and she said I don't blame you.

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Originally Posted by rob68
Living well I just wanted to add that chasing doesn't work
Actually, it does. Dr. Harley's Plan A has saved countless marriages.

Quote
and all this will be telling my wife is that she can treat me like she wants and i will come back to her like a sad little puppy. Playing hard to get on the other had has much more power in my opinion.
And Dr. Harley would disagree with you. "Playing hard to get" doesn't work on wayward wives. Essentially, it will be telling her that you don't care that much about her.

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i said to my stepdaughter that I was thinking of divorce and that it was doing my head in and she said I don't blame you.

No one would blame you for divorcing her. And, if you have no intention of doing a Plan A, then a divorce and Plan B is what you should do.


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Originally Posted by rob68
Hi living well.I Will take your suggestions on board.Thanks for your help.
On a different subject from work.I am tempted to ask for a divorce now.I don't want to be anybodys door mat.I know i'm not the most succsesfull man and never claimed to be.But I have a lot of other good qualities and if it all boiles down to money then she is not for me.

We women like to admire our men. That does not mean you have to be the most successful person, if that was true there would be a lot of men without a women to love them! But being responsible with money is important as it shows caring. This is an area where you will have no trouble competing with the OM.

Originally Posted by rob68
But i'm not doing anymore letters and chasing.


Agree on the letters but read what Prisca wrote about chasing. We want strong men that care for us. You can do this!


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Ok this is what I am going to send her.Is this wrong?

I just wanted to let you know that I have been sorting all the dept's out on the house.A local charity is going to pay off the old council tax and rent arrears .So things are looking much better for the future.
I also wanted to let you know that I think about you all the time and love you so very much.I would of never have married you if I didn't want to grow old with you.I know it started as a one night stand but it became a marriage.Relationships have to start somewhere.I think about all the days out we had as a family unit,like going to lynton and lynmouth and driving over exmoor.Or even going to Cheddar.And all the holidays we had at grumpy Wendys and not forgetting Tenby.
I shall really miss it all, and your companionship.
I felt I could always be myself with you and that is a lovely quality that you bring out in people.You have a lot of lovely qualities.That is why i fell in love with you.It took me a long time I must admit.But it was well worth it.
I spoke to Jenny xxx the other day and she said to me that I was a good looking man and that I would find someone else.I told her that I didn't think I was good looking and that I didn't want anyone else.
I don't think I will ever find anyone who I love as much as I love you.And that is why I just haven't given up on you.
I understand that you have emotional needs and I feel, with a lot of honesty and talking we could have a great marriage.Much better than before.
I felt board and rejected a lot of the time and we were stuck in a rut taking each other for granted.But things could be so much better if you would give things a chance.
This has been by far the most painful experience of my life.xxx and I have been totally destroyed by this affair.For children divorce means that the fairy tale is officially over.Children from broken homes are never the same again.
So if you would be willing to finish the affair and wanted to really talk things over and put a plan in so we could have a really great and fulfilling marriage.I would be happy to talk.It can be done.And we could do it.
But if you are not willing to do these things then I have to protect my self mentally and move on with my life.And we will need to get a divorce.I am not going to do anymore chasing and I have my pride.I am starting to loose my love for you now.And I will not allow myself to be treated this way anymore.Since xxx has come into your life he has totally controlled you and manipulated you and you just can't see it but everyone else can,just read his book.It is what he is good at,and you should have never been a carer if you get this involved with patients,cheers rob

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Originally Posted by rob68
Ok this is what I am going to send her.Is this wrong?


Dr Harley did not suggest you send your wife a letter. He suggested you wait as a person with MS who is already paralysed from the neck downwards is close to the end. He advised you to you read this man's book to learn what he did to capture your wife's heart, it will be all in there. He said that it is very likely that this man simply knows how to be a great listener and that this is enormously important for your wife.

Of course you feel angry, that is completely normal but you did not tell Dr Harley about your wife's history. As someone who was abandoned (I was adopted), I would caution you very strongly against threats. Threats would be words like 'I am thinking of divorce' or 'I could find someone else' or I am starting to lose my love'. Of course you can (and should) say that her actions are causing you great pain. But she is likely to have a very intense reaction to threats. That could backfire on you in a very big way.

By all means divorce her if that is your wish, you have very right to do that. Just do not threaten and expect that to bring her back, it won't.


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Hi,living well.Thanks for taking the time to post again.
I thought Dr Harley said I should plan A her.I know he also said that he hasn't got long to live.
I mean no disrespect to you by saying this but I notice in the bit about yourself you say your ex husband was a serial adulterer.This is part of my point in a previous post,in that you obviously kept taking him back and he knew he could get away with it.
That is what I mean't when I said my WW would think she could treat me how she wants and I would keep taking her back like a sad puppy.
In respect to the om hasn't got long to live,i feel she would only be coming back because he died,which I don't think is fair on my daughter or myself.
I do agree with you about threats.
But I feel if she wants to get back together then she will need to do her bit and before he dies otherwise she will probably be a serial adulterer if she is not already.cheers rob

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Rob, by the looks of things, your wife is a typical run-of-the-mill wayward. Do you have evidence that she is a serial cheater? I haven't seen it posted here.

Serial cheaters and typical waywards are two different beasts.

I suggest you slow down and start listening. You are trying to reinvent the wheel based on your feelings, and your feelings are going to be all over the map right now. I suggest you slow down and learn this program, which is based on science rather than feelings.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Rob, by the looks of things, your wife is a typical run-of-the-mill wayward. Do you have evidence that she is a serial cheater? I haven't seen it posted here.

Actually Dr Harley said that OM was a serial cheater :-(



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Originally Posted by rob68
I mean no disrespect to you by saying this but I notice in the bit about yourself you say your ex husband was a serial adulterer.This is part of my point in a previous post,in that you obviously kept taking him back and he knew he could get away with it.

Yes he was a serial adulterer but I did not find out. He was extremely good at covering his tracks. When I discovered the Fat Slag (pre MB) he dumped her immediately which is pretty standard for men. She was probably woman number 50.

Originally Posted by rob68
That is what I mean't when I said my WW would think she could treat me how she wants and I would keep taking her back like a sad puppy.
In respect to the om hasn't got long to live,i feel she would only be coming back because he died,which I don't think is fair on my daughter or myself.

As Prisca says, you need to read more about MB. She can be back in love with you even if she returns because OM died. She fell in love with you once and can do so again.

Originally Posted by rob68
I do agree with you about threats.
Good!

Originally Posted by rob68
But I feel if she wants to get back together then she will need to do her bit and before he dies otherwise she will probably be a serial adulterer if she is not already.cheers rob


This is one of the trickiest parts of MB. We can help you but you need to read the basic concepts. Plan A is about being the better option. That means you are the best husband you can be even though she is the one who cheated (tough eh). She many not be in the least contrite and will probably fight you even while you are being the best plan A husband on the planet. Prisca has personal experience of that and so is a good person to be supporting you.

A serial adulterer is someone that trolls for conquests. Your wife sounds as if she is quite the opposite and that she fell into this by accident.


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Hi living well.prisca,I have two friends on here things are looking up.
Fat slag you say livingwell,sounds like my wife lol.Maybe she was one of them.Only joking.
I do wonder if she is a serial cheater because before we were married she cheated on me.Yes prisca I will start listening.I understand that you know what your talking about and appreciate your advice and it hasn't fallen on deaf ears believe me.Livingwell I have read just about everthing on here.But am not convinced that playing hard to get isn't better option.When I was about twenty I was so in love with a girl.I thought about her for years and years after it finished.Still think about her now sometimes.
anyway when we broke up I told her how much I loved etc.She wasn't interested.Then my mum said play hard to get.Which I did and she was all over me.
It didn't last I must admit but it worked better than telling her how much I loved and missed her.Dam this is all so much hard work.I should get paid lol

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Originally Posted by rob68
Fat slag you say livingwell,sounds like my wife lol.Maybe she was one of them.Only joking.

WHOA WHOA WHOA. This is not ok. This is how you talk about your own wife?


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Originally Posted by rob68
Fat slag you say livingwell,sounds like my wife lol.Maybe she was one of them.Only joking.

What kind of joke is that? How is that funny?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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How are you doing Rob? Any luck getting hold of OM's book?


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Hi livingwell.I can see some people to offence to my reply about your ex husband and my ww.I do appologuise to them I had a few drinks and my ww is not even fat.In all fairness she would have found that funny.Anyway it's done now.
I already have a copy of his book which he gave my WW a while back and have read it.
He was obviously a great salesman and a reader of people and there needs.He could probably even sell my wife back to me lol.
It's a rather strange book he goes from one thing to another and then talks about god in it alot,even though it isn't a religious book.
He says other things like to get someone to fall in love with you you have to give them love first and to ask them if this is love? and get them to say it first so say think it in there mind.
he had given my wife a note that I found asking her is this love?.

Apart from that things haven't been good at all.My WW seems to be getting worse.
I don't think even when the om dies she will want to come back.She acts like she hates me and is being even worse to our daughter.I broke down to my step daughter and she said her mum had been completly out of order.She said she doesn't think her mum will ever have second thoughts.It is really hitting us hard now.cheers

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Originally Posted by rob68
I can see some people to offence to my reply about your ex husband and my ww.I do appologuise to them

No, we didn't take offense. We are letting you know that behavior like this is one reason why your marriage is bad. You did come here to find out what you can do to make the situation better, right?

Don't apologize and sweep the problem under the rug. Your apologies are worthless to us because we are not offended.

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I had a few drinks

This is probably another reason you are having problems. Please get yourself to AA (an all male AA group) and get help.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by rob68
He says other things like to get someone to fall in love with you you have to give them love first and to ask them if this is love? and get them to say it first so say think it in there mind.
he had given my wife a note that I found asking her is this love?.

That is helpful for you. I think your wife needs a lot of love. More than most.

Originally Posted by rob68
Apart from that things haven't been good at all.My WW seems to be getting worse.
I don't think even when the om dies she will want to come back.She acts like she hates me and is being even worse to our daughter.I broke down to my step daughter and she said her mum had been completly out of order.She said she doesn't think her mum will ever have second thoughts.It is really hitting us hard now.cheers


The fact that WW hates you is a positive sign. I will let Prisca explain why.


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Hi livingwell.Right or wrong I looked on my ww emails today and her and the om have had quotes on special beds,hoists,special showers and chairs.I think this means they are planning on getting a place together and she will look after him.
Which I guess means they will want to get married,which means I think she will ask for a divorce.
I know I mentioned divorce before but I really want to get back together but I don't think it's going to happen.
I feel I have lost all hope now.Is there anything else I can do?
I think she does really hate me and I think the om has a lot to do with this.I know I have to look at myself as well.
I do want help,i really do but I have to be realistic.
I don't want false hope.
I do argree that she needs more love than most,but I can't give it to her because she isn't about.I wish I could have a second chance.cheers rob

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by rob68
I can see some people to offence to my reply about your ex husband and my ww.I do appologuise to them

No, we didn't take offense. We are letting you know that behavior like this is one reason why your marriage is bad. You did come here to find out what you can do to make the situation better, right?

Don't apologize and sweep the problem under the rug. Your apologies are worthless to us because we are not offended.

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I had a few drinks

This is probably another reason you are having problems. Please get yourself to AA (an all male AA group) and get help.
rob68,

Will you please answer markos questions?


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I don't know what question you mean.

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Originally Posted by rob68
I don't know what question you mean.
Isn't that the radio clip of your email to Dr. Harley?


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Yes it is the radio clip.But I don't know what question you mean?

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Originally Posted by rob68
Yes it is the radio clip.But I don't know what question you mean?
Asking Dr. Harley on what to do in your situation.


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Hi brainhurts,sorry i was a bit slow to understand what you men't.So you think I should do nothing and just wait?
sorry my head is all over the shop.cheers rob

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I rang the council today as I don't own my house.They said it was still in both my ww and my name.
they said they would send out some paper work for both of us to sign so that it could just be in my name.
Should I do this? and if I do I don't know if my ww would agree to it

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Originally Posted by rob68
I rang the council today as I don't own my house.They said it was still in both my ww and my name.
they said they would send out some paper work for both of us to sign so that it could just be in my name.
Should I do this? and if I do I don't know if my ww would agree to it


The goal of plan A is to present yourself as the better option. Asking your wife if you can take her off the tenancy will not do that so do not. The council is trying to help but they do not realise that you want to save your marriage.

Did you listen to Dr Harley's response again? Brainy is a genius at finding the recordings. With that link you can listen again and again. Dr Harley's advice was to do plan A and wait it out.


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I have listened to it lots,i even recorded it on my phone.It starts to get more complicated now though.For instance Ww has had a few letters come here in her name for life insurance.
I guess it will be to cover om so she will stay with him till he dies.
Then there is all this disabled equipment that I mentioned in a previous post.
I understand what you mean livingwell about not getting her to sign because of plan A.But on the other hand she could come back and try and kick me out and try and move om in.

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Originally Posted by rob68
I have listened to it lots,i even recorded it on my phone.It starts to get more complicated now though.For instance Ww has had a few letters come here in her name for life insurance.
I guess it will be to cover om so she will stay with him till he dies.

Nobody can get life insurance when they have a terminal illness. She can apply all she wants but it will not happen.


Originally Posted by rob68
I understand what you mean livingwell about not getting her to sign because of plan A.But on the other hand she could come back and try and kick me out and try and move om in.


She cannot force you to leave against your will. You would have to sign off the tenancy if you wanted her to have the house (you don't). She has voluntarily left and has therefore made herself homeless so the council will not even rehouse her.

There are many stories here on MB where a woman has left the home, been dumped by OM and has returned because she had no other option. That does not mean you cannot recover your marriage. She can fall in love with you again.

How is the extra work idea going? She needs to hear things are going well through your daughter or step daughter.


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Got a few extra hours work thanks.
WW keeps freaking me out with texts.I don't understand her reasons,maybe someone will understand better than me.
Last saturday I dropped our daughter to her mum at her friends house.She was going to have her while I went out with this royal marine.A charity put us in touch as both our heads have been damaged.His from wars and mine from my situation.He's a great bloke and have met a few times.we sit around a camp fire in his woods and chat.
Anyway I told ww it was important to me.Half an hour after i dropped d of she text me saying i have left d at mcdonalds as she was having a teenage tantrum.
I thought this very unfair and ruined my morning with the marine.
another example tonight.WW said can her friends d stay at my house with our d yesterday night and then they can both stay with her and her friend tonight.
I said ok.Gave them a lift this afternoon looking forward to some peace and WW texts me tonight saying did u know she was going to cinema with a differnt friend tonight,
i told her why would i know this as you are looking after her tonight as arranged yesterday.
WW said i just wondered if you knew thats all.
I said to ww could you let me know that she got back safely,which she did.
Then gone 10 tonight ww texted and said can i pick up our d as she was hungry and being a pain.I said I couldn,t.
There have been alot of examples like this recently and don't understand it

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just had another message saying u need to pick d up in morning.
No please or anything.i might have other arrangements,why does she say she will have d and then make life awkward?

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Originally Posted by rob68
just had another message saying u need to pick d up in morning.
No please or anything.i might have other arrangements,why does she say she will have d and then make life awkward?


Sounds as if WW is having a hard time coping with your daughter. They are often harder on their mothers than their fathers and in addition I'm sure your daughter is angry with her. You therefore have a chance to deposit lots of love units by being an incredible father. So if (for instance) your daughter had a melt down you tell her that she is not to upset her mother like that.

Well done on getting more work and keep a close eye on that daughter. They get a little sneaky once they are teenagers.


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D IS COMING HOME IN A TAXI CRYING SAYING MUM DOESN'T WANT ME HERE

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Living Well gives excellent advice here, but I disagree this time regarding calling your daughter out on her tift with Mom. Your wife has abandoned her children, and your daughter should not be blamed for Mom's unacceptable behavior. Without making angry outbursts or disrespectful judgments, your WW needs to be told that DD is angry at her for having an affair and abandoning the family and that this is a normal and expected reaction from any child.

Though Dr. Harley did recommend that you Plan A and find ways to improve meeting your wife's emotional needs, you don't have to pander to her fogginess. In fact, you have a huge advantage. One, this POS isn't gong to be around much longer. Her affair has a guaranteed short shelf life. (If only everyone betrayed spouse were this lucky!) And so what you can do is wait quietly on the sidelines and make deposits into her love bank from a distance. When the POS croaks, you will have prepared for your WW a safe place to land. In the meantime, learn the language of love. Find ways to show admiration and provide her the intimate conversations that she has not been getting from you once she does return. You might want to write a very romantic letter to her sharing with her how hurt you are by her affair but that also professes your love for her in a romantic and tender way. When this man dies, she will remember what you have done.

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Hi living well and justthe3ofus.Yes Livingwell has been a great help and has been a rock really.She always takes time to help and has my full respect.But I do agree with you that DD shouldn't be blamed although she can be a pain in the [censored].You are right that this is classic behaviour of teenagers DD age who have had there parents split up.DD school told me this.Yes she is sneaky and 14 now.I spoke to WW for a few seconds when she dropped DD off in the taxi.I told her nicely that DD is her daughter to and what does she expect me to do.I said it doesn't really work when she sees you at friends house.
She seemed fairly understanding and said it wasdifficult.She almost looked like she was regretting things.
I may have put a love a deposit in the bank.
I am tempted to text her today and explain why DD is behaving this way and that we are both in pain.And she is failing at school now.And she can ring the school if she doesn't believe me.
I may tell her that I know deep down that she is still a good person.

I thank you both for taking the time and some very good advice from both of you.Any more advice will be greatly recieved.thanks rob68

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Originally Posted by rob68
I may tell her that I know deep down that she is still a good person.


She needs to hear that you still love her.

Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
You might want to write a very romantic letter to her sharing with her how hurt you are by her affair but that also professes your love for her in a romantic and tender way. When this man dies, she will remember what you have done.


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If I say i still love her She will say I love you as as a person but i'm in love with om

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I thought I would email WW this.regarding the conversations on previous page.


Hi xxx,I wanted to say that I tell xxx to be nice to you.But you have to realize that xxx is angry at you for having an affair and abandoning the family and this is a normal and expected reaction from any teenager.She is angry at me sometimes as well.
xxx is failing at school and I have had a letter from them about her absences .
I know she can be a pain but she's a nice person and she loves you lots.

It has been the most painful experience of our lives.I personally have never known emotional pain and turmoil like it.
But with all that said and done I still love you as much as I always have.Hardly a moment goes by when I haven't thought of you.Rob

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I don't know if this a normal part of this or i'm really depressed.
I am constantly getting suicidal thoughts and becoming more and more frequent.I don't know if I can do this is she doesn't wan't to come back.
i'm scared to death of living without her and going through life a broken man.
You see them all the time in supermarkets on there own looking depressed.
I'm not feeling sorry for myself but can't help these thoughts.

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Originally Posted by rob68
I thought I would email WW this.regarding the conversations on previous page.


Hi xxx,I wanted to say that I tell xxx to be nice to you.But you have to realize that xxx is angry at you for having an affair and abandoning the family and this is a normal and expected reaction from any teenager. She is angry at me sometimes as well.
xxx is failing at school and I have had a letter from them about her absences .
I know she can be a pain but she's a nice person and she loves you lots.

It This has been the most painful experience of our livesmy life.I personally have never known emotional pain and turmoil like it.
But with all that said and done I still love you as much as I always have.Hardly a moment goes by when I haven't thought of you.Rob


I edited out the places where you made assumptions about her feelings/told her how to think because those are disrespectful judgements (DJs). I also suggest leaving out the sentence about the school only because it takes away from the important messages in your letter. Well done!


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Originally Posted by rob68
I don't know if this a normal part of this or i'm really depressed.
I am constantly getting suicidal thoughts and becoming more and more frequent.I don't know if I can do this is she doesn't wan't to come back.
i'm scared to death of living without her and going through life a broken man.
You see them all the time in supermarkets on there own looking depressed.
I'm not feeling sorry for myself but can't help these thoughts.


All of us who have been through the pain and suffering of an affair feel this way from time to time. Stick with the MB guidelines. Whether your marriage survives or not, you will be fine. Your daughter needs you very much.


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Dear Rob, if you are having suicidal thoughts you should contact a medical professional. You are all your daughter has and she needs you to show her how a sensible adult deals with life's setbacks. Even if your wife dropped frm the face of ge earth, you would manage and lead your life best as you could.

Show dour daughter how to hold you head up high in the face of adversity. People do not get to be "broken" by their circumstances. People look broken if they let themselves go.

You have to lead her by example. You don't have the luxury to feel sorry for yourself. You do your normal routines and if possible try to lure your wife back. Get in touch with Dr. Harley ASAP to get advice if you should go into plan B. But in the mean time, the best thing for depression is to have a plan. And do go to the doctor for these depressive thoughts!

Last edited by happyheart; 02/11/17 04:31 PM.

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Thank you both for your response.I will try to be strong.
If I went to see a doctor I know that there is nothing they can do.Apart from medication which doesn't help.
I am not sure if I am in plan A or not,I wrote WW a couple of letters when it happened.The second one expressing love and regret for not doing more.I don't know if WW even read the second one because I put it in with her letters that came here.
For all I know the marriage might be long over in her head.
I don't know if she even thinks DD is some of her responsibilty anymore.DD is seeing her mum later at her friends which will be another disaster probably.

I feel left out when DD goes over there because there is always a house full and there is just me and the dog here.
WW text me today and said is DD coming over and can I bring WW medication over.So I don't know if she is going to start her anti d's again.WW also said I know this is a bit cheeky but can I bring other mans books over to her friends house when I drop DD off.
That gets my head spinning again and then the thoughts come back.Feel very lonely and tearful.Think I better walk the dog.
I don't feel like responding to WW texts but feel it will keep me on the right side of her

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Originally Posted by rob68
WW also said I know this is a bit cheeky but can I bring other mans books over to her friends house when I drop DD off.

Ignore this completely, do not respond

Originally Posted by rob68
That gets my head spinning again and then the thoughts come back.Feel very lonely and tearful.Think I better walk the dog.


I got a dog when I discovered the Fat Slag. Sometimes I whisper into her ear a thank you for saving my life. I think she sort of knows she did.

Post here when things feel bleak. We have all been there.


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I already texted her earlier on saying I would bring them over.It's his own book that I read and there must be 30 of them.I suppose I will have to take them now.
Anyone want to buy a copy to wipe your [censored] with.
I don't understand why she want's his books or where she is going to keep them,or is she just being cruel to me?
WW has even started smoking again after giving up for 14 years.
Is this a sign of anything?.I know om smokes because WW said it use to take the care home half an hour to get him outside.

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I feel so depressed,don't think I can do this anymore.I guess I am not strong enough mentally.Some people can move on but I can't.I guess if I really love someone I can't forget about them.
Don't know what to do,I really don't.Can't seem to get a grip and just want to curl up in a ball and die.

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Originally Posted by rob68
I feel so depressed,don't think I can do this anymore.I guess I am not strong enough mentally.Some people can move on but I can't.I guess if I really love someone I can't forget about them.
Don't know what to do,I really don't.Can't seem to get a grip and just want to curl up in a ball and die.


happyheart is a doctor. She is suggesting you go and see your GP for an anti- depressant. This is just a short term measure to see you through this terrible time. Your feelings are completely normal but you need help coping. Your daughter needs you to be whole and healthy.

Besides, how can you be plan A, the better option, if you are all curled up? Don't give up now!


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I used to take antidepressants and they make me feel worse.There is nothing a doctor can do.There is nothing any one can do that's the reality of it.I guess I am no option at all

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If you are this depressed, go to the ER.

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What can they do? nothing,no one can

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The truth is there is nothing.No antis's nothing.No councilling nothing.She isn't coming back we all know it.She couldn't care less.There is no help.nothing.No pill

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Snap out of it and man up! Go to the doctors now. You have a family to take care of.

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While the Marriage Builder's website cannot become involved in threats of this kind, please know that your pain is taken seriously. Please contact a suicide crisis center in your area, call 1-800-SUICIDE or call your family physician.


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Originally Posted by rob68
I feel so depressed,don't think I can do this anymore.I guess I am not strong enough mentally.Some people can move on but I can't.I guess if I really love someone I can't forget about them.
Don't know what to do,I really don't.Can't seem to get a grip and want to curl up in a ball and die.

You are forgetting your young daughter, who is counting on you to be there while you get through this. There certainly IS help out there and I would suggest you go see your GP first thing in the morning and tell him/her about your thoughts, so that appropriate action can be taken.

If you are not able to care for yourself there are possibilities to have you taken care of. If you have been drinking, then stop that because it will make your predicament worse.

1. go to your GP
2. tell GP about seriousness of your situation.
3. accept help
4. stop drinking

You can take the rest from there.


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Your right,I have to stop drinking and man up.Fit and healthy is the key.Must be strong for dd.

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Originally Posted by rob68
Your right,I have to stop drinking and man up.Fit and healthy is the key.Must be strong for dd.


hurray


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I don't know why I put WW on such a high pedestal as though my life depends on her.It doesn't.She is in the wrong and being horrible about it as well.
Feel much better this morning,drinking makes things 10 times worse.I think I have had one day off since WW left.
There is some good people on mb.
It doesn't go unappreciated.cheers rob

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Do you have alcohol in your house? Considering your last posts, it seems wise to get rid of it now.

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You may want to make some precautions so that you don't drown your bad feelings in alc. Bad feelings can swim you know. E.g. Store your liquor at a friends house.

Not having time off may be a good thing because having too much time will leave more time to think about bad things.
Maybe you can take your daughter somewhere fun next weekend. She is probably shaken by her mother's sudden departure and can use some father daughter time. It does not have to be expensive, but a walk through nature and some homemade pizza and chocolate milk will go a long way.


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HI,I meant I have only had one day off from drinking.Not good I know.DD wanted 20 pounds to come and walk the dog with me,because she won't stay on her own.
DD does need to get out more and have some father daughter time although she is not the easiest to be with.
I guess everthing got to much last night because WW wanted me to take om books and then DD showed me a video she took last night of her mum at her friends house dancing and having a laugh without a care in the world.
Don't know if that is the fog.
Will make a big effort to clean up my act.Thank you both for taking the time to write.

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Your wife is not herself right now. She is in the fog and might as well be an alien. Somewhere in the future your then adult daughter is going to look up to you as the one who was her rock when her world almost fell apart. And I am sure that your wife if she ever comes out of the fog and is honest to herself, will admire you for it. She may not say so, but she will.

Your first priority here is your young daughter. At this time in her life, the beginning of puberty, life is confusing as it is. She is lucky that at least one of her parents is there to retain some normalcy in her life.
You have to stay away from alcohol though, because you don't want her to have to be the strong one.

Of course you would have wished that it was different, but your daughter will go through this life experience and come out stronger. She will learn that even gloomy times will pass and she will survive and thrive. And you will be there to support her. If she is in some kind of therapy for hee anxiety, you may want to inform the therapist about what is going on and he can give advice on how to handle the situation with respect to your daughter.

Importantly, seek support from others. From parents at school, church, neighbours, etc. who may be willing to help taking your daughter places, helping with homework or that you can talk to for emotional support. Create a network around your daughter and you.

You may want to contact Dr Harley at the radio show if you should go into plan B.


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Dr Harley used to run alcohol clinics so he is experienced in that respect as well.
Because you were on the radio show you can always get back at him is you have more questions. Give him additional information about your situation.

Take one day at a time and rather go to a place where they offer help staying abstinent. You don't have to do it all by yourself.


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Thank you happyheart for your wise words and words of comfort.thanks rob

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Then stick with us tonight and find something to do that keeps you busy.
Daughter's homework... For example.

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Are you going to write Dr. Harley a follow up email?


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I'm not really sure brainhurts.I don't know what else to add really.

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Maybe update Dr Harley with what is going on with your daughter? He will have some wise words for you on that.



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You can tell Dr. Harley how you are coping and if he recommends plan B in your case. And can give you good advice on drinking, handling your daughter etc.


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Dr Harley said that, as this man's condition is degenerative, if you want to rebuild the marriage, you basically need to wait this out. This man's faculties are diminishing. It is likely that, right now, he meets very well your wife's need for conversation, but as his facility for that departs, he won't be able to meet that need any more. At some point, he won't be able to meet any needs, and he will not be here any longer.

It's very difficult watching the behaviour of a wayward spouse who is in an affair, but that is what is required in Plan A. Dr Harley feels that men have the stamina to endure a lengthy Plan A, and recommends the use of anti-depressants to take the edge of the low periods. If a man wants to recover his marriage, Plan B is not recommended, because few wives go back to their husbands after it. Plan B pretty much spells the end of the marriage when the wayward is the wife.

The prospect of the affair ending is better for you than for most men, because of this man's degenerative condition. You DO know that this will end some day in the not too distant future. If you want your marriage back, hang on, hunker down, and stop considering every new piece of crappy wayward behaviour as a reason to go to Plan B, which means ending the marriage.


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SC is right. If you want to save your marriage, wait this out.

Dr. Harley said in his Radio program that you need to do what the POSOM has been doing. Woo her! So based on that advice, I recommend you draft a letter to your wife. In that letter, let your wife know that she is the love of your life, and you would like to walk hand-in-hand in a loving and blissful relationship. Let her know that you have learned that your connection with her was weak and that you have learned how important it is to meet her needs. Share with her in glowing, romantic terms how much you admire her and share the qualities that she has that make her so special and precious to you. Also let her know that you long to replenish with her an intimate closeness through conversation and quality time spent together. Let her know that you have some romantic get-aways planned that will be an adventure and that will be sure to reconnect you.


I would also let her know in this letter how hurtful this betrayal is to you. Let her know that what she is doing is the equivalent of seeing a possum on the road at night and accelerating the vehicle in order to run it over. Jar her conscience and hold her accountable. But do not use any disrespectful judgments, don't make any selfish demands, and don't use an angry tone.

Conclude by letting her know you've been reading up on marriage and you've discovered a path that both of you can take to recover from the wreckage of this affair and from any neglect she may have felt in the past and move forward with a relationship that is loving and passionate. End with a romantic statement such as, "I hope you will consider my proposal and return home. I want to hold your hand again and rekindle the flame of love that once burned so warmly in our hearts. Please walk with me again."

She probably won't be moved by this letter right away. Her heart is given to someone else right now. But she will hold on to those thoughts and when the affair ends, which we know will happen sooner than later, she will remember what you wrote.

Good luck.

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Thanks for your help living well happy heart and sugarcane.I don't think I will go to plan B at the moment.OM could go on for years we just don't know.I know WW has got life insurance because I opened her bank statement.Some life insurances have no medical checks for the first two years.I know I will have to wait it out but still unsure whether to send WW an email explaining our DD behaviour and my love for her.For all I know WW my think I hate her.But I will feel a bit embaressed writting A love letter so to speak.She might not react well.cheers rob.what should I do please

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Rob,
You're reluctance to draft a love letter to her is symptomatic of the problem in your marriage. Your wife is in the clutches of a dying physically disabled man because he is able to meet her needs through intimate conversation and his expressions of love. That is obviously a need that your wife has. Don't you think she would rather have a healthy, able bodied husband who can do the same for her? Dr. Harley does, and so do we.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

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Hi justthe3ofus.I think we must have posted are posts at the same time and that is why I didn't thank you.Yes you all make a lot of sense and there is wise words from all of you.I want to write wayward an email like you said expressing my love etc but there are a couple of things.Firstly I am worried about rejection.She may well say it is long over get over it,I am never coming back.I don't think in my present state of mind that I could take that.Also WW said to me round abouts the time I discovered the affair that she doesn't fancy me.She also said that I was handsome and that I would find someone else.She said that she would miss out because om would be dead and she would be on her own.She said when she looks into my eyes she doesn't have a connection with me like the om.WW also said that her son and I had worn her out.also she said we probably wouldn't have been together if it wasn't for our daughter.She did say that we had some nice times and that i made her laugh sometimes.Would I be flogging a dead horse by wanting her back.Lastly I love WW very much but I don't look at her and think she is stunning.I never had the passion with WW as I had with a couple of old girl friends but I saw something in her that the others didn't have,I guess a good kind heart.Do you think I should still write her a letter as you described justthe3ofus?.thanks rob

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Rob,
As I indicated earlier, the reason she has fallen out of love with you is because she lost her connection with you because you did not meet her intimate needs. Those needs are most likely admiration and intimate conversation. Right now the POSOM is meeting those needs, and she is making a comparison to you, a husband who did not meet those needs. But it's all based on an unreal fantasy, and when this man dies no one will be there to meet his needs.

Yes, you should write the letter. Pour out your heart and don't worry if she rejects it. As I indicated, she probably will reject it. But as I said, she will remember it and one day those words may grow wings and take flight. I did this for my wife the first time she had an affair and we separated and divorced. She kept the letters, and I never knew if she read them because she never replied to them. But when we recovered our marriage, she showed them to me.

You've been deeply wounded, and she is close to emptying your love bank. That's only natural. But once her affair ends and you work on your marriage, your love bank and hers will be filled again.


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Thanks justthe3ofus.Just one quick thing anybodys opinions welcome.My dad has been in hospital for the last 2 months nearly.He is in his 80s.Basically he hasn't got long to go.WW sent a get well card.DD told me this.I was quite pleased and I rang my mother and asked if they had a card today.She said she did but it made her angry and she felt that WW was feeling guilty and was just excusing herself saying that she was sorry for what had happened but she never intended it.And that it just happened and that when she gets her own place then DD can stay with her half the time.My mum said she kept going up to see him and she abandoned her own daughter and it was her choice and she could of stopped herself but she didn't.And she was just trying to justify herself.I could see my mums point and they have always been very good to WW and my step kids.My parents helped them loads.Paid for holidays for them,paid of WW depts when we got married.They looked on WW as if she was there own daughter.I can see my mums point.Should I still write a letter

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If you want to learn how to meet the emotional needs that most women and certainly your wife have, you should.
If you feel you want to save your marriage in the long run, you should.
If you want to save your wife from the claws of this snake, you should.
If you keep on course and don't want your emotions to throw you off track, you should.

The snake that has lured your wife under his influence will not last long. Didn't he have an affair with his former nurse? And where is she now? He can only impersonate a decent person for so long.

You will win in the end, because you are an honest, good-looking, muscular, non-paralyzed, real human being. And this snake will literally wither away. How much fun can that be in the long run?
You are running the inside track. Just realize that.

But you must give her the information, that you are willing to recover your marriage from this affair and make it better than before. Otherwise, she will not know she can come back to you when this affair dies. (And die it will!)

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Thanks happyheart.I don't know about muscular or good looking for that matter lol.Bit of a beer belly and a double chin maybe.Yes he did have an affair with a former carer so my wife said.I would love to meet her and asked what happened but I don't know anything about her.I am going to write WW an email.I have nothing to lose.I will put it up on MB so would appreciate any comments.Will do it tommorow.Thanks everyone who has taken the time and effort to post.

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Livingwell ,hope you are well.You said a while back that you could help with a letter that would bring tears to WW eyes.I wonder if you could help please.cheers rob

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Dear ....,

I an writing this letter to tell you how much I love you and to let you know I am not giving up on us.

I still remember <put in some fond and loving memories from when you realized you loved each other>

I love your <put in ample information about her good character like you told us, with examples how her good heart worked out in reality>

I am sorry that my mistakes in the past have contributed to a situation in which an affair was possible. Although I am hurt beyond ... that you are having an affair with another man, I know we can be a strong team. Just know that my arms will be open for you when you come back.

We can have a loving marriage that is everything we wished for and wanted when we <insert fond moment when you decided to marry>. We can make the marriage better then before, filled with love and excitement and where all of your needs are met.

With all my love <please put this in you rown words>


This is a first outline. Try to fill in the blanks and the others will improve on it.
Brace yourself for her reaction. She has a heart and a conscience. She justifies her affair by telling herself what an undeserving bum you are. That you don't really love her etc.

If she reads the letter, she will be touched, but she does not want to admit it to herself. Therefore she must try to make it right again in her headby saying nasty things to you.

If you react angry to the nasty things it would be easier for her to think you are a bum and her affair with OM is the right thing to do.
If you stick to your course and respond with kindness, it will be more difficult for her to justify her affair in her head.

She will not tell you that of course, but that is how the mind works. After she comes out of the fog - and she will - she will remember your loving words. And every time OM slips up, or can't do anything fun with her, fond thoughts of you will creep up. One day she will not be able to push those thoughts aside anymore and she will come out of the fog.

So don't be thrown off course if she has an angry reaction. It is just a sign that she was touched.

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Thank you happyheart, that is lovely


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Thanks happyheart,that bought a tear to my eye i can tell you.



Dear xxx
I am writing this letter to tell you how much I love you and to let you know I am not giving up on us.
I still remember when we first met and used to hang out in the field to get away from jessie hale.And having are first holiday together down sand bay.And you all used to come up my bedsit and we used to hang out by the docks.I remember my dad buying you some flowers.Such a long time ago but some great memories.
You always had a big heart.A truly genuine caring person with a great sense of humour.I could always be myself with you.I felt so lucky to have you.Nothing was ever to much trouble for you.You put up with a lot in your life and came through shining.
I am sorry that my mistakes in the past have contributed to a situation in which an affair was possible. Although I am hurt beyond belief,I have never experienced pain and turmoil like it.I don't think a minute has gone by when I haven't thought about you.I miss you so much,I really do.I can't picture life without you.It hurts so much that you are having an affair with another man.I know we can be a strong team. Just know that my arms will be open for you when you come back.
We can have a loving marriage that is everything we wished for and wanted.I remember proposing to you up glastonbury tor.
We can make the marriage better then before, filled with love and excitement and where all of your needs are met.
I have loved all the holidays that we have had together as a family.We had some fantastic times.although we never had much money we made the most of it.I didn't realize how priceless those holidays were and look back on them with very fond memories.
Even the days out like driving over exmoor to lynton and lymouth.I truly love you more than anyone else and will always love you.It made me so happy when you told me a year ago that you were happy with me.love rob

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I have added some more so any comments welcome please.


Dear xxx
I am writing this letter to tell you how much I love you and to let you know I am not giving up on us.
You have been the love of my life for 21 years.I may not have always shown it but it's true.
I still remember when we first met and used to hang out in the field to get away from xxxx.And having are first holiday together down xxx.And you all used to come up my bedsit and we used to hang out by the docks.I remember my dad buying you some flowers.Such a long time ago but some great memories.
It may have started as a one night stand but it ended in marriage,all relatonships have to start somewhere.
It took me a long time to fall in love with you,but when I did I knew it would be for ever.I have tears rolling down my face as I write this letter to you.It breaks my heart.
You always had a big heart.A truly genuine caring person with a great sense of humour.I could always be myself with you.I felt so lucky to have you.Nothing was ever to much trouble for you.You put up with a lot in your life and came through shining.
I am sorry that my mistakes in the past have contributed to a situation in which an affair was possible.I know my connection with you has become weak and I have learned how important it is to meet your needs.
I am hurt beyond belief,I have never experienced pain and turmoil like it.I don't think a minute has gone by when I haven't thought about you.I miss you so much,I really do.I can't picture life without you.It hurts so much that you are having an affair with another man.I feel such betrayal,as you could of stopped going up to see him and he knew you were married and should of never come on to another mans wife.
People who have affairs justify themselves by rubbishing there marriage and thinking of all the bad points in there marriage.The grass is never greener on the other side.I have been reading up on marriage and have discovered a path that both of us can take to cover from the wreckage of this affair and from any neglect that you may have felt in the past.We can move forward in a relationship that is both loving and passionate, I know we can be a strong team and I hope you consider you proposal to return home.
We can have a loving marriage that is everything we wished for and wanted.
I remember proposing to you up glastonbury tor.
We can make the marriage better then before, filled with love and excitement and where all of your needs are met.
I have loved all the holidays that we have had together as a family.We had some fantastic times.although we never had much money we made the most of it.I didn't realize how priceless though holidays were and look back on them with very fond memories.
Even the days out like driving over exmoor to lynton and lymouth.I truly love you more than anyone else and will always love you.
It made me so happy when you told me about a year ago that you were happy with me and I said I was happy with you to.
love rob

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Sorry for the long response time, I have been driving the car all night and will get back to you in a few hours I hope.


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I would like to thank you sugarcane for talking me out of doing plan B.You didn't have to say what you did.Thanks

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Dr Harley said that, as this man's condition is degenerative, if you want to rebuild the marriage, you basically need to wait this out. This man's faculties are diminishing. It is likely that, right now, he meets very well your wife's need for conversation, but as his facility for that departs, he won't be able to meet that need any more. At some point, he won't be able to meet any needs, and he will not be here any longer.

It's very difficult watching the behaviour of a wayward spouse who is in an affair, but that is what is required in Plan A. Dr Harley feels that men have the stamina to endure a lengthy Plan A, and recommends the use of anti-depressants to take the edge of the low periods. If a man wants to recover his marriage, Plan B is not recommended, because few wives go back to their husbands after it. Plan B pretty much spells the end of the marriage when the wayward is the wife.

The prospect of the affair ending is better for you than for most men, because of this man's degenerative condition. You DO know that this will end some day in the not too distant future. If you want your marriage back, hang on, hunker down, and stop considering every new piece of crappy wayward behaviour as a reason to go to Plan B, which means ending the marriage.


Yes this helped me too. I walk this fire with you brother...read my thread if you'd like. I find it helpful to find gems like this in other people's travels. I too have been struggling greatly. I wish you all the best. And thanks to sugarcane for these words.


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Thanks jimbobalu, I will read your thread.It's nice to know that we are not alone.So hard sometimes.the pain.Came back from walking the dog and shouted hello.Forgot for a second.No answer of course.cheers for the post and the support jim.

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I have added some more so any comments welcome please.


Dear xxx
I am writing this letter to tell you how much I love you and to let you know I am not giving up on us.
You have been the love of my life for 21 years.I may not have always shown it but it's true.
I still remember when we first met and used to hang out in the field to get away from xxxx.And having are first holiday together down xxx.And you all used to come up my bedsit and we used to hang out by the docks.I remember my dad buying you some flowers.Such a long time ago but some great memories.
It may have started as a one night stand but it ended in marriage,all relatonships have to start somewhere.
It took me a long time to fall in love with you,but when I did I knew it would be for ever.I have tears rolling down my face as I write this letter to you.It breaks my heart.
You always had a big heart.A truly genuine caring person with a great sense of humour.I could always be myself with you.I felt so lucky to have you.Nothing was ever to much trouble for you.You put up with a lot in your life and came through shining.
I am sorry that my mistakes in the past have contributed to a situation in which an affair was possible.I know my connection with you has become weak and I have learned how important it is to meet your needs.
I am hurt beyond belief,I have never experienced pain and turmoil like it.I don't think a minute has gone by when I haven't thought about you.I miss you so much,I really do.I can't picture life without you.It hurts so much that you are having an affair with another man.I feel such betrayal,as you could of stopped going up to see him and he knew you were married and should of never come on to another mans wife.
People who have affairs justify themselves by rubbishing there marriage and thinking of all the bad points in there marriage.The grass is never greener on the other side.I have been reading up on marriage and have discovered a path that both of us can take to cover from the wreckage of this affair and from any neglect that you may have felt in the past.We can move forward in a relationship that is both loving and passionate, I know we can be a strong team and I hope you consider you proposal to return home.
We can have a loving marriage that is everything we wished for and wanted.
I remember proposing to you up glastonbury tor.
We can make the marriage better then before, filled with love and excitement and where all of your needs are met.
I have loved all the holidays that we have had together as a family.We had some fantastic times.although we never had much money we made the most of it.I didn't realize how priceless though holidays were and look back on them with very fond memories.
Even the days out like driving over exmoor to lynton and lymouth.I truly love you more than anyone else and will always love you.
It made me so happy when you told me about a year ago that you were happy with me and I said I was happy with you to.
love rob

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Dear xxx,

I am writing this letter to tell you how much I love you and to let you know I am not giving up on us.

You have been the love of my life for 21 years. I may not have always shown it but it's true.
I don't fall in love easily, but when I fell in love with you I knew it would be for ever.

I still remember when we first met and used to hang out in the field to get away from xxxx. And having are our first holiday together down xxx. You all used to come up my bedsit and we used to hang out by the docks. I remember my dad buying you some flowers. Such a long time ago but some great memories. I remember proposing to you up glastonbury tor and how happy I felt when you agreed to be my wife.

I have loved all the holidays that we have had together as a family. We had some fantastic times. Although we never had much money we made the most of it. I didn't fully realize how priceless those holidays were and look back on them with very fond memories. Even the days out like driving over exmoor to lynton and lymouth.
It made me so happy when you told me about a year ago last autumn/winter/spring/summer that you were happy with me and I said I was happy with you too. I truly love you more than anyone else and will always love you.

You always had a big heart. A truly genuine caring person with a great sense of humour. I could always be myself with you. I felt so lucky to have you. Nothing was ever too much trouble for you. You put up with a lot in your life and came through shining.

I am sorry that my mistakes in the past have contributed to a situation in which an affair was possible.I am hurt beyond belief and I have never experienced pain and turmoil like it. I don't think a minute has gone by when I haven't thought about you. I miss you so much,I really do. I can't picture life without you. I have tears rolling down my face as I write this letter to you. It breaks my heart.

I know we can be a strong team when you return home.
I have been reading up on marriage and have discovered a path that both of us can take to move forward in a relationship that is both loving and passionate.
We can have a loving marriage that is everything we wished for and wanted on that day wenn we were standing there up Glastonbury tor.

We can and will make the marriage better then before, filled with love and excitement and where all of your needs are met.

Just know I will be there with open arms when you come back.

With all my love rob


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I have changed the order a bit and took out a few negative sentences about the affair - it should be a love letter.

She will read it again and again - don't expect her to tell you that though.
You will only know that when she snaps out of the fog.

All you do will be pebbles in the water. They sink and are not seen again.
But under the surface, a heap is building.
If you keep throwing pebbles, the heap will eventually rise above the surface. Just keep going and do not be deterred if she does not come running back right away.

She did not fall out of love in a day and it will take time to come out of the fog as well.

Wish you all the best.

Happyheart


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Thanks for that happy heart.First of all I thought it was just the bits in red and then read it through and realized I had to rewrite the email.Kept me occupied with my one finger typing.Very kind of you putting all that effort in for me.Never ceases to amaze me how people don't know me but they spend a lot of time on mb helping other people.Keeps me going.your a star.thanks.

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Well I have emailed WW the letter.She starts a new caring job today near her friends house.I hope that's a good thing and may stop her seeing the OM so much.I wished I never shouted at her.I could be verbally abusive sometimes.But she would never listen,I would say things like don't leave things on the stairs or someone will trip up.but she still would.Maybe I was a bit dominating.I feel guilty.I was nice most of the time I guess.I guess when she thinks of me she may only think of my bad points.

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Rob....one thing i am learning. She WILL only think of the bad points right now. This is how she absolves the guilt of the A. She deserves the A because you are such an ***hole.

This is the fog. You will go through this as long as the affair is going on. I am now plus 11 days....and I have heard it all. She posts things on her facebook about how much she deserves...and woman power....and not to let anyone else control your happiness. It is all just justification.

I know its hard. I am plus 11 days from sitting down and being told by my WW she had an OM.

It's a kick in the gut. It hurts. It;s as if someone died. It's up to us what we do with it. I chose Plan A even though my WW sleeps at his house because she is here so much for the kids.

But I did hire a PI to get me evidence. And I already have some. I am protecting myself and caring for myself and kids and TRYING to stay distracted....it doesn't always work.

Last night my WW told me she wishes I had more friends so I could go out and have fun too....lol....glad you are having fun babe.

You will feel resentment sometimes from things like that. SHe gets her cake and eat it too. Those kind of thoughts. Look at MY last two posts today. I get them...in spades. Instead of saying it to her. I say it here.

Our only course to do this...to win....is to take care of ourselves, improve on what WE were missing...and quietly show them.


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Hi jim,we are about the same age 48.I hope it's the fog I really do.It is like someone died,unbelievable pain and anxiety.Not nice at all.I did read your thread jim and one thing occured to me is that your WW might well be reading every word you say as she knows you go on MB.Good luck with your plan A.Cheers rob

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She may...i can't care. Radical honesty.


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MY WW hasn't opened her email yet,so just sent it again.

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I was chatting to WW friend tonight,the friend she stays at when she isn't with OM.WW wasn't there as she is with om.The friend told me how weird she thought it all was and didn't understand any of it either.She was very nice and seemed like she was on my side,which was quite nice.She thought WW had not been very nice to any of us.She said WW was going to get a place with om and would look after him.She said she doesn't know how she will hardly ever see DD.Or how she will keep her new caring job.I think WW is either very mentally ill or is that obbsessed with om.Either way I think the marriage is long gone in her head even though it will be only two months tommorow since we broke up.I have emailed WW plan A twice but hasn't opened it yet.I am not hopefull that even when om is dead she will want to come back.I don't think anyone will ever compare to him in her head.Feel at a bit of a loss now.I think this is more than fog.What can I do,i guess nothing really.

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Rob; whether your wife wants to come back when OM dies or not is something that you can control. Of course she is obsessed with OM right now. But remember the story of the tortoise and the hare? Be the tortoise.

Her plan to move in with OM and care for him is ridiculous. The equipment that would be needed is unimaginably expensive; I have a friend who is a long term paraplegic and his entire house had to be adapted from top to bottom. OM needs to remain in his care home.

Yes, she thinks that the marriage is gone. That is called 'the fog'. Just keep making yourself the attractive option and keep that door open. You have DD too, that is important. Make sure she can give her mother cheerful reports on how well things are going for you both.


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Hi living well,thanks for your reply.I looked on WW emails and OM has paid for about 3 thousand pounds worth of care equipment and it is being delivered today to a home address.So they must have a place together.I feel sick.don't know what to do

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Originally Posted by rob68
Hi living well,thanks for your reply.I looked on WW emails and OM has paid for about 3 thousand pounds worth of care equipment and it is being delivered today to a home address.So they must have a place together.I feel sick.don't know what to do


What you are going to do is be patient. This gets more fragile by the minute; �3,000 is a drop in the bucket. She will not even be able to lift him. :-)


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It's strange,i felt such turmoil when i posted my last post before this one.
Then this nice calming effect came over me and I feel alright.I'm not religious or anything but feel quite good.Almost as if a higher power came over me.

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I've noticed that you roll with your feelings and feelings are capricious. You need to set a plan and stick with it regardless of how you feel in the moment.

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Thanks for your post justthe3ofus.Not sure what capricious means.
I'M not sure how i feel anymore,to be honest.Don't know whether I feel ok because maybe i'm moving on I really don't know.Could be crying tommorow,who knows.I suppose my plan is hope WW reads plan A then wait for a bit.I guess the bottom line line is you have to feel ok with yourself.I guess I do tonight and enjoying the calmness if that makes sense.cheers rob

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Justthe3ofus,I thought about what you said and your right,i do have sudden changes of mood.and roll with my feeling.I never thought about it before,I guess I must try to be more level headed.cheers

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Cheers? I hope that was a cheers with sprite...

How are you doing? You must know that people are praying for you.
It is hard sometimes, but it helps to notice how you are feeling if you are having a hard time and try to take a step back from it. Distract yourself playing a simple computer game where you don't have to think (I like angry birds pop).

Just take one day at the time, follow the plan and try not to think too much. Getting your daughter ready for school, getting someting to eat in the afternoon and planning dinner for you and your daughter. Helping her with homework, etc.

As Winston Churchill said: "If you are going through hell, Keep going!" You will come through as the one your daughter can count on.

It is OK if you fail or fall down sometimes. But the difference between people who fail and those who succeed, is the difference between lying down, feeling sorry for yourself and getting up and going on. Step by step. Struggeling, falling, getting up, but standing tall in the end.


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Hi happy heart,yes i fall down plenty of times.as for WW.Not going very well.DD has been with her today at her friends house.I told DD to ask her mum about DD savings as she had about 175 pounds in her account.WW sent me a text saying basically to cut a long story short had spent it.Gave me a load of rubbish about she had spent most on DD and borrowed 50 pounds.So DD thought she had 175 but has nothing her mum says she doesn't know where her bank card is.

I was fuming and sent WW a text saying you abandon your daughter,spend all her money,don't even pay me back the money you owe me.how about spending more time with your daughter instead of being with om all the time.
I said i don't know what has happened to you.and it is such a shame and told her all the pain she has caused.

she sent a text back saying i have not abandoned dd i left her with her dad.You know I have not been happy for years.then moaned that I have been getting on well with one of her sons.Then said I think now is the time to think about divorce.


I rang my step daughter and told her.She wasn't happy her mum had spent DD savings and that her mum never has time for anyone apart from om.

she had a go at her mum and told me her mum seemed to listen and that it was quite a nice conversation.

so there we have it.If she wants a divorce then i'm ready.So angry with her.
I did send her a text saying,I know you don't like me much right now,but i have always loved you and still do.I love your kids especially her daughter who has been fantastic

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Originally Posted by rob68
Thanks for your post justthe3ofus.Not sure what capricious means.
I'M not sure how i feel anymore,to be honest.Don't know whether I feel ok because maybe i'm moving on I really don't know.Could be crying tommorow,who knows.I suppose my plan is hope WW reads plan A then wait for a bit.I guess the bottom line line is you have to feel ok with yourself.I guess I do tonight and enjoying the calmness if that makes sense.cheers rob

Capricious means feelings change suddenly and unpredictably without real reason. Which happens a lot in a situation like yours.

What I have found that helped me in times similar to what you are going through is just to KNOW my feelings are capricious and when I feel horrible know it WILL change before too long and just try to distract myself and ride it out. Just knowing the feeling will pass has helped me endure the feeling.

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Originally Posted by rob68
I was fuming and sent WW a text saying you abandon your daughter,spend all her money,don't even pay me back the money you owe me.how about spending more time with your daughter instead of being with om all the time.
I said i don't know what has happened to you.and it is such a shame and told her all the pain she has caused.


WW is in the fog. Don't engage. You are destroying your plan A. Can you disable texting on your phone? If you can do that you will not be tempted to respond like this.


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Thanks anywife and livingwell.Yes anywife that makes sense about the feelings,and a good tip.Livingwell I felt I should say something when she spends our daughters money,I was appalled at WW.She thinks she can do what she likes to people.After her rant I sent a text saying that I still love her and have been worried for her but felt she needed to be told that it wasn't right spending DD savings.She did text back and say ok.She hasn't even opened plan A .I don't think WW has any accsess to the internet as she seems to have a cheap phone now.thanks rob

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Rob, I noticed that you refer to the letter as plan A. The letter is only one gesture of care and she doesn't have to open it for you to successfully do plan A.

Plan A is everything you do during this time to make yourself an attractive husband for her to come home to when the OM is gone or moves on to another carer affair.
Plan A included things such as working more and saving up a nest egg, stopping drink and working on being fit, working on your emotional health and stability, and being an awesome dad. It also includes nice letters, and small gifts, and acts of care for her and refraining from anger and disrespect.

What can you do today to build your plan A self?


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rob68 Offline OP
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Thanks buildsherhouse,I'm trying to do my best to do those things.Sometimes you just have to speak your mind I guess.Do you think it was wrong of me to tell ww that she had been out of order regarding spending DD savings?It is like justthe3ofus said that I don't have to pander to her every need and she needs to be told sometimes what she is doing to people.

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People who are in an affair do and say things they would not do or say in their right mind.

Don't look at her actions and words as your wife's. Look at her as if an alien has taken over her body.

Thanks to Marruage Builders I am aware of the fact that if I'm angry, I'm temporarily insane. When I am angry, I don't engage in discussions anymore and don't send texts or emails. Best lesson I learned in my life.

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Point taken goody2shoes.Although I am not sure if ww thinks she is an affair,i'm not really sure.Because she doesn't live with us and we have been separated for over 2 months.cheers rob

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It does not matter whether your WW thinks she is having an affair. What matters is that she is.

Our advice is always the same; ignore her words and actions. Yes, stealing your daughter's money was appalling but it is a sign that things are not well in affair land. Don't engage about things like that. Stay calm.

Present yourself as financially solid and able to meet her top emotional needs which are probably affection and conversation. For now this will need to be letters if she has no access to email. But letters are very romantic.


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Hi livingwell.thanks for your post.It is just all so frustrating and confusing.
I wonder if the om even thinks he broke us up.because ww said in that text i told you about that we never did anything till I said it was over.I don't remember her saying it was over.Its all so annoying that I have been slagged off by the pair of them making out that i have been some terrible monster and a NO good husband.The truth is we used to get on well really.And I haven't been horrible at all.

It is also annoying that she thinks om is supporting her when in reality ww has no money and he is controlling her.Just giving her enough money to go back and forth to him.

I also wonder if it would be possible for them to have sex if he had viagra.If so I wouldn't want her back if she has been having sex with him.So many thoughts going through my head.

I wonder if she is so angry because she wants me to stop her affair.And I have not.

I know I am thinking to much but find it difficult not to


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Originally Posted by rob68
I know I am thinking to much but find it difficult not to


Correct, go and play Monopoly with your daughter. Enjoy winning while you still can :-)


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I have got a job to remember how to play monoploy lol.was never much good at it.frustration or snap is more my level.I think I have killed off all my brain cells over the years.how are things going with you livingwell.? are you in the uk at the minute?

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Originally Posted by rob68
I have got a job to remember how to play monoploy lol.was never much good at it.frustration or snap is more my level.I think I have killed off all my brain cells over the years.how are things going with you livingwell.? are you in the uk at the minute?


Snap is perfect :-) The idea is to bond with your daughter and have fun.



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I spoke on the phone to my step daughter today.She said her mum has changed massifely since she met OM.

She said her mum said on the phone the other night that she is fed up of everyone feeling sorry for rob and that he wasn't a golden husband and that she use to leave the house tidy and come back to washing up.Which was true sometimes but then i use to do all the gardening, dog walking and being there for our daughter.And cooking food.Don't know if this means anything.

Also i have been putting a lot of effort every spare minute decorating the house and would love WW to see it but don't think she will ever come here again.

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Originally Posted by rob68
Also i have been putting a lot of effort every spare minute decorating the house.


Brilliant idea, well done.


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Things aren't looking good at all.I think I have more chance of winning the lottery than getting my wife back.And I don't even do the lottery.

DD stayed at her sisters yesterday and WW stayed there to.I talked to step daughter when I picked up DD.WW wife had gone but step daughter said that there is no chance of her mum coming back and said her mum was talking about divorce and is getting a place with om.I don't think I can do anything now and WW has made up her mind.I feel so much pain after all those years together and there is nothing I can do.

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Originally Posted by rob68
Things aren't looking good at all.I think I have more chance of winning the lottery than getting my wife back.And I don't even do the lottery.
rotflmao

Originally Posted by rob68
step daughter said that there is no chance of her mum coming back and said her mum was talking about divorce and is getting a place with om


Your step daughter is just repeating what she hears. She does not have the life experience to know what your WW will do. OM will die. As long as the door is open and the prospect of returning to her marriage is attractive to her, you have a great shot at winning back your wife's heart.

Can I suggest you not have any more conversations like this with step daughter? They just make you miserable and are not useful. Keep it light and cheerful with her.


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Hi livingwell.My step daughter is 31 and has a 2 year old child.She sat there with her mum and talked about it all and said her mum had been looking in to a divorce and she said her mum obviously has a connection with om.She told me that even when om dies she said her mum won't come back.And they have got a place together so obviously ww has moved on.

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Of course she has moved on. But that doesn't mean she won't eventually come back. MB is a Phoenix that rises from the ashes program. It doesn't always happen, but we know that your best shot is following the program and ignoring the fogbabble of your WW. Just stick to Plan A and control what you can control.

What are you doing to keep your Plan A strong? Tell us how you plan to implement the plan this week.

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It is WW birthday in a few days so I was going to write out the letter that I emailed to her and put it in a birthday card.She hasn't opened the email.That is why I will write it.A bit worried about depts as I told step daughter that alot of my depts have been paid off on the house by a charity but they wouldn't pay off the ones in WW name.That might put her off coming back.Any thing you reccommend please.Things aren't looking good and I won't be surprised if a divorce letter comes through the post soon

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Originally Posted by rob68
It is WW birthday in a few days so I was going to write out the letter that I emailed to her and put it in a birthday card.

Lovely idea!

Originally Posted by rob68
A bit worried about depts as I told step daughter that alot of my depts have been paid off on the house by a charity but they wouldn't pay off the ones in WW name.

That is quite right. Neither you not the charity should be funding her affair.

Originally Posted by rob68
That might put her off coming back.Any thing you reccommend please.Things aren't looking good and I won't be surprised if a divorce letter comes through the post soon


Debts are not going to put her off coming back. They are not attached to an address, they are attached to a person. They will affect her ability to borrow any more money. Make sure she does not have access to your bank account or credit card.

If you receive divorce papers in the post, come back here for advice on what to do next. But she would need to pay a solicitor. She cannot do that if she has no money so this seems very unlikely.


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No I know depts are attached to the name but I suspect ww doesn't.I know ww has no money but om seems to.So he would probably pay.

WW doesn't have access to my bank account thank god.

I know a divorce is coming I can feel it in my gut.The marriage is also over I just know it.There ain't no way she will ever come back.

WW is a totally different person now.I feel so angry and bitter now.21 YEARS TOGETHER.Just feel like she never really cared.Never wanted sex much and I believed she was depressed,She obviously never was attracted to me,
never going to pay me back the money she owes me,left me with all these depts.I just feel I have been used all these years.Hard to get my head around.She has been so horrible and has the cheek to say to step daughter that she is getting annoyed that people are feeling sorry for me.She feels anoyyed what a joke.


She has no idea the pain and grief and stress she has caused.People can call it the fog but I call it a nasty selfish using person who couldn't give a dam.OM has videos on you tube and he is vile.He looks like some dirty old man.Just don't no what WW sees in him.Very odd

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Originally Posted by living_well
If you receive divorce papers in the post, come back here for advice on what to do next. But she would need to pay a solicitor. She cannot do that if she has no money so this seems very unlikely.
A divorce filing can be handled entirely online, in the UK. There is no need to get a solicitor involved at all.


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Ok thanks sugarcane.Doesn't look good though does it?

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by living_well
If you receive divorce papers in the post, come back here for advice on what to do next. But she would need to pay a solicitor. She cannot do that if she has no money so this seems very unlikely.
A divorce filing can be handled entirely online, in the UK. There is no need to get a solicitor involved at all.


Even with minor children and child support?


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Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by living_well
If you receive divorce papers in the post, come back here for advice on what to do next. But she would need to pay a solicitor. She cannot do that if she has no money so this seems very unlikely.
A divorce filing can be handled entirely online, in the UK. There is no need to get a solicitor involved at all.

Even with minor children and child support?
Yes. My son was 14 when I saw a solicitor who told me this. The information is available to check online, if you have doubts.

A court will want to approve visitation and child support for minor children, but this, and the filing itself, can be done without a solicitor. When parents make "reasonable" agreements between themselves, they can come up with agreements that courts approve. I was encouraged to use a formula to work out child support (I think this was the formula of the Child Support Agency, as it then was - available online) and to buy my husband out of the house straight away, to remove any issues later. If we made each other offers about child support, the house, pensions and savings, that were reasonable to both, we could avoid the cost of lawyers altogether. I paid a solicitor a one-off fee for this this information, and she urged me not to get a lawyer involved, because of the cost. (I didn't go through with this, as you may know, because my husband gave up his job and ended the never-ending affair).


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
A court will want to approve visitation and child support for minor children, but this, and the filing itself, can be done without a solicitor. When parents make "reasonable" agreements between themselves, they can come up with agreements that courts approve. I was encouraged to use a formula to work out child support (I think this was the formula of the Child Support Agency, as it then was - available online) and to buy my husband out of the house straight away, to remove any issues later. If we made each other offers about child support, the house, pensions and savings, that were reasonable to both, we could avoid the cost of lawyers altogether. I paid a solicitor a one-off fee for this this information, and she urged me not to get a lawyer involved, because of the cost. (I didn't go through with this, as you may know, because my husband gave up his job and ended the never-ending affair).


Thank you for this and for taking the time to put in so much detail. Sounds as if Rob just needs to not agree to a settlement for this route to be closed off?

But generally a serial adulterer like OM is not interested in divorce. So WW may be unpleasantly surprised about her plans.


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How are you doing Rob?


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Originally Posted by living_well
Thank you for this and for taking the time to put in so much detail. Sounds as if Rob just needs to not agree to a settlement for this route to be closed off?
She can file for divorce online and not seek a settlement. She seems willing to walk away from her whole life - she just wants her freedom to be with OM - so she might well do this.

Rob can't stop his wife filing for divorce. It will take varying amounts of time for the divorce to become final, depending on her grounds, and on whether Rob contests it, but he cannot stop her filing, and if she wants, they will be divorced one day. The law on this can work slowly in the UK, but ultimately, people are not forced to stay married against their will.


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Hi livingwell.Really struggling emotionally to be honest with you.I miss her badly and everthing I do reminds me of her.Then sometimes I feel angry that she can just treat someone this way after 21 years.Now i'm forgot about after just over 2 and a half months.For someone she hasn't known for very long.

It's a hard pill to swallow and don't think I will ever recover from this.

I don't think she has been happy for a long time and just waited for an oppotunity to come along to leave.


I haven't been happy really but that doesn't mean I wanted to be without WW.I guess I have felt unloved for a long time.Maybe WW has too.I would love to work on the marriage but am not hopefull.


I find thinking about days out and holidays the worst for some reason.Makes me miss her more.Going to drop the letter into her friends in a birthday card for WW either today or tommorow,you know the letter happyheart helped write.hope your well livingwell.cheers rob

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Really hurt tonight.DD wanted me to drive to a takeaway and i said tommorow when we take your mums cards over to her friends house.As i can't afford the fuel to go over twice.DD was cross and rang her mum and said I wouldn't get a takeaway for her her.She had her mum on loud speaker and said happy birthday and we have got you some cards for tommorow and your creepy ex has got you a card[meaning me]And he wants you back.I heard WW say aww no thank you,no thank you.That really cut deep.I feel betrayed by everyone as though I am the bad guy.I feel cross with my daughter like she has stabbed me in the back and can't understand why WW hates me and has forgot about me.My step daughter seems to agree with me one minute and not the next.

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Your daughter is suffering but she must not be allowed to behave like this. Generally withdrawal of privileges is the way to deal with badly behaved teenagers.

I suggest you cancel the offer of a takeaway for tomorrow. Tell DD that her behaviour is not acceptable.

Ignore WW's fogbabble. That is meaningless.


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