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#2894094 02/06/17 02:43 PM
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I wish I could make the subject longer, but I will do my best to clearly explain.

My wife and I have been married for close to 17 years, we have two boys - almost 15, and almost 11.
My wife has had a few bouts with depression / burnout in the past, and has been off work for the last few months with the last round.

In the fall she confided in me that she thinks she has fallen for another man - a former co-worker who is no longer part of her organization, but works in a related agency. She has had no contact since October, but admits that she still thinks of him. Their relationship was never physical, and she tells me that they never had a conversation, that she wouldn't have in front of her parents and mine. I don't know this person, but she tells me he is a married man, with two children, and has never done anything to encourage her. Two weeks ago she decided that she would like to separate and see if there is something between them. My instinct tells me this is a bad idea, and if I understand what I am reading here, I think this is a really bad idea now.

Now for my errors - which I openly own. I have not in the past been aware of the differences in emotional needs, and admit that I have neglected hers. Realizing this, I am willing to work on these to fulfill them to the best of my ability. Provided she will give me a chance. We had a joint session last week with a counselor who convinced my wife to stay in the house for a week, and observe if I do fulfill what I can (i.e. Domestic Support and Family Commitment) of which I know I dropped the ball in the past. I know it is early still - just a few days, but I think I am pulling my weight there. I plan to continue to do this, as in my eyes I have about 16 years of an imbalance to correct. I would like 16 years at least to correct this.

In regards to other emotional needs like conversation, etc, she doesn't wish to have any part of it as she is "too tired" and wants to work on herself only. This rules out spending time together. I totally am not expecting any physical contact, as I understand the fatigue. Although we do sleep in the same bed. Until the week before her announcement we still made love approximately once a week - which has been our normal balance since the boys were born.

I am torn in that I would like to give her the time to help her get healthier, but at the same time feel she doesn't want to entertain a rebuilding process now, or in the future, and is focused on the other man.

As it stands now, I believe my love bank is sitting close to zero, and if we were to separate, especially with her not in a healthy mental place she may try for something more from him and eventually regret it, and feel even more guilt than she feels now.

She decided to tell my parents yesterday that she is thinking about leaving me, and then left the room to be alone. After an hour, I went to check on her, and her response was to cry and repeat "it's too late". I am not sure if she was saying this to me - telling me it is too late, or saying it to herself to remind herself that it is too late.

I understand that this is a long post, and that I probably left out information that would be helpful, as this is my first time dealing with anything like this please ask away. My TLDR question is how can I help rebuild my love bank, if my wife is not willing / able to invest in the time needed for me to fulfill her emotional needs (conversation for example - time together - with no expectation of sex).

For now I am focusing on what I can do - work on myself, ensure that I don't have any Love Busters (and yes in the past I have had issues with those) and focus on the two needs I specified above.

Thank you.

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In the fall she confided in me that she thinks she has fallen for another man - a former co-worker who is no longer part of her organization, but works in a related agency. She has had no contact since October, but admits that she still thinks of him. Their relationship was never physical, and she tells me that they never had a conversation, that she wouldn't have in front of her parents and mine. I don't know this person, but she tells me he is a married man, with two children, and has never done anything to encourage her. Two weeks ago she decided that she would like to separate and see if there is something between them. My instinct tells me this is a bad idea, and if I understand what I am reading here, I think this is a really bad idea now.


If she is wayward I wouldn't believe a word she says. Your first course of action is to validate what she says. Time to get some intel by snooping.

Can you explain more when you say nothing has happened between them, he's married, yet she wants to separate to see if there is something between them? This doesn't sound logical. He's married and that would be a horrible thing to admit; knowing the pain it would inflict on this OM's wife and family.

I smell a rat for what it's worth.

Last edited by MrAlias; 02/06/17 03:14 PM.

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Originally Posted by MrAlias
If she is wayward I wouldn't believe a word she says. Your first course of action is to validate what she says. Time to get some intel by snooping.

I smell a rat for what it's worth.


Definitely a large well fed rat here. Do not make the mistake of asking her. That will just make her more careful. Your snooping needs to be done secretly. Do you have the password to her cellphone? If you do, get some spyware onto it. Test it on your phone first to make sure that there is no indication of what you have done.


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Allan,
Your wife is probably in the midst of an affair. There is a "textbook" nature to affairs, and if you read the threads of the many who post on the "Surviving an Affair" section you will start to see the consistent playbook that wayward spouses use. Sorry, but this looks like a textboook case.

The first thing you need to understand is that when a spouse disengages and says things like, "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore" it means they are having an affair. Secondly, when an affair is happening, the wayward spouse almost always lies. You cannot trust what they say, and you must snoop and verify your suspicions.

You already know that your wife is in love with someone else. But I think that she isn't being truthful about the full extent of the relationship. We've never seen a spouse separate unless an affair is already underway. And we've seen hundreds and hundreds of cases here.

Your first order of business is to snoop. Put spyware on her phone and computer. Hire a PI if you can. Find out more about what your wife is up to. That may seem like an invasion of privacy to you, but it is the first step in saving your marriage. Are you willing to snoop?

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First, thank you for the replies.
Second, in regards to an affair, I would agree to an emotional one, not phsical. I understand, if this makes me sound silly, and I will explain why.
1 she has none, or very little time that is un-accounted for. Up until recently we car pooled to and from work together. She now car pools with a mutual female friend of ours, who works in her office and would not hide any information like this.
2 the man of interest left her team about 15 months ago, and now works a distance away (to far for lunch time meet-ups).
3 I understand that I come off as trusting, but telling about the feeling part, when in fact there was a physical aspect would be out of character, her guilt level always runs high, I beleive her current depression is a result of this guilt.
In regards to spyware on her phone, no can do, her only phone is work issued and controlled, I for example do not own a cell phone. Her social media accounts are generally left open on a computer in the kitchen, and we have never had anything to hide -I guess this makes that a lie.
I agree that her desire to see him and ask him if they hwve a future is horrible. I imagine the relationships this woul destroy. She has told me that he is not happy, which adds weight to your suspicoins.
So lets assume we are both right. An emotional affair, has occured, but not physical, current contact, may be ongiong, but not real easy to prove. She claims there is none, qnd i could talk to her one employee, who knows of the situation to confirm. If I try for exposure, I will push her away. Especially, if there has not been a physical affair, or recent contact and the OM becomes aware as a result of my exposure. If not? Sorry, in the end, to me it doesn't matter, how far she has gone. What matters is winning her back.
Thank you
This was typed on a tablet, so my apologies for errors.

Last edited by Allan_Tweed; 02/06/17 09:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
An emotional affair, has occured, but not physical, current contact, may be ongiong, but not real easy to prove.


If you cannot get spyware onto her phone, slip a VAR under the passenger seat of the car (using velcro) or anywhere that you are likely to pick up a cellphone conversation.

Don't go for exposure yet, you do not have the information you need.


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living_well,

Trust me when I say if it becomes necessary, I can dig up anything I want. Just as context since I know you know what a crack-berry is, her ultimate (and mine) employer is the largest employer in Canada - which for the most part until recently only used BB's. She knows me as an IT guru, I spend my days finding out what other people don't want known - and get paid to do it. It is a pretty good gig. She truly is at heart an honest soul, and would not pursue a physical relationship while we were still together. She has also told me clearly that she wants to tell the OM how she feels and if he feels the same way wait for him (if his is willing) to end his marriage so they can be together.

My goal is to not let this happen, and to head this off. So I don't wish to focus on collecting evidence at this time. This to me would be counter to my goal of repairing the damage already done, focusing on my part. I am asking for help in this regard. If it comes down to it, then I will start collecting, but at that time, we will be living separately, and then there will be no point. She will be free to do as she wishes. Then I am looking at a plan A and B situation.

In short - collecting evidence - if it exists - is counter to the goal. She want to move out, she has not denied how she feels, and collecting, will just motivate her to leave. Instead, I want to convince her to give us a chance.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
She claims there is none, qnd i could talk to her one employee, who knows of the situation to confirm. If I try for exposure, I will push her away. Especially, if there has not been a physical affair, or recent contact and the OM becomes aware as a result of my exposure. If not? Sorry, in the end, to me it doesn't matter, how far she has gone. What matters is winning her back.
Thank you

Hi Allan, welcome to Marriage Builders. It is obvious she is having an affair with this married man, probably physical. She has told you outright that she wants to pursue a relationship with him. She has many opportunities to carry on an affair in the workplace. He can come there if you live in a community that has cars, boats and planes.

YEs, exposure does temporarily push a wayward spouse away, but an affair pushes them away forever. It is irrational to say you are concerned about "pushing her away" when she is already pushed so much away [by her affair] that she wants to leave you.

You won't "win her back" as long as she is having an affair because her lovebank is closed to you. And you will never "win her back" trying to meet the NON intimate emotional needs of DS and FC. Those needs do not make enough lovebank deposits to create romantic love. Exposure is what wrecks affairs so if you want to save this, you need a) get the facts and b) expose the affair.

Quote
In the fall she confided in me that she thinks she has fallen for another man - a former co-worker who is no longer part of her organization, but works in a related agency. She has had no contact since October, but admits that she still thinks of him. Their relationship was never physical, and she tells me that they never had a conversation, that she wouldn't have in front of her parents and mine.

I don't believe this story. Women don't leave their husbands and children for infatuations. I think there is more to the story.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
My goal is to not let this happen, and to head this off.
Then you need to investigate and expose if you find hard evidence. The most effective actions of investigation and exposure are not the most intuitive ones.

When should an affair be exposed?

Statements from that article:

Originally Posted by Harley
I almost always recommend exposure.

There are many reasons for these recommendations, but the primary reason is based on my belief that the more people know about what we do in our most private moments, the safer we am to others.

Another, almost equally important reason for exposure is that it usually provides support for the betrayed spouse at a time that their whole world is falling apart.

Many betrayed spouses are afraid that exposure will drive the unfaithful spouse further away. While it's true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
l So I don't wish to focus on collecting evidence at this time. This to me would be counter to my goal of repairing the damage already done, focusing on my part. I am asking for help in this regard.

WE are not going to help you with a bad plan. I would point out that you have no experience at this and are the least objective person on this thread. We can't help if you won't listen.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
ITwo weeks ago she decided that she would like to separate and see if there is something between them. My instinct tells me this is a bad idea, and if I understand what I am reading here, I think this is a really bad idea now. .

This is a very interesting philosophy of marriage. Does your wife feel that if she develops "feelings," that she is entitled to pursue them even though she is married? She doesn't seem to understand or accept that marriage is an exclusive relationship. She wants to wreck 2 families in pursuit of her feelings and is quite open about that.

Has she had affairs before?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Trust me when I say if it becomes necessary, I can dig up anything I want.
As a person of a similar skillset, I encourage you to not get too cocky. In your investigating, the very skillset that puts you ahead of the game in one sense can blind you in another.

While covering the technical bases of communication that you are good at, don't forget about old school. A prepaid phone can be hard to detect if it's kept off and only used in places where a VAR is not likely. I wouldn't be so quick to rule out personal contact either, which a PI would be useful for.

What prompted my comment?

Originally Posted by Allen_Tweed
She knows me as an IT guru, I spend my days finding out what other people don't want known - and get paid to do it.
I'm not sure if you meant that she thinks your just IT when you are something more, or whether she is fully aware of your extra-IT work. Either way, she knows full well that you are into tech and I'll bet she is more careful than the average spouse.

There appears to be a contrast effect going on here, which as others have said, indicates an active affair.

Contrast effect

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Originally Posted by Allen_Tweed
She has had no contact since October
Forgot to ask: exactly how do you know that?

The point in all of this is not to villainize your wife. The point is to find out exactly what you are dealing with so you can make an effective plan for recovery. In the state that your wife is openly admitting to be in, she is not in a place of trustworthiness. The emotional fog she is experiencing is a very powerful influence.

If you are afraid of losing her over exposure, you should be afraid of losing her over the affair instead. You sure don't want to HELP her walk away, do you?

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She knows me as an IT guru, I spend my days finding out what other people don't want known - and get paid to do it. It is a pretty good gig.
Yeah. And I and many other wives of similar "gurus" still managed to hide things from them. Knowing you are a "guru" will just make her more careful.

Quote
She truly is at heart an honest soul, and would not pursue a physical relationship while we were still together.

Honest souls become liars when they take heroin. Affairs are like heroin. She is not the woman you know -- she is a drugged out addict. And she will lie.

Last edited by Prisca; 02/07/17 11:32 AM.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Second, in regards to an affair, I would agree to an emotional one, not phsical. I understand, if this makes me sound silly, and I will explain why.

Sorry to tell you but you need to pull your head out of the sand and wake up here.

She is currently in a physical affair with this OM. Yes, it is physical and yes it is active.

When a WS wants to move out, that is code for "I need space and privacy to conduct my physical affair."

I've never not seen that be the case all the years on this forum. However almost EVERY betrayed spouse is in denial that the affair is physical.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
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She knows me as an IT guru, I spend my days finding out what other people don't want known - and get paid to do it. It is a pretty good gig.
Yeah. And I and many other wives of similar "gurus" still managed to hide things from them. Knowing you are a "guru" will just make her more careful.

I'm a software engineer and my XH carried on affairs with many women over an 18 year period right under my nose. I did not have a clue. Contact was only via the office phone or face to face. No electronic record anywhere. He finally slipped up on an overseas trip when he used a VoIP phone thinking it was a landline. I had real time access to the phone logs. One single call after 18 years. . .

Each time he got away with it, he got a little better at it.


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Wow,
I have to say this is depressing, I will give this some thought tonight. I can talk to members of her team - as mentioned there is one, who is apparently the one who first noticed the attraction - he is a photographer, and he saw it before my wife recognized it (or so she claims). I can also talk to the person who she rides to work with - and see what I find.
If you are right - and your experience indicates this, this sucks.
Thank you.

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Allen,

DON'T run off and talk to a bunch of people. You might get their opinions but you will not get the FACTS.

What you want here is the FACTS.

As everyone has said, women don't leave their husband for an infatuation. They leave for an AFFAIR. I am sorry to say that your wife is having an affair.

It doesn't sound like we need to give you tips on how to get the evidence, since you do it for a job. Generally we suggest people put spyware on devices, or a VAR in the WS's car to capture conversations with the AP. You can use whatever method you want to get the facts about the nature of her relationship with this OM.

If you start talking to random people, it will surely get back to her and TIP HER OFF and this is not what you want to do. Get the evidence, and come back here for next steps.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
In short - collecting evidence - if it exists - is counter to the goal. She want to move out, she has not denied how she feels, and collecting, will just motivate her to leave. Instead, I want to convince her to give us a chance.
Thank you.

In short, you are WRONG. Collecting evidence is NOT counter to the goal. Unless your 'goal' is to let your wife gaslight you as she walks out the door into another man's arms.

The very first step in saving a marriage in trouble is to 1) find out what the problem is. You actually already know what the problem is, she has another point of comparison. She has an OM. Where you are being gaslit already is the extent of their relationship. If your wife is having an affair, she is not going to tell you the truth about that. So this is something you need to find out for yourself.

For the record, if she is not having an affair (she is), there is only one way to rule that out, and that is to snoop and find out.

So you can see that this is STEP ONE.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Wow,
I have to say this is depressing, I will give this some thought tonight. I can talk to members of her team - as mentioned there is one, who is apparently the one who first noticed the attraction - he is a photographer, and he saw it before my wife recognized it (or so she claims). I can also talk to the person who she rides to work with - and see what I find.
If you are right - and your experience indicates this, this sucks.
Thank you.

Bad idea!! Don't talk to anyone other than a PI. Don't say anything to anybody. Just quietly start snooping and come back here with the goods.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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