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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by indiegirl
And presumably didn't follow Dr Chalmers advice since this approach is not hers.

In case you don't have time to read back through the thread - the advice he relayed as coming from Jennifer was very confusing and didn't make sense. First he said Jennifer had negotiated a "deal" with the WW to allow Allen to meet her needs and if at the end of the three months, she was still wanting to move out, he could expose at that time.

When we hammered him on why that doesn't work - he came back and said he didn't have enough evidence, which was in contradiction to the other things he had previously told us.

I STRONGLY urged him to contact Dr Harley on the radio show - and shortly after the thread disappeared.

I'm glad the old thread was attached for anyone that wants to read it. It's a good thread showing WHY doing your own "Plan A" with no exposure does not work, period.


Suzie, I have posted on a few threads since I asked for mine to be pulled down and 100% agree with you.

I asked my thread to be taken down as WW came home from work one day about having found the site, and knew all about Plan A, and Plan B and exposure (which I had already let slip really early in this process). I didn't want her to stumble on my thread so I asked it to be pulled.


Let me see if I can be clear on this -
I have a VAR recording from the 20th of March - almost an hour long. This recording did not have any terms of endearment - no I love you, no I miss you...
In it I can hear my WW talking to POSOM about what he did on march break, he spent time with his parents. She tells him that she knows she can be alone if we don't work it out.
Nothing that could stand up and not be seen as me just over-reacting. To make it worse (I admitted this earlier) that I had this recording and didn't realize it. Would it have been enough? I don't think so. But if I had exposed in March - with just that? No idea.

That is all I had until August.
Then I obtained a screen shot of a message where she wrote to him asking if she could call him.

Just today I have confirmed that she is still in "Looove" with him, and that they are taking it slow so it works, I have pretty good proof (sorry I don't want to reveal the source) but it isn't definitive - that they met once (I hope/pray for coffee), and she has confirmed to me that she is in contact. She claims that by me going to see him, I "Practically pushed her in his arms" I took that as fog babble until today.
Since I first came here I searched and was un-able to find his STBX (at the time maybe BW) until I finally threw caution to the wind and went to his home. When I arrived at his home no one was home, as I was returning to my vehicle his children came running down the street. I took the opportunity to ask them about their mother - one of them gave me her cell # and address.

Then POSOM arrived carrying take out. We spoke for over an hour at the end of his drive way (I recorded the conversation). I told him I wasn't going away and that I am fighting for my marriage, I also told him I would ensure he was never accepted by my sons, or by her family. Alas, since my WWs brother is now in a relationship that started as an affair (not married so not an affariage yet) and WW's parents seem to accept thier sons new partner (who at the time of them getting together was married to another man)- and despite my in-laws loving their sons former wife... I don't hold out much hope for that.

Is there anything more I can provide to demonstrate that I agree not exposing is a bad idea - and if nothing else my story will stand as an example of that?

And that I truly did do what I could. The posts that you question - I wrote them with Dr. Chalmers during our call, read it to her, and had her confirm it was accurate before posting it.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Thank you - if someone in Canada would like to chime in and provide links to a PI that will track down POSOMs parents and sister - I will take it..

This post indicates to me why your situation is so far gone. You have had over a year to get this information and have done nothing to get it. That tells me that you have never taken exposure seriously. And that is fine with me, it is your marriage to lose and you are the one suffering the consequences.

MelodyLane - I have said this - and welcome to be contradicted PIs in Canada do not, will not, can not search for people just because I ask them too. If I ask a PI to search for POSOMs parents they need a reason (i.e. unpaid rent, unpaid debts, a runaway child, custody disputes...) before they will do this. We are talking about a couple that are probably in their 70s who moved from Vancouver back to Ontario in the last year and a half or so. I assume that his last name is the same as his sons the mothers probably is as well. I know POSOMs sisters first name, but not her married name - and he had no FB friends with this name. I assume that they now live near, or in the GTA - which using the last name gives me 1080 matches in Toronto alone, or 6379 matches in Ontario.
If I assume that the sister didn't get married - or has a phone listed under her maiden name I have 848 matches.

So please tell me what more I could have done (short of knocking on his door sooner) that I haven't done yet. If I can do it I will. The can is limited to legal limits only.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Thank you - if someone in Canada would like to chime in and provide links to a PI that will track down POSOMs parents and sister - I will take it..

This post indicates to me why your situation is so far gone. You have had over a year to get this information and have done nothing to get it. That tells me that you have never taken exposure seriously. And that is fine with me, it is your marriage to lose and you are the one suffering the consequences.

MelodyLane - I have said this - and welcome to be contradicted PIs in Canada do not, will not, can not search for people just because I ask them too. If I ask a PI to search for POSOMs parents they need a reason (i.e. unpaid rent, unpaid debts, a runaway child, custody disputes...) before they will do this. We are talking about a couple that are probably in their 70s who moved from Vancouver back to Ontario in the last year and a half or so. I assume that his last name is the same as his sons the mothers probably is as well. I know POSOMs sisters first name, but not her married name - and he had no FB friends with this name. I assume that they now live near, or in the GTA - which using the last name gives me 1080 matches in Toronto alone, or 6379 matches in Ontario.
If I assume that the sister didn't get married - or has a phone listed under her maiden name I have 848 matches.

So please tell me what more I could have done (short of knocking on his door sooner) that I haven't done yet. If I can do it I will. The can is limited to legal limits only.

What you could have done is hired a PI and taken steps to find these people, rather than make elaborate and never ending excuses why you couldn't do those things. You have an excuse for everything. I have been on this board every day for almost 17 years and have never encountered a BS who was so resistant to finding the OP contacts. Never. Out of thousands of people in many different countries.

Anyway, please save the elaborate excuses because I have heard quite enough. I want to add that I think it is too late for exposure to be of any help at all, I just wanted to point out that your situation might have been very different if a more serious approach was taken.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[Thank you - if someone in Canada would like to chime in and provide links to a PI that will track down POSOMs parents and sister - I will take it..

For example, if it were my marriage and I was serious about saving my marriage, I wouldn't wait over a YEAR to casually inquire if someone could "provide links" to a PI.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
]
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[Thank you - if someone in Canada would like to chime in and provide links to a PI that will track down POSOMs parents and sister - I will take it..

For example, if it were my marriage and I was serious about saving my marriage, I wouldn't wait over a YEAR to casually inquire if someone could "provide links" to a PI.

That wasn't a causal inquiry - that was done to see if someone has a PI in Canada that will do this - I called several PIs in my city, when I explained what I wanted they laughed at me. Please prove me wrong, give me the number of a PI in Canada that will do this.

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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
]
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[Thank you - if someone in Canada would like to chime in and provide links to a PI that will track down POSOMs parents and sister - I will take it..

For example, if it were my marriage and I was serious about saving my marriage, I wouldn't wait over a YEAR to casually inquire if someone could "provide links" to a PI.

That wasn't a causal inquiry - that was done to see if someone has a PI in Canada that will do this - I called several PIs in my city, when I explained what I wanted they laughed at me. Please prove me wrong, give me the number of a PI in Canada that will do this.

But you see, it is not my marriage. It is yours. You can bet your butt I would find a PI if it were my marriage. I can go online and find one right away in Canada that does "domestic infidelity investigations." here So I don't believe there is no PI in Canada that will do a simple background check on a person. Please note you asked for a "link" over a year after the fact.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
And that I truly did do what I could.

For any BS that is following, another big take-away from this thread:

1) Do NOT under any circumstances try to work on recovery with a wayward and think that will work without exposure (even if the affair were to die a natural death).

Do NOT try to circumvent Dr Harley's exposure advice by using the Harley kids to try to work on a recovery plan with an active wayward - thinking you can work around the advice on this forum (more on why exposing a WS to MB in any way is a bad thing in #2). I have been here for a very long time and skipping exposure DOESN'T WORK.

Study this thread: Exposure 101 and make it your bible.

2) Do not tell a wayward about MB (this includes a spouse who has an affair that has not been exposed) - sending them here to work on questionnaires or trying to entice them with the cozy parts of MB (I will meet your ENs and I will stop lovebusting you!) thinking this will lure them back to the marriage without exposure.

It will just backfire on you. They will learn about exposure through the website and they will circumvent you by "separating" and telling everyone the affair happened after the separation or they will tell everyone you are crazy, jealous etc. Just getting you to delay an exposure until after they have a chance to tell everyone you are "separating" is a huge blow to the exposure plan outlined in the link above. The steps are laid out the way that they are for a reason! Please don't think you are special and can do things "your" way.

A WS (even if you think the affair is over or they have sworn on a hundred bibles that is over) whose affair hasn't been exposed is not your partner in marriage building. It is a mistake to think so.



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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
]
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[Thank you - if someone in Canada would like to chime in and provide links to a PI that will track down POSOMs parents and sister - I will take it..

For example, if it were my marriage and I was serious about saving my marriage, I wouldn't wait over a YEAR to casually inquire if someone could "provide links" to a PI.

That wasn't a causal inquiry - that was done to see if someone has a PI in Canada that will do this - I called several PIs in my city, when I explained what I wanted they laughed at me. Please prove me wrong, give me the number of a PI in Canada that will do this.

But you see, it is not my marriage. It is yours. You can bet your butt I would find a PI if it were my marriage. I can go online and find one right away in Canada that does "domestic infidelity investigations." here So I don't believe there is no PI in Canada that will do a simple background check on a person. Please note you asked for a "link" over a year after the fact.

Domestic infidelity - yes they have no problem getting proof that your partner is cheating.
They will not find the partner of the other cheater (ie the other betrayed spouse) nor will they find the parents of the affair partner.
A PI to confirm if WW is cheating - no problem - a PI to find the parents of POSOM - that is what I am asking for -and have looked for before. Originally I asked a PI about locating POSOMs W.


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
The posts that you question - I wrote them with Dr. Chalmers during our call, read it to her, and had her confirm it was accurate before posting it.

Like I told you in an earlier post, you put her in a real bad situation trying to negotiate a recovery plan with an active wayward. I do not believe she had all of the information that we had on the forum and if it was given to her, she might have been confused. The story and excuses changed over and over again - the thread speaks for itself. I can see how that would have been the case, as I myself had to go back and try to make sense of things because I was confused.

Anyway, if one of the Harley kids' advice is different than Dr Harley's advice, I would always tell any poster (like I told you) to write to Dr Harley on the radio show to get his direct advice.

Another mistake that I hope any poster reading will learn from: if your plan in anyway deviates from Dr Harley's plan outlined on this forum (regardless of whether you try to contact one Harley kids for support on a different plan), write to him. He will help you for free.


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[
Domestic infidelity - yes they have no problem getting proof that your partner is cheating.
They will not find the partner of the other cheater (ie the other betrayed spouse) nor will they find the parents of the affair partner.
A PI to confirm if WW is cheating - no problem - a PI to find the parents of POSOM - that is what I am asking for -and have looked for before. Originally I asked a PI about locating POSOMs W.

I find it very hard to believe that a PI does not do basic background checks in a developed 1st world country. I can understand if you lived in a 3rd sh**hole like Uganda or Syria, but Canada is fairly civilized, no?

So, no I don't believe you could not have found a way to locate the OM's family in over a year. You put enormous effort into manufacturing numerous and sundry excuses why you could not FIND the OMW or his family and I am certain if you had devoted that energy to finding solutions that you could have exposed the affair in a timely manner.

People who want to expose find a way. People who don't, don't. Its that simple.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[
Domestic infidelity - yes they have no problem getting proof that your partner is cheating.
They will not find the partner of the other cheater (ie the other betrayed spouse) nor will they find the parents of the affair partner.
A PI to confirm if WW is cheating - no problem - a PI to find the parents of POSOM - that is what I am asking for -and have looked for before. Originally I asked a PI about locating POSOMs W.

I find it very hard to believe that a PI does not do basic background checks in a developed 1st world country. I can understand if you lived in a 3rd sh**hole like Uganda or Syria, but Canada is fairly civilized, no?

So, no I don't believe you could not have found a way to locate the OM's family in over a year. You put enormous effort into manufacturing numerous and sundry excuses why you could not FIND the OMW or his family and I am certain if you had devoted that energy to finding solutions that you could have exposed the affair in a timely manner.

People who want to expose find a way. People who don't, don't. Its that simple.


I didn't say they could not find the information - they probably could. But they cannot legally share it with me - there is no valid reason for a PI to give me POSOMs parents information.
Again, if I was mislead on this, and there is a PI in Canada that will locate POSOMs parents - great, prove me wrong. I have admitted when I was wrong in the past, will do so again.


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
I didn't say they could not find the information - they probably could. But they cannot legally share it with me - there is no valid reason for a PI to give me POSOMs parents information.
Again, if I was mislead on this, and there is a PI in Canada that will locate POSOMs parents - great, prove me wrong. I have admitted when I was wrong in the past, will do so again.

If that were the case, which I highly doubt, I would wonder why you didn't find another way? But I expect you have numerous and varied excuses for that too, no? I don't believe for a moment that background checks are illegal in a developed country.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
I didn't say they could not find the information - they probably could. But they cannot legally share it with me - there is no valid reason for a PI to give me POSOMs parents information.
Again, if I was mislead on this, and there is a PI in Canada that will locate POSOMs parents - great, prove me wrong. I have admitted when I was wrong in the past, will do so again.

I am convinced, and have been for a very long time, that you just didn't want to expose, which explains your inability to "find" people, among other reasons.

You didn't want to expose, did you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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This is heartbreaking.

I think you should move to divorcing her. I don't for one minute believe private investigators would refuse to investigate, but I do believe you when you say exposure is impossible for you.

For one thing, it's too late.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Allan_Tweed
[
Domestic infidelity - yes they have no problem getting proof that your partner is cheating.
They will not find the partner of the other cheater (ie the other betrayed spouse) nor will they find the parents of the affair partner.
A PI to confirm if WW is cheating - no problem - a PI to find the parents of POSOM - that is what I am asking for -and have looked for before. Originally I asked a PI about locating POSOMs W.

I find it very hard to believe that a PI does not do basic background checks in a developed 1st world country. I can understand if you lived in a 3rd sh**hole like Uganda or Syria, but Canada is fairly civilized, no?

So, no I don't believe you could not have found a way to locate the OM's family in over a year. You put enormous effort into manufacturing numerous and sundry excuses why you could not FIND the OMW or his family and I am certain if you had devoted that energy to finding solutions that you could have exposed the affair in a timely manner.

People who want to expose find a way. People who don't, don't. Its that simple.

Hi Allan, i lived in a small African country when I exposed and there were no "official" PIs. But I still managed to find two different people who would investigate and find information for me in exchange for money - even going into the local army base to track down my car (which my husband took). If you are motivated to do something, there is always a way.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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So, a simple yahoo search Canada private investigator produced results in every major city in every province and everyone I looked at referenced investigating cheating spouses.

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For heavens sake.....doesn�t ancestry.com exist in Canada? You can search marriage and birth records and identify people and where they live rather easily.

This is just weird. Is your wife super scary?
Or are you lazy?

But hey, it�s your marriage to lose...


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