Being a terrorist is always a good strategy but do not expect too much in the way of results. Occasionally you get a pleasant surprise.

Corruption usually starts at the top and trickles downwards.

WH wants to come to this country and see the children on 23rd November. My lawyer suggests that the visit take place in my house, under supervision, so that we can be confident he can't steal the children. However, the idea of him being in my lovely house is making me feel really panicky. My mind is running over all the items in the house he might steal - and I'm scared I won't remember to remove all the crucial documents and other things before he gets here. I'm not sure I can cope with the stress. But it might be less stressful than him taking the children away from the house somewhere and me being terrified I won't get them back. I also need to be able to show the courts that I am not preventing him from seeing the children, because he keeps saying I am. Any advice?

The one benefit to him coming for this visit is that we will be able to serve a load of court documents on him, which will make other things a whole lot easier.

You don't need memories of him in your house. What options do you have in your area? Is it possible to rent something for a short time, like a holliday accommodation? A place that is nice enough to have a good time and secure enough that your children will be safe.
Also important, somewhere you can avoid being in direct contact with him.

Make sure the time they are supposed to spend together is in writing and the children know what the schedule will be, so he cannot surprise you with a change of plans. "I want to take you to the zoo/playground/Disneyland, but mommy won't let us have fun".
I assume he will try to change/control/manipulate something during the visit.

Could you hire someone to watch the visiting site to see if he tries to leave with them? Maybe someone at the airport watching departures? I think I remember you saying you could check his reservations.

tl

Arrange for the visit to take place at a local school, church or police station.
And have precautions in case he tries something.

I agree with Goody, you don't want him anywhere near your house. Perhaps social services can do a supervised visitation?

But I suspect his agenda is to find a way to see you. He still thinks he can turn this divorce around. So you not only need to make sure that only can he not snatch OC but also that he cannot find you. Probably best that he not know ahead of time that you will not be there.

Do your children have a phone that you can track (or smartwatch)? Better safe than sorry.

Thanks Everyone. My lawyer is suggesting supervised visitation too - so i now need to pay someone to accompany the kids. But it is better than the fear of him driving them to some remote road border and paying the border guards to sneak them across. And definitely better than him being in my house. Just the thought of that made me so panicky!!!

My lawyer said she dealt with a case a couple of years ago where the father took the children after saying he was only taking them out for lunch. Even though a court order was in place, by the time the mother realised what had happened, and had alerted police and border guards, he was already far into Mozambique and it was impossible to find him. It took two years for the mother to get the children back. That is what I am afraid of. He could drive into any of the neighbouring countries safe in the knowledge that distributing money everywhere will enable him to do anything he wants.

Living Well, I really don't think he wants to see me. At the moment, he thinks he has done incredibly well out of this whole separation and divorce thing because i have not yet been successful in taking his money. So he basically has all his income, total freedom, and his kids are being raised and educated in a nice home environment with a responsible mum - and he doesn't have to make any effort to contribute and his wife is carrying all the costs. He thinks he's hit the jackpot. Sure, he's lost some assets. But because he has all his huge salary and zero responsbilities, he thinks he will be just fine in the long run. But being the arrogant b*$[censored] he is, he now wants to swoop in and do the Disneyland dad routine, in the belief that we are just waiting here to accommodate his every order and run around kissing his feet now that he has decided seeing his children might make him look good.

Thanks Good2Shoes. Yes, I definitely don't want anything of him in my house. We have a court order saying everything has to be agreed in writing, but he just will not do that. And then what do I do? He knows he is creating a situation where I have to say no he can't see the kids because he has not made the arrangement in the way specified in the court order. But somehow that makes ME look bad, not him. He is incredibly skilled at controlling and manipulating. I am actually in awe sometimes. But I think if I insist on supervised visitation it will take the power away from him. He will HATE that idea, and it might make him change his mind about coming altogether.

Hi TL, I can't check his new reservations, it was just the old one. We have a court order saying he is not allowed to take the children out of the country, but if he has managed to get them passports from his country, they could be under any name. So I don't think there is a way that I could feel 100% secure he wouldn't steal them. You can get anything with money in his country.

They don't at the moment, but I think I will get them smart watches. The thought of letting them go off with him is really terrifying.

Hi! I have only written once, but I lived in Zimbabwe and South Africa and still know people over there and I have a feeling you are somewhat close....

The goal here is to make it SEEM like you are bending over backwards to help even though he isn't following the court orders.

Go rent a hotel with good security and tell him that you are setting up a special supervised place just for them to be able to see him since he didn't make proper plans.

So get a hotel (with security) and beforehand go get your own spies paid off to watch him.
Then get a special "nanny" who is actually trained to kick his but if need be to stick around to "help with the baby" for the court.

As far as the court is concerned make sure the lawyer makes a show of you having a nanny to help with the baby- their own private hotel room so he can spend time with them from this time to this time since they have school etc. Really lay it on that you are doing this in good will to help.

Then hope when he see's that he will have security guards- supervised visitation for only brief times-no access to you-he will cancel and you can feign no understanding of why since you were trying so so so hard to make sure he could see his children. wink wink.....

If he does show up and try to run the show always make it "look like" you were trying to let him see the kids but he didn't show up/ wanted to keep them longer and they had school/ are a baby and need sleep and so forth. If he makes a big deal about taking them around town, just go on and on that if he had make proper arraignments that you could have worked it out but since he didn't- you are just a saint to try so hard anyhow.

I hope you are seeing my point. Family court is kinda like a show. Its why liars can do so well. Don't lie.... but put on your show!
Make everything you do seem like it is in the best interest of the kids and how hard you are trying to foster the dad's relationship etc etc.(while actually protecting them like crazy) You need the money for the kids.... not for you etc.

If you have a court order and he works for an American company- you can send it directly to the company and they should just garnish his wages before he gets it to give to you. Its the law here so as long as its signed by a judge- I don't know why they couldn't do this now.

Ill keep watching your thread to see how it goes....

Yes, we are in South Africa now - since July. And very relieved because of the fantastic legal protections for women and children.


Logically, I know this but it is so hard to out-show a pathological liar. This is what he has been doing all day every day for (what I presume to be) his entire adult life. While I have spent my adult life trying to demonstrate integrity, to be 100% honest, and to do the right thing. I am so ill-equipped to fight someone like this!



I really think he will refuse to come if he knows visitation will be supervised and he will be denied the freedom to wow the kids with how super fun he is compared to boring mama. He is absolutely adamant about not bending to what he thinks is me dictating things (but is actually just normal rules of human interactions like making arrangements, sticking to scheduled appointments, and letting people know in advance about changes of plans).


This is the bit that I really struggle with. I have no problem saying "you didn't follow the rules, so sorry!" and putting my foot down - but then he is very good at making that seem like I am stopping him visiting the kids. Maybe now he is trying this act again after not showing one ounce of interest in seeing them since April, it will look better for me in court.


The current court order is only about access to kids and parental rights of OC, not about money. And I haven't been able to get a maintenance order yet because he has not been served with divorce papers in person (despite accepting the summons by email), so I have been stuck in this limbo for months of not being able to access the legal tools which are specifically for protecting women and children in my situation. However, him saying he is coming next week has made my lawyer all excited about the possibility of serving him with papers which would mean I could get the maintenance order by December. And, yes, when I have the order I will be able to garnish his wages if he doesn't pay. It just feels like it has taken FOREVER to get the finances sorted and all this time he has been enjoying his money while I am here with four kids, paying for everything, selling off assets to cover living costs, and forking out huge amounts in legal fees because he is not doing anything properly at all.

Thank you! I appreciate your advice very much

Can you organize something fun/important right after his scheduled visit? Like a doctors appointment or your family visiting from another continent. That will not make you look bad and it will be very clear that following the scedule is in the best interest of the children.
Just brainstorming.

Do they have supervised visitation centers in SA?

I was just going to ask you the same question. Are there supervised visitation centres in S.A.?

I had a friend whose Ex-H (STBX at the time) was granted supervised visitation by the courts. The courts do this all the time and have borrowed (rented?) daycare centres on Saturday's for non-custodial parents to visit in a supervised and child-friendly environment. In fact, when this guy started bad-mouthing the children's mother he had one of his visits cut short. They can eavesdrop, probably listening for things like "don't tell your Mom", of "if I get you alone you'll have hell to pay". All the crap that bad parents might say to kids to turn the tide in their direction. Maybe you could double check if there is such a facility where you live?

I hope when you finally get your $ it will be retroactive.

Chalk, I hope everything is ok. Lots of turbulence in your part of the world today.

What about paying your attorney to supervise the visit at his/her offices?

Hi Cyllanlisa, JanetS and BritsBrat, Thank you very much for these suggestions. I had never heard of supervised visitation centres - and have googled but can't find any information about any in South Africa where we live. However, I did speak to my attorney and she said she will recommend a few social workers who I can pay to supervise the visits in a neutral location (eg, a family restaurant with a big play area).

Thank you for the ideas!

Hi Living well, yes everything is fine here - but quite exciting in the country next door . There are some possible implications for my husband's country since the person who now wants to take charge in Zim has spent his political career profiting from instability in WH's country - and it is already heading towards civil war.