In short, what you need is a) your husband's willingness and b) a PLAN. You have neither. Until you have both, you should have nothing to do with him. Associating with him is a needless waste of your time and sanity.

If you would go into Plan B and get away from this situation, you would develop a sense of objectivity that would allow you to see your situation in a clear light. This has been going on so long that you have lost objectivity and are only harming yourself at this point.

Your husband has no motivation to change and there is nothing to you can do to effect that. The best you can do is remove yourself from this sick, toxic situation.

He is trying to manipulate everybody.

There are so many things wrong with this guy that it is hard to believe any of it. He can not even define a "crisis of faith" that is self-consistent enough to be believable.

Plan B is the answer. Stop involving yourself in the drama. Get away and you will see it all clearly for what it really is.

Thanks for your insight, mrEureka.

Is there nobody who thinks my H is just still in withdrawal and can't imagine a life with me because he felt his needs weren't met back when the affair started, and doesn't know if they will be met now? We made a lot of mistakes along the way of this multi-year affair (because I didn't know about Harley) and I did a lot of Love Busters, mostly angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments of him.

Am I not seeing clearly that this is something Harley would describe typical of a WH after getting dumped by his lover? Withdrawal? (My H did say being with the OW was like heroin to him)

What Dr Harley would advise is that you go into Plan B.


We are not concerned with you meeting his needs, which you should not be doing, but rather with him meeting your needs. He has done an extremely poor job of meeting your needs for years, which is what led to your sexual aversion. Since he is not willing to meet your needs, Plan B is the answer. You should not attempt to try and meet his needs until he makes a radical change in his approach to being a husband. So far he has miserably failed.

Is he still seeing the OW and the child?

Let yourself feel sad and weak, and do it anyhow. And quick, before he changes his mind regarding any financial generosity. If the two of you are "meant to be" you can always re-marry in the future.

No, he is not currently seeing them. He has not seen the OW since she came to town and dumped him three months ago (and before that, it was 2 years since he had seen her..we were in an actual attempt at reconciliation, until she blew up his phone with love texts and he caved). He has not seen the OC for 2 years.

Has has no rights to visitation with the OC--it's what he wanted when the OC was born because (1) he promised it to the OW since he didn't leave the marriage and that's what she wanted, and (2) he thought it would be impossible to recover our marriage, especially with the OC six hours drive away.

I know Harley would say no contact with OC for 21 years. I think my H would have a hard time with that.

Yes I know, we can always remarry in the future. Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I can do it even if I feel sad and weak. I get a panicky feeling but I need to tolerate that.

Basically you do not know if he is seeing OW or not. He is not living with you and there is no way for you to know if the affair is over. There is also no way for you to know what other secrets he has, other affairs or lovers, or single type behaviors. His wayward mindset is so ingrained, he has not acted like a faithful or married man for so many years, it is likely that he has a complete SSL that you do not know about.

The affair being over means that he has absolutely no contact whatsoever with the OW. This has never happened, he has never blocked all contact with her in all these years. Even if they had lulls in the affair, they were still always in contact or had access to contact. So he has been wayward for many years.

You need to stop thinking about how to make this right for HIM and start thinking about how to make this right for YOU.

You would have a very hard time with that, because you would be perpetually triggered. If he truly is not seeing the OW, which I doubt, I would suspect he is still chasing her trying to get her back.

Why did they break up? Do you know?

UW is right, he is doing something which is why he has no interest whatsoever in the marriage.

Things were never good after she announced the pregnancy. I think she felt betrayed because of all his promises that he would leave the marriage and he didn't, even with her "surprise" pregnancy. I think he knew she manipulated him. He also said he loved me and our daughter and didn't want to leave. In retrospect, he says he was actually just really scared--his little fantasy affair world had become really REAL and it was too much to enter reality. He is a very intelligent professional man but he's really got the maturity of a 13-year old boy at times.

She kept in contact with him through the years because she has borderline personality disorder and it's not easy for her to let go. But I think she was tired of waiting and she had a couple relationships after she moved away. The one she announced to him three months ago "took" and she said it was serious.
She wanted him to back off but not break up, but he said he had to break up. He said that the fog lifted because she would NOT "do anything for him" like she always said in all her love letters, but would actually just date anyone else who came along. (I see it as affair fog lifted)

I realize he could still be in contact with her. Or someone else.

I guess I will never be able to know

Have you exposed the affair to everyone? Does your DD know all about the OW? What about your husbands friends and family?

Yes, yes, and yes.
We exposed to all about 2.5 years ago when reconciliation was going poorly.

With his friends, they knew right away. It was a workplace affair and a lot of people suspected. When she moved away and delivered a mystery baby, the gossip started that it was his and he did not deny. My close friends and our common friends know because I have needed their support.

My whole immediate family and his whole immediate family knows. They have all totally sided with me and can't understand his indecision about trying to reconcile the marriage. I am lucky that his parents have my back. They want nothing to do with the OW or OC because they support marriage strongly (Catholic).

Our DD also knows about the OW and OC. THAT may have not been a good idea. She lost her hero--because they had been very close up until then. She actually became very depressed and suicidal shortly thereafter and I'll never really know how much her family life contributed (she was also going through some bullying/being ostracized in school and she attributed her decline to that...and she still suffers with mood problems to be honest.) She never forgave her father and it is so sad that they went from being so close to a dead relationship. He does try--he texts her every single day. She is rarely responsive. He invites her to spend time with him (visitation) but she refuses.

Up to now, during the separation we attend church as a family every Sunday and then have lunch out. It's his one chance to connect with her. That will be ending in Plan B/divorce. I am sad for her because I have to respect her feelings, but she is only a teenager once and he will lose his place in her life for these years...definitely not what I wanted for my DD. Yet I know that's not my fault

Grace,
I'm very sorry for what you're going through. I am glad that you have resolved to follow Plan B and protect yourself from the abuse you have endured because of your husband's selfishness all these years.

You have found a good place to help you recover from this tragedy. God bless.

That is a healthy normal reaction. He wrecked his relationship with his daughter by having an affair. Believe me, it would have been worse if you hadn't told her because she would have eventually found out. By telling her, you were able to give her moral guidance and prevent confusion. It is lies and adultery that harm kids, not the truth.


I am glad you respect her feelings. That is the right thing to do. Poor child.

Thank you, Justthe3of us. I didn't even know when I started typing this morning that I would end up here, remembering abuse and manipulation at the hands of someone I trusted my life to. Facing a divorce is the hardest thing I have ever done. I have had so many moments today where I felt like vomiting but I know I have to push through the bad feelings. Argh!!!! Infidelity s**ks!

Who on OW's side was the affair exposed to?

We did not expose the OW to anyone. She just ended up with a pregnancy/baby and no man in her new town and new job (also high income earner). She has a child from her ex-husband too (just 2 years older than OC) and they look really different because of different race fathers. She has cut that father out of the life of that child too.

I don't know what she told her family about the conception of the OC. For that matter, I don't know what she plans to tell OC about her father.

I do feel sorry for that OC.

That is why we told her...she now has a half-sister and that is never going away. Also she is very in tune with my moods and I was struggling so much, I thought I needed to tell her or she might think I was dying of cancer or something (the same year the OW got pregnant, my mother died of cancer, yes sirreee, what a year.)