Hi Amac, I would vote no to the note. Just let your attorney liaise with him. Do you think it will make a difference to his view of the settlement if he reads the rationale? We are not dealing with sane, empathetic individuals here. They only think of themselves.

The note will probably just make him think you can be persuaded - you are putting forward a case to him, which is an invitation for him to answer and negotiate. If you say nothing, and let your attorney send the proposal stating that this is the bare minimum YOU will accept (I also suggest inflating everything by at least 25% over and above what you really want to end up with, so that you can demonstrate you are willing to compromise by reducing some things), then you are taking a much more powerful stance to the negotiation.

Also, I have found it very helpful to do calculations of a few different financial scenarios pre, during and post-D so that I am absolutely 100% confident that the kids and i will be fine no matter what. I am also in a situation like you where I earn a good salary and have all the family assets in my name (and physical possession - which is even more important), so might lose out in the division of marital property. However, when I feel like WH has the upper hand in something, I try to work out why he has that power, and then act to change it. For example, rather than waiting for a court to decide about your house, and then having to sell it and divide the proceeds with WH, who we know will not use it wisely for the future of your children like you would do, is there a way you can take money out of it (by remortgaging, extending the mortgage, or selling and downsizing if you are able to do that without his consent) and put the money in a trust fund for your kids' college fees or something? If the money is protected in a fund for your children, you might be able to keep it out of the division of assets.

Great advice from Chalk. Print it out and pin it to the fridge!

The sense that I got in following this thread is that you felt following through on your ultimatum was important and that you wanted to put more pressure on your WH. It has seemed that you are desperate (understandably) to save your M - moreso than gaining a favorable divorce settlement. The numerous Plan B breaks in order to talk to your WH about his affair seems to support that.

Why am I saying this? Because you do this every time you want to break your Plan B. Now it's because of the divorce settlement. Down the road it will be another reason, then there will be yet another.

Posters like myself, MelodyLane, Brainhurts, unwritten and others who have been here for years and years have seen this, amac....the Plan B BW who keeps breaking Plan B and never really enters it. You will keep finding excuses to get sucked back into the drama, and we're trying to help you because the result is not good.


Sending the note being a trigger is missing the point. The point is that you continuously think you can talk your WH into doing things. The point is that you keep finding reasons to have contact with your WH and are not in a Plan B state of mind.

Nobody wants you to have a bad divorce settlement, amac. But you have an attorney - use him and the courts. Sending a note or having yet another conversation with your WH isn't going to help.

The whole "divorce quickly for a good settlement" is complicated in this case because your WH is a divorce lawyer anyway. I would stop focusing on that as a reason to break your Plan B and work with your attorney for the best outcome.

Have you read my Parallel Parenting in Plan B post? It's linked under my signature. There are good talking points in there.

Your WH doesn't have a place and hasn't had his young kids for an overnight visitation for months and months despite having a good job? Sorry, but your wanting to use an IM is nothing compared to that. Family judges do NOT like that.

Further, my exWH tried using the non-communication point against me and we (my attorney and I) calmly told the court that he was free to call me in case of emergency, that we had a schedule and that he could pass on messages - there was no anger but a desire to avoid escalating conflict. It was fine. The only real way I could see the judge/court using Plan B against you is if you go into court on a contempt charge of either you or your WH not following the parenting plan and your WH says there was confusion or mix up due to not communicating (this is based on my experience of going in and out of court with WH too many times to count).

You will continue to look for reasons to communicate/talk about/be involved in the drama surrounding your WH - for years -- if you don't work to turn this around, amac, starting with your WH coming up to your door every week. We've seen THAT Plan B betrayed wife here before many times and it's not what you want. It's really that simple.

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Who said it was a "trigger?" It sends the very true message that:

1. you are not serious about no contact and will look for any excuse to reach out to him

2. you are desperate

3. he has leverage over you

You keep telling him that you don't want him to contact you unless he meets certain conditions and what do you do? You keep contacting him. So, he knows you are not serious and he knows he has full control over you. That is not a good signal to send to a wayward.

I am completely baffled why you think you can effectively negotiate with a fogged out wayward. It has never worked in the past so why would it work today?


Bingo!! This is what your attorney is for.

I am no longer desperate to save my marriage. I do not think WH will do the things that would need to be done in order to meet my conditions anytime soon, if ever. I do not want the animosity that will come from a long and dragged out divorce so I would rather get it done quickly. If he ever changes great, no law that says we can't remarry but for now I want this done.

Yes I have read the parallel parenting link, thank you that was useful and I told my attorney that was my intent. He said the courts here don't like it, but coincidentally I have gotten in touch with an old poster, who has been doing plan B and parallel parenting in my county so I'm hopeful I can get some guidance from her.

This completely misses my point but I am pretty sure you know that. Your letter - along with continued contact - gives that impression. A very bad impression to impart in the best of circumstance; even worse in a bad situation with an entitled wayward.

Most courts don't like it because their objective is to facilitate the easiest divorce possible. It will be up to you to influence your attorney to protect your interests. No one else will do it for you sadly.

Ok, I'm sending the proposal without a note from me!! Thank you for all your input. As you can tell, I am not a person who is easily persuaded to do something contrary to what I think I should do so that is no small feat.

I did list quite a few talking points for the attorney to include in a cover letter with the proposal (in his own words), so we shall see.

Thanks Chalk, your advice finally made sense to my as I tossed and turned last night and am not including any note and am having my attorney bargain from the position "of course you would give these things because its best for the children." Clearly he does not care much for them based on his actions but WH cares alot about appearances and I think it will be hard for him to admit to someone in his own profession he wants to take the roof from his children's head. But we'll see... If he agrees to these things it would give me alot more peace and stability about the future, but if not I know I will figure out how to make things work out so its not the end of the world.

Perfect! See how you found a solution without breaking Plan B? You did good!

One of the great things about this forum is that you have people who a) have been through this, b) have been here for years and seen every imaginable situation and c) have an objective view of your situation that you don't possess.

We have the ability to see your situation objectively and offer a strategic approach rather than an emotional approach. We all know and understand how intensely emotional this situation is for you.

Yes, I am so grateful for that. I think I am starting to be aware of my own fog. It was so clear to me last night what a bad idea sending a note was, but so strange how even hours before I was so certain of it. Thats fog for you.

Amac, I can identify with this. I'm one that likes to communicate, both written and in person. Fortunately the pros here have helped me avoid strategic mistakes, by pointing out when my painstakingly worded and edited letters would be lost on WW. It's difficult to say less when a BS wants to say so much more. But less is really better with waywards, because not much of anything gets through the fog.

As Melody said, they have been through this themselves, and they have seen it all in the many years they have been helping people They have objective reactions because they are not emotionally invested. It can be difficult for someone with strong opinions to take a course of action that is recommended by others. But your own experience has not prepared you for this, none of us were prepared for it. Continue to listen to the pros here, they will guide you to the best strategy!

Now...what about the issue of drop offs and seeing your WH that we have been nagging you about for months now?

WH is supposed to have the kids for most of the day (2-7:30) on Sundays. He told my IM at 12 that he wouldn't be able to get the kids today. That means he has seen them for a grand total of 2 hours this week. Gave no reason and when my IM told him I had plans he didn't even respond. This is a divorce lawyer who has not responded to his own divorce, who has not had his kids overnight in 3 months, who is still presumably sleeping on someones couch, and is now flaking on the little custody time he has knowing full well how that is going to look for him in the long run. I'm almost offended that he doesn't even bother lying anymore. Is this part of the downward spiral of a wayward? Whats next?

I was pretty angry about this at first, but the anger didn't last long. Again more validation that none of this is about me. If we truly had a bad marriage and he happened to find his soulmate in his affair then wouldn't now being free of the burden of our relationship make him a better man and father? What is the most upsetting to me about this whole situation is not that I have lost my husband, but that my children have lost their father. My IC said to me, well just because someone gets divorced that doesn't mean they can't be a good father. Which I would agree with, but infidelity is a different animal. I have not seen any examples of a cheating father where he was a better father (or even a good one) if the marriage ended in divorce. If they exist I would be happy to hear it. I predict my WH will be a broken man for the rest of his life which makes me so sad, and was one of my reasons for fighting so hard. I don't want that for him or my kids and I know that redeeming himself with me is the only way to prevent that.

I am sure there might be examples of wayward fathers who have abandoned their families for an adulterous affair with a married woman who are Fathers of the Year, but I have just not run across one in my 17 years here. Strange.....

Say what? Amac, my friend, have you been reading Teen Vogue? First off, what is a "soulmate?" It must be a rotten soul if they are committing adultery. You don't believe this foolishness, do you?