Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
S
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
It's like I want to find more proof that the affair has gone on as bluntly as possible since the 2nd no contact request. But it's going to be damn hard to find proof since they are now both on high alert I'm sure. I need to find a way to get some proof.

There's a sliver of doubt in me that my wife is truly the only one currently in the fog and there's no doubt she loves him but I just don't have all the proof I want over the past month that he has the same feelings. I just am so torn right now.

I really want to find proof that is concrete and has existed over the past month.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Do you have any spyware installed on her devices?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
S
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
Nope, no access into her iPad or iPhone. Have been locked down for a few months now and I cannot get in. I even tried 2 weeks ago to get in via the Siri Cellular data hack but it must have been patched with an update or something.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
It's like I want to find more proof that the affair has gone on as bluntly as possible since the 2nd no contact request. But it's going to be damn hard to find proof since they are now both on high alert I'm sure. I need to find a way to get some proof.

There's a sliver of doubt in me that my wife is truly the only one currently in the fog and there's no doubt she loves him but I just don't have all the proof I want over the past month that he has the same feelings. I just am so torn right now.

I really want to find proof that is concrete and has existed over the past month.

The fact that they are still in contact is plenty of proof. You can't turn a romance into a friendship.

All you need is a) proof there was an affair and b) contact continues. She can call it a "friendship" or even a baloney sandwich, but it is still an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
Nope, no access into her iPad or iPhone. Have been locked down for a few months now and I cannot get in. I even tried 2 weeks ago to get in via the Siri Cellular data hack but it must have been patched with an update or something.

CAn you get a voice activated recorder in her car?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Spying will help but don't get distracted from exposing the hell out of this affair. You need to run this guy off.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 606
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 606
If this your WW "has" to have contact with him through work because he places orders with her, it means one of two things: 1) he works in her company and places customer orders through her for fulfillment, or 2) he works for a customer and is placing orders on behalf of his company. In the first instance, they both work for the same company and the company is at risk for a sexual harassment case from her or him if the relationship goes south OR from their coworkers if they carry on their relationship int he workplace. The second instance is just as serious because it creates a conflict of interest for both of them and opens both companies to allegations of kickbacks, fraud, etc. You may want to consider reporting the inappropriate relationship to the Human Resources Department or the Compliance Office/Compliance Hotline for the company/companies, whichever the case may be.

There is a letter I drafted that for use when notifying Human Resources/Compliance about workplace relationships. If they work for separate companies, it would need to be tweaked a bit to cover this situation. I am not good at all searching for previous posts, so perhaps MelodyLane could link it here in your thread.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat from the Exposure thread
Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,
It's in the exposure thread Exposure 101


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
S
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
Since I have last posted;

Last Friday - this was 2 days after exposing to OMW that gave me about as much help as a rock. I came home and wife is not really in a great mood, not uncommon over the last few months obviously. She was short with me but I was friendly, I stopped the one week 180 and went back to what I have been doing for the last 5 months is showing her kindness and love and trying to be open and honest. She was taking down Halloween decorations, I helped but she said, I don't need help, find something else to do. A little while later, she came down with her pants off, this is not uncommon either because that's how she is comfortable, shirt, underwear, etc. Later that night she sat on the couch and I sat at the kitchen table. She asked me how I plan going about making this better. I go up and sit next to her on the couch and she says DONT YOU DARE SIT NEXT TO Me and starts to cry a bit. She goes into how she was wearing those underwear and I didn't make one good comment. She goes into me not trying anything over the last 4 months. I respond by telling her she flat out told me she didn't want anything to do with me in any of those regards so I was respecting her wishes and explained how I have been giving her unconditional love. She goes, oh yeah, it's all me isn't it? I then go into how all I ever wanted was to be loving and intimate with her and she yells, well why haven't you done anything about it and says F YOU and flips me off (not common). She starts crying and says, no matter, I have made my decision, I'm done, I'm done. I tell her, please don't be done and let's give this 2 months of all we got. She doesn't really respond but then my daughter walks up and we end the convo. I talk to her Dad that night and he agrees that she tried to set up a trap for me. She is working on justifying why she wants to leave and to make her feel better about herself by blaming me for everything even though she has not made an effort.

Saturday, the next day - I re-open the conversation and ask where we go from here and to give it 2 months of no holds barred working on things. She says you work on you and I'll work on me. She said she is going to go to counseling to see why she feels the way she does about me (why she can't look at me), why she is so unhappy and doesn't want to come home. I ask her about being her rock in the past and being her protector, she just shakes her head and says she is her own protector now.

In Summary - she is continuing to re-write our marriage in her own mind and she is telling everyone that it's the fact that there's no love and nothing left in our marriage that's why she wants to leave and is saying she is not having an affair and he's not the reason why. She has stated to me after the exposure day that she will not give up being 'friends' with him. Her dad came over on Sunday to talk to her and tell her she can't treat me like this anymore but also said to him she will not break contact with her 'friend' and it's nothing more than a friendship. She told him she would stop playing mind games with me.

Since then, she has not been real friendly and seems to criticize or question every decision I make, as if she's ready to pounce. The mornings are 'ok' she seems more friendly, cordial then but after work, she's unhappy and short. She hasn't taken her wedding ring off since Saturday though, so that's a plus, at least in my presence anyway. She told me she has a 'plan'. She's not leaving me tomorrow and that she is going to counseling. She's going tomorrow but I found out it's a free counseling service over the phone and the Counselor is not an expert on relationships but has the following credentials;

Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner, ARNP, PMHNP
Specialties

Medication Management
Issues
ADHD
Anxiety
Bipolar Disorder
Depression
Obsessive-Compulsive (OCD)
Schizophrenia
Trauma and PTSD

At this point, I'm not thrilled with the choice but it's better than nothing. I feel our marriage has had true love but my wife is trying to convince herself otherwise, whether it's through guilt or just wanting to escape because she is in such a fog with this man.

She has posted a lot of her true emotions that I know are pointed or deal with him on Pinterest but since has settled down since I called her out on it, saying it feels like a slap in the face to me by what she pins because I know it's not about me.

Last night she posted this and her father and I agree, this was directed to her feelings about him.

"The mind replays what the heart can't delete"

Before that a lot of her pins were about who you should be with and what love should look like and feel like;

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
You are wasting our time and your time with this nonsense. Have you followed any of the advice given in the posts? This is not a blogging forum to blog about your own failed planning, but a forum that is dedicated to helping people follow the MB program. It sounds like you are here to blog about Plan stillfightingfor rather than follow our program.

Counseling is cute and trendy, but is a major distraction from resolving your marriage problems. Do you want help or not? If not, let us know so the mods can lock this thread.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
Since I have last posted;

Last Friday - this was 2 days after exposing to OMW that gave me about as much help as a rock. I came home and wife is not really in a great mood, not uncommon over the last few months obviously. She was short with me but I was friendly, I stopped the one week 180 and went back to what I have been doing for the last 5 months is showing her kindness and love and trying to be open and honest. She was taking down Halloween decorations, I helped but she said, I don't need help, find something else to do. A little while later, she came down with her pants off, this is not uncommon either because that's how she is comfortable, shirt, underwear, etc. Later that night she sat on the couch and I sat at the kitchen table. She asked me how I plan going about making this better. I go up and sit next to her on the couch and she says DONT YOU DARE SIT NEXT TO Me and starts to cry a bit. She goes into how she was wearing those underwear and I didn't make one good comment. She goes into me not trying anything over the last 4 months. I respond by telling her she flat out told me she didn't want anything to do with me in any of those regards so I was respecting her wishes and explained how I have been giving her unconditional love. She goes, oh yeah, it's all me isn't it? I then go into how all I ever wanted was to be loving and intimate with her and she yells, well why haven't you done anything about it and says F YOU and flips me off (not common). She starts crying and says, no matter, I have made my decision, I'm done, I'm done. I tell her, please don't be done and let's give this 2 months of all we got. She doesn't really respond but then my daughter walks up and we end the convo. I talk to her Dad that night and he agrees that she tried to set up a trap for me. She is working on justifying why she wants to leave and to make her feel better about herself by blaming me for everything even though she has not made an effort.

Saturday, the next day - I re-open the conversation and ask where we go from here and to give it 2 months of no holds barred working on things. She says you work on you and I'll work on me. She said she is going to go to counseling to see why she feels the way she does about me (why she can't look at me), why she is so unhappy and doesn't want to come home. I ask her about being her rock in the past and being her protector, she just shakes her head and says she is her own protector now.

In Summary - she is continuing to re-write our marriage in her own mind and she is telling everyone that it's the fact that there's no love and nothing left in our marriage that's why she wants to leave and is saying she is not having an affair and he's not the reason why. She has stated to me after the exposure day that she will not give up being 'friends' with him. Her dad came over on Sunday to talk to her and tell her she can't treat me like this anymore but also said to him she will not break contact with her 'friend' and it's nothing more than a friendship. She told him she would stop playing mind games with me.

Since then, she has not been real friendly and seems to criticize or question every decision I make, as if she's ready to pounce. The mornings are 'ok' she seems more friendly, cordial then but after work, she's unhappy and short. She hasn't taken her wedding ring off since Saturday though, so that's a plus, at least in my presence anyway. She told me she has a 'plan'. She's not leaving me tomorrow and that she is going to counseling. She's going tomorrow but I found out it's a free counseling service over the phone and the Counselor is not an expert on relationships but has the following credentials;

Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner, ARNP, PMHNP
Specialties

Medication Management
Issues
ADHD
Anxiety
Bipolar Disorder
Depression
Obsessive-Compulsive (OCD)
Schizophrenia
Trauma and PTSD

At this point, I'm not thrilled with the choice but it's better than nothing. I feel our marriage has had true love but my wife is trying to convince herself otherwise, whether it's through guilt or just wanting to escape because she is in such a fog with this man.

She has posted a lot of her true emotions that I know are pointed or deal with him on Pinterest but since has settled down since I called her out on it, saying it feels like a slap in the face to me by what she pins because I know it's not about me.

Last night she posted this and her father and I agree, this was directed to her feelings about him.

"The mind replays what the heart can't delete"

Before that a lot of her pins were about who you should be with and what love should look like and feel like;

This is all garbage that will do nothing to save your marriage. It is a huge distraction from the necessary steps to save your marriage. We already know how your wife feels, so posting this fogbabble does nothing to help your situation. In the time it took to post this meaningless babble, you could have been taking effective steps that were suggested in this thread.

We saved our marriages following these steps; we didn't save them by blogging about irrelevancies.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
S
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
I have bought Surviving An Affair yesterday and read it, going to re-read it slowly again and I purchased Love Busters today (Instant Nook Purchases).

I guess I should have asked questions in my last post of what I'm trying to get at.

I'm working on further exposure as recommended but I'm wondering what your advice is on the fact that she refuses to give up contact with him. I don't think she talks to him that much but even if it's a little bit I know it keeps the love fresh in her heart/mind. Should I continue to press her to give up contact and work on exposure and filling her love bucket or is the no-contact thing a deal breaker for all the rest.

Was also wondering if you think the counseling on her own will be genuine to figuring out why she is feeling this way and to get to the root of her depression and self esteem issues that were pre-existing to our marriage?

Last question, should I have her own family apply more pressure and call her out on her lies to them?

Thanks!

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
I have bought Surviving An Affair yesterday and read it, going to re-read it slowly again and I purchased Love Busters today (Instant Nook Purchases).

I guess I should have asked questions in my last post of what I'm trying to get at.

I'm working on further exposure as recommended but I'm wondering what your advice is on the fact that she refuses to give up contact with him. I don't think she talks to him that much but even if it's a little bit I know it keeps the love fresh in her heart/mind. Should I continue to press her to give up contact and work on exposure and filling her love bucket or is the no-contact thing a deal breaker for all the rest.

You should expose the affair as we suggested. Please re-read our posts and follow the instructions for exposure. You need to expose first and then tell her that she will have to quit that job in order for your marriage to recover.

Quote
Was also wondering if you think the counseling on her own will be genuine to figuring out why she is feeling this way and to get to the root of her depression and self esteem issues that were pre-existing to our marriage?

Counseling will be a disaster for your marriage. Counselors know nothing about marriages and will encourage her to follow her heart and you will likely end up divorced. Affairs cause depression and low self esteem. So remove the affair and THEN look into depression management.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
S
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
Thank you, I'm back on Chapter 6 as well to re-read (Continues To Contact Lover)

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
Thank you, I'm back on Chapter 6 as well to re-read (Continues To Contact Lover)

What about your exposures? I think it is great you are reading a book, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to put off the necessary steps.

Did you read our posts?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Please put aside the book and read our posts, followed by these 2 threads:

When Should an Affair Be Exposed?

Exposure 101


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
S
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
Thank you, I am being hesitant you are right. I'll set aside the book and delve back into the two critical threads!

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
Thank you, I am being hesitant you are right. I'll set aside the book and delve back into the two critical threads!

Good man!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
A word of caution about counseling. Counseling is destructive to marriages; it will be very hard to overcome the damage caused by a counselor so I would strongly suggest you avoid that. When the counselor gives her advice that is destructive to your marriage [as they always do] it will be very hard, if not impossible to overcome that.

You have enough problems as it is, please don't add another layer of problems.

This is a longshot, but your best hope comes from getting her out of that job. Your best chance at doing that is exposing the hell out of the affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 789
Likes: 4
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 789
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by stillfightingfor
Thank you, I am being hesitant you are right. I'll set aside the book and delve back into the two critical threads!
People who come here for help can be roughy divided in 2 groups: the ones that take the advice immediately and the ones that in retrospect regret not taking the advice immediately.

Although I encourage you to also read threads of others who survived infidelity, read the book SAA and all the articles on the website, I strongly urge you to act asap and prepare exposure. With the help of this forum, you will be guided step by step to recovery.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,116 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5