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For months my husband denied all accounts of an affair. I asked him SEVERAL times about text messages. Over an almost two month period, he continually denied any messages. He was deleting all of the messages. Messaging had been going on for at least 6 months. He is not a techy guy and relatively new to his iphone. So when text messages were deleted he yelled �I wish you would believe me I don�t know how to run that thing�. His affair partner was a Christian Reform and he defended himself by using that she is religious as a defense. He originally said they were �just friends�. I found out he was driving by her place, and he lied about that too. He met with her and he lied about that too. Many lies about many things.
But I hacked into his phone with Wondershare. (Thank you to this forum) And found out the truth, or some of the truth�I am not sure.
I found months of parts of messages, often incomplete and no dates etc. I did find out that they had been sexting, nearly every day. Found that she was sending pictures in her bikini and her bra. Found out he ahd been driving by her place and that they had met a couple of times, to fondle one another.
I confronted him and he admitted the things I found out, but he has not really provided any additional information. He insists that it was only fondling, but that they did bring each other to orgasm (I found that out). He denies any kissing, any oral sex, or intercourse.
We are reconciling and working on our marriage. Seeing a counselor and read a few books. I feel that he is not telling me everything. I have a hard time believing that I accidentally found EVERYTHING out. Also that they were not kissing. Sexting revealed fantasy of oral sex but nothing to confirm it. He says I know everything but I am having a hard time believing this. I have questioned him SEVERAL times and he consistently denies it. But he consistently denied the affair to begin with.
He is completely transparent now. But how do I know that I have all of the details of what did happen? Or should I not be concerned? I feel I should know how far it went. But I feel that if I can�t find proof I will never know? And never believe him? Or do I just assume the worst.
We are building trust back, but only because I can confirm and find proof to back up what he says, I assume that that is going to be the way for a while until I get comfortable that he is back on the right track.

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Hi mamabear, yes he is lying. But he can prove his truthfulness by taking a polygraph test. A marriage cannot be rebuilt on lies. So your recovery will not start until that happens. You shouldn't ever trust him until he is trustworthy. His stories about no intercourse, oral sex or kissing are ridiculous lies. You already know he had sex with her so it is just stupid to gloss over what happened.

Is the OW married? Does he ever have contact with her? Has the affair been exposed to friends and family?

Most marriages do not recover from infidelity until they take very specific steps to avoid another affair. That has not happened here. You will just limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage until he has another affair.

Please look over this checklist and let us know what you have done so far:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It also sounds like you don't really have a plan for recovery if you are reading lots of books and going to a marriage counselor. Marriage Builders is completely different from other marriage programs in that it has a very effective, rational, step by step approach to saving marriages. Here is a basic outline of the program:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

<snip unrelated>

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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We have done all of this list, except he really didn't provide much information, When I recovered his deleted messages I told him I had 'seen them all' and that I 'know everything that happened' then he confessed he had 'rubbed her' as I asked more questions she supplied more answers but not very free with the information.

The other thing we have not done is expose it. For several reasons. But we do want to keep this private.

I do not know that they had intercourse, they 'rubbed' each other with their hands.

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Originally Posted by mamabear22
We have done all of this list, except he really didn't provide much information, When I recovered his deleted messages I told him I had 'seen them all' and that I 'know everything that happened' then he confessed he had 'rubbed her' as I asked more questions she supplied more answers but not very free with the information.

So far he has not done Step one on the list, which is to be honest. You don't believe him because his story is ridiculous.

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The other thing we have not done is expose it. For several reasons. But we do want to keep this private.

This is the first and most important first step. Keeping an affair a secret causes damage to everyone involved, most especially to the recovery of your marriage. The affair should be exposed to everyone. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable.

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."

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I do not know that they had intercourse, they 'rubbed' each other with their hands.

You won't know what happened until he passes a polygraph. I am not sure why he would insist they did not have intercourse when he admitted they had sexual relations. Seems silly to split hairs like that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Is the OW married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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How long have you been married? Do you have any children? How old are they? How did he meet the OW?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Most marriages do not recover from infidelity until they take very specific steps to avoid another affair. That has not happened here. You will just limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage until he has another affair.

I want to emphasize this paragraph.

You have an opportunity here to do this the right way and potentially recover from this. It seems to me that you want to sweep this under the rug and start trusting again asap. That is not how recovery works, that will not work. You can tell yourself anything you want to about how your situation is different, but it is not and it will not work.

Who is the OW? Does she live close to you? Does she work with your WH? Do you still run into her around town? How do you know communication with her has ceased? Do you have spyware in place that he does not know about, to continue monitoring communication? Is she married?

If she lives close, or works with him, or you have the potential to run into her around town...if you do not have spyware and continue to monitor...this affair will continue or resume. Affairs have a very addictive nature to them, you want to think getting caught scared WH straight, but it doesn't work like that. The addiction of the affair will lure him back and he will just go further underground. If you do not follow all these steps, this will continue and your marriage will not recover. He will also have no one to hold him accountable since you are keeping their dirty little secret for them. And that makes me incredibly sad for you, because this is one of the most traumatic things that can happen to you, and you feel like you have to hide it from everyone. It is like suffering with cancer all alone, with no support.

I would highly highly recommend you reconsider doing this mamabears way, instead of the one way we all know actually works to end affairs and recover marriages.

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Originally Posted by mamabear22
I confronted him and he admitted the things I found out, but he has not really provided any additional information...I have a hard time believing that I accidentally found EVERYTHING out. ...He says I know everything but I am having a hard time believing this. I have questioned him SEVERAL times and he consistently denies it. But he consistently denied the affair to begin with.
He is completely transparent now. But how do I know that I have all of the details of what did happen? Or should I not be concerned? I feel I should know how far it went. But I feel that if I can�t find proof I will never know? And never believe him? Or do I just assume the worst.

This does not make sense mamabear and I know you know it. Trust your instinct, it is screaming to you loud and clear. It is telling you that you do NOT know everything, that he is still lying. He is NOT completely transparent now. He is trying to gaslight you into believing that, and you are trying to gaslight yourself into believing that, but it does not make it true.

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Yes the OW is married.
I called her husband anonymously and told him that his wife was having an affair.
I have heard that she has moved on to someone else now.

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Did you want some information about the Marriage Builders program?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
How long have you been married? Do you have any children? How old are they? How did he meet the OW?

We have been married 20 years we have 2 teenagers one in college one at home. He meet the OW at a job he was working one day a week. He has since quit that job.

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Originally Posted by mamabear22
Yes the OW is married.
I called her husband anonymously and told him that his wife was having an affair.
.

Just so you know, most spouses dismiss anonymous exposures. They are not credible and can be easily denied by the cheater. This is why we never advocate anonymous exposures. They are not effective and rarely result in the betrayed spouse knowing the full truth. Is there a reason why this was done anonymously? Did you tell her husband your husbands name?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mamabear22
Yes the OW is married.
I called her husband anonymously and told him that his wife was having an affair.
.

Just so you know, most spouses dismiss anonymous exposures. They are not credible and can be easily denied by the cheater. This is why we never advocate anonymous exposures. They are not effective and rarely result in the betrayed spouse knowing the full truth. Is there a reason why this was done anonymously? Did you tell her husband your husbands name?

It was anonymous to keep our identity private. We are a small community and my husband would loose his job if this was exposed. Also I believe I at least alerted him to the fact he should check on his wife, if he doesn't at least I did my part. The affair is over know. I had people that knew that my husband was too 'friendly' with this women and never told me. I wish they had. If she denies it to her husband than that is between them.
I am not going to do the exposure portion. My husband only needs to be accountable to me. Now that I am alert of the possibility and with the complete transparency that we did not have before, I have faith we will be fine. If he wishes to cheat again... no problem....there is the door don't let it hit you in the [censored] on the way out.

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Originally Posted by mamabear22
[

It was anonymous to keep our identity private. We are a small community and my husband would loose his job if this was exposed. Also I believe I at least alerted him to the fact he should check on his wife, if he doesn't at least I did my part. The affair is over know. I had people that knew that my husband was too 'friendly' with this women and never told me. I wish they had. If she denies it to her husband than that is between them.

That's not an "exposure," that is aiding and abetting an affair, which makes you an accessory to the crime. You didn't do your part, you only helped the affair remain secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy so you only helped the affair, which is against your own best interest.

If she denies her affair then that is on you because you refused to do the right thing.

Quote
I am not going to do the exposure portion. My husband only needs to be accountable to me. Now that I am alert of the possibility and with the complete transparency that we did not have before, I have faith we will be fine. If he wishes to cheat again... no problem....there is the door don't let it hit you in the [censored] on the way out.

You are aiding and abetting an adulterous affair for selfish reasons. As such, you harm yourself, your husband, your marriage and their marriage.

Quote
We are a small community and my husband would loose his job if this was exposed.

So you know he would lose his job for unprofessional behavior but are helping him deceive his employer for your own selfish purposes. You have endangered many people by helping the affairees hide their crime, and you are at the top of that list.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by mamabear22
[
It was anonymous to keep our identity private.

And maybe your husband feels the same way about sharing information with you? That the details of his affair is private information between he and his lover. You have a policy of secrecy, why shouldn't he?

Calling this woman's husband and not telling him the truth is a cruel cat and mouse game. You just played with his head and left him more confused and baffled than before. It was a cruel head game.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Since your main objective is your selfish interest, let me explain how keeping the affair a secret does not serve your interest in any way.

1. keeping it a secret from the other victim, the betrayed husband, makes it more likely the affair will resume. Exposing it to the BH helps you because your H will no longer be free to pursue her if there are 2 ppl watching from both sides

2. keeping it a secret leaves the affairees wide open to attend events together and you will have no cause to object because no one knows

3. exposing an affair gains support for your marriage because others will hold your husband and his girlfriend accountable. The more ppl who know, the more ppl to hold them accountable

4. exposure has the effect of ruining the fantasy effect of the affair. Here is what clinical psychologist, Dr Bill Harley, says about exposure:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."

5. Exposure lifts the fog of the affair, making it less likely your husband will have another affair.

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery."

As it is now, your husband is not truly repentant as evidenced by his unwillingness to be truthful. He knows he doesn't have to be truthful because you will not hold him accountable. He knows his little job is more important to you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101



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