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#472215 02/26/04 10:29 AM
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I am trying to work Plan A with my WW who has left the home. We talk almost everyday and I do my best not to bring up the M and reconciliation. She has however refused to see me outside of when I give her money or when she drops of the kids. I would like us to go to lunch or dinner sometime but she just refuses. There is OM in the picture. Is there something else I can do at this time so that I can at least draw her a little closer so that she can see me in a more positive light?

#472216 02/26/04 10:39 AM
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For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
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#472217 02/26/04 10:49 AM
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I have read the list and try to work all of the suggestions. Should I back off even more by just not talking to her as much. Perhaps not take some of those calls?

#472218 02/26/04 12:12 PM
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Yes, back off - don't call her. I'm right there with you. Unfortunatley I have violated all of these rules and can't get control of myself and my emotions. I am seeing a doc for anti-d's tommorrow, maybe it will help. This is so hard, so hard. Read the book "The Power of a Praying Husband". I reading the power of a praying wife by Stormie Omartian. Maybe it will help. I still have hope even though he doesn't.

#472219 02/26/04 12:25 PM
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Can you do the 180 list and be in counseling together at the same time? Can you do the 180 list while the S is at home? Can you do the 180 list and still go to church together? We are in a Young Married Sunday School class. Do we go to that? Do I go without him? Do I go to counseling with him? How do I do the 180 while in a counseling session? Just not talk?

#472220 02/27/04 01:13 AM
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Doing a 180 does not (necessarily) fit in with MB principles.

The "180 list" (don't know where it came from) is not supposed to be a "list of things you do.
If you read "Divorce Busting" by Michele Weiner Davis (or talk with her or been in any of her classes), it simply says if what you are doing is not having the affect you want, then do the opposite.

This "list" is some good things to look at.
For example,
#9 Do not schedule dates together.

If you have been scheduling dates and it isn't going well, then stop.
If they are going well and you do the "180 list" then you will stop doing something pleasant with your spouse and that goes against everything for having a good relationship. (And this is what Michele Weiner Davis teaches.)

But likewise, if you haven't been scheduling dates, then do a 180 and schedule some dates. Again, this is what Michele says.

#472221 02/27/04 01:20 AM
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?MO, I know how you feel. It is important that you practice getting your emotions under control. I know it is hard because I wrestle with it myself, but keep at it. Although you want to have you relationship restored you must implement as many items as you can on the 180 list. Also do as much for yourself as possible and do your best to be happy around him but definately show that you do not neeeeed him. Some of the ones that you can do with little practice are to keep your cool and speak clearly but softly. Never cut him off when he is talking(my problem), agree with nearly everything he says or just say "I see". Avoid arguing at all costs even when he is completely wrong. Go out with the kids. Dress nicely around the house and especially when you leave the home, if money is tight do a lot of window shopping. Talk to family and friends more often but not about the M (important). Be consistent about changes you make in yourself but do not remind him of the changes. Church, go together if he insists, if not then go without him and perhaps go to a ministry class that is before service to change things up and you will be enriched by taking the class as well. Self improvement is not about selfishness. Also, go to the restore minstries web site for encouragement and resources.

#472222 02/27/04 01:28 AM
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CA, your explanation is excellent. I was puzzled by it for a long time. It seeemed contradicted to SH's advice. Now I know. I will practice it. If one thing doesn't work, I will go the opposite way. It takes a lot of practice to get it.

Pheonix, you advice is good.

#472223 02/27/04 01:42 AM
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Although you want to have you relationship restored you must implement as many items as you can on the 180 list.
No, you must NOT implement as many items on the list as you can. The goal of the 180 is not to do the opposite of EVERYTHING you are now doing.
You should read "Divorce Busting" to better understand what it is you are doing with the 180.

The list is something to review to see what you may be doing.

It seeemed contradicted to SH's advice. Now I know. I will practice it. If one thing doesn't work, I will go the opposite way.
Again, the 180 does not really fit in with MB principles. You don't simply do a 180 if something isn't working.

#472224 02/26/04 02:11 PM
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CA, I misunderstood some advice I have gotten before. My WW and I have been talking more of late and I enjoy it. I want to know however if this is leading to having cake and eating it too. Meeting a need that right now OM is not meeting because she has put up boundaries for him as well.

#472225 02/26/04 02:27 PM
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Pheonix,
I think that may be the case but know that if you can meet her EN and if that is what was lacking to begin with then maybe the fog will clear for her.
After reading the posts here, I don't think that I need to be in Plan A or B. My WH is not in an affair anymore - he just is tired of the relationship and beaten down and feels hopeless. I really don't know what to do. I will just try to meet his EN. Can you follow the POJA by yourself or do I have to get him to agree to it? How can he agree to it if he doesn't know if he loves me or wants to make it work?

#472226 02/26/04 02:39 PM
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?MO I think you cannot do a POJA by yourself seince it requires both of you to agree. right now I think you need to think more about you and things you have been neglecting concerning you so that you can devote less mental energy towards him. He has to see for himself what a good person you are. By devoting to much energy towards him I think it only gives him credence for his state of mind. Do things for yourself out of self love and not to save the marriage. You will be better off no matter the outcome.

#472227 02/26/04 02:51 PM
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Phoenix,
you are right. I need to focus on myself and my babies. I am going to the doc tommorrow to get some AD meds. So maybe that will help me relax a little. I have done everything wrong - accusing him, searching cell phones, his car, clothes, etc. and it is not working. I am just going to give it to God and focus on me and my kids.
Thanks for your help!

#472228 02/26/04 03:11 PM
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After reading the posts here, I don't think that I need to be in Plan A or B.
Have you read “Surviving An Affair” (SAA)? It is pretty much essential reading for MB. To try and understand Plan A/B without it is futile.

My WH is not in an affair anymore - he just is tired of the relationship and beaten down and feels hopeless.
Which is what happens after an affair ends. It’s explained better in SAA.

Can you follow the POJA by yourself
Absolutely! You can use it as something to go by if he has not bought into it yet.

#472229 02/26/04 03:23 PM
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Yes, I've read the book. What he did was more like 1night stand type completely non-emotional sex and it has been over a year (at least that is what I have been told). I have been very suspicious recently but everything I've checked out has come back clear. I think he is rebelling against me. I'm torn between following my gut instinct and believing what he says. We were in MC for 4mos until I had the baby then nothing until this jan. We were just going along the past 6 mos and now that we are back in MC he has done a 180. He says its because he's not going to bury his head in the sand anymore. I have done so much wrong just in the past few weeks that he can't get past it. I was completely angry for the past year since dday. I can count on my fingers the number of times I cried over the subject. And now he is tired of. he is tired of being accountable for his time, me checking his cell phone, etc. He is ready to leave. As of today, I am backing off.


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