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#1281101 03/02/05 10:03 PM
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This realization has been one of the bright spots in an otherwise gloomy day for me.

Oldest daughter readmitted to hospital psych ward, flu or cold or something feuding with my white blood cells, shoveled driveway twice today just to break even with snow still falling, so congested I can't smell or taste anything, not much sleep last night because I couldn't breath very well, brief morning stretch routine and shoveling only exercise for the day, usual payday problem - know already the money won't stretch far enough til next payday, behind on housework...

Other bright spots today:

Daughter was in very good mood when I visited her in hospital. I went with another homeschool mom and we LOL all through the visit.

A lady at church gave youngest daughter a very cute Guinea Pig today.

Youngest daughter and I went to Taco Bell - eating out's a rare treat for us LOL

The snow is absolutely gorgeous - pure white and glittery like an old-fashioned Christmas card.

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

#1281102 03/03/05 06:28 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since I believe you have to BECOME soulmates, not merely bump into them, I should be enouraged by my and future mate's ability to do so. Even though I probably won't get to have another 25 year long marriage, with a MATURE man, minus a serial adultery problem, I have PLENTY of time left to build a rewarding marriage! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely! I'm facing the same reality and it does make the future look brighter. That's why looking forward and not backward is such a great concept!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Daughter was in very good mood when I visited her in hospital. I went with another homeschool mom and we LOL all through the visit. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The snow is absolutely gorgeous - pure white and glittery like an old-fashioned Christmas card. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're not in Florida are you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

FR

#1281103 03/03/05 11:30 PM
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Nope - not in Florida LOL

Hey, what do you guys think of that E-Harmony.Com
matchmaker service that claims it helps you find your 'soul mate'?

#1281104 03/04/05 12:04 AM
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1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?
No.

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?
Moot. I don't believe in soulmates. Yes, someone can have more than one LOVE in their lifetime.

3. Please explain your belief.
Soulmate almost implies there is another soul out there without which you life is incomplete. How can THAT be? There are people who live enriched, fully functioning lives single the entire time.

Paul told us to marry if we had to (basically because we could not keep our loins in check) but that it was better to serve God single because you could devote yourself FULLY to him. So if we are talking "soul" like the Biblical soul, that which goes to heaven when you die, then no, it is pretty clear that there would not be a soul mate.

One can even look at it without the Biblical references. If there was some Yin-Yang matched set of two people meant for each other, there would have to be some energy or aura between the two so they would KNOW. That would either then be totally in phase, resulting in constructive interference of which some emission would be detectable. Or completely out of phase resulting in some annihilation phenomena. Both of which would be observable. I haven't seen anything between supposed soulmates. Of course, I knew my WW was the one for me the first time she flatulated in front of me. I guess that could be an emission. But I would have expected the emission to occur at first meeting if it truly were some physical phenomena.

I DO believe in kindred spirits. That spirit knows spirit. A junkie can go to a new town he has never been in and get hooked up in a very short amount of time. I think that couples with the comment that there are people you "just like" or "just don't like" right from the start. But some predestined, perfect match? Lacks a little too much free will for my taste. Plus, if it were true, why all the divorces?

A funny thing... Look at the success rates of arranged marriages. Is it because they are forced into them? I don't think so. My bet is because they are arranged. We tend to become our parents. When we are young, early 20s say, we have JUST established who we our as adults. Our parents are say mid forties to early fifties and KNOW who they are. Assuming we turn into our parents, it would not be unwise to let my dad (since I am a guy) pick my wife by querying their mothers and figuring out who HE could stand. Based on personality, value system, etc of the mother of my arranged bride. Seems to me to have a much higher chance of success than listening to the hormones.

NCW

#1281105 03/04/05 06:41 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meremortal:
<strong> Nope - not in Florida LOL

Hey, what do you guys think of that E-Harmony.Com
matchmaker service that claims it helps you find your 'soul mate'? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the concept of EHarmony is what is essentially the foundation of "love", i.e. compatability, mutual values, morals, interests, etc. This does not mean that it equals life-long relationships, since most of us shared these traits with our WS, and we can see how easily destroyed "love" is. But when others ask what "is love?", I think the best definition I have read is that it is the emotion derived from finding the reflection of "self" in another, seeing the traits we admire and/or hold within ourselves embodied in another. So I think that EHarmony is a good concept if it really assists in matching people who share these traits.

#1281106 03/04/05 10:03 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A funny thing... Look at the success rates of arranged marriages. Is it because they are forced into them? I don't think so. My bet is because they are arranged. We tend to become our parents. When we are young, early 20s say, we have JUST established who we our as adults. Our parents are say mid forties to early fifties and KNOW who they are. Assuming we turn into our parents, it would not be unwise to let my dad (since I am a guy) pick my wife by querying their mothers and figuring out who HE could stand. Based on personality, value system, etc of the mother of my arranged bride. Seems to me to have a much higher chance of success than listening to the hormones.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NCW: I studied the arranged marriage issue a while back and some believe the success rate to be more than 80% worldwide. I agree with your beliefs as shown above however feel that those reasons are only a small part of the reason why arranged marriages are by & large successful.

1. By design - an arranged marriage eliminates the often confusing dating process. (Which is usually misleading due to putting on false-fronts, happy face, etc.)

2. I believe those in arranged marriages spend most of their energy prior to marrying on studying the core message of the wedding vows. (Commitment, consideration, family values, discipline, religion, etc. are all in place before even meeting your spouse in most cases.) Obviously there cannot be love until after the marriage, which means that the love develops with all of the wise "beliefs" already in place. (Logic precludes action; action precludes love, consequently love is built on strong core of values/boundaries.)

Notice that arranged marriages leave NO ROOM for "romantic-love" to happen prior to marriage. Makes you wonder how much the notion of "romantic-love" is damaging to the foundation of our marriages doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

FR

#1281107 03/04/05 10:15 AM
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Wow. 80%. That is higher than I thought it was.

Yeah. The emotions.

In an arranged marriage, the parties are probably thinking "Guess we are stuck here, might as well work on it."

A feelings marriage is probably more like "I don't feel I love you anymore, guess I'll quit."

Gonna reference my other thread... It IS possible for your heart to follow your head. Even if it is right up your own a$$. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NCW

PS - Fish, do you ever follow the Ig Nobel prizes?

#1281108 03/04/05 11:07 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A feelings marriage is probably more like "I don't feel I love you anymore, guess I'll quit."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL. Oh-so-true!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PS - Fish, do you ever follow the Ig Nobel prizes? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. Never heard of 'em. Why - should I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

FR

#1281109 03/04/05 11:12 AM
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You are a physics guy, right?

The Ig Nobel prizes are awarded just like the Nobel prizes in categories of science where the research was ignoble.

The web page is the Annals of Improbable Research .

It is like a compendium of weird and goofy things from science. Pretty funny stuff.

Example: Someone actually DID an experiement where they watched butterflies flapping their wings in New York and determined if it actually changed the weather in France. Just scientists being goofy.

They have a big ceremony every year, I think at Harvard.

JL and 2 long probably know about it.

NCW

#1281110 03/04/05 11:31 AM
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Yeah I'm a psycho-guy, errr physics-guy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I'll check out the site.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Example: Someone actually DID an experiement where they watched butterflies flapping their wings in New York and determined if it actually changed the weather in France. Just scientists being goofy.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL. My DD13 and I have these conversations all the time. (She is a classic INTJ type) Anyway; she comes up with some good ones. Started out as; does the light go off in the fridge when you close the door. (she spent 20 minutes verifying this!)

Her classic (while in science-class) is: When pregnant salmon are swimming upstream to lay eggs; and poops, does the poop make it's way to Florida? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Problem is; she was half serious!

Sorry for threadjack, but hey; I started this post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FR

#1281111 03/04/05 11:57 AM
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NCWAlker,

I see your point with us not having to find a soulmate in order to live a complete life.

IMHO that's what our relationship with God is supposed to be. And will we even be able to recognize or remember our earthly 'soulmate(s)' in heaven?

I am starting to really enjoy being single (been separated for 3 years - divorce still not final so not dating) I think marriage works best when the two people COULD live alone and still be happy. I think I would just prefer to not live alone the rest of my life though. I won't feel like I have to rush into marriage, or settle for somebody/anybody though.

I guess what I mean by soulmate is more like somebody you grow a healthy, loving marriage relationship with. I don't believe in the concept of there's some perfect match out there, your soulmate, and if you find them you won't have to work at creating a good marriage. Some people are obviously more suited for you, a better match. But even with them, the success of the marriage is still greatly determined by what they put into it. (OK maybe that's EASIER to do if they're more your type?) I think you can have more than one soulmate in your life IF you and your mate have the maturity and willingness to become soulmates for each other.

But this is probably not what most people mean when they say soulmate, is it?

So maybe I don't really believe in soulmates after all? LOL

What you said about arranged marriages is interesting. I never thought about that aspect of it before.

But I think I would rather have my dad than my mother, pick my husband, LOL. My mother liked my WH but my father didn't... (My mother still likes him LOL) Only 2 1/2 of my 5 sisters liked WH (but for the wrong reasons). I think only 1 of my brothers liked WH.

I doubt many of my in-laws would have chosen me for my WH to marry - LOL! I think some of them liked me until my WH started feeding them all those lies. Many of them never would have liked anyone WH married; WH's family is really more a clique than a family, that the spouses and even grandchildren are never going to be welcomed into.

In fact I'm not sure why WH was interested in me - I am SO not his type! LOL

Daughters and I frequently discuss what we think is important in a mate. And amazingly we agree quite a bit, especially on the important stuff like honesty, responsibility, being good with babies and little kids, etc. (Except they tend to like boys that are way too scrawny and silly-acting for my tastes. LOL)

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

#1281112 03/04/05 12:19 PM
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Fish et al. (With Fishracer's permission because this may be a thread-jack),

OK. So we are coming around a circle and have discussed "soul-mate" and the emotions starting a relationship. Here is an intersting question.

There are those of us with custody of the children who are now single parents. And most of us would agree that a mom and dad is a good model for children to be raised under due to the presence of the male AND female role model. And as a single parent, we are faced with the difficulty in now OBTAINING this new role model.

So here is a solution: Two single parents meet and examine one anothers beliefs. If they are compatible enough they agree to live together. Not in marriage, but in a mutually beneficial agreement for the purpose of raising the children. Like a contract. Allowing them to date (kept away from the home, of course), but providing a healthy environment for the kids that is utilitarian in nature. One mortgage comes to mind as an immediate advantage.

Sound kooky, or would it work?

NCW

#1281113 03/05/05 01:24 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So here is a solution: Two single parents meet and examine one anothers beliefs. If they are compatible enough they agree to live together. Not in marriage, but in a mutually beneficial agreement for the purpose of raising the children. Like a contract. Allowing them to date (kept away from the home, of course), but providing a healthy environment for the kids that is utilitarian in nature. One mortgage comes to mind as an immediate advantage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right; it's an interesting concept and not one I've thought of before. There are additional variables not mentioned that would impact the sitch, but I will give you my initial reaction based on your scenario:

JMHO: Logically and literally (w/o emotion); the idea would be financially beneficial. Besides the mortgage, other savings might include; bulk shopping, insurance savings, baby-sitting, only one set of living needs (kitchenware, linens, etc.) would be necessary. Possible savings on vehicle-needs, home maintenance, lawn care, etc. So yes there is probably a financial gain in this idea.

Do I think it would work (real-world): Not in a million years! Well, that may be an overstatement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I have a theory that is applicable. (With respect to the notion that there are exceptions to every rule); I do not believe that a man and a woman can ever be "friends-only" in the actual sense. There will always be one or the other who develop "feelings" that go beyond normal friendship - and due to the dynamics of a one-sided desire for more... that fact would probably ruin an arrangement like this. (Unless of course; those feeling became reciprocal and M followed!) In order for this arrangement to work as written, there would have to be a guarantee that feelings beyond friendship would not happen - and I feel this is a strong improbability.

Again - JMHO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FR

#1281114 03/05/05 01:28 AM
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NC and FR,

I'd have to go with "no" it is not a viable option. Too many variables. No permanence, no commitment.

If you add the ingrediants that the situation would require to be stable..you have a marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Nothing less will do.

Noodle

#1281115 03/04/05 02:15 PM
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"So here is a solution: Two single parents meet and examine one anothers beliefs. If they are compatible enough they agree to live together. Not in marriage, but in a mutually beneficial agreement for the purpose of raising the children. Like a contract. Allowing them to date (kept away from the home, of course), but providing a healthy environment for the kids that is utilitarian in nature. One mortgage comes to mind as an immediate advantage."


Hmmmm.... sort of like an expanded Big Brother/Big Sister program?

HEY! If you tie this concept in with what we were discussing in another thread (also started by NCWalker), the stuff about how if you serve somebody you will end up feeling love for them...

And marry it to the arranged marriage concept...

You could very likely end up with the children living in a two-parent household with the parents "falling in love" with each other.

It would sort of be like the Sarah Plain & Tall story.

I don't like the idea of a man and woman living together, posing as husband and wife in front of the kids, but dating OP. I think there is too much potential for problems. I agree with the poster who said one person might fall in love, but not the other one. Or what if one person decided to marry someone they'd been dating? It just sort of sounds like an 'open marriage'.
Imagine trying to explain it to the relatives, let alone the dates...

And if it ended up not working, the kids would just be put through another divorce type experience. Maybe if the two people made a committment to be celibate for the rest of their lives - NOT to date anyone else either? But where's the fun in that? LOL

BUT I think if the two people really did a good job of modeling to the children what a husband and wife should act like, they probably would both fall in love with each other. Still, I think it might be best (and more fun) if they appealed to each other appearance-wise, had similar hobbies, were compatible in other ways, etc. to begin with. I guess that could be at least partially taken care of by the EN's survey and committment to meet those needs? (For example - if attractiveness & shared recreational activities were top EN's of one person then the other person would make a committment to take care of those needs.)

I guess it would sort of be like doing that E-Harmony.Com questionnaire to find a suitable mate? Or somebody else (parents?) would choose a suitable mate for you like an arranged marriage. Then you go ahead and set up a household together and THEN you fall in love later? So would you not get married and not have sex with each other until/unless you fell in love with each other?

What if there were a trial period, and if the two people didn't fall in love then they could cancel the agreement and both move on to OP?
(Of course that's sort of the way many people view marriage now - isn't it?) Unless there was a committment to stay together, and NOT date OP, even if you didn't end up falling in love with each other, I don't think it would be worth the risk of putting the kids through another break-up of sorts.

Too bad the BS's can't just convince the WS's to stay married and living together, protect the marriage from OP's, agree to meet each other's EN's inside the marriage, serve each other so they will feel love for each other...

for the sake of the kids.

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

#1281116 03/04/05 02:24 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too bad the BS's can't just convince the WS's to stay married and living together, protect the marriage from OP's, agree to meet each other's EN's inside the marriage, serve eahc other so they will feel love for each other...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM: Cuz the grass is always greener... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FR

#1281117 03/04/05 03:17 PM
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Ditto to fish about the grass being greener. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ditto to noodle about the partners. It would be akin to a marriage. And it would be inappropriate.

Only way I see it feasible is if the people were of the same sex. But then where would the male/female role model be?

Of course, on "My Three Sons" retired Uncle Charley showed up to mother the boys. But those things always work on TV.

NCW

#1281118 03/04/05 05:47 PM
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"The difference is that I choose a person to marry. I choose to forsake all those other possible soulmates when I took my vows. It does not mean that I happiness would elude me in a partnership if I didn't have the particular lady that I married. I simply means I committed myself to her. I avoided and rejected feelings for other possible partners." I like that. It shows how important commitment is.

I also wanted to comment on arranged marriages. My parents are divorced. My Father (a white Man) married a lady from India. Almost everyone she is close to has an arranged marriage. Out of all of those friends and family members there has been only one divorce. And the others are overall very happily married.

#1281119 03/04/05 06:26 PM
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StormyD,

Very interesting about the arranged marriages.

While deployed, I was exposed to both friendly and unfriendly countries. Both were poor. Destitute. I have never been to India, but I hear there is a huge class separation.

In the countries I was in there was significantly less crime than over here. No graffitti even. Or very little when compared to US cities of comparable size. The kids were basically good.

I believe they were too busy working too hard just to eat and have the bare essentials. This left them little free time with which to get in trouble. The idle mind and all that.

Were the families you knew of in India of such a class that they were too busy with day to day survival, or did they have enough free time for "wandering thoughts" to develop and just didn't act on them?

NCW

#1281120 03/04/05 06:55 PM
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"Only way I see it feasible is if the people were of the same sex. But then where would the male/female role model be?"

In a woman's magazine there was an article about single moms moving in together to share expenses, babysitting, carpooling, etc. It was for practical reasons. They could rent a house together in a nicer neighborhood instead of separate apartments in scarier neighborhoods... that sort of thing.

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