McB,
I believe it was you that I spoke with about your H when you first came here. You had a message from him and somehow found it lacking in information. I recall pointing out to you that your H had in fact given you a huge amount of information.
I mention this in light of what you just said to me.
You said your H was a very private man and did not speak of his feelings and emotions. Then you post
He actually initiated the talk, we were cuddling in bed and I just simply said "I love you" and he said "I know you do" and that's how it started.
He talked for the most part and I just kept my BIG mouth shut as I really wanted to listen to what he was saying. He said the THREE things that are forcing him to make this decision.
First - the lies.... he said he just cannot get over all the lying that went on during and after the A. He said he was so emotional last year for fear of losing me, until now he really didn't see it for what it is. All the lying (because I kept the PA part of the A from him).
Second - Trust... how can he trust me ever! how can he move on KNOWING that at any sign of trouble I could find the SAME excuses and do it again.
Third - Our children... what kind of message would he be sending to the girls by agreeing to stay with me after what I've done? does that mean he is condoning infidelity? that there are no consequences for actions like this? what if one of their husbands or even themselves became "cheaters"? would we want them to just stay with them after they've been cheated on?
So those are the reasons he gives me for not being able to do anything else other than a divorce.
First, don't you think those are valid reasons for him to divorce you? Second, do you see HOW much information he has given you? He has told you of his deepest feelings and fears. He has opened up to you and yet I sense you don't see this. This is part of the perspective change I am talking about.
But, McB if you change your perspective you will also see something else in his list of reasons. What I see is he is ASKING you to address them. I believe he WANTS you and loves you, but YOU have to change your perspective enough to address his reasons. This is NOT a test on his part, it is a plea for help. The man is asking you to help him and his has told you specifically where he needs help.
Now there are no glib words you can say to respond to his plea and make it all better, but there are words associated with actions that will let him know you actually HEARD him and you willing to address his reasons.
So let's take them one at a time and I will offer you my thoughts for your consideration. I suspect you will receive many other thoughts as well.
But, first did you tell him that his reasons are valid? If not you should. Walk up to him and tell him you have been thinking about his reasons for getting a divorce and you realize they are real, they are powerful and they are valid.
Then you look the man in the eye and tell him you intend to address those reasons with actions and words because
The biggest reason is I do love this man! He is someone I have always admired in many ways, and in many ways I want to be like him. My flaws are his strength and vice versa.
I now realize
What OM gave me, the ONLY thing I can say I probably wanted from him was communication. BH is more reserved and quiet. BUT one of the reasons why we don't communicate as well anymore is because we DON'T have the time! with children, work and activities we don't have time to sit and talk for hours like we did when we first got married.
And more importantly you (H) and I agree that
He did agree that we would need to make our M a priority and not our children as we always have. The children will benefit more if both of us are happy.
And part of that priority is my realization that I need to change my perspective on our marriage
He said for him the marriage before was just right. He said sure it wasn't "perfect" but that was OK with him. He doesn't want "perfect" he wants what we had (before the A of course).
My goal and promise to you, H, is to not make the marriage perfect, but to ENJOY the marriage we have. To ENJOY you, our children, our time together.
McB, why would you be saying such things even if it is me putting those words in your mouth?? I'll tell you why.
IF you change your perspective and decide to ENJOY your H, see the humor in his failings, enjoy your children and savor their growing, take JOY in your life and the trials and tribulations...YOU WILL CHANGE YOUR MARRIAGE. IT is not about going back to pre-A, it is about changing how you savor and enjoy the marriage.
Now let's consider his reasons for leaving. The first one was
First - the lies.... he said he just cannot get over all the lying that went on during and after the A. He said he was so emotional last year for fear of losing me, until now he really didn't see it for what it is. All the lying (because I kept the PA part of the A from him).
Ok, we can list why you lied right?
1. You did not want to hurt him or your family.
2. You wanted to protect yourself( huge reason to lie right?)
3. You wanted to continue the affair, right?
What other reasons? Did any of them include hurting him, not really, BUT you knew he would be hurt if he found the lies. You lied because you were in the affair, you did not start the affair because you lied.
Do you see the distinction? If normally you are an honest person, the way you avoid lying is to avoid being in situations that will lead to lying. So while you can promise not to lie again, what you really need to do is develop and PLAN with him so that lying is never a temptation. I think with regard to the lying your best defense is simply to admit you did it for your purposes and the purposes where those you were ashamed of. Your plan now is to be "radically honest" so that YOU AND YOUR H can head off situations wehre lying seems to be the best course of action, even knowing it never is a good course.
You cannot take back the lies, but you can develop a plan to avoid lying again. Further, you might point out given all that you have done and have had to face, you KNOW that being honest would be easier. THink about this abit.
Now on to the next reason
Second - Trust... how can he trust me ever! how can he move on KNOWING that at any sign of trouble I could find the SAME excuses and do it again.
Excellent question and one that has been asked by the many thousands of BS's that have posted on this site, and millions more that have never posted. Your short answer to him, is that he has no need to trust you right now, you will be transparent to him, he is free to check, he is free to ask questions.
But, you might consider discussing what trust really is. It is the ability to use past actions to predict future behavior. The most recent behavior is the most heavily weighed of course. He can trust you, if he will do two things. First, he needs to recall that for most of your marriage, you have been trustworthy even in rough spots. Yes you failed terribly...ONCE. But, you have learned some hard lessons and the consequences will be felt for the rest of your life whether he stays or goes.
The second part is more straight forward. He needs to allow you to SHOW him that you can be trusted. If he will allow you time to build up the data base with trustworthy actions he can develop trust, but simply letting you be what you want to be, trustworthy. He does not have to do anything except watch, and check up as he pleases. You are alright with him checking on you, in fact you will encourage it.
Now here is something neither of you might have considered and it comes under the heading of perception. Most people complain when the BS checks up on them, they feel it is an invasion. Yet, the same WS's say "He/She never cared or loved me." My take on this is that checking up on you shows his care AND love. Tell the man the more he checks the more you will love it because it shows he cares and that is after all you ever wanted to really be sure of in the marriage...his care and his love.
Odd isn't it? Checking up goes from being something that shows lack of trust, to something that shows care and love. It is all in the perspective isn't it?
Let's take a look at the last one. I am so glad he brought this one up because it opens soooooo many doors for you and he to really do some positive things.
He said
Third - Our children... what kind of message would he be sending to the girls by agreeing to stay with me after what I've done? does that mean he is condoning infidelity? that there are no consequences for actions like this? what if one of their husbands or even themselves became "cheaters"? would we want them to just stay with them after they've been cheated on?
Ok, do your daughters know of the affair? If they don't then his reasoning isn't valid is it? But, if you two have decided to tell them in age appropriate ways or they already know, then your H has the OPPORTUNITY to decide what kind of message this gives them. You also have an OPPORTUNITY to show your daughters many things, but let me address your H's options.
It seems to me if he decides to remain married to you and rear OM's daughter as his own, that your daughters are going to learn some very very powerful lessons.
1. That forgiveness is a great attribute to have because the family is going to thrive within the context of your H's forgiveness, grace and leadership.
2. That he is a very very devoted and strong man. He honors his family and tries to do what is best for his children.
3. That he is a man that can see the innocence of a child even one that is not his biologically and love that child.
4. That he is a man that has been deeply hurt (they will know this really only as they reach adulthood), but overcame it.
5. He is a man that learns and grows from adversity.
6. He is a man to be respected and honored.
How is that for starters? Would you like your daughters to have those same attributes?
Now what would your daughters learn from you?
1. You have had the strength to face your failing.
2. You have had the strength to learn from your failings.
3. You overcame your failings and became the woman you always wanted to be.
4. That one mistake no matter how grievous can be overcome with an open mind, a good heart, and lot of hard work.
5. It helps to marry the RIGHT man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I think I could go on, but it seems to me your children stand to learn alot more from both of you IF you two can change your perspectives and make this marriage work.
I have rattled on long enough, but I hope that you see McB, you do have a lot to talk about with your H, and it starts with validating his points of view and starting to change your perspectives. Your H is not perfect and never will be, but he does have his strengths and those are carrying things right now.
What this man needs is YOUR support in validating his feelings. In explaining to him his strengths. In showing him how to smile and love. In showing him his OPPORTUNITIES. What he does not need is you trying to change him or educate him. Work from his strengths McB and I think you may have a good chance of having better marriage but probably NOT a perfect one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I hope this helps you.
God Bless,
JL