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GRACE!

THIS IS A MARATHON AND YOU ARE TREATING IT LIKE A SPRINT.

It seems you get great advice... JL's post to you... you agree to do it... and then poof, it's gone.

GRACE!

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I'm sorry, TFC. I know it's confusing, and everything hurts. You are the one who has to do the hard work in this and that’s not fair, but no one else can do anything more than advise. I point out things I see from long-distance and I hope they’re more useful than not, but there's no intent to cause more pain than you're already experiencing.

Let all this slide for the rest of the afternoon and evening, okay? Making a decision on anything about your relationship is not a good thing to do today, so consciously forbid yourself to do it. Sit back and relax, pushing all this out of your mind.

Let's talk when you're ready, okay?

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Its not gone, I promise ... I was responding to another poster. I still want to make this M work! In a serious way! H is home tonight, will maintain GRACE & CONFIDENCE this evening ...

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I'm sorry, TFC. I know it's confusing, and everything hurts. You are the one who has to do the hard work in this and that’s not fair, but no one else can do anything more than advise. I point out things I see from long-distance and I hope they’re more useful than not, but there's no intent to cause more pain than you're already experiencing.

Let all this slide for the rest of the afternoon and evening, okay? Making a decision on anything about your relationship is not a good thing to do today, so consciously forbid yourself to do it. Sit back and relax, pushing all this out of your mind.

Let's talk when you're ready, okay?

Hard to do this ... especially when I just found out OW tried to come home with my H on his b-day LAST YEAR! And, the girl I was originally concerned about? The one that is really just a friend but had the inappropriate IMs? Just found out their "friendship" started back in September 2006 - BEFORE MY A! He never told me about her! He told me he wasn't like this before my A ... well, it seems he was!

Last edited by time_for_change; 06/05/07 03:34 PM.
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Lady, you have some evaluations to do. What you've just discovered is one more item in the list of things you need to mull over. If OW#(X) {I've lost track of how many this is} tried to come home with him last year, then he's been in inappropriate relationships for about a year. That's one more piece of information you need to consider in the totality of all the things that have happened in that year, or perhaps even longer.

I still advise taking the evening off. TFC, making a decision right now, when your emotions are spiking, would not be in your best interests. Please, find that calm, prepared woman from yesterday morning and let her take over, okay? Can you give your best friend a call and vent a little?

Where's all this new information coming from all of a sudden, anyway? I'm afraid to ask what's coming next.

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Where's all this new information coming from all of a sudden, anyway?
A good detective never reveals her sources! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There are more women than I care to count ...

At first, I thought there was no way he had been physical with ANY of them, but the more I know the more I'm concerned about the physical side. After all, if he was spending the night with OW, how do I know they didn't have SF? If he's mailing another girl's jewelry back to her, what does that say? If he's having lewd IMs with another, am I supposed to believe it was all in jest? If he's having himself photographed with another woman's breast in his face, am I supposed to assume it went no further?

He will not admit to any of it ... if I had to make a decision today, I'd be done.

I'm going to have a good cry on my way home from work. Scream and yell at the top of my lungs. That way, I'll have most of it out of my system by the time I get home.

Last edited by time_for_change; 06/05/07 03:47 PM.
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Okay, you've got a good source, whatever it is. Too bad it's only now revealing the thing about last birthday, isn't it? Would that you could have nipped all this in the bud, as the saying goes.

BTW, he doesn't have to admit anything. Don't buy into the idea he has to admit the crime in order for it to be a fact. Remember, you're working to assure yourself of his NC, not preparing evidence for a trial. It's a fact if you find out about it, period.

Primal scream is good. Just check to make sure that's not a black and white car with cute little red and blue lights on top right beside you when you let loose, okay? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Remember, you're working to assure yourself of his NC, not preparing evidence for a trial. It's a fact if you find out about it, period.
... you don't know my H!

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Primal scream is good. Just check to make sure that's not a black and white car with cute little red and blue lights on top right beside you when you let loose, okay?
Oh yeah - I should prob stay away from those! LOL

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Hang in there, lady.

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TFC... if you continue the way you are going you will wind up divorced. You continue to poison your mind and your chances of recovery.
If there is an ACTIVE affair, deal with it through boundaries. Otherwise, the focus should be as JL has said. I will tell you that LH, while good at comforting, is NOT the person that I think will best lead you out of this stuff. ML and Pep are two good sources...Mrs W is another.
Just my 2 cents but I see you spending way too much time in anger and not enough in trying to move forward as JL pointed out.

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Just my 2 cents but I see you spending way too much time in anger and not enough in trying to move forward as JL pointed out.

I understand. And I know that I need to reconcile all this ...

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H was home last night. We were supposed to watch a movie together, but we didn't get the one we thought we were getting. So, he worked with headphones on while I watched the movie. I wasn't angry, just sad. Before bed I asked if I could talk to him about something to prevent going to bed upset. He stopped and listened. I explained that my feelings were hurt that he'd made a big deal about being home and then hardly said a word to me all night and worked with headphones on. He apologized, said he was just focused on getting that work finished. Then we discussed his travel schedule. I expressed concern about 1 place he was going b/c OW is there a lot. He blew it off.

This morning I woke up depressed, not angry, just depressed. I just started crying. I woke H and asked if we could talk for a second. I explained that I'm sad and lonely - that he doesn't even hug me anymore and that my feelings/concerns last night were minimized. He just said "sorry" and left the room. A few minutes later he told me that we'd talk about it ... but went on to talk about it.

He said that my snooping and lack of support (referring to my concern last night) are what's caused him to back off from me. I explained that I am still very supportive of his career but would occasionally need reassurance about situations like last night, where OW is concerned. He explained that he has no reassurance, no matter how hard I try I can't reassure him ... He then said that he knows I make a lot of sacrifices for the family and his career, but he makes them too. I stated that I know he does and I appreciate especially the ones he's been making lately. Then he said that he's sacrificed his manhood, dignity, and integrity.

He makes a good point.

We need MC ... BAD!!!

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Then he said that he's sacrificed his manhood, dignity, and integrity.


Exactly! Very normal feelings.
Grace. Enjoy time when he is there....enjoy what he IS willing to give right now. Avoid love busters and demands....
You can win this battle but need to focus.... grace should be your operative word.
Every single day you are looking for things to feed your negativity. STOP. Enjoy what he IS willing to give right now. Everytime you find yourself wanting to be negative... think GRACE. Negative = NAGATIVE.... is is that attractive? Nope.
I warned you months ago about your continued snooping...it is doing you more harm than good at this point. You would do better to work with him.
I do not recommend calls to the Harley's like others do here....but spend the money and make the call. YOU need a game plan and you need it now.
GRACE.
GRACE.
GRACE.
You will win this only if you focus and stop with the daily self absorption into negativity.

Come on TFC... get hold of yourself and focus on the end result here.

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He makes a good point.

Are you buying in to the fog babble, TFC? He hasn’t sacrificed anything you aren't also sacrificing daily, if you want to give any credence to that comment. If either of you begins to think in terms of your dignity being sacrificed, Dr. Harley’s program for recovery has no possibility of succeeding. Words about a “sacrifice” of dignity, manhood (or womanhood), and integrity show a person still stuck in the anger step. (See: the five stages of grieving.)

Additionally, apparently in retaliation for what he perceives as his loss of honor, he’s keeping you in some kind of Purdah and refuses to be seen with you in public. Now you won’t be invited to his birthday party? That’s the most insulting thing I’ve seen a man do to a woman since I was last in Saudi Arabia, where every woman is a third-class citizen.

Lady, can you call for an appointment for counseling with Steve Harley? Please do. I think it would do you an immense amount of good. SH is a professional counselor and could help you find a personalized plan for recovery.

TFC, I think you should be careful to filter all the advice you’re getting out here through what you’ve learned in your reading of SAA and HNHN. This is Dr. Harley’s website, right? Don’t try to apply everything anyone, including me, tells you. It’s only advice based on our own experiences, plus a modicum of knowledge acquired from watching hundreds upon hundreds of threads here on MB.

TFC, there are some out here who post once to a person in need and then seldom come around again. I’m not sure that’s helpful. Often a comment is made without reviewing the whole history on that thread. Also, sadly, there are some people out here with hidden agendas. Beware of those who slam you with 2X4’s over and over again because of how this all began, then turn conciliatory and “helpful” for no apparent reason, TFC. Remember, this is Dr. Harley’s plan for recovery that everyone is supposed to be promoting.

My personal opinion is if you turn soft and pacifying, your husband will eat it all up without moving off his current position one bit. Please show me in Dr. Harley's words about Plan A where he recommends this. Do you perhaps need to review Pepperband's "Carrot and Stick of Plan A?" What happened to your Plan A and 180, TFC?

Look, TFC, one of your WH's ENs is admiration. I even think he may be suffering from a mild form of narcissistic disorder. He loves the attention he gets from you and he supplements that attention with the adoration of all those young women out there. Second, as your best friend referred to a few weeks ago, suppressing who you really are may have been one of the key elements in your own affair.

Please evaluate where you are and where you want to go, TFC. Do you really believe becoming anything like a doormat is going to get your marriage into recovery? Or does your husband admire you when you “stand up for yourself?”

Being angry is wrong too, and I’ve been trying to help you calm down when your emotions peak…but you weren’t angry a couple of days ago, lady. You had made a calm decision to confront your WH, as you specifically referred to him, with his latest inappropriate behavior. What happened to that calm woman, TFC?

Again, since you’ve become confused and unhappy here on the website, please, please, please give the Harley’s a call. I think it may be the single most important thing you can do at this point.

As always, you have my prayers, TFC. Hang in there, okay?

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I think I'm going to take a break from MB for a while ... maybe I'll call SH in the meantime. I clearly need to meditate on everything for a while without being influenced by others with multiple differing opinions. I am too vulnerable right now ...

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Okay. Take your time, TFC. I'll be watching for you.

All the best,

LH

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Back, but only for a second ...

I am behaving in peace and kindness (most of the time). I am deflecting gaslighting well, and holding H accountable to his words and actions.

I am doing a great deal of contemplating on this M and will continue to do so. I'll be back ...

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Still thinking on things ... but not obsessing over them. I'm finding joy in small things again and trying to live my life - with or without him. Still depressed, but not as much - keeping myself busy. Going to try to convince H to do MC. The latest? "We're a family partnership." So, we're dealing with this in different ways. Hence the need for MC.

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TFC,

Keep focusing on YOUR state of mind. Grace will carry you through many things. Please talk to SH and do take joy in the little things you will find they are the most important.

God Bless,

JL

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Today DD & I went to a public function with H for the first time since ATA (After The Affairs). It was a beautiful day and we had a great time! H still isn't planning on inviting me to his Bday party, though - I asked him to please stop discussing the party then, as it comes across as him rubbing it in my face. We have another month, so ...

Things are going more smoothly now that I've taken control of my radical emotions and starting meditating again. Grace gets me through - I am liking myself more because of it too.

I always thought that having grace meant sacrificing my boundaries ... but am learning just the opposite. I am proud of myself right now. I'm sure there will be a rough road ahead again soon, and am trying to prepare myself for it. Wish me luck ...

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