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Dino69 Offline OP
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Moneys not an issue, I may call them myself. I don't want to leave anything to chance you know? Thanks for looking out though. It may just be an over active imagination right now and my desire for results, but you never know. I've not been in the best positive frame of mind the last few days. We'll see how we do over the weekend in Germany, maybe my mindset will improve.

Thanks cat

Last edited by Dino69; 05/22/08 11:05 AM.

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Dino, maybe this is the Californian in me, but dude, chill cool ... LOL!

You are putting way too much pressure on yourself and your wife to get back to a certain standard. It took many years for you to get to this low point, please don't worry so much if you spend a few months climbing out of it. When I first started visiting this board, I read on one of the threads a great analogy for sticking to Plan A even when you see no results ... they said it was like throwing pebbles into a pond ... each pebble sinks into the water and it seems like it has no effect, but below the surface those pebbles are adding up and one day you'll toss a pebble and it won't sink. It might take awhile to throw in enough pebbles, but don't give up, ok?

Trust me, your wife is not content. She's TIRED! She isn't fighting right now because she's emotionally drained. You have to give her time to heal. Honestly I think it would take me at least 6 months to not feel numb from the trauma of ending an affair plus the added drama of almost losing my job over it. Yikes! She can't feel right now because her heart's been broken, but that doesn't mean she doesn't love you and doesn't want to fix your marriage. If it was her leg that was broken, you wouldn't expect her to get up and run a marathon with you right away. It's kind of like the emotional version of that.

Personally, I don't think you should press the NC issue. What would you gain versus what would it cost? Maybe you feel a little better, but at the cost of her feeling probably a lot worse. No one likes to be badgered or treated like a child or like they can't be trusted. Personally, I don't think contact with the OM makes recovery impossible for everyone. I think whether or not it does depends on the maturity level of the people involved. If your wife were typically a weak person (i.e. gives in to peer pressure, prone to making bad decisions, ego driven) then contact probably would keep her head screwed up. But for people who are fairly grounded and not so flighty, I can conceive of them having contact and it not holding them back from going on with their lives.

Plus with your history of jealousy, this is really an opportunity for you to show you've changed and are no longer the person who makes big love bank withdrawals. Maybe this is stereotyping, but if your wife is strong enough to have had a career in the Army, she's got to be at least as independent minded as I am and I would not put up with that from my husband. He does have a few issues with jealousy ... he hates that I am still friends with my ex-boyfriend from college for example ... but he doesn't push it. It would be a big LB if he did. From your post, I really think you already know what the right thing to do is. Fight that green-eyed monster, not your wife.

Hope today is a little better smile

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Dino,

When an an addict first begins to try to recover after hitting the bottom of their life, they start to experience a series of emotional and physical symptoms know as withdrawal...

Guess what...Those symptoms can include lack of focus, a questioning of desire to go forward and continue the program, anger, frustration, sleeplessness, emotional outbursts (angry, sad, super happy)

Does any of this sound like what you are seeing in your wife?

Same symptoms. Same solution.

Be patient.

I know it stinks after fighting so hard to get her to even begin to converse about staying married, but now is not the time to demand any specific response from her. As she goes through withdrawal from OM (yeah, it sucks) you are going to have to help her. Imagine that, she ripped your heart out, you overcame your hurt and fought for her and now you have to hold her while she cries for OM.

Cat has already said that you need to give this time because you didn't get here overnight and won' recover overnight either.

How long have you been married? That is how long it took to get to right here. Recovery will take...2 years or so with both of you working at it. But by working at it I mean trying to rebuild your love for each other first. Unless you do that, you might as well call the lawyers now.

Push for NC? You can't demand it, but you can clearly state your boundary that you will not share her with anyone else. You have to monitor to ensure NC and if you find it has been broken you have to address it head on. You can't ignore it, but you also have to understand that just like that addict, she might fall off the wagon early on, maybe more than once.

Imagine if you would a tornado hitting your house. The walls are blown to pieces, the roof is gone entirely, maybe scattered over the yards of folks a mile or more away. Your furnishings are pretty much trashed and all you have left is the few little things you can find by picking through the rubble.

You can have new appliances delivered right away. You can get a crew and start framing the walls. You could have the roofers here on Tuesday morning to begin work.

And that big screen TV you wanted for so long? It's on sale right now, today only, for half off. You could be watching that sucker in your brand new living room by this time next week...

Except for a few minor details...

The house has been trashed, the debris has to be cleaned up first and then the foundation must be made secure or replaced completely before anything can be built on it. You might be able to throw a house up in a week, they do it on TV every Sunday night, but without a foundation, it will fall at the first sign of trouble.

Your marriage has been blown to smithereens. What once stood is gone. It isn't just damaged, it is damaged beyond repair...But I am not saying to scrap it. Take the important parts, the things you want to salvage from it (That would be you and her, BTW) and save them for the new marriage you are going to build.

And the first step toward building that new marriage is to get rid of the junk lying around. You know, those Love Busters, AO, DJ, lies, IB, AH, Selfish demands...

But you aren't ready to move in yet. First you need a solid foundation. That is your love for each other. Until you have that built up strong and ready to take on the load of the new construction on top of it, there is no point in building anything else. All the new stuff will just be wasted because the place just won't hold together in the long term.

Dr Harley states that what makes his method different is that he seeks to solve one problem first. That is, he wants to rebuild the love between husband and wife as the first step in the process. Fixing long standing issues, changing the dynamics of the relationship, better and more open communication all need to happen. But all of those things take time. They also exact a heavy price. Unless the foundation is good, nothing else matters.

Do MB stuff. Don't talk about it, do it...Spend 15 hours per week having fun and meeting each other's ENs. Help each other overcome the LBs, those things that rob each other's LB$. Give each other care and honesty and time above all else. Many of the problems with the old will become but a memory if you begin working on the new.

Yeah, all that other stuff has to be dealt with. The debris needs to be hauled away, but unless the foundation is fixed first, there is nothing that can be done with the rest of the house...

Mark

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Hello all, Mark, Snuggle,

Thanks for the replies. We're back from Germany, the weekend went well. Daughter did well and they were runners up for the championship. We had a good time but it was way too short.

As for wife and I, things went fine. Nothing real dramatic to report. We got along fairly well by my standards. No issues or anything like that. She was very cordial as usual as was I. There was only one tense moment I think. She had gone to the restroom and for some reason, I always suspect that she uses that as an excuse to get off on her own to use her cell phone. I tried to fight it off but couldn't help myself and followed her into the building a few minutes later. The last time we had it out about NC I told her I suspected her of calling him while gone to the restroom or other times she gets off on her own so I think she's leery of it. Anyway, just as I walked by the rest room, she came out, I had paused by the entrance of the womens restroom and she walked out so pretended to be reading some wall bulletins, she saw me, said hi and walked out. I felt like an a$$. Back out by the field she seemed to be a little perterbed for awhile but things smoothed out. I didn't mention anything about it the whole weekend but it always bugs me whenever she gets off on her own. No other negative things though, so I guess thats good.

As for positive stuff. No earth shattering news. The first night there, we went to bed together tired and slept well. I was a little emotional because of being there and little things triggering thoughts about the A. Like I said, that was the place they had their last physical contact. I couldn't help but think about where they had been, what they were doing. Did they eat at the same places we were eating at, did they go to the same places we were going? Just stuff like that, but I kept it together.

She does show little signs of affection here and there. I think it helps her sometime to get away from home and just have the family around to think about. The things she does are so subtle though, I remember all of them vividly because I get so little.

She held my hand while she slept for a little bit the first night.
She leaned over and rubbed my shoulder the first night
She laid her hand on me the second night while we were in bed
She seems to be over on my side sometimes just to have a little contact
On the plane ride back she laid her head on my shoulder to sleep and held my arm
At home last night, we watched a movie and she laid on the couch next to me and put her head on my side (with a pillow underneath)

All these little things I see but I try to discount them for fear of setting myself up for pain. Sometimes I think she does these things just to keep me going, you know? Like shes just trying to keep me alive, like bread and water. They just feel so good but at the same time it hurts. She still doesn't say she loves me to my faec, just won't do it. When I say it to her, she just kind of smiles. I want to touch her so bad but it just doesn't seem like I should. I put my arm on her last night when we were on the couch but it was very tentative. I don't want to put any kind of pressure on her. Bob Pure said he cut off any physical contact and said he stopped saying "i love you" and it worked for him. I get confused. In bed I want to lay behind her and put my arm around her but I don't want her to be uncomfortable (it just doesn't make sense for me to fear that).

We're getting along good, I don't want to mess that up. I guess I'll just have to tough it out. I like the little signs but my gut just tells me that there so superficial. I don't know. 6 more months here and we'll see where we go. I hope things get better.

Thanks again for your advice. I'll keep you up to speed.


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Hi Dino! I'm glad to hear overall Germany was a good weekend for you. Congrats on your daughter doing so well in her competition!


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I don't know why, but I 've been thinking about the A alot lately and it's really been bugging me. Since I had gone through about 3 months of pain and wondering what had happened to our marriage prior to dday, when I finally found out about the A, it was almost a relief. Sounds kind of crazy but that's what I felt. The prior 3 months I was kind of in a daze of confusion wondering why she felt the way she did. I guess I talked myself out of thinking of an A, but there was a little voice telling me the truth. So, when I finally found out about the A, I felt a little relief that there was a REASON she was acting the way she was, that there was a CONDITION that was causing the turmoil. Which brings me to my next point and the reason for this post.

I never really got mad about the A. It never really had me reeling like maybe it should have. I was devastated of course, the thought of my loved one falling for another, the thought of her touching and being touched by another, the thought of her telling someone else she loved them. Of course I was, and am still reeling with pain and hurt, but not anger. When she told me over the phone, I immediately forgave her. I immediately told her I wanted to save our marriage and work things out. I sometimes think that was a mistake. I think that my condition of being devastated by her action of the time and her ILYBNILWY statement had me in a state of neediness that I didn't recognize. I was so starved for her love and attention that I would've dove at any reason to get things back on track. Other than her initial shock of being exposed by OMW and her initial fear of losing the family, she hasn't had to feel the fear of losing anything. I relieved that fear by immediately forgiving her and telling her she had my support and love. She never had to fear any repercussion other than the legal stuff from the military. I think that it may have an impact on her willingness to work our our marriage. The first thing I asked her after the exposure was whether or not she wanted to save our marriage and she said yes. 3 months after dday and a couple of talks, she has said in the heat of the moment that she's not sure if she wants it to work, that if she had to make a decision at that moment, she would say no. Of course she always leaves the door open, I'm not sure what to think about that.

So I guess I'm just asking for opinions. Did my actions on dday set me up for a longer chance at recovery? Did my "letting her off the hook" give her a free pass to act how she wants and not put more energy into repairing our marriage? Did my not taking a harder line give her the leverage to take me for granted and string this thing out? Those are the things weighing on my mind right now. Obviously my past had alot to do with how I reacted on dday. I may have acted differently had I been the model husband, but I wasn't. So just like most people, I took some blame for the situation, took alot of it actually and beat myself daily for letting her down over our lives.

Things are going ok I guess. I still have to fight the need to hear it from her. To hear that she "wants" things to work, that she is trying to make things better. I don't get that or feel it sometimes. We're getting along good, we don't fight, we don't argue. We do things together and we're sleeping in the same bed. She seems to touch me more lately but nothing anyone would consider intimate. She rubbed my back the other day when I was stretching, she did it without my asking. She laid on my chest this morning and held my hand before we got up. It feels so good for her to do those things, they bring me to tears everytime and I have to hide it from her. I'm getting better for myself but the pain and hurt I feel from not having her as my wife hasn't subsided in the least. I'm handling it much better than before but it doesn't hurt any less. I miss my wife and her love, I'll never get over that and I don't want to. If we part wasy I will survive, but I will be forever scarred by the loss of something special, something we had and lost. By our failure to keep our promises to each other and our children. I hang on to the slim chance that we can come back from all of this and regain what we once had. I want us to have a healthy happy marriage once again, I hope she can see that and realize that it is still possible, even with all the damage we have caused.

thanks for reading

Last edited by Dino69; 05/27/08 05:51 AM.

FWH/BS (me)42, FBS/WW 39, married 18 yrs, WW A discovered 3/03/2008, my A discovered 06/2003
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I wish I could detach myself. Why is this whole thing making me so down. I've read everything, studied everything, tried every self control technique I can find and somehow I just can't keep myself from being depressed about this whole situation. I just can't find the way to be ok with how my wife and I relationship is right now.

I manage to keep the happy face on and portray the happy good husband but when I'm alone I'm a wreck. I'm still crying everyday to myself, not because of fear for the future anymore, but because of the utter loneliness and missing my wife. Thoughts of the A come once in awhile but they in no way consume me. I just miss her touch so much, I miss her companionship, her love. Does that go away? If it does, will I not love her anymore? Why would I want the feeling to go away other than the selfishness of wanting to "feel" better. Even if it did go away, where would that leave us? Without the feeling of want, how would you fuel your desire to repair your marriage and rebuild your love? How do you not hurt but still have the drive to save your marriage? Just questions.

Confusion is where I am right now. I know I'm supposed to take things at face value and not attach meaning to anything but I'm having trouble with that. There seems to be an increase in physical contact. Usually, basically all the time, the contact happens while in bed when she is half asleep. Like last night, during the night she rolled over and put her arm on me. About an hour before the alarm went off, she rolled over again and put her head on my shoulder, she kissed me on the cheek, we held hands and basic stuff like that. Don't get me wrong, I love every minute of that. But once we wake up and get out of bed, she's back to being standoffish. She tries not to touch me when we walk by each other, doesn't say much. She still goes off to bed without so much as a "goodnight or I'm going upstairs". She just kind of disappears and I find her already asleep or reading. No I love you before leaving, almost as if the things she did during the night were done by someone else. It's weird, I feel as if we need to talk about things but at the same time, I don't want to rock the boat at this time. I don't think we have enough in the love bank to afford a potential blow up, not on my part, but on her side of things. I'm pretty sure she still isn't in the right frame of mind to talk about things in a rational manner. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that our love bank is still in the red. I honestly believe that I'm making some small deposits but it's slow going right now.

I just wish I knew where we stood. I know that goes against everything we talk about here on MB. It's killing me not knowing whats on her mind. I guess it is still fear that has me in it's jaws. I mean, I have come to terms with the potential of having to live a life without her in the future, I've accepted that, not happy about it, but accepted it. I'm a doer, I have the overwhelming need to know we are doing SOMETHING about our situation. I know I'm doing something, but is she? Is she trying to work things out inside herself? Is she even thinking about us? She has to be, it would be impossible to ignore the atmosphere that surrounds us in the house. I'd like to think were moving along. I keep telling myself that it's only been 3 months since dday, she's still in some withdrawal. Still in ALOT of withdrawal, but that makes me feel kind of bad too. If the separation from OM is killing her that bad, she was in deep. Hurts bad. I think alot has to do with her "reintegration" from deployment. It's been 6 months since she came home but alot of the complaints I hear from her have to do with her feeling "closed in" or "controlled". She's told me often about how happy she was to be able to do what she wanted, when she wanted and noone questioned her because she didn't have to answer to anyone. It's like that when deployed, all you have to worry about is getting to work on time and staying alive. I don't think she's dealt very well with reassuming the roles of being back home. Being a mom, stressful job and our situation along with the punishment aspect of her actions. She's got alot on her plate. We'll see soon enough. I feel a little better thinking about all the things she's dealing with.

Another day starts. I hope for little signs of improvement each day, just something to tell me that we're moving. I hate this weight on my chest, it makes it hard to breathe. I can't think of a healthy way to get rid of it. I guess is just part of my burden.

thanks for reading


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Dino,

Thats what I constantly think about also. Crave for her feedback or to tell me what shes thinking now. It feels like every time i see or talk to her something changes for the worse. Take great solose in the fact you know where she lays at night, it should be a major comfort to you at this time and i know it's hard to see that in your position. I'm separated and have been for months and let me tell you bud it's 100 times worse. I haven't even tried to find out where she has been living or followed her and yet I'm still controlling and manipulating. I guess thats just in ways that she sees but yet can't see the improvements I've made for what they are and she has no idea how much words of affirmation, even little ones, on that would greatly improve everything else. But asking for that or even bringing that up is something I can't do because that would be making it about me and trying to manipulate things in her mind. Right now we're going nothing but backwards, just adding more problems to the list and she tells me tonight she doesn't think the pain and hurt will ever stop when thats all I want to do is stop the pain and hurt and repair things to even better then before. Thats all I care about is stopping her pain and making it go away forever and to love her again. I've been loving her even though she hasn't been loving me for so long now.


Going into recovery now so I can be a better person for my children and for me.
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Snuggle

I read so many of these stories and they start to get me down. I just can't read another one of horror stories of how we humans let our most precious gift get away because of selfish behaviors. I'm as guilty as anyone but it doesn't make me feel any better. I miss my wife, I miss my marriage, I miss my friend and companion. I just miss us. I hope things can change but I'm not getting a good feeling from reading these stories. I hope you're doing well, I'll keep trudging along in hopes that my baby comes around.

Thanks again


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Hey Dino! I am sending you a big virtual hug ... I was just thinking about you and thought I'd sneak on the board this morning (I'm at work ... hee, hee).

I know it doesn't help much to hear me say this, but in time the pain and hurt you are feeling right now is going to get better and go completely away. I promise!!!!!!! If it doesn't come true, I will give you $1million, my first born and the keys to my Porche. It's hard to see from your side of the pain fence, but having been there myself and having been there for friends and family in the same position, I know it is true.

Stop reading the other stories on here!! Read something that will help you feel more positive (my personal fave are comics ... I love, love, love "Mutts" ... omg, so cute ... and "Dilbert").

Oh and stop second guessing yourself. Personally I think your reaction to your wife when she first told you about the affair was perfect. Instant forgiveness ... that is true love. Getting blasted with anger ... well if you want your wife to pretend she wants to work on the marriage because she is scared of you or feels guilty, ok, but I know that is not who you are or what you want. She is coming back to you because you are the best thing there is in her life too. Those unsolicited backrubs and touches do mean something ... it means she feels loving towards you at that moment. ENJOY THE MOMENT! Don't add on all the baggage of what does it mean, or try and figure out what she is doing, etc. Her emotions and moods, just like yours are in flux, that's all Things will settle down, you just have to ride out the storm.

Hey do you know what lolcats are?

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hey dino
sorry to butt into your conversation but i just need to talk to someone in a simmilar situation (and it helps that you alo are married to a milatary wife). first ill say that i completely understand the feeling of being killed by not knowing what my wife is thinking, and it is not getting better. but i appauld you for dealing with it for so long it gives me some hope. ive only really been experiencing it for a week, and i need some advise on what to do now. see my wife got deployed and ive been antisipating her return the intire time (woried about her), she is expected this friday. but last monday she told me that she didnot want to be with me anymore. frown i really dont want this marriage to end, she is the world to me and i really cant bare to be without her. but now i have no clue what to do when she comes back friday. so can you give me some advise on what to do and maybe how to handle this problem?? any thing would be helpful and really appreciated.
thanks

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Sling

the best thing for you to do is to start yourself a thread and explain the whole story that way you'll get the best help possible. These people here on MB are great and they will help.

First thing, you're going to want to be all over her, don't. If she was gone for awhile, she has to go through a period called reintegration. Go to your family support center and get some info on it. Your wife has to adjust to civilzation at home again as well as adjust with you. She's going to have alot on her lap when she gets back, I know my wife did. Try the best you can not to looks depressed or sad around her, it sucks but you've got to put in her mind that you were ok when she was gone adn you'll be ok if she decides to go. You can tell her that you want to stay married to her, but don't portray yourself as needy. You'll have to wait to see how she acts when she gets back.

Start yourself a thread and tell your story, I'll keep an eye out for you.

I wish you the best

Last edited by Dino69; 05/28/08 11:37 PM.

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Snuggle

Sorry, but I don't know what lolcats are. I'm sure you'll tell me right?

Anyway, thanks for those refreshing words, I need that from time to time. I've really been in a rut, just can't seem to get on the up swing. I've been feeling so low lately and crying everyday wtf? Things seem like there going well, I think. I just can't shake this funk. I guess I'm just missing her extra huh? She treats me pretty good, still not very loving though, she can be rough at times but I need to quit being so sensitive too.

I'm going to try my darndest to get out of this today, think positive. I'm tired of feeling like this, i want it to go away. It's draining on my soul and I'm afraid some defense machanism will set in that isn't so productive. Nah, I won't let that happen.

Thanks again Snug for being such a big help


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You've been in such a funk Dino, I've decided I'm going to have to pull out the big guns ... lolcats! Some people will have you believe they are a big time waste ... and that may be totally true ... but they also make me laugh and feel pretty good about a world that can produce such silliness ... so there smile

lolcats are basically silly pictures of cats (or other animals) with silly captions written in "lolspeak" which is sort of english, but like cat english. The most famous one is this one:
Cheezeburger #1

But there are tons of other ones on the icanhascheezburger.com website or on lolcats.com, etc. (you can just search lolcats).

Here are some of my other favorite ones:
Gunz
My Interest
+3 Cheezeburger

Sometimes just thinking about a particularly funny lolcat makes me smile, I hope it does you too smile

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thanks for the insite dino i really needed that. i did start a post before i contacted you its the one called "spouse of a military member" but in new to posting anything and when i start i had only three days to look for help so thats why i was looking at others and found you. so thank you again.
i wish i could help you out to but me being new to all of this i cant offer much help. sorry. just dont give up hope that things will work out. wish you my best.


try to keep the chin up and the train rolling
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Thanks Snug
I appreciate the effort. I think I've just about saturated myself with "knowledge" about how all this stuff happens but there's no telling whats in someones mind. I can't shake it. I'm between a rock and a hard place. I feel as if she needs to get a glimpse of life without me and away from her kids. She has said before that she would follow me because she knows the best place for the kids is with me. Her decisions have placed her in an awkward position of retiring without a plan in place. I think she also knows that she's not in a good mental state right now and her "taker" is ruling her world right now. She has no idea what that is because she refuses to participate in our marriage still. I pretty sure she's thinking that her just being here is a sacrifice she is making, and I should be grateful. I know Snuggle, all in my head and I shouldn't attach meaning to what she does. I'm beginning to feel like the perverbial "doormat". I'm avoiding the NC issue, not that there is an evidence other than her snippiniess towards me. I maybe taking too much of this MB stuff to heart. NC = no progress, that's what everyone says and now it's etched into my brain, not healthy for me. I'm doing good right now with the snippiness but can feel by defenses beginning to build up. I understand all the issues surrounding our sitch, I do. It's even been awhile since the actual A has caused me any stress. But the little jabs and pokes I feel are taking their toll. Nothing too overt, stuff that seems harmless but things that I don't even do to people I don't like at work! For instance, if I call her on the phone, she says "what?" Today my daughter had a haircut appoinment for prom, i assumed I was taking her since I've been doing most of the domestic stuff. I asked W if she was going too, she snips "I'm taking her, what are you doing? Why would you take her to the hairdresser?" I just walked away. She allowed me the priviledge of kissing her forehead before she left. The few little affectionate things she had done over the last couple of weeks have come to a screeching halt, nothing has happened between us that has caused a rift...so? NC??? Eating at my soul...

We're going on 4 months since dday Snuggle, should something be happening? Should she at least have made her mind up about what direction she wants to go? I don't know ANYTHING! All I know; she's still here
I feel like dookie
I have few options because we're here in England

I'm doing things on my own to feel good. I'm not huddled in the corner crying. But the fact still remains that I love her and it hurts like &^%$ that she is removed from me, emotionally, and physically. I can't leave, she won't, and I'm not sure if what I'm doing is even having any effect on our sitch at all. Treading water is what it feels like, sooner or later my arms and legs will give out and I'll drown. I'd rather just take a bullet to the head than suffer until my lungs fill with dirty water. (all a metaphor, don't even think about it). I want to take my kids and run away, let her have the freedom she seems to crave, her want for the release from the prison she seems to feel when she's with me.

But I'm not ready to risk a premature explosion. Afterall, we still talk of the future together. We're still on our way to Hawaii in August. I guess we'll just be "buddies" even though I'd never talk to my buddies the way she sometimes talks to me. Suck it up as they say, i made my bed so I should lay in it. I feel a little better, just ran 2.5 miles, unloaded some mental baggage, that's what this place is for right?

thanks for reading...

Last edited by Dino69; 05/31/08 09:47 AM.

FWH/BS (me)42, FBS/WW 39, married 18 yrs, WW A discovered 3/03/2008, my A discovered 06/2003
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Unloading those bad feelings is exactly what this place is for. You are doing good a great job not letting your taker take over. Just keep letting her snippiness roll off your back.

The one thing I would change is how you keep taking her snippiness to mean something about you. Dino, it's not about you!! Earth to Dino, you are not the center of the universe wink LOL ... you know I am giving you a hard time about it because I care.

So here's a different way to see her snip about taking your daughter to the hairdressers ... maybe she feels bad that you have been doing so much of the parenting. Prom is a big deal and can be a really special bonding time for moms and daughters. Maybe she is scared she is going to miss out on an important moment in her child's life. Your daughter is growing up and only going to be home for a few more years. That's scary to a mom! So see how maybe it is not a jab directed at you at all? And maybe the kiss on the forehead isn't her "allowing you the privilege" but her feeling like dookie for snapping at you.

In the past, has there been a time in your life where you felt lost about where you were going and maybe scared about the future? Did it ever cause you to be crabby? And didn't you feel lousy about unfairly snapping at your loved ones? I really think that is what is going on here. The rift you feel isn't a judgment of you or your marriage, not even a little bit.

When you feel like running away, think about how much it would hurt your wife. I know it would. She is not craving freedom from you and the kids. It would shatter her if you did that. Ok, this was just a really long winded way for me to try and say maybe what would help you is working on developing your empathy for your wife. Stop assuming the worst and start giving her the benefit of the doubt. What do you think?

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I hope you keep an eye on my posts Snug and don't ever cut me off. I appreciate your comments so much, you have no idea what an inspiration you've been to me and how much you've helped me over the last couple of months

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The one thing I would change is how you keep taking her snippiness to mean something about you. Dino, it's not about you!! Earth to Dino, you are not the center of the universe LOL ... you know I am giving you a hard time about it because I care.

You're so funny, it's hard to keep that "me" thing in perspective. I think this is where that defense mechanism thing I mentioned comes in. I've always been big on treating people right even when discontent is involved. I haven't always practiced what I preached but that's all in the distant past. I understand where my wife is emotionally, I just don't understand why it's so easy for her to speak to me in thoe tones.

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So here's a different way to see her snip about taking your daughter to the hairdressers ... maybe she feels bad that you have been doing so much of the parenting. Prom is a big deal and can be a really special bonding time for moms and daughters. Maybe she is scared she is going to miss out on an important moment in her child's life. Your daughter is growing up and only going to be home for a few more years. That's scary to a mom! So see how maybe it is not a jab directed at you at all? And maybe the kiss on the forehead isn't her "allowing you the privilege" but her feeling like dookie for snapping at you.

This is also something she's mentioned to me. She's frustrated that she isn't in control of her life right now. With all the things she's dealing with, I have been doing much of the parenting and domestic stuff. She feels "out of touch" as she puts it. She tells me she never knows whats going on with the kids but I think her time at work is the reason for that. As for the "priviledge" she allows me, it's just another vent for my frustration of having no affection from her. It's still my biggest hurdle. I'm really lonely and NEED to touch her snuggle. I want so bad for her to FEEL for me again. I want to kiss her again, it's been over a year now and it hurts.

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When you feel like running away, think about how much it would hurt your wife. I know it would. She is not craving freedom from you and the kids. It would shatter her if you did that. Ok, this was just a really long winded way for me to try and say maybe what would help you is working on developing your empathy for your wife. Stop assuming the worst and start giving her the benefit of the doubt. What do you think?

I do have empathy Snug, I do. I feel for everything she's going through, especially for her career. She saved me from having to go through the same thing when my A was expsed 5 yrs ago, so I empathize BIG TIME. I just feel like she needs a shock, something to wake her up to what's going on! I feel like this our chance to finally DO something and stop letting our marriage erode to the point of no return. I don't want to lose my love for her. I still cry everyday Snug, everyday. I'm afraid that one day I will wake up and the crying will be over, and so will our marriage, I don't want that to happen. I fear that she KNOWS what's going on but it's exactly what she wants. That she wants to reamin distant and that she WANTS us to survive only until the time is right for HER. Thats my biggest fear. My empathy is my biggest motivating factor in surviving all of this to this point. I believe she will see the light, I believe we can come out of this better, I hope she can get through everything she's dealing with for her sake and ours. I fear that all of this is just a facade. Like I mentioned before, "bread and water", a person can survive on bread and water for years, maybe a lifetime, but who wants that?

Thanks again Snuggle, you're a blessing

Last edited by Dino69; 06/01/08 02:54 AM.

FWH/BS (me)42, FBS/WW 39, married 18 yrs, WW A discovered 3/03/2008, my A discovered 06/2003
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Well Snuggle, we finally did it...

We actually had a decent conversation about everything that's going on. About 3 hrs worth. I was in such a rut as you know, I just couldn't keep it inside anymore. I had to ask her how WE were doing. I thought it would escalate into another one of her venting rages but I think my calmness kept that away, I'm pretty proud of myself. It was very hard to start out without being emotional but after we talked, it got easier even though I did have a couple of small breakdowns, just a little crying when I talked about something really touchy. Kept it together after a few sniffs, you know how it goes.

She hasn't changed her position. Still thinks that maybe we may need a separation when we get back to the states in 6 months. I was hoping that maybe I've made some progress in the last 3 months but no dice. She says all the hurt I've caused is still fresh since her epiphany. I asked her again if she talks to OM still, she told me she spoke with him a couple of weeks ago. I'll never be ok with it but without a willingness to work on us, it would be useless anyway. She's a grown woman, she's not disillusioned in anyway, I know her enough to know that. She knows she made a HUGE mistake, is genuinely sorry for her weakness but just as genuinely decided about our relationship. I drove her away, I know it in my soul, I knew it before she ever left, i just made my own fantasy world that she would never leave me. We talked about some old times, we laughed, cried. I told her about everything that happened here the day she called and told me about the A, it hurt her real bad but I told her that I just wanted everything from here on out to be open between us. She just kept saying that it is too late, wishes I would've done all these things before when she was trying so hard to keep our marriage together. We were laughing at my sudden attempts to buy all these books and become the "marriage" expert. It was funny how she knew all about the MB techniques I've been subtly trying to spring on her. She said I could've saved some money and asked her, we laughed about that too. I never knew she had also been reading alot of stuff back when I had my A. I wish she would've done something more drastic, just goes to show you how inaction can have just as much impact. I told her she was the one to blame for me becoming such a monster, she agreed and we laughed, she treated me like a king Snugggle, I took advantage of her.

She's spent. She says she is numb right now, doesn't feel anything for anyone. Doesn't trust anyone, won't let her guard down for anything, just wants to sleep and move away from here (her words). She says she held so much in for so long trying to make sure me and the kids are happy, now she doesn't want to do anything but take care of herself. She even thinks that the kids would choose to be with me instead of her (says it hurts that the kids are grown enough not to need her anymore) I was sure to tell her that I made it a point to talk to the kids about her and how much pressure she was under at work. She says the kids are negative towards her because shes at work so much now, says they mentioned something about her being gone when they got up, and coming home at night for a couple of hours before going to bed. I feel so bad for her, I told her I talk to the kids all the time about what mom is going through, tried to comfort her about the kids but she is pretty hurt. She says she's hoping that retiring and moving away from all of this will have a positive effect on all of us but doesn't promise anything. She said she can live as we are for another 5 months for the kids sake. Says she's been living a lie for yrs now so another 5 months won't bother her. I told her I didn't know if I could do it, we couldn't find any other solution because of living here in England. I can't think of another way either. Other than me moving out but I don't want to be away from my kids. She just wants to be by herself, to be able to empty her mind and not have anymore stress. I don't think we can stay like this for 6 more months but I'm willing to try to stick it out. I'm pretty much done with expectations. i think my hopes are a dead end. We agreed to end on a good note, we made dinner and ate with the kids. We agreed on what I already knew had to happen. We have no chance until we restart our relationship. As of now, she isn't willing to invest any energy. She says that she could have a change of heart but isn't promising anything. The only bright light I saw was the answer she gave me for this question, since she said that she just wants to finally be happy, without feeling the pressure of control or being locked up by work, or me or the triggers of being here.. I asked her "would you rather be happy by yourself, or be happy with me?", she said she would rather be happy with me. She of course had to put her own stipulation on it by saying, "happy with you because I want to be with you, not because I'm faking it for any reason." I told her I didn't want her to ever sacrifice anything for me again, from now on, we do things for each other because we want to make each other happy and no other reason.

It's so sad that we seem to see the light on our relationship now that it may be too late. I honestly don't know if I'll be able to live under these conditions for 6 more months Snuggle, I just can't be this close to her and not have a relationship with her. I'll try but we'll see. I told her that I was worried that conditions like this may damage my love for her and I didn't want that. I just don't know. She said again that seeing me hurt makes her want to run away even more so we're between a rock and a hard place. I guess I really do have to cut her loose and see what happens. It just sucks that cutting her loose in our situation just means emotionally, not physically since I have to sleep in the same bed everynight. I admire her strength but wonder about her motives, why would you want to put yourself throught this, she says it's for the kids. She thinks that a separation when we get to the states may generate the feelings of "longing" that we can't get being together under these circumstances. That we may be able to start dating and fall in love again. I told her that I didn't buy into that idea. Talked about the will to want to be happy together and that we have to work at being in love, she said she agreed but also said she didn't want to do the work the way she's feeling right now. She's wants to be emotionally healthy again, that's what she really wants. Right now that doesn't include me.

So I guess my work here is done. I'm a much better person than I was 6 months ago, nowhere near healthy but better. I told her I'd be ok without her, that I didn't need to be married to her nor her to I (duh). She asked me jokingly if I'd have sex with her if we divorced (???) something we joked about back in the day. I told her I wasn't sure, she was surprised, said I always said I would. But I told her that even though I said I'd be ok without her, I told her that since the day I asked her to marry me, I never had any doubts about spending the rest of my life with her, and that if we divorced, I'd go on and be happy, maybe with someone else even. But I told her that if she came by one day and wanted to have sex with me, I may have to refuse because it would hurt too much. Because even if I had moved on and become happy with a new life, I would never get over losing her, ever. I may be happy again, but would never get over losing her, and left it at that. I meant every word of it, I hope she took it in. I don't feel any better Snuggle, I do but I don't. Time is the only thing I have now.

Thanks for all the help, I'll keep you up on events as they come but don't see much of anything happening in the near future. Thanks again...


Last edited by Dino69; 06/01/08 03:13 PM.

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Wow, you handled the conversation really well. I think you kind of already knew where your wife was at right now, but I would imagine it feels better to confirm it all with her rather than keep wondering and imagining all the possibilities. She sounds so burnt out and tired. Honestly I don't think she could choose to work on the marriage right now even if she wanted ... she doesn't sound like she's got any emotional energy left at all.

So what are your plans now? Can find a way to make the best of the next 5 months? This is only tangentially related, but I find myself thinking about people like Nelson Mandela or Aung San Suu Kyi and what they did/do to get themselves through being imprisoned with such dignity. Maybe someone like that could be the example you need right now.

Don't spend too much time regretting the past and kicking yourself. The future is not written ... who knows where you will be 6-12-24 months from now. There is no way to know really so now you can stop worrying about it and just wait for it to happen. It will be what it will be regardless. You just keep being the great man you are right this minute. That's all you truly can control anyway. If you keep doing that you'll have nothing to regret.

I hope you treat yourself good tonight.

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