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CWMI #2432653 10/06/10 01:37 PM
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CWMI you really are in a tough situation. I hope you find your way out somehow.

I know what you want, ideally - is your husband to act like a HUSBAND and be a real partner to you. Lacking that - what is the next best thing? Is this it? This life you're leading right now?


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Vibrissa #2432668 10/06/10 02:07 PM
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No. Not at all. I just read an assignment for dd7, where she had to correct the GRAMMAR in this sentence:

It's ben siad, "Half a loaf is better than none." It means that sometimes people cannot have it all, so they must learn to be happy with less than everything. It is nicer too have a littel something, than nothing at all.

That is what school is teaching my 7yo daughter. My problems are minute compared to this crapola. SETTLE. OR HAVE NOTHING. Grrr...


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432670 10/06/10 02:11 PM
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puke


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Vibrissa #2432672 10/06/10 02:16 PM
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You ever feel like you're against the entire world? I'm having one of those days...


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432675 10/06/10 02:18 PM
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Except you, V and the MB crew...felt the need to clarify that. smile


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432676 10/06/10 02:19 PM
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Lol

Just gotta make it through today CWMI - one day at a time.


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Vibrissa #2432684 10/06/10 02:32 PM
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I gotta make it through tomorrow, too, if God grants me the pleasure. smile


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432706 10/06/10 03:10 PM
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Hey, CWMI, have you sat down with your husband and asked him to spend about a page writing out exactly how he views a marriage should be? As in the roles of man vs woman and what is acceptable and what is not?

I just have this feeling that both of you have this 50/50 view of marriage where for about half the ideals you share the other half y'all are polar opposite. It sounds like he does not buy into part of what you believe and then the reverse is true for you also. However, neither of you feel you are in the wrong so y'all have this stand still where you're upset with having to settle and I have a feeling that he feels like he has to settle also.

I also have the feeling that he feels like he's ripping his hair out also. Of course, I'm not inside your husbands head but I very much doubt that he wants to be divorced. He just might feel your expectations of marriage are too much for him. He might even feel overwhelmed.

I think it might behoove you to ask him to write down exactly what's in his head.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

kilted_thrower #2432714 10/06/10 03:23 PM
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I believe in marriage as laid out by MB, with all the EPs and care and protection and POJA and RH and, well, all of it.

You are correct, I do not buy into his view that we must live at the whim of external forces and just 'deal with it'.

kt, you have argued with me about the benefits of GNO and how you see no problem with your wife going out on a party bus for a night of drinking with her co-workers, so I do not put much credibility into your advice re: MB in general, nor my sitch in particular.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432750 10/06/10 04:56 PM
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I think one of the hardest differences to overcome is if one spouse is dead set on achieveing all their life goals and the other feels it is OK if they never quite "get there". Very hard for a Type A person to accept that their spouse is not going to push hard all day every day to work toward mutual goals.

In the "old fashioned" marriage with typical male and female ENs, this will be even worse if the wife is the Type A person. That is the problem in my marriage. And I think it may be a problem for CWMI as well.


When you can see it coming, duck!
CWMI #2432771 10/06/10 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
kt, you have argued with me about the benefits of GNO and how you see no problem with your wife going out on a party bus for a night of drinking with her co-workers, so I do not put much credibility into your advice re: MB in general, nor my sitch in particular.

There was 2 posts with a total of 3 sentences about this. You said you disagreed with it. I'd hardly call that an argument.

I've read the same books, the same articles, interacted with teh same knowledgable posters. I have the same tools and knowledge that you do. The difference is I'm not having near the issues in my marriage that you are.

But that's fine. I'll stop posting to you then.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

kilted_thrower #2432779 10/06/10 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
The difference is I'm not having near the issues in my marriage that you are.

Ouch. To look over your last few posts to me, it sounds like you are suggesting that I lower my expectations in order to keep my marriage. Is that what you are saying?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432785 10/06/10 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Ouch. To look over your last few posts to me, it sounds like you are suggesting that I lower my expectations in order to keep my marriage. Is that what you are saying?

Absolutely not. Lowering expectations leads to unhappiness and resentment.

I know you want a happy marriage. And I can't imagine him not wanting a happy marriage either. But it seems there's a communication breakdown. You have put the MB program into place. And he seems enthusiastic about it. Then he suddenly isn't. So my question is exactly what does he see how a marriage should look and how does it differ from your vision of what a marriage should look like. This would open the way for communication.

It seems everything is at a deadlock. At this rate nothing positive will come out...only frustration. And I can't imagine that's good for either of you or your kiddos.

I'm sorry if my comment was out of line and hurtful. I was pretty put off in the way you would dismiss me so easily. And I know you and i don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. But I do want you to have a good marriage.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

kilted_thrower #2432885 10/07/10 07:56 AM
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I'm sorry, too, kt, for dismissing you so broadly. I'm a bit touchy to any suggestion that I am at fault here. I feel like I have done everything I need to, above and beyond what I needed to do, and having all this falling around me is blowing a few connections in my brain...I simply cannot fathom it.

He told everyone else the same thing he told me: this job had NO TRAVEL and no events that I was not invited to attend. He's acting like he has no idea where I came up with that! Which is the bigger DJ: thinking that he is intentionally gaslighting me in order to keep me off-balance and drive me insane, or that he is truly that self-deluded to believe that he never said it to me or the several people I've spoken to whom he also said the same thing?

What he thinks a marriage should be depends on what he wants in the moment. For the last several months, he was all-in with a MB marriage--making decisions together, considering each other, spending lots of time together, connecting emotionally, being O&H (or so I thought...). He wants that until it interferes with something else. Then he wants a marriage where it is okay for one spouse to disregard the feelings of the other and it is the job of the disregarded spouse to be understanding and forgiving. He has said that: he believes the problem here is that I am not understanding and forgiving, and that I am ridiculous for expecting him to consider me when it comes to his job. What??? It's like he doesn't even remember WHY he changed jobs to begin with.

You know how he is about support for his job. I asked him the other day, "If you had to choose between being the best employee at your job, or being the best husband and father at home, which would you choose?" He said husband and father, of course! I told him that I would like it if he kept that in mind when making his decisions.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2432888 10/07/10 08:03 AM
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this job had NO TRAVEL and no events that I was not invited to attend.

As I understand it, the trip he is scheduled for includes you and the kids right?

The party he invited YOU TO, right?

Sounds like travel and parties DO INCLUDE the family so why do you keep saying they do not include the family? What is the problem?.

CWMI #2432896 10/07/10 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
I'm sorry, too, kt, for dismissing you so broadly. I'm a bit touchy to any suggestion that I am at fault here. I feel like I have done everything I need to, above and beyond what I needed to do, and having all this falling around me is blowing a few connections in my brain...I simply cannot fathom it.

CWMI you just sound tapped out. You sound exhausted. I don't think this situation is your fault, at all! However, there is always room for us to improve. That was the direction my earlier post to you was trying to go.

You still have to work to be a good wife. However after a point it is just too much. It's hard to go into Giver mode when our Taker is screaming to protect us.

I was listening to past radio show segments yesterday and Dr. Harley was discussing Plan A/ Plan B in NON-affair situations. I think this may be appropriate for you if you don't think you can muster up a Giver anymore. I KNOW you don't want to go Plan B, but your continued presence in this marriage only teaches your husband that he can continue to disregard you without consequence - well you get peeved at him but he can deal with that.

Quote
He told everyone else the same thing he told me: this job had NO TRAVEL and no events that I was not invited to attend. He's acting like he has no idea where I came up with that! Which is the bigger DJ: thinking that he is intentionally gaslighting me in order to keep me off-balance and drive me insane, or that he is truly that self-deluded to believe that he never said it to me or the several people I've spoken to whom he also said the same thing?

Ideally it isn't a choice between the lesser of two DJs, but NO DJs. You can't say for sure why he is doing what he is doing all you can say is he told you one thing in the past, it has turned out to be a lie and that hurts you and you don't like it.

CWMI I know you and your husband have counseled with the Harleys before. Would you consider one session JUST FOR YOU where you lay out where you are right now and see if you can get some direction on where you should go from here?

You seem at wit's end. Perhaps Steve (you counseled with Steve right?) can help guide and focus you towards your goal. Especially as he has had the benefit of actually talking with your husband.


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
kilted_thrower #2432899 10/07/10 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
And I can't imagine him not wanting a happy marriage either.

Huge DJ. Of the sneakiest kind. Thinking well of someone. Assuming they have "good" intentions.
I want a happy marriage. Like I want to win the lottery. As in: it would be nice if it happens. But I can easily imagine Mr. CWMI not wanting it enough to do the required work. Not enough to be O&H or to ues POJA. Not when it interferes with IB.

Or maybe he simply is not interested in working as hard as CWMI wants him to work. Maybe he wants to be lazy. Maybe he is willing to accept that some of his ENs will never be met. And he expects CWMI to accept that some of her needs will never be met. That doesn't make him a "bad" person. But it makes him incompatible with CWMI, who seems dead set on constantly working toward meeting her ENS, and who expects her husband to work just as hard toward that goal. There are plenty of people in this world who are not motivated to "be all they can be". Which is OK. Unless they are married to someone who expects them to try harder. THAT is a difference that is very hard to POJA.

I agree that Mr. CWMI would prefer a happy marriage to an unhappy one. But that does not imply that he is willing to pay the price to get there. Which puts CWMI in a very unpleasant situation.


When you can see it coming, duck!
holdingontoit #2432901 10/07/10 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by holdingontoit
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
And I can't imagine him not wanting a happy marriage either.

Huge DJ. Of the sneakiest kind. Thinking well of someone. Assuming they have "good" intentions.


True.

Man those DJs...they're everywhere. Once you get into the habit of spotting them it's like the world is full of them. I've discovered in my own life that about 90% of the time that I'm upset with my DH - there's a DJ on my part behind it. I get rid of the DJ and the upset feelings disappear. Stinkin' DJs!!


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Bubbles4U #2432904 10/07/10 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
this job had NO TRAVEL and no events that I was not invited to attend.

As I understand it, the trip he is scheduled for includes you and the kids right?

The party he invited YOU TO, right?

Sounds like travel and parties DO INCLUDE the family so why do you keep saying they do not include the family? What is the problem?.

Besides the betrayals and lies.... She should just be happy, right?

Bubbles, why are you making it your cause to smack CWMI down at every turn? Makes no sense to me! Sheesh





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
Vibrissa #2432927 10/07/10 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Vibrissa
CWMI I know you and your husband have counseled with the Harleys before. Would you consider one session JUST FOR YOU where you lay out where you are right now and see if you can get some direction on where you should go from here?

You seem at wit's end. Perhaps Steve (you counseled with Steve right?) can help guide and focus you towards your goal. Especially as he has had the benefit of actually talking with your husband.

I believe I am at the point where there is nothing I can do but B/D without my H's active participation. I don't feel like I need coaching to know how to do those, I'm pretty well-versed as it is. I just need to let my brass pair drop again, and do it.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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