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Just thought of this re reading my post, yours, and Papabears. Don't ask me why, it just popped in my little head.

For everything we have been given responsibility for, we have also been given authority.

That works both ways WPG. You can condemn yourself or it can be used to set you free from negative thoughts and bondage.

Hang in there kiddo

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Thank you, JustUss!

Thanks, CP and tst, for the words of encouragement. I haven't had a lot of encouragement IRL lately, and I appreciate it.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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I already heard from Joyce this morning.

She was asking for your email address so she could contact you. I provided her with the one you registered with on MB. Hopefully that is still a current address for you! smile

If not, email me at JustUss2@aol.com with a good address.

You should hear from her soon!


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That address still works, JustUss - thanks again!


FWW

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So do you believe he is punishing your continually for your affair 3 years ago? (comments like telling you he wouldn't have moved home if his stepmother still had a place for him make me believe he is punishing you)

Or do you believe he is just content much the way he was pre-affair?

I feel bad for you, but I also hope for your children's sake you keep hanging on for a while longer..

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Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
So do you believe he is punishing your continually for your affair 3 years ago? (comments like telling you he wouldn't have moved home if his stepmother still had a place for him make me believe he is punishing you)

Or do you believe he is just content much the way he was pre-affair?

I feel bad for you, but I also hope for your children's sake you keep hanging on for a while longer..

I would think he feels trapped and confused. He can't go back and fix it, but he still loves you.

I remember when my wife was acting really bad, and I thought I was man enough to fix everything for her. Of course you are not an alcoholic, or so damaged that you act out in bitterness while your drinking, or habitually look for attention from other men. But that aside, your H would never have gotten together with someone like my wife, he wouldn't have gave her a second glance. She obviously had issues and most men could catch on quickly to that, most men cared about how good she looked, those men who cared about just looks that is. Smarter more caring men just gave her a wide berth.

Your H picked you to share his Life with, that counts for a lot, seeing your accountability

But our male egos, even mine, which I think has been pretty well kept in check most of my life, still are fragile things. I know you understand this more than you did before your A, and you have seen the devastation that happens to us little boys in a mans body, and you have definitely taken responsibility for it.

He is being cold because he doesn't trust you yet. He put up his guard, and you will have to let him drop his guard when he is ready.

He IS the alpha male right? Isn't that something you love about him? With all the sensitivity that comes from real men?

You love him, and don't want anyone else. Give him time to open up and work this out within himself, and with the help of other men like on this site when he is ready. We are not so different from each other after all. No matter how tall we build the walls, sometimes the city walls still get breached.

You just keep standing watch on those walls WPG, yes recovery is worth it, even for the few short years we recovered partially,(You have a much better chance because drugs are not an issue), it was the best time in my family's life, and we will remember it always.

Lets face it, you aren't going anywhere, and you have stood and took your medicine like a soldier.

I am confidant your strength will astound him, and he will thank you for not going off the deep end. You are a credit to all FWW's, and your children will definatly thank you.

Last edited by ConstantProcess; 04/04/12 06:04 AM.

Me 56 Former BS
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Me former BS
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Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
So do you believe he is punishing your continually for your affair 3 years ago? (comments like telling you he wouldn't have moved home if his stepmother still had a place for him make me believe he is punishing you)

Or do you believe he is just content much the way he was pre-affair?

I would think he feels trapped and confused. He can't go back and fix it, but he still loves you.

Probably "All of the Above." I definitely think there are times that he wants me to hurt and suffer, and deliberately says/does things to cause that. I don't know that I'd say he's content the same as he was pre-A, I'd think that surely he still dwells on what I did and has a lot of resentment towards me, but content in the sense that he gets enough of his ENs met by me to be satisfied.

I do believe that it would be worth it if we could recover, if we could have a romantic marriage, if our daughters could have the benefit of living in an intact home with both parents, who are modelling what a healthy, successful marriage looks like...if, if, IF...That's what I still want, more than anything.

I thought about what tst said, in that we do not exactly have our pre-A M. I have EPs, I recognize what is appropriate and non-appropriate behavior with the opposite sex, I am more cognizant of ENs and LBs.

H, however has a FB page. Avoiding FB is one of my EPs. I found this out by accident in conversation with one of his family, who was mortified they'd let that little tidbit slip b/c they thought it would make H angry at them that they'd told me. I had a friend who has FB try to bring up his page but he's got his privacy settings pretty high. I can't see who his friends are, and his relationship status appears to be nonexistent. Maybe he's maintaining it to continue to try and keep tabs on the POSOM and/or to see if I go back on FB. I don't know how frequently he goes on there, but I know FB was a trigger for him since that's how my A started, and he told me he couldn't stand seeing the little FB icon on everything. He's still got a text from January of 2010 from the POSOM saved on his cell phone, and has OM saved in his contact list. These things bother me, trigger me, yet I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on in telling him this, since I was the WS. I also know that's not being O&H, but I don't know how to approach these things without angering him, making him feel like I don't trust him when I am the untrustworthy one, etc.

I'm hopeful Dr. H will weigh in soon.



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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
H, however has a FB page. Avoiding FB is one of my EPs. I found this out by accident in conversation with one of his family, who was mortified they'd let that little tidbit slip b/c they thought it would make H angry at them that they'd told me. I had a friend who has FB try to bring up his page but he's got his privacy settings pretty high. I can't see who his friends are, and his relationship status appears to be nonexistent. Maybe he's maintaining it to continue to try and keep tabs on the POSOM and/or to see if I go back on FB. I don't know how frequently he goes on there, but I know FB was a trigger for him since that's how my A started, and he told me he couldn't stand seeing the little FB icon on everything. He's still got a text from January of 2010 from the POSOM saved on his cell phone, and has OM saved in his contact list. These things bother me, trigger me, yet I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on in telling him this, since I was the WS. I also know that's not being O&H, but I don't know how to approach these things without angering him, making him feel like I don't trust him when I am the untrustworthy one, etc.

I'm hopeful Dr. H will weigh in soon.

I still know where cokehead lives, and somewhere inside, would love it if he gave me an excuse..

But the true sign that he is no longer scared or anxious, will be when the OM is forgotten.

That is where Dr H can help you, and H too, if he will let him.

From how you describe H, and how much you love him, it would surprise me if he didn't get sick of this fence sitting and seek help from Dr H and the site.

Forgive me if this was already covered, but is H aware of how much the heavy hitters on the site, Dr. H, and well the good people here hate adultery? How many hoops you had to jump through to get your status as a repentant FWW?

Maybe he was here and and it was too soon and the wound to raw, and he didn't know that there are/were hundreds of sensitive strong men here that have suffered because of that particular issue, and he couldn't see how we don't feel sorry for you, heck, God doesn't feel sorry for us, He is a gentleman, and lets us take our consequences and feel the pain.

Hope you hear from Dr H soon WPG

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My extremely remorseful wife and you are very alike. I read your posts because i get to hear the pain my wife feels but doesnt have in her to write about despite what at one time i really needed to read or hear.

You have followed this plan and yet he still is not coming around. Maybe its something in some of us that we can be betrayed beyond belief yet find it in us to forgive.

I know this much: if i was leaving my wife i would not string her out 3 yrs. Nor could i maintain a fence sitting indifference to our marriage for as long as yours is.

Its disappointing to read of someone following mb so tightly not getting positive results but as we know sometimes the results are not what one of the parties wants. Keep fighting.


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CP, he was here on the boards for a little while but hasn't returned. I think he came back and read here for a while last year - I'd see his username under "Who's Online" - but did not post. I don't know what he thinks about what I write here, or the responses I get. I suspect that he thinks I'm just a good actress and a liar, as he's called me in the past.

Mike, it's ironic that you read my posts to hear what your W feels, while I read yours (and other BH's) to hear what my H feels. For the longest time I was afraid to respond to your posts, b/c you were so angry, and I heard echoes of H's anger, and thought about all the hate and disgust he feels towards me. Actually, it was hard to respond to any posts on BH threads at first b/c I feared their response, I didn't want to incur anybody else's anger, you know?

Anyway, I came back online b/c I received a response to Dr. H and I wanted to post it so the folks interested could read:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
While my advice last time was to stay with plan A, my advice now would be to go to plan B. My reason is not to somehow motivate your husband to get on board, but rather to save your health. If this situation goes on much longer, I�m afraid that you may suffer serious autoimmune problems that will last for years. When I advised you to stay with plan A, I assumed that you were in great health, and that you could survive the emotional turmoil. Now I�m not so sure. Besides, all of your plan A efforts have had little effect. I wouldn�t give up on your marriage, but I would suggest a break. That means no contact at all � no conversation and no sex. Have someone else mediate any visitation with the children.

One of the advantages to plan A is to help lose enough love units so that you can leave without regrets. That may have already happened. An advantage to plan B is that whatever love units still remain will be there for him if he decides to become a partner in your marriage. The sooner you leave him, the more likely you will be willing to take him back when he is truly on board.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

I've still got to think and digest this.


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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
...., yet I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on in telling him this, since I was the WS.

....... when I am the untrustworthy one, etc.
Please stop with all the self-pitying, self-deprecating self-talk, OK! You are NOT those things today!




Didn't you cover much of this in early January with your H? You laid out how you felt back then and he didn't shrivel up and melt away, did he? Of course not!
But did you follow it up after a few days?? Probably not! O&H is not a one time deal, it's something you must do regularly, and you must follow up the discussions when necessary.

Look, Radical Honesty is tough, it CAN and in situations like these, usually does withdraw lovebank units, but it's LB Withdraws than the amount you both loose by withholding these truth.

O&H in your marriage is the habit you need to establish and maintain. It's a choice. It's also your decision!


You can and I'm sure you will get Dr. H's thoughts on the air, but you need to remember that he must make certain assumptions about your situation. The biggest assumption he may make is that you've been RH with your H about how you feel since hes been back home. So ask yourself, is that the case? Also ask yourself if Dr. H's advice help you if you are going to avoid following through with one of the most basic concepts (PORH) because of your fear and self-talk?






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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
Anyway, I came back online b/c I received a response to Dr. H and I wanted to post it so the folks interested could read:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
While my advice last time was to stay with plan A, my advice now would be to go to plan B. My reason is not to somehow motivate your husband to get on board, but rather to save your health. If this situation goes on much longer, I�m afraid that you may suffer serious autoimmune problems that will last for years. When I advised you to stay with plan A, I assumed that you were in great health, and that you could survive the emotional turmoil. Now I�m not so sure. Besides, all of your plan A efforts have had little effect. I wouldn�t give up on your marriage, but I would suggest a break. That means no contact at all � no conversation and no sex. Have someone else mediate any visitation with the children.

One of the advantages to plan A is to help lose enough love units so that you can leave without regrets. That may have already happened. An advantage to plan B is that whatever love units still remain will be there for him if he decides to become a partner in your marriage. The sooner you leave him, the more likely you will be willing to take him back when he is truly on board.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

I've still got to think and digest this.
You asked for his advice, and now you should take it, wpg. What is there to digest?

You need to work out the practicalities of things like who will live where, but you really must take the advice.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
Anyway, I came back online b/c I received a response to Dr. H and I wanted to post it so the folks interested could read:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
While my advice last time was to stay with plan A, my advice now would be to go to plan B. My reason is not to somehow motivate your husband to get on board, but rather to save your health. If this situation goes on much longer, I�m afraid that you may suffer serious autoimmune problems that will last for years. When I advised you to stay with plan A, I assumed that you were in great health, and that you could survive the emotional turmoil. Now I�m not so sure. Besides, all of your plan A efforts have had little effect. I wouldn�t give up on your marriage, but I would suggest a break. That means no contact at all � no conversation and no sex. Have someone else mediate any visitation with the children.

One of the advantages to plan A is to help lose enough love units so that you can leave without regrets. That may have already happened. An advantage to plan B is that whatever love units still remain will be there for him if he decides to become a partner in your marriage. The sooner you leave him, the more likely you will be willing to take him back when he is truly on board.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

I've still got to think and digest this.
You asked for his advice, and now you should take it, wpg. What is there to digest?

You need to work out the practicalities of things like who will live where, but you really must take the advice.

QFT

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Definitely time for some action. he can still be upset, and go through times of distrust, but the communication and progress has really broke down. he needs to come out of his own fog also.

Ask Dr H anything you have questions about also, that's what hes here for

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WPG,

That is a very hard message to swallow but I have been thinking this same thought for a few weeks now. I just keep thinking that if you and your H take a break he will see how hard you are trying from a distance and want to come back and try.

That in order to get off the fence he needs a little push.

I know it sounds unrealistic but you never know. I also know it is a lot easier said than done and your DD's will suffer in the process.

Whatever you decide my heart goes out to you. YOu have been a wonderful inspiration to me on what a true FWW should be in the worst situation.

Hang tight WPG, I still see a success story in your future no matter what happens.

Hopes and prayers,

Fifteen


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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WPG,

How do YOU feel about what Dr. Harley had to say in the email??


I'm curious..... Did Dr. Harley just email back and forth with you? If so, are you willing to share the emails you sent too (minus the personal info of course)?? Or did you talk on the phone??








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This is the email I sent (I noticed that Joyce had highlighted the first paragraph and the last 2 paragraphs when she forwarded it to Dr. H):

Originally Posted by me
Hi Joyce - thank you for your response! I have actually been on the show with you & Dr. Harley twice in the past, a little over a year ago. I am �Renee,� who had an affair and wanted to try and rebuild our marriage, and my husband eventually moved out.

The basic backstory is that I had an affair that from March to August of 2009. I immediately ended the affair when my husband confronted me, but lied to him for 4 months about the extent of the affair, telling him it was emotional only when in fact it was physical. During this time, we had not yet found MB, but he met my needs like a champ. He was the husband I�d always wanted. He learned the whole truth in January 2010. We struggled over the next year, finding MB in about June and I ended up having 2 sessions with Jennifer in the fall of 2010. Her advice was Plan A, as was Dr. Harley�s advice when I appeared on the show in Dec. 2010 and again in Jan. 2011 (which was after my husband decided he wanted to separate). Dr. Harley even weighed in on my thread in the forum when other posters were suggesting Plan B, and said that a Plan B in my case would most likely just lead to divorce.

To update you on our situation, much has happened in the last year. I maintained as best a Plan A as I could from a distance, meeting my husband�s needs if he allowed me to do so. The only intimate EN I was allowed to meet consistently was sexual fulfillment. I worked on not being needy and trying to show him an independent woman who didn�t want him for money or childcare obligations, but that I wanted him for him. At the end of August 2011, my father was killed in an accident. My husband came around more and more to help with the children so that I could be with my mother and brother. I took on most of my father�s responsibilities and have been overwhelmed with what can only be described as a mess with his financial affairs. I have been trying to straighten out his estate, handle affairs for my grandmother (Dad was an only child, and my grandmother has dementia and is in a nursing home), and manage my mother�s finances as well as my own.

Then at the end of September, my husband lost his job. The stepmother (who he had been living with) was losing her home because she could not pay the mortgage. He eventually moved back home. When I asked him at the beginning of this year if he would have moved home if she was not losing the house, he told me �Probably not.� He has not found a job, although he says he is looking. He helps with the children and cooking. He does his own laundry. We sleep in the same bed and still have sexual relations, mostly at his initiating.

He went to a doctor about a month or so ago and came home with a prescription for antidepressants, although I learned this only by looking through his things. We are living a very independent lifestyle now even though we are back under the same roof, and most of my attempts to reach out are rebuffed. He rejects any attempts at affection unless we are having sexual relations (for example, if I move too close to him or move like I am going to touch him he'll move out of my reach). When we do have sex, to me it seems more aggressive than affectionate, although he doesn't hurt me physically. We talk, but in no way is it "intimate" conversation, it is mostly businesslike - finances, kids. When dealing with those types of issues, he is generally polite, and if I ask him to do something, he is helpful. On other matters, though, often I will ask a question or attempt to start a conversation and I am met by silence. He shows no interest in my day-to-day life and feelings. To be quite honest, it is very similar to the way our marriage was pre-affair. He is not interested in spending any UA time with me alone (other than sex), but sometimes I can interest him in doing things as a family.

I am depressed and anxious much of the time. I feel very lonely and overwhelmed. I'm also beginning to feel very resentful towards him and don�t know what to do to stop that. I know I am not being open & honest about things that bother me, but I am afraid of how he�ll react to me.

I have posted for a long time on the message boards and it seems at this point there are three schools of thought as relates to my situation. One is that I should do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to "win" my husband back. The second is that I should accept it and live with it in order to minimize additional consequences to my husband & children, accepting that this is a cost of my infidelity. The third is that after 2+ years, I need to accept that this marriage is unsalvageable and move on.

I don�t know if he has too much resentment, or if I was simply unable to offer him enough just compensation. I don�t want anyone else, but I wonder sometimes if I�d rather just be alone. Thank you for reading, and I�m sorry this was so long.

I don't know how I feel other than just...sad. Part of me wants a miracle, part of me doesn't want to give up, part of me is just tired.


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Thanks for sharing ....

So what's next??


Last edited by HerPapaBear; 04/05/12 11:25 AM.




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It's ok to take some time to think it over, and construct a plan. But do give yourself a relatively short deadline to make a decision.

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Originally Posted by kerala
It's ok to take some time to think it over, and construct a plan. But do give yourself a relatively short deadline to make a decision.

Thinking about Dr Hs statement and his concern for your health, I would say the deadline would be for you as well as his recovery. After all he is the Dr.,and the better judge than we are anyways.

Life does go on, and both of your lives matter..

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