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My previous reply was to the quote below. I read the other replys from Hill after.. and THEN noticed hes having a good day.

Good Job Hill! cool


Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
****This is Day 1 of the No-DJ Zone****

My wife had been disrespectful a few times yesterday throughout the day. She was otw home with kids from practice so I made it a point to get dinner going and tidy up the downstairs a bit. She had left out a Tupperware of chicken salad in the sink that had expired. I would have cleaned it out no problem but she didn't ask and I was rushing around getting dinner ready because I knew everyone would be coming home and be hungry. She walks in the kitchen and said, "I thought you would have been nice and cleaned that out for me." I didn't like the comment because to me it was disrespectful and implied that I wasn't nice for not cleaning it out. I replied back, "Well you sure didn't have to be rude about did you?"

And that was the streak-buster. We recovered quickly, but nevertheless I felt as if she was "pushing" me in my chest with her finger on several occasions as if to bait me if that makes sense. Perhaps this is the testing you refer to? The longer I go without a DJ is it possible the harder she tests me? Anyways I'm back to focusing today one day at a time. What I learned is that I need to calm myself and construct a reply. I can't just ignore all of her disrespect indefinitely. I need to let her know that it bothers me. The hesitation I have in doing so is that as you know my wife frequently suggests that "she didn't mean it that way" and even a respectful request can inflame the situation.

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MrNiceGuy,

I have yet to hear Dr. Harley talk about PMS, and there's a reason: IT DOESN'T MATTER. A woman can be very much in love and respectful during PMS, and very hateful and disrespectful the rest of the month. The promblem is not hormones, but rather the fact that she is not in love with her man because he has a history of being verbally abusive.

So would you get off the hormone thing? It may have been an interesting side note about your marriage, but it is not MB and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Hill needs to extend grace all the time, not just now.

Quote
You see (and i have tested this with my wife) ALOT of women (notice i didnt say all women) are not attracted to a man who tells them how great they are all the time (some yes, not all though), talks about his feelings for them and agrees with everything they say (they say they want this but after a while they really dont). In fact they are usually repelled by this behavior because it is SUBMISSIVE! They are attracted to a man who is the center of his reality and has the balls to speak his mind. He doesn't feed into her emotional states. INSTEAD you flip the game with humor and tension so that she feeds into YOUR reality.

I believe Dr. Harley would disagree with you. You've just suggested that a husband ignore very important Emotional Needs (Admiration, Affection and Conversation jumped out at me).

Your wife is not "A lot of women." What works for her won't necessarily work with other wives. That's the beauty of MB -- it can be tailored to each individual. Maybe she doesn't have a high need for Admiration and verbal Affection, but that doesn't mean "A lot of women" don't.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Interesting, I was prepared for getting smacked up side the head for my theory. That article is right on the money though. That is exactly how things progress in my marriage. She doesn't mean anything by it so I'll translate for the time being while I win her back.
This is very good. Respond to the complaint, not the disrespect.

Quote
I guess I have such an issue with someone telling me to do something that they themselves do. It is really an insignificant issue, just a Tupperware dish in the sink, but to me it represents a whole slew of things:

1. I don't like being spoken to disrespectfully.
2. I don't like being referred to as the opposite of nice for not doing a dish that she apparently didn't have time for either(hypocritical?)
3. I don't like that the hard work to make coming home a relaxing fun environment with dinner, clean house, and music goes ignored.
Do you have a high need for Admiration? Dr. Harley has said that people who do are hit harder by DJs than people who don't. A DJ is 100% the complete opposite of Admiration.

Quote
Here is the main difference between my wife me. When she is disrespectful she frequently doesn't know that she is or didn't mean to be. When I'm disrespectful I know EXACTLY what I mean and how it will be received.

You've also been disrespectful without knowing it. I've seen you do it smile Not recently, though. I would say that you are getting a better control on that.


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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Example:

HER: Can you put this in the trash for me?

Old You: Oh, of course! Do you need anything else?
New You: No! Haha just kidding. Sure I can, but what's in it for me? stickout

Be Playful about it! Poke her. Throw paperclips at her head and when she looks your way, whistle like it wasn't you. Twirl her around and dip her ballroom dance style. Tickle her. Steal something from her and get her to wrestle you for it. Give her a piggy-back ride and run at full speed while humming the Jedi theme to Star Wars! ANYTHING ... just have fun make her feel alive again! We always hear how our wives want and love to be swept off their feet, but few of us have the intuition to take this literally or we get so caught up in life and have forgotten how to have fun. It's okay to smile and be a goof sometimes!
Such irritating, immature behaviour would turn me right off my H. Throwing paperclips, tickling, stealing and making me wrestle to get something back...all those things are poking a stick at me to get a response, and the response would be irritation and an order to STOP. That is the kind of behaviour that 16 year-old boys indulge in. My son would do those things to a girl because he felt too insecure and unsure to know how to behave to a girl or to talk to her - so he would treat her like a puppy.

That kind of behaviour would not be meeting my ENs. My romantic, intimate ENs are like most women's; affection (of the non-irritating, non-tickling variety; stoke my hair or give me a spontaneous kiss. Do not throw a paperclip at my head or I might throw a paperweight at yours), and conversation that shows that he is interested in me, where we listen, take turns and respond.

I get a bit fed up with reading "MNG's programme for a romantic marriage" when I come here to read about Dr Harley's.

I also find it disrespectful for MNG to discuss Mrs Hilltopper's menstrual cycles on a public forum without her approval. This needs to stop.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
MrNiceGuy,

I have yet to hear Dr. Harley talk about PMS, and there's a reason: IT DOESN'T MATTER. A woman can be very much in love and respectful during PMS, and very hateful and disrespectful the rest of the month. The promblem is not hormones, but rather the fact that she is not in love with her man because he has a history of being verbally abusive.

So would you get off the hormone thing? It may have been an interesting side note about your marriage, but it is not MB and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Hill needs to extend grace all the time, not just now.

Quote
You see (and i have tested this with my wife) ALOT of women (notice i didnt say all women) are not attracted to a man who tells them how great they are all the time (some yes, not all though), talks about his feelings for them and agrees with everything they say (they say they want this but after a while they really dont). In fact they are usually repelled by this behavior because it is SUBMISSIVE! They are attracted to a man who is the center of his reality and has the balls to speak his mind. He doesn't feed into her emotional states. INSTEAD you flip the game with humor and tension so that she feeds into YOUR reality.

I believe Dr. Harley would disagree with you. You've just suggested that a husband ignore very important Emotional Needs (Admiration, Affection and Conversation jumped out at me).

Your wife is not "A lot of women." What works for her won't necessarily work with other wives. That's the beauty of MB -- it can be tailored to each individual. Maybe she doesn't have a high need for Admiration and verbal Affection, but that doesn't mean "A lot of women" don't.

AND...If I threw a paperclip at my wife's head when she wasn't looking she'd be less into me than she is now! twoxfour

Point taken though, lighten up Hill.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Interesting, I was prepared for getting smacked up side the head for my theory. That article is right on the money though. That is exactly how things progress in my marriage. She doesn't mean anything by it so I'll translate for the time being while I win her back.
This is very good. Respond to the complaint, not the disrespect.

Quote
I guess I have such an issue with someone telling me to do something that they themselves do. It is really an insignificant issue, just a Tupperware dish in the sink, but to me it represents a whole slew of things:

1. I don't like being spoken to disrespectfully.
2. I don't like being referred to as the opposite of nice for not doing a dish that she apparently didn't have time for either(hypocritical?)
3. I don't like that the hard work to make coming home a relaxing fun environment with dinner, clean house, and music goes ignored.
Do you have a high need for Admiration? Dr. Harley has said that people who do are hit harder by DJs than people who don't. A DJ is 100% the complete opposite of Admiration.

Quote
Here is the main difference between my wife me. When she is disrespectful she frequently doesn't know that she is or didn't mean to be. When I'm disrespectful I know EXACTLY what I mean and how it will be received.

You've also been disrespectful without knowing it. I've seen you do it smile Not recently, though. I would say that you are getting a better control on that.

I believe I do have a high need for admiration from my wife, although not in other areas of my life. I hadn't realized it until just now. As far as being disrespectful and no knowing it, I think I have a better grasp on it.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Example:

HER: Can you put this in the trash for me?

Old You: Oh, of course! Do you need anything else?
New You: No! Haha just kidding. Sure I can, but what's in it for me? stickout

Be Playful about it! Poke her. Throw paperclips at her head and when she looks your way, whistle like it wasn't you. Twirl her around and dip her ballroom dance style. Tickle her. Steal something from her and get her to wrestle you for it. Give her a piggy-back ride and run at full speed while humming the Jedi theme to Star Wars! ANYTHING ... just have fun make her feel alive again! We always hear how our wives want and love to be swept off their feet, but few of us have the intuition to take this literally or we get so caught up in life and have forgotten how to have fun. It's okay to smile and be a goof sometimes!
Such irritating, immature behaviour would turn me right off my H. Throwing paperclips, tickling, stealing and making me wrestle to get something back...all those things are poking a stick at me to get a response, and the response would be irritation and an order to STOP. That is the kind of behaviour that 16 year-old boys indulge in. My son would do those things to a girl because he felt too insecure and unsure to know how to behave to a girl or to talk to her - so he would treat her like a puppy.

That kind of behaviour would not be meeting my ENs. My romantic, intimate ENs are like most women's; affection (of the non-irritating, non-tickling variety; stoke my hair or give me a spontaneous kiss. Do not throw a paperclip at my head or I might throw a paperweight at yours), and conversation that shows that he is interested in me, where we listen, take turns and respond.

I get a bit fed up with reading "MNG's programme for a romantic marriage" when I come here to read about Dr Harley's.

I also find it disrespectful for MNG to discuss Mrs Hilltopper's menstrual cycles on a public forum without her approval. This needs to stop.

That made me LOL and well said SC. My wife isn't into those things and I wasn't about to try out MNG's methods any time soon. His points are to:

1. Be flirtatious and playful and fun, not so serious all the time.
2. If I can be more gracious when my wife is hormonal then by all means do so.



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Prisca ... I GET that your offended by the hormone thing. Your a woman. I expect that. I am only trying to provide ways for Hill to be aware. The things I have said have TONS of value and he can tailor it to his own relationship. OF COURSE hill is going to have conversation with her, OF Course hill is going to compliment her and treat her like a lady And Of course he will provide affection. I am not saying to put the brakes on these things PERMANENTLY ... just hold back a bit .. so when it does happen its more genuine. Quit giving away your affection for free ... its possibly boring her and hes too predictable so she stirs up strife to FEEL something. (from my perspective anyhow and I could b be wrong .. been known to be on the rare occasion :P)

Another thing though. Maybe, Hills wife needs this approach like my wife did? I dunno .. I am just throwing it out there for him becasue when i read his thread .. it reads like mine did .. his wife acts like mine did etc. I will let Hill decide what works or doesn't work in his relationship. Its very clear any mention of MB or its tactics in MB terminology and his wife doesn't like it or respond very well. She is NOT a MB so may need something different or the very least different terminology to associate the concepts with.

However as per your respectful request. I will stop mentioning the hormones.

smile

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I am not saying you are doing this now, or that you have ever been guilty of it, but it's something to watch for: A common pitfall for someone who is trying to eliminate disrespect is to think "It's not disrespectful if it's true!" Well, it can be very disrespectful, even if you see it as the truth.

For example only: Your response "Well you sure didn't have to be rude about it, did you?" is very true. She didn't have to be rude. But you were right in seeing that as a DJ from you. So even the truth can be disrespectful.

Again, not saying that's what you did this time, but it's something to watch for in yourself in the future as you work to eliminate all disrespect.


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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Prisca ... I GET that your offended by the hormone thing. Your a woman. I expect that.
I do hope you're not as irritating and offensive to your wife as you are being here.


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Originally Posted by markos
I finally found my notes about categories of disrespectful judgments. They are not as organized as I'd like, but here they are:

sarcasm
criticism
judgment: stating that their perspective is wrong
"should"
lecturing/attempting to educate
gestures, facial expressions? body language?
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2531712#Post2531712
expressing surprise or shock at an opinion or feeling or belief

guilting, shaming
hyperbolizing
always/never
exaggerated words
scolding
name-calling, labelling
saying or doing something you know your spouse identifies as disrespectful

attributing motivations
blaming, fault-finding
expecting them to read your mind


I statements help, but are not an excuse for a disrespectful judgment:
I feel like (DJ)
I feel unloved.
I feel like you don't love me.

Add to my list:
defensiveness

I'm pretty sure I've seen or heard Dr. Harley specifically mention this one. And I know that Prisca finds it disrespectful! Who wants to be talking and expressing their complaint and see it met with a defensive reaction that tries to prove the complaint is invalid? Nobody, I think. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Example:

HER: Can you put this in the trash for me?

Old You: Oh, of course! Do you need anything else?
New You: No! Haha just kidding. Sure I can, but what's in it for me? stickout

Be Playful about it! Poke her. Throw paperclips at her head and when she looks your way, whistle like it wasn't you. Twirl her around and dip her ballroom dance style. Tickle her. Steal something from her and get her to wrestle you for it. Give her a piggy-back ride and run at full speed while humming the Jedi theme to Star Wars! ANYTHING ... just have fun make her feel alive again! We always hear how our wives want and love to be swept off their feet, but few of us have the intuition to take this literally or we get so caught up in life and have forgotten how to have fun. It's okay to smile and be a goof sometimes!

I get a bit fed up with reading "MNG's programme for a romantic marriage" when I come here to read about Dr Harley's.

I also find it disrespectful for MNG to discuss Mrs Hilltopper's menstrual cycles on a public forum without her approval. This needs to stop.

You dont have to read what I type ... I didnt ask you too. I am sure if the mods had an issue with what I was saying it would be removed. I am not hurting anyone .. only giving my opinion from PERSONAL experience. I work the MB program .. and incorporate these tactics into it at the same time. BOTH my wife and I are on board with MB so MB is easy for us and its easy for us to both tease and play with each other too with my mentioned tactics. She loves it and loves the variety it brings in a playful way.

Hill gets it ... I can see he really does. He summed it up nicely .. I just like to elaborate so he can get a feel through my words what those things look like. Am i suggesting he do it exactly as i say? .. no of course not. His wife is not my wife ... IM JUST SAYIN for the sake of his reading pleasure so he can take what he wants away from it ..

Oh and about her menstral cycles .. so its ok to talk about all the things going on in his relationship (sexual and the like) .. but that one item has to stop? Do you think she would approve of him on MB at all? From what Hill has said I am guessing shes not very enthusiastic about MB and so if he was to POJA with his wife about MB i bet you she would tell him to stay away from it?

Dont get me wrong here .. MB is great. Excellent tool .. all of what I have said can be used in a MB sort of way ... just have to read between the lines as Hill as already said he does.

Good Job Hill I believe things will turn around for you after a while. ... I know I am a bit abrasive these days(or appear as such) but really im just trying to help ya out. I will shut up if ya like.

MNG

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Quote
Prisca ... I GET that your offended by the hormone thing. Your a woman. I expect that.
I am not offended because I am a woman, buddy.
I am offended because you are encouraging another man to be disrespectful to his wife. Blaming her moods and disrespect problem on her hormones is VERY disrespectful to her and her feelings. Implying that she cannot control herself during PMS is very disrespectful to her.
I do not have to be a woman to have a problem with that.

For the record, Markos is very well aware of my cycle, and is very tender with me when I am feeling more emotional than normal. BUT he doesn't blame anything on "that time of the month" -- not my mood, not my DJs, NOTHING. He doesn't dismiss my feeling or complaints because of PMS. He doesn't feel the need to handle me with white gloves. He doesn't advise other men to do that, either.

And if he did, I would shut him out of that part of my life completely. It is extremely disrespectful.

Quote
I am only trying to provide ways for Hill to be aware. The things I have said have TONS of value and he can tailor it to his own relationship. OF COURSE hill is going to have conversation with her, OF Course hill is going to compliment her and treat her like a lady And Of course he will provide affection. I am not saying to put the brakes on these things PERMANENTLY ... just hold back a bit .. so when it does happen its more genuine. Quit giving away your affection for free ... its possibly boring her and hes too predictable so she stirs up strife to FEEL something. (from my perspective anyhow and I could b be wrong .. been known to be on the rare occasion :P)
You are writing a recipe for disaster.

Quote
Its very clear any mention of MB or its tactics in MB terminology and his wife doesn't like it or respond very well. She is NOT a MB so may need something different or the very least different terminology to associate the concepts with.
You need not mention MB or terminology in order to practice it.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Prisca ... I GET that your offended by the hormone thing. Your a woman. I expect that.
I do hope you're not as irritating and offensive to your wife as you are being here.

LOL .. nope ... she doesnt see it that way. Shes very upbeat ... easy going .. and likes to tease and be teased in playful ways. Keeps things interesting. We try to find the fun in everything. Even silly simple things. I do all these things in a way that she likes. It just has to be adjusted properly for each individuals humor. It was only suggestions by example. NOt specifics...

smile smile smile


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Moving on.....


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I see a lot of personal strategy being advised instead of Dr Harley's plans. I would ask that posters familiarize themselves with the concepts before posting to help others. The purpose of this forum is to help others apply the Marriage Builders concepts. Thank you for your cooperation.

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I know you probably won't listen, but maybe others who are following will.

Radio clip on complaining


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Originally Posted by Ariel
I see a lot of personal strategy being advised instead of Dr Harley's plans. I would ask that posters familiarize themselves with the concepts before posting to help others. The purpose of this forum is to help others apply the Marriage Builders concepts. Thank you for your cooperation.

Thanks Ariel, got hijacked there for a bit. Most everyone here has been helping me for a long time and I think it just got a little too lively.

Proceeding......

Bottom line is that I thing there is really something to ignoring some of my wife's DJs for the time being so as not to lengthen or stall the ability for her to cross the threshold of romantic love. I would argue there is a difference between djs and DJs. The kind I illustrated was a dj about a Tupperware in the sink. A DJ would be something more intentional with selfish motivations to get something out of me. I don't think she was trying to get anything from, she was just complaining, disrespectfully mind you, that if I see a dish in the sink and I have time to clean it, that would be nice and make her happy. I don't believe there was any LB withdrawal for her having seen that dish in the sink, just an observation by someone who is used to doing things disrespectfully. Had she said, "I'm so sick of coming home and having dirty dishes in the sink. You are just a lazy jerk!" then I might defend myself. smile


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I know you probably won't listen, but maybe others who are following will.

Radio clip on complaining


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I know you probably won't listen, but maybe others who are following will.

Radio clip on complaining

Listening now at work, no one here. I'll listen as long as I can. Btw I used to listen daily when I had a commute. Now I work down the street which is tough! I'll give you feedback when I'm done.


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