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Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
I guess the problem remains in the area of motivation. What's it going to take to get him in gear - that's the million dollar question.


Love Busters covers passive-aggressiveness, apathy, and bad habits. This is really a case of all three. Sounds like what's really needed is a solid plan to deal with the apathy together. Setting aside time every week to read a chapter aloud and answer the questions together will help address that. We used Sunday nights at 8:33PM. Pick the time you like smile

Glad you pointed this out, Door. I had forgotten that Lovebusters covered passive-aggressiveness & apathy - been a long time since I've read that. (LBers are something H and I are good at avoiding, thankfully.)


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Whats going on RQ?

I've seen Kiss post a few times. Never responded to my post but at least he's posting.

The gist of my post to him was about the 'attitude' more than the action. I think the MB way is to focus on the action, but for me the attitude HAD to accompany it. I was not willing to work on recovery with someone who did not have the proper attitude about it. I was not willing to be the one to 'drive the bus' or strong arm him into the program (which is what it felt like). I could, but why would I want to do that. I am too good to be with a man who is not 110% in, KWIM???

So I get you. I am sure there are people reading Kiss's thread believing that he is doing whatever he can 'in action.' But I understand where he's lacking (and many other people do too, from the responses).

Hope you are doing OK. Thinking about you.

What's with the wanting him to move out to work on yourselves and your M? Is this the start of a new Plan B? Just wondering what your plan is here.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
Whats going on RQ?

I've seen Kiss post a few times. Never responded to my post but at least he's posting.

The gist of my post to him was about the 'attitude' more than the action. I think the MB way is to focus on the action, but for me the attitude HAD to accompany it. I was not willing to work on recovery with someone who did not have the proper attitude about it. I was not willing to be the one to 'drive the bus' or strong arm him into the program (which is what it felt like). I could, but why would I want to do that. I am too good to be with a man who is not 110% in, KWIM???

So I get you. I am sure there are people reading Kiss's thread believing that he is doing whatever he can 'in action.' But I understand where he's lacking (and many other people do too, from the responses).

Hope you are doing OK. Thinking about you.

What's with the wanting him to move out to work on yourselves and your M? Is this the start of a new Plan B? Just wondering what your plan is here.

I agree with the attitude being very important, esp for a WH. Dr. H says there is a difference in women and men: with WW's you may not actually get the "hat in hand" where with WH's, it's needed.

I know I've said before that I did not mind leading recovery in my situation. However, that was because my H had a great attitude about it. He was willing to do whatever was needed and demonstrated he was all in. By his body language and general countenance I could feel his sincerity. Therefore, if I had to be the one to say, "OK..this is next on the list..." that was fine by me.

I do believe feelings follow actions. There are definitely times when you may not feel enthusiastic about something but as soon as you start taking the right actions, your feelings change along with those. And - the MB program is definitely an action program! In that sense, yes, if you take the right steps your relationship will improve, even if you start out reluctantly. There is a caveat to that though: if the wayward is still foggy, there is no way of making deposits into his or her love bank!

There's also the factor that at the beginning of recovery, the WS can be going through withdrawal from the AP. In that time period you may not see the bounding enthusiasm towards the spouse. With time (and correct actions) however, that should dissipate. It's been long enough where that should not be the case with Kiss, as long as he is not in contact with OW.

Here's the thing: the process usually works that once you start recovery and are following the plan 100%, you begin to fall back in love with each other and that grows stronger and stronger. With the growth of those feelings something else happens: the WS begins to feel more and more remorse for the hurt caused. I know in my case I was advised to be patient; that over time I would see and feel remorse and repentance more and more. It was absolutely true! When we really got close again is when I started to feel that H truly was sorry about everything. And - I no longer needed the grandiose statements I'd wanted previously, because what I was getting was much more genuine.

I'm sure you've seen my post to Kiss and I expressed the attitude side of things as well. It IS true that sometimes men don't get the emotional stuff: they think if they're checking off the list, that's all they've gotta do. But - I'm sure all of us women have seen our husbands in action: how they wooed us over in the first place. We know it's possible for them to get in touch with that side.

UW brings up a good point, RQ: have a plan - and not plan C! It's good that you are raising the bar but don't do it without a firm plan in place.

ETA: I apologize if this post is choppy - I'm working on two things at once at the moment. smile


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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I'm OK guys. Getting over a bad head cold. Will post more when I can.
Thanks for checking on me.

~RQ

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Hi everyone, just thought I would check in. I have been having a hard time feeling depressed these last couple of weeks and I can't seem to shake it. Followinf the program hasn't been helping, my ic hasn't been helping, coaching

hasn't been helping, even my ad's aren't helping.

I think I'm going back to the doc to try something else. I might talk to my pastor as well. Though I haven't been to church in about a month. I gotta get out of this funk so I can concentrate on my marriage

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RQ,

So sorry to hear about the depression issues. I've suffered with it in the past so I know how it is. Actually, I still do when my hormones are outta whack. Depression can either by driven by circumstances or by chemicals gone awry. When you've gone through major trauma such as marital crisis, it can be both.

Definitely see your doctor about what's going on! You may need a different type of AD.

I think it's one of those things you just have to approach from all angles - from spiritually to diet and exercise to medicines to marriage recovery to personal recovery and so on.

Also, there is a strong link between depression and vitamin D deficiency. You can try taking some supplements or just getting some sun for 15-20 minutes a day. If you aren't eating healthy, make sure you are taking a good multi-vitamin every day. Also, for what it's worth, since I started adding 2 tablespoons of ground flax seed to my morning cereal I have felt SO MUCH better! The omega 3's and other benefits have just really been fantastic for me. My energy level hasn't been this good in a long time.

Personally, I have a lot of coping mechanisms in place for when I start to see the signs flaring up. These days mine is limited to a few days during PMS, typically, but those days can be terrible if I don't pull out all my big guns.

Let Kiss and the rest of your family know how they can help you during this time!

Sorry you are dealing with this.

((((((((((Rocket Queen))))))))))))



"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Working the program isn't working?




"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Hi everyone, just thought I would check in. I have been having a hard time feeling depressed these last couple of weeks and I can't seem to shake it. Followinf the program hasn't been helping, my ic hasn't been helping, coaching

hasn't been helping, even my ad's aren't helping.

AD's can address a chemical issue in your brain, but will do little if your mood is the result of your husband's (in)action.

Treat the root cause, not the symptom.



Me (BH)
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Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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HHH, sorry, I was referring to the depression. I know feelings are supposed to follow actions. I'm hoping that will be the case. I do think that a change in my anti- depressants are necessary

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There's no doubt that marital discord can cause depression. However, there is also such a thing as clinical depression as well, which needs to be treated along side lifestyle changes.

Both parties giving 100% to recovery should shore up the marital side of things but if symptoms are still occurring despite best efforts, it is necessary to look at other causes.

I have battled clinical depression at times in my life - whenever big hormone fluctuations have come along. My not getting help for it was a precursor to the marital crisis that led to H's A, in fact. Thus, I would urge anyone who might struggle with it to seek treatment, be it natural cures, coping mechanisms, medications, along with dealing with it within the marriage. While I realize there are times when too many people are labeled clinically depressed when really they just need to fix their marriages or lifestyles, I would hate to see someone not get the help they need when real depression presents itself.

In my case, I know exactly how to tell the difference these days between emotions that are out of whack due to chemicals/hormones vs being out of whack because my marriage needs work. The "cure" is somewhat different in each scenario. It really takes getting to know yourself to be able to differentiate.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Sunny, thanks for your input. I have dealt with depression off and on since my teens. It got really bad PP after my 4th child but AD's and IC helped a lot. Then it came back after DDay. I had been doing OK (so I thought) with my current AD's until recently. Whether it is chemically related or Affair related, I don't know. BuI hope a switch in my meds will help.

It did get worse when I realized that the DDay antiversary was approaching and thought "what a sucky year!!"

~RQ

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Sunny, thanks for your input. I have dealt with depression off and on since my teens. It got really bad PP after my 4th child but AD's and IC helped a lot. Then it came back after DDay. I had been doing OK (so I thought) with my current AD's until recently. Whether it is chemically related or Affair related, I don't know. BuI hope a switch in my meds will help.

It did get worse when I realized that the DDay antiversary was approaching and thought "what a sucky year!!"

~RQ

Whether it's chemical or A-related - or a combination of both - Kiss can help you a lot right now by becoming your soft place to fall. One of the best ways my H helps me is to listen and to let me know that whatever's going on, I'm not in it alone. That's one of the hardest parts to depression if you ask me, feeling overwhelmed and that you have to somehow solve everything by yourself. Knowing you can share that burden is the first step towards feeling better in many cases.

Right now Kiss needs to learn how to help you. In doing so, if it's completely marriage related that should relieve a lot of it.

Of course, it is perfectly normal to feel anger and/or depression nearing the anti-versary! I know I certainly did. I felt a huge sense of dread and loss.

Do you have any coping mechanisms in place? Have you shared with Kiss what you need? Are the two of you working out a plan to deal with this depression together?

For me, one of the worst things my H could've suggested was that meds could "fix" me - without him working alongside.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Whether it's chemical or A-related - or a combination of both - Kiss can help you a lot right now by becoming your soft place to fall. One of the best ways my H helps me is to listen and to let me know that whatever's going on, I'm not in it alone. That's one of the hardest parts to depression if you ask me, feeling overwhelmed and that you have to somehow solve everything by yourself. Knowing you can share that burden is the first step towards feeling better in many cases.

Right now Kiss needs to learn how to help you. In doing so, if it's completely marriage related that should relieve a lot of it.

He has been a comfort to me and says that things will get better. Yesterday he surprised me with a beautiful bouqet of flowers and a small stuffed animal.

Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Of course, it is perfectly normal to feel anger and/or depression nearing the anti-versary! I know I certainly did. I felt a huge sense of dread and loss.

Do you have any coping mechanisms in place? Have you shared with Kiss what you need? Are the two of you working out a plan to deal with this depression together?

I have just been crying a lot. I hate it. I don't want to be a weepy mess. It is sooo unattractive lol. But I just can't help it. Kiss and I went for a car ride yesterday and I spent it sad and crying. I don't know what else to do. Any ideas would be appreciated. I just feel so hopeless about everything


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When are you getting back into your doctor?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I didn't get a chance to call today but I'm sure I'll get in before the end of the week. I see my IC on Thursday as well. I will talk less with her about my marriage and focus more on me and how I am feeling.

~RQ

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Sorry I haven't gotten back to you, RQ. I've been without internet - darn router!!!

My suggestions (for coping) would be to exercise daily, for starters, and eat right. Make sure you're getting all your vitamins in, esp. vitamin D! Get plenty of sleep but not too much sleep, which can add to depression. Pray, if you are a praying person - and if not, spend 10-15 minutes meditating on good things in your life. Find bible verses and/or quotes that give you strength and memorize them. Have some favorite music at your disposal: the feel good stuff that makes you want to tap your toes or makes you feel victorious. Learn to set boundaries so that if you need a mental health break, you can take it. That's really important with young kids around all day.

Take up a new hobby or take a class - find something - ANYTHING - that engages your brain and makes you feel accomplished. Do you spend any time with friends? I try and have lunch with a friend at least every other week. You would be surprised how much positivity comes back to you when you are able to put some out there - if that makes sense. It doesn't take much to do that. It can be complimenting someone at the grocery store or offering a hand to an elderly person who is struggling... making others smile seems to help us smile ourselves.

So many times we look for big answers to problems that seem big and sometimes, the key to feeling better is in all the little things that add up.

I don't know what your particular challenges are with this or I could try and offer more detailed suggestions. These are just some general things that were suggested to me in one form or another and have helped. I'm glad to hear that Kiss is being supportive. Keep in mind that our loved ones can often try and cheer us up in ways that are good but that aren't exactly what we need. Learn to pinpoint exactly what you need and ask for it!

I hope the doc helps!


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Let us know how things are going RQ, darn depression. I had during pregnancy (can't remember what thats called) and postpartum BAD with the first one, and postpartum a little more mildly with the second, just a taste of what its like and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. (OK, maybe someone but I'm not saying any names here.../posow/) Some day I will stop wishing bad things to befall that girl, but not today. Hope your IC and new meds help get it under control!

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I had a good session with my IC yesterday. She pointed out that whenever I experience depression, the things going on all exhibit being anxious and worried. I don't feel anxious but she is right about being worried. She thinks I am steps away from a full-blown panic attack. She "prescribed" more self care ie: exercising, reading, whatever will keep my mind busy because when my mind is at rest is when it worries. So, Sunny, you were right on the money about that.

She also gave me some ideas about intrusive thoughts that occur at inappropriate times.

So for now, I am continuing my current AD's and also taking my anti-anxiety meds that the doc presribed for me. I'm hoping that will help me get my pyschological strength and motivation back!

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rq- i am hooked on acupuncture- it has calmed my brain so much.


Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Chickadee- really? I never thought about that. I had always been afraid of needles....until I started having kids wink
I might have to look into that

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