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Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to blurt out, "Lovebuster!" every time something occurred.

Ummm, I kind of like this idea. I can yell it while he is sleeping wink

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
As far as the RH goes, I think I am confused as to how to balance RH without bringing up the affair, which we are not supposed to talk about.

I would imagine that, if there is something that's really getting to you, then you should discuss it. I think the intent of "not discussing the affair" is to get it over and done with up front, rather than continuously dragging it out over a period of months or even years.



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Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to blurt out, "Lovebuster!" every time something occurred. I meant that if it is something that Kiss doesn't realize he's doing, and that's why he is repeating the unwanted behavior, to gently point it out when it is happening.

But yes - otherwise, note it and discuss it when you are both in negotiation mode.

This is what H does, he just did it this morning. He was telling me a story and I hugged him and started kissing his neck, he said 'thats a total lovebuster because I feel like you are not listening to me.' I was listening to him I just can't stand to see his lips move without wanting to kiss him somewhere...

I totally understand why he doesn't like it, you know I am a work in progress with this whole being too assertive thing. But I do rather hate getting told I am lovebusting all the time, especially when I am being very affectionate to him as it makes me associate LBing with giving affection, not his intent but you know it is a mental association, Pavlov's dogs.

Being married is hard, so much room for error. smile

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
As far as the RH goes, I think I am confused as to how to balance RH without bringing up the affair, which we are not supposed to talk about.

Me too RQ. I do not bring up the A, if it is on my mind, etc. EVER anymore. I think about it and then put it on the back shelf of my brain. I DO still have days where I obsess about things in one way or another, but I don't share that with H or anything. Often, if it is affecting my mood, he can tell and he will question me about it and I do give him generic 'just having a hard day' type answers but I do feel like I am not being RH with him, in the same way if he came home and said he had a hard day and wouldn't give me any detail I would feel left out.

Also, I still have fake FB accounts, etc. set up to check up on OW's and also monitor H's behavior, I still log into his accounts and look around at random, and I don't tell him any of that and I kindof feel at this point it is being deceptive. I guess I feel that way because of my OWN indiscretions and the boundaries I have set for myself, then to have a secret account only I have the PW for, seems contradictory and deceptive, even though I only use them to monitor HIS behavior.

Feel like I'm TJing on your thread RQ, sorry about that if I am.


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Originally Posted by unwritten
I was listening to him I just can't stand to see his lips move without wanting to kiss him somewhere...


Ah that's mega cute! Did you tell him that?

Ok, if he says 'lovebuster' in future you have a few options. One is to ask 'What type of lovebuster?' just to get clarification on whether he is feeling annoyed at your lack of visible listening(AH) pressured to have sex (SD) or ..well I doubt AO applies!

Just 'lovebuster' alone is very vague and is akin to 'stop it' so asking for clarification on the probelm gives both you the opportunity to be caring and listening, and him the opportunity to ask for what he wants.

If however you just simply dont want him saying 'lovebuster' at you and it is really bugging you - just coach him into respectful requests instead. He says 'lovebuster' and you say 'Are you asking me how I would feel about not doing that and listening to you attentively instead?' and then ask him to phrase all his complaints in that way...

I think Dr H advises 'How would you feel about?' and 'Can we negotiatiate?' as good ways to phrase complaints.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Well I spoke to Kiss this morning about falling asleep on the couch and staying there most of the night. This is probably the 3rd time he has done it this week. I told him that I don't get to spend all day with him so it would be nice to spend all night with him by my side. Also, this is something he did OFTEN when he was immersed in his A so it is a big trigger for me as well. He apologized, said he doesn't mean to fall asleep there, and he understands. But we'll see if his actions actually change.

I have to say, that I am very glad that I am learning to communicate my feelings to him now and not holding it all inside. I had raged silently most of our marriage because I didn't communicate effectively and it manifested into a lot of resentment of him. I can say that that is something I have changed for myself for the better. Now I need to see some changes in him.

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Yes I tell him stuff like that all the time Indie! He knows I can't stand to be in the room with him without having a one track mind (as does everyone else at this point...) That would make me feel like a billion trillion dollars (admiration EN) but for him it seems to have a very different affect. IDK no matter what round about I go through on my own thread, I still think its a GOOD thing to be that attracted to a man I have been with for 15 yrs.

'Lovebuster' has become akin to 'stop it, that annoys me.' I usually know 'why' it is an LB (such as this morning it was because he felt I wasn't listening) but still, it is hard not to generalize just by nature, such as getting the rubberband on my wrist snapped while kissing his neck, my natural instinct is to pull back on kissing his neck, even though he has told me that he just wants me to pay attention to him, ya know? Personally that's why I like to catelog the LB's and present them during a 'review' session if you will, so you can discuss them in a way that leaves less room for miscommunication. Plus, we have kids, almost ALL our conversations are quick interrupted convo's with likely miscommunication, so trying to discuss the 'here's how this feels and this and why' at any given moment can be a bad idea vs waiting until we have each others UA and are able to do it with no interruption and no miscommunication.

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Kiss's #1 EN is SF right? What can you do to make sure he does not have the desire to sleep on the couch, instead of in the bed next to you. I think you stating your displeasure in it is great! But giving him motivation to NOT want to do it is even better.

Indie is this sacrificing, just seems like a win win here. But it is hard for me to see the 'lose' side of SF so I know I don't always see things clearly with regards to it, as we know.

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UW, SF is very low on my EN's so I wouldn't be enthusiastic about that. It is also very emotional for me as I often have intruding thoughts during.

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What are you doing to work on that? I know you have read my lengthy thread about my own SF frustrations, and what a huge impact it has on my attitude, how our recovery is going, etc. Sounds like it is an issue for you as well, and I know how damaging that can be.

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...it may have something to do with his sleeping on the couch as well.

A catch-22, I suppose.


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Well, he put 4-5 times per week on his en questionnaire, and I am close to meeting that (3x or more). But I'll ask him.

*Edited to add - Just talked to him and he is happy with the quatity and quality smile

Last edited by Rocketqueen; 09/13/12 09:58 AM.
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Well, apparently he is not happy with the sf, after all. And didn't come to bed with me last night

Our UA time has been about nil as well for this past week.

I know that MB can work for us, but not if he is unwilling to take part in it. And I still don't see that happening.

frown

Last edited by Rocketqueen; 09/14/12 10:32 AM.
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Well, apparently he is not happy with the sf, after all. And didn't come to bed with me last night

Our UA time has been about nil as well for this past week.

frown

Talk about the first one (his ignoring the problem isn't going to cut it) and bump up the second one to help fix the first one.

Pardon the word salad there, but it's really a cycle that must be broken.


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I know that UA is affecting that aspect but without him giving me his schedule, we are not planning any UA time.

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You could always follow the Doormat_No_More plan for undivided attention: take time off from work and hang out with your spouse all day for several weeks so you have enough time together. Follow them out to the car and ride along wherever they go. Trust your credit card to get you out of a jam if one arises.


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4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
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Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
You could always follow the Doormat_No_More plan for undivided attention: take time off from work and hang out with your spouse all day for several weeks so you have enough time together. Follow them out to the car and ride along wherever they go. Trust your credit card to get you out of a jam if one arises.

Perfect! If only I had a credit card.....

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That is tough RQ.

Why did he indicate he was getting his EN met, but then change his story after the fact?

Why is he not giving you his schedule?

This is so hard, breaking the cycle. The vortex that keeps sucking me and Mr. UW in too. It is the cycle of 'life pre DDay' where there was no such things as UA time requirements, need meeting, and recovery work. Even though it so blatantly obvious that NO ONE should want that life, it is bad habit to want to do as you have always done.

I hate to say that it takes a hero. It should NOT have to be you, or me, or any BS (even though I am not solely a BS but also a WS, I always feel the need to point that out so nobody thinks I am shirking responsibility). It SHOULD be the WS who is driving the recovery process. But I have found in our sitch that my attitude and effort level can turn this thing around. If I have a good attitude, and I drive the process, and I put the UA schedule together and push us to meet it, H gets excited about it and also expends effort. If I do not carry a positive attitude, show resentment, sulk around waiting for him to do it (which you all know I can do!), he is totally deflated and he just withdraws.

Now I am not suggesting it SHOULD be this way. I wish our H's could behave like some of the FWS's on here, who just pushed the recovery process regardless of whether their BS was angry, resentful, withdrawing, or enthusiastically participating. I am just saying this is the way it is, for us. H has recently said his #1 objective right now is to not let my emotions affect him so much, because with one bad day I can sink this ship in a hurry. So even with my own attitude, I am driving this process.

Contrary to some popular belief, I did push the recovery process this summer. I did behave in a way that I would have had I been the sole WS in this, trying to 'win' back my BS. I WISH Mr UW would have led this process and fought for me, but he never really did. Not in the 110% effort I always wanted to see from him.

IDK, today his effort seems like enough. I just spent an hour on the phone with a close friend whose H had an EA a few yrs ago, which he deny's was anything but a friendship, says she blew it out of proportion. He is headed, IMO down the road of an A now as he has many close female friends and one in particular who he spends time with daily. Anyway, I have directed her to MB concepts. She has written him a letter, asked him to fill out an ENQ, talked to him about opposite sex friends, boundaries, etc. He is completely unwilling to embrace ANY MB principles, get rid of his 'friendships,' etc. She is quite stuck, and doesn't know what to do.

I guess during that convo I kept thinking about Mr UW, how he has embraced MB from day 1. How he has been an open book with complete transparency. How he NEVER had opposite sex friends really that I had to compete with. How he tells me every day he wants to make me happy, spend his life with me, have a great future together. And I guess I was just thankful for all that I have to work with. Mr UW (and Kiss) did not do what we wanted. Feel a deep seated remorse for the unbelievable pain they caused us. Come crawling back, hat in hand, willing to spend every minute of the rest of their lives doing whatever they could to make it up to us. But, at least in my case, there is a LOT to work with. As of today, I am inspired enough to keep working with it. Maybe that will change tomorrow, but I hope not.

Do you have it in you RQ to continue this? To be 'the hero' that your relationship needs to pull your M out of this rut? If you don't, or if you refuse to be the one to do so, that is totally understandable. I don't think Kiss has it in him to be that man. Not now, anyway.

I know Mr UW has told me recently how terrible he feels about himself. How dark his life has been over the last couple of yrs. Now I wonder if he was ever capable of giving me what I so desperately needed, when this situation (and lets face it, my own brow beating) had him beaten down to an unrecognizable puddle. How could he rise from the ashes with the strength to fight for this? When I turn the tables, and I fight for this, it inspires him. When I am kind, and affectionate, and loving in the face of darkness, it inspires him to be a better man. (And when I am the opposite, it sends him far far away from me). Can you do this?

Have you done the online program? We are also talking about doing that to hold us accountable to the work.

I hope what I'm saying is helpful, maybe not. I am not saying Kiss shouldn't have to work for it. Just that, as much as we hate to admit it, this is a darkness for the WS too. Perhaps WE are the stronger one, the one that is capable of leading. Perhaps they are incapable of it. In either case, it does need a leader, and in the absence of one the vortex will suck you in. So I guess it depends if you want to let that happen, because IT SHOULD NOT BE you who has to lead, or be the leader, to try and save your M. You will not get a raised eyebrow from this girl either way.

Last edited by unwritten; 09/14/12 01:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by unwritten
Do you have it in you RQ to continue this? To be 'the hero' that your relationship needs to pull your M out of this rut? If you don't, or if you refuse to be the one to do so, that is totally understandable. I don't think Kiss has it in him to be that man. Not now, anyway.

Honestly, unwritten, I don't. I just don't have it in me to drive the recovery bus and I just don't care any more about it. He thinks all we have to do is spend time together and we don't get to do much of that. I want us to focus on marriagebuilder concepts and recovery. He doesn't see that we need to do both. We just had a disagreement about this and he was being defensive. I finally said to him "You are in my effin bed and in my effen house because you said you would work on this" So he said "fine, then I'll leave" ...and he packed a bag and he left. I am just so tired of it. Tired of trying to work this on my own while he does his own thing. Tired of meeting his needs while my heart is still broken.

I don't know where he went, but the fact that he could just up and leave tells me a lot. And I'm glad he left because it's better then keeping on the way I was.

~RQ

PS you are one of many who has said that he doesn't have it in him to be the man I need him to be. He has proven it.


Last edited by Rocketqueen; 09/17/12 11:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I finally said to him "You are in my effin bed and in my effen house because you said you would work on this" So he said "fine, then I'll leave" ...and he packed a bag and he left.

I don't blame you. Enough of the childish games.



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