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Wow777 #2723885 05/03/13 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Wow777
It's hard for me to rationalize that help, like this, could be offensive. We'll talk about it tonight and see where it goes.

I would just stop it. She probably doesn't want to talk about it, and if you talk about it, she'd probably feel pressured to reluctantly agree that it's best for you to continue offering "help."

If you just suddenly stop doing it, she'll probably find you a much more inviting person to talk to!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Prisca #2723888 05/03/13 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Prisca
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Anyway, she never accepts my help and just muddles thru on her own. Thats the kind of IB that bothers me most. I've done A LOT in my life and I can usually offer some pretty good help. Thats where I feel disrespected though. When my opinion doesn't matter to her.
The following are DJs:

"Never accepts my help" (avoid using absolute words such as always and never)
"Muddles through on her own"
"I've done a LOT in my life and I can usually offer some pretty good help" (In context, this implies that she hasn't done a lot in life, and can't make it without your help)
"My opinion doesn't matter to her"

It is also not an IB on her part to ignore your DJs.

Take our word for it, Wow: this excellent analysis by Prisca shows exactly what you are saying that is disrespectful.

Even if she tells you this is okay, it's probably still bothering her and adding thorns to conversation, which should be an intimate and pleasurable experience.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Wow777 #2723890 05/03/13 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Wow777
I've learned along the way that there is always someone who knows more than me and I can usually learn something from just about anyone.

Learn this: there's nothing wrong with a person wanting to figure something out for themselves!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2723893 05/03/13 12:04 PM
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Wow, read through this and tell me if any of it rings a bell:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, Love Busters
Now that they were married, Tom became more critical than he was before. He would bring the smallest errors to her attention and coach her on improving her posture, telepohne etiquette, and other office skills.

Of course, she became increasingly unhappy at work and eventually decided to quit. She used the excuse of wanting to prepare for having children, but her real reason was to escape Tom's incessant criticism. ...

But as soon as she quit her job, she went from the frying pan into the fire. At home Tom became even more critical than he'd been at work. He expected her to develop a high level of homemaking skills and critically evaluated her work each day. Her performance rarely met his stnadards, so she just gave up. Before long, she was spending the day watching television and sleeping.

Since his lectures on homemaking didn't seem to help, Tom turned his attention to subjects of motivation and ambition. When he came home from work, Linda had to suffer through Tom's self-improvement courses. ...

Tom rationalized his efforts to straighten Linda out as his way of caring for her. He would explain to her that he was doing her a favor by helping her overcome weaknesses. In the end, he told Linda, she would thank him for his "coaching."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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...you as the driver did not do anything wrong.

RQ, thank you for your absolution! laugh

But, while I did nothing overtly WRONG, I know there were things under my control I could have done differently. I could have resisted the urge to turn away from the vehicle approaching across the center line. I could have possibly seen him hit the guard-rail well ahead, and veer toward me. I could have been faster/slower filing the tanks with fuel as we started, and not been in that exact spot.

That's just how my mind works. For others, a "not my fault" opinion might be easier to generate/maintain.

As for the WSs, there are some who come here with that "not my fault" mindset, and they usually last here about as long as half the life of a fruit-fly, and spread as much pestilence. I was only giving my opinion of the ones who cannot bring themselves to bare their souls to us here.

markos #2723912 05/03/13 12:43 PM
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Marcos

I dont know if I'm like Tom in that story. I hope not. Are you guys saying that I should never offer her help? I dont do this on everything. This isn't a daily thing where I feel like she needs my help on everything. This job was important to her and I saw that she was struggling with how to get the info she needed so I offered some suggestions. She does a lot on her own and should have more confidence (her words not mine) but doesnt when it comes to this kind of stuff.

For instance, She has a black belt in karate, she is an EMT and firefighter, she has had 3 kids and is a GREAT mom, she is good at helping others get organized, she is great in bed. We used to run a karate school before our kids were born and she always taught the throwing techniques because she's way better at that than I am. She doesn't like to fight so I always taught that part. Did I mention that she is great in bed?

What she doesn't have is much experience in the corporate world and struggles with confidence when she has to deal with corporate folks. That is why I offered my help with this, because I work in the corporate world and do this stuff everyday.

I don't offer this kind of help all the time because she's so good at most things. However, whenever I do offer it, it gets disregarded... When this happens, the result is usually the same as this time. In hindsight, when we look back, it would have worked out much better if she had considered what I had offered. Thats why I consider it to be an IB and not a DJ.

If 2 people have to let each other "just figure it out on their own" aren't we just encouraging IB? Is just listening all the support I can/should give? I'm struggling with this.


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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
...you as the driver did not do anything wrong.

RQ, thank you for your absolution! laugh

But, while I did nothing overtly WRONG, I know there were things under my control I could have done differently. I could have resisted the urge to turn away from the vehicle approaching across the center line. I could have possibly seen him hit the guard-rail well ahead, and veer toward me. I could have been faster/slower filing the tanks with fuel as we started, and not been in that exact spot.

That's just how my mind works. For others, a "not my fault" opinion might be easier to generate/maintain.

As for the WSs, there are some who come here with that "not my fault" mindset, and they usually last here about as long as half the life of a fruit-fly, and spread as much pestilence. I was only giving my opinion of the ones who cannot bring themselves to bare their souls to us here.

Your welcome, my friend. Btw, kiss and I are doing the zip line tour at hunter mountain and making an overnight out of it. Are you familiar with that area? I
Any suggestions?


Last edited by Rocketqueen; 05/03/13 01:35 PM.
Wow777 #2724068 05/03/13 06:41 PM
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I wonder HOW you give the advice, I guess. I have trouble with taking advice as well and this is what I have figured out about myself: I captitulated to whatever he wanted to do when he was home. ( I thought he worked hard and so I should just go along. I was not radically honest.) So there were areas that were MY domain: like homeschooling where I planned and did everything. I finally got to choose what "I" wanted to do. So when he would offer suggestions, I would get really upset because then I felt like I always had to do what he wanted to do. And yes, a lot of times his suggestions WERE better and that just made me feel worse, like I was incapable of making any decisions so I would get even more defensive or dismissive. I'm also trying to figure out with a counselor why any suggestions make me feel like a failure. Because if I make a mistake then I feel like I'm terrible.

What has worked has been the radical honesty which I'm still working on. But if I am radicallly honest about where I want us to go eat or how I want to do vacation or other areas instead of letting him win all the time, I have been much more receptive to his suggestions in other areas. I can take a deep breath and say to myself, "He doesn't think I'm a failure. He just sees this differently. He doesn't think I'm incapable. Deep breath. And then I try to look at his side and we POJA it.

Don't know if it applies, but thought it might. Because I'm sorry but your tone still sounds like you think you can see some situations much better than your wife and that would make me feel really bad if I were her and much less likely to even look at your side.
Originally Posted by Wow777
Marcos

I dont know if I'm like Tom in that story. I hope not. Are you guys saying that I should never offer her help? I dont do this on everything. This isn't a daily thing where I feel like she needs my help on everything. This job was important to her and I saw that she was struggling with how to get the info she needed so I offered some suggestions. She does a lot on her own and should have more confidence (her words not mine) but doesnt when it comes to this kind of stuff.

For instance, She has a black belt in karate, she is an EMT and firefighter, she has had 3 kids and is a GREAT mom, she is good at helping others get organized, she is great in bed. We used to run a karate school before our kids were born and she always taught the throwing techniques because she's way better at that than I am. She doesn't like to fight so I always taught that part. Did I mention that she is great in bed?

What she doesn't have is much experience in the corporate world and struggles with confidence when she has to deal with corporate folks. That is why I offered my help with this, because I work in the corporate world and do this stuff everyday.

I don't offer this kind of help all the time because she's so good at most things. However, whenever I do offer it, it gets disregarded... When this happens, the result is usually the same as this time. In hindsight, when we look back, it would have worked out much better if she had considered what I had offered. Thats why I consider it to be an IB and not a DJ.

If 2 people have to let each other "just figure it out on their own" aren't we just encouraging IB? Is just listening all the support I can/should give? I'm struggling with this.

Last edited by tiredwife45; 05/03/13 06:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Wow NG
I am not going to say another word to FWW about it.


wle2, if you can keep to that promise, then I will count today as a very good day. Thanx!

Me too, WLE!!!

And I agree with Pep - common sense + grace = awesomeness!


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
...you as the driver did not do anything wrong.

RQ, thank you for your absolution! laugh

But, while I did nothing overtly WRONG, I know there were things under my control I could have done differently. I could have resisted the urge to turn away from the vehicle approaching across the center line. I could have possibly seen him hit the guard-rail well ahead, and veer toward me. I could have been faster/slower filing the tanks with fuel as we started, and not been in that exact spot.

That's just how my mind works. For others, a "not my fault" opinion might be easier to generate/maintain.

As for the WSs, there are some who come here with that "not my fault" mindset, and they usually last here about as long as half the life of a fruit-fly, and spread as much pestilence. I was only giving my opinion of the ones who cannot bring themselves to bare their souls to us here.

The "not my fault" types are usually still very foggy! You get a lot of "Yeah..BUT..." instead of personal responsibility.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

Pepperband #2725769 05/08/13 10:41 PM
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...common sense with truth, and comes up with Grace .... and that's when the magic happens.

Spooky Coincidence Number 1:

In the last Harry Potter movie, in his post-death experience, Dumbledore says, "Words are, in my opinion, our most inexhaustible supply of Magic."

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
...common sense with truth, and comes up with Grace .... and that's when the magic happens.

Spooky Coincidence Number 1:

In the last Harry Potter movie, in his post-death experience, Dumbledore says, "Words are, in my opinion, our most inexhaustible supply of Magic."

Thank you Mr. Never-Dumbledore-Guessed!


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2728010 05/17/13 12:03 PM
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Hi everyone, how is the people in recovery world doing today?

Kiss and I are doing well. We had a wonderful weekend for my birthday. We spent the night at a really neat hotel up in the Catskills. It has themed rooms LOL. Ours was not really but was really fabulous in decor and Kiss surprised me with a dozen chocolate covered strawberries in the fridge. Saturday, we went to Hunter mountain to try zip-lining. It was awesome and I can't wait to do it again!! Zip-lining is fun but you are paying so much attention to the tree your flying towards that you don't even notice how high up you are. Haha. Sunday, Kiss and all 4 of my kids surprised me with a trip to the Bronx Zoo. I loved being able to spend the time with them and I hadn't been to the zoo in years!!

The only disappointing thing I have to report is that there still has been no movement in Kiss getting a transfer. I kept asking if he called or if he e-mailed and he would answer "I'll do it tomorrow", etc. I really, really feel it is important that we leave this area and that he leaves the store he is in. There are just too many triggers along my route home. I just feel an urgent need to get out of this area and be able to "relax" and get that fresh start. I think I will have to speak to Kiss and POJA other options. But what do I do if we can't come to an agreement?

I also don't feel safe with Kiss in the store. I don't like not knowing if he is following his EP's and I don't like that he is....reachable to his FAP. I don't like having to trust that there has been no contact and that he has changed his behaviors around the OS.I know that if there as ever a question of his fidelity again, I would not continue to be in the marriage so I am not fearful of what could happen. But I don't beleive that there is enough transparency and accountabilty for me to know for certain that there isn't anything going on that I am not aware of. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I see my IC tonight and then we plan to light up the fire pit, relax and have a few drinks.

SunnyD - (If you are reading) I have determined that my depression is mostly hormone based as it gets worse (weepy and such) during a certain time of the month. And yes, during this time all the bad thoughts in my head want to torment me lol. I remember you mentioning that yours is due to hormones as well. I wonder if an AD is the right option for that?

Anyway, thanks for reading. Keep on keeping on, friends smile

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If you haven't tried St John's Wort it really helped me with hormonal crap and had no side effects. I'm now on a migraine medicine that it doesn't play well with.



Me: 30
Him: 39
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Viscountess, I have st John's wort! Thanks for the reminder. I'm terrible at remembering to take it. I'll start back on it pronto.

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RQ,

Glad you had such a great birthday!!!

And yes - Kiss needs to make that transfer a priority, PRONTO! Is he just procrastinating or is he regretting saying he'd move? You would feel much better if he would take action on this.

I think ADs are VERY useful for depression - hormone-based or otherwise. I felt much more stable on them but I had adverse side effects in the libido and ability to be satisified dept. (Trying to not get into TMI territory, lol.) I tried 4 different ones, to no avail. That's the main reason I started looking at other alternatives.

St. John's Wort took the edge off for me but it was certainly no fix. It's taken a whole re-working of my diet and supplement intake to get me balanced but for the most part, I feel much better! I take 5000 IUs of D3 every day along with an assortment of other vitamins that help. Several of them have anti-depressant effects - along with the D3. I also take a few bio-identical hormones which help to stabilize everything.

Even with all of that - I occasionally still have depressive issues at certain times but I've learned some great coping mechanisms - and H helps get me through too. smile

I actually wish I could just take a dang AD and be done with it! lol But...it's not healthy for a marriage to have problems in the SF department so I've had to be open to other things.

So good to hear from you!


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

SunnyDinTX #2730848 05/26/13 07:06 PM
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My weekly check in. Things are much the same here. Still lacking in UA time as kiss works his 6 day work week Until god knows when. Sucks

Took my kids to a Memorial Day parade today and then to a good friend's parents 50th anniversary. Seems like it always me and the kids doing things and kiss is at work.

Tomorrow is DS's birthday. He'll be 7! So I just finished mowing the lawn. Gotta finish shopping tomorrow am and hope kiss gets home from work before the party starts.

Thankfully, our wedding anniversary falls on Father's Day this year so I am sure I can take any emphasis off our anniversary and instead focus on him. Gotta figure out what to do for the day. Mets game maybe?

Kiss has still NOT done anything to start the process of moving. I think I am doomed to be stuck here forever. Oh well, who knows if moving is the answer anyway, right?

Well happy Memorial Day recovery peeps. Keep on keeping on.

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Still lacking in UA time as kiss works his 6 day work week Until god knows when. Sucks
Why do you live with that?


Markos' Wife
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8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2730854 05/26/13 07:26 PM
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It's temporary but definitely makes things worse when he already works 12 hour days and he worked 5 nights this week. Blech.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
It's temporary but definitely makes things worse when he already works 12 hour days and he worked 5 nights this week. Blech.

Why would you put up with that, even if it's just temporary?


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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