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You don't have to provide details, but I'm curious what was revealed. Cause, you know, you're not supposed to talk about it anymore.


Me (42)
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FTF, you are quite right BUT, I never asked questions about the A before. I knew things from what I had seen and heard and I made some assumptions. I avoided asking questions because 1) I was told not to bring it up 2) I had convinced myself it didn't matter 3) I am a conflict avoider. But I still wondered about things.

To answer your question, my main question was how did the line get crossed? This led to kiss telling me about the dynamics of the affair involving an unhappy husband, a skank with issues, and a lot of conflict. To be honest, I didn't ask for details but what I got was a deeper understanding of WTF happened, reparation to my esteem knowing that the OW could not EVER compare to me in ANY way and I feel a compassion for kiss that I had never felt before.

The resentment that I had felt for soooo long is gone. And in its place is compassion, understanding and a greater love for my husband.

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So happy for you. I know that feels good to hear. I'm curious about it because I long for a conversation like that at some point. I think it would help a lot. I know Dr. H recommends never bringing it up again, but I read about many couples who are able to discuss it much later after all of the fog has worn off. So much of what you hear early on is cloaked in fog and emotions, ya know? I imagine it might be beneficial to talk about it at a later date after everyone involved has "sobered up" so to speak.


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I can only speak for my situation, but it helped me to understand. I agree that it helps when you can talk factually without judgement and without the fog creating rationalization in the WS's mind.


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Keep calm and MB on RQ. I've haven't been posting on your thread but I've been following it. For what it is worth your doing well because you are learning from your mistakes and you put forth so much effort wish you and Kiss the best!

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
FTF, you are quite right BUT, I never asked questions about the A before. I knew things from what I had seen and heard and I made some assumptions. I avoided asking questions because 1) I was told not to bring it up 2) I had convinced myself it didn't matter 3) I am a conflict avoider. But I still wondered about things.

To answer your question, my main question was how did the line get crossed? This led to kiss telling me about the dynamics of the affair involving an unhappy husband, a skank with issues, and a lot of conflict. To be honest, I didn't ask for details but what I got was a deeper understanding of WTF happened, reparation to my esteem knowing that the OW could not EVER compare to me in ANY way and I feel a compassion for kiss that I had never felt before.

The resentment that I had felt for soooo long is gone. And in its place is compassion, understanding and a greater love for my husband.
RQ
It is so good to hear some good news from you you deserve it stay the MB course.

Too often we BS rush to the never bring it up again part and don't go through all of the ask all you need to know part.

Now... never bring it up again and work on that romantic threshold in each other's LB!
Good Luck!


Me 59 newly married after being a widow
Married 1 year
wle2 #2766459 11/17/13 02:09 PM
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Thanks tranquil and wle2! We had a great time in the poconos and got started on some Christmas shopping smile

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From Dr Harley about annoying habits

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Your husband can eliminate any annoying habits that he has, including making noise when he eats. But you need to approach the problem the same way you would approach learning to drive a car. The habits you want him to develop must be carefully defined and monitored until they are replaced by good habits.

First, make it very clear what it is he does that annoys you when he eats. You say that it is making noise from his mouth or plate. As he eats, identify what it is about his eating that bothers you, and what it is you would like him to do instead. I assume that you don't make much noise when you eat, so you are probably eating the way you would like him to eat.

Then carefully teach him his new eating habits. Watch him eat, and correct him if he falls back into his old way of doing things. You may feel a little discouraged when his habits don't change right away, and he may feel uncomfortable trying to eat in a way that doesn't feel right to him. That's the way we all feel when we try to change our habits. But the alternative is a lifetime of unpleasant dining. Once his habits change, and they will within a few weeks, you can look forward to a lifetime of enjoyable meals together, instead.


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Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Then carefully teach him his new eating habits. Watch him eat, and correct him if he falls back into his old way of doing things.
Carefully teach him.

The equivalent of your advice for MM to refuse to deal with the socks and tossing them in a pile for his wife to deal with would be for this wife to refuse to eat at the same table as her husband, or perhaps for her to refuse to cook for him and let him eat alone.


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There is bound to be advice in the private forum that would help. I will look for it when I have time.


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
From Dr Harley about annoying habits

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Your husband can eliminate any annoying habits that he has, including making noise when he eats. But you need to approach the problem the same way you would approach learning to drive a car. The habits you want him to develop must be carefully defined and monitored until they are replaced by good habits.

First, make it very clear what it is he does that annoys you when he eats. You say that it is making noise from his mouth or plate. As he eats, identify what it is about his eating that bothers you, and what it is you would like him to do instead. I assume that you don't make much noise when you eat, so you are probably eating the way you would like him to eat.

Then carefully teach him his new eating habits. Watch him eat, and correct him if he falls back into his old way of doing things. You may feel a little discouraged when his habits don't change right away, and he may feel uncomfortable trying to eat in a way that doesn't feel right to him. That's the way we all feel when we try to change our habits. But the alternative is a lifetime of unpleasant dining. Once his habits change, and they will within a few weeks, you can look forward to a lifetime of enjoyable meals together, instead.

Dr. Harley would never tell me to teach Prisca new habits. That would be disrespectful. I might post in the private forum asking him about this wording.


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Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Quote
Dr. Harley would never tell me to teach Prisca new habits.

When one spouse "teaches" the other a new habit in order to stop an annoying habit, both spouses are in agreement with how that is going to be done. In this case, the wife is "teaching" the husband how to eat in a way that wouldn't annoy her -- but he has agreed to let her show him what to do. If he didn't agree to this, another approach would have to be taken to solve the problem. She is not imposing herself or her beliefs on him. She has not put any value judgements on the annoying habit -- his habit is not WRONG and her belief is not RIGHT. They have agreed to work on the problem together.

The wife could very easily fall into the trap of demanding the husband do things her way, or DJing him by educating him against his will, or DJing him by adding value judgements to the problem. VERY easily. But doing so would get her nowhere -- the husband would be less likely to want to eliminate the annoying habit.

You cannot respond to a lovebuster with a lovebuster.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force our spouses to give us what we want in marriage, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our spouse's personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our spouse in an effort to get our way.

At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.


A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.

In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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I'm.sorry but I still see identifying an annoying habit and making a disrespectful judgment 2 conflicting things. Like you can say its annoying but it is DJ to do so. I guess I am missing something. But thank you for clarifying how to handle them.

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
From Dr Harley about annoying habits

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Your husband can eliminate any annoying habits that he has, including making noise when he eats. But you need to approach the problem the same way you would approach learning to drive a car. The habits you want him to develop must be carefully defined and monitored until they are replaced by good habits.

First, make it very clear what it is he does that annoys you when he eats. You say that it is making noise from his mouth or plate. As he eats, identify what it is about his eating that bothers you, and what it is you would like him to do instead. I assume that you don't make much noise when you eat, so you are probably eating the way you would like him to eat.

Then carefully teach him his new eating habits. Watch him eat, and correct him if he falls back into his old way of doing things. You may feel a little discouraged when his habits don't change right away, and he may feel uncomfortable trying to eat in a way that doesn't feel right to him. That's the way we all feel when we try to change our habits. But the alternative is a lifetime of unpleasant dining. Once his habits change, and they will within a few weeks, you can look forward to a lifetime of enjoyable meals together, instead.

Dr. Harley would never tell me to teach Prisca new habits. That would be disrespectful. I might post in the private forum asking him about this wording.

I note, as well, that "annoying habits" is expressly compared to "good habits" and NOT "the way I would prefer my spouse to do things". "Good" implies judgment.

It might be easier to understand if the example was not something that many people would find unpleasant (eating noisily), but say, using the right or left hand to hold a fork. Some people DO have a strong preference about that, and would find the opposite practice annoying. But it is a "good habit"?

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That's why "it bothers me when ..." is suggested. It's a way to bring something up even if your spouse doesn't want to work on it. No judgement, no force, while you remain open and honest.



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LifetimeLearner #2768280 11/26/13 07:58 PM
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So, 2 days before thanksgiving and I am already entering the sadness surrounding the holiday. Thanksgiving for us has changed a lot since kiss spent the night with his AP til 3am the night before thanksgiving 2 years ago. Then he had the nerve to make his usual thanksgiving breakfast while I laid in bed and cried my eyes out. I was such a wreck that my mom and SIL came over to talk to me. I was finally able to get dressed and go to Dinner at my parents house. I was a mess, just pushed turkey around my plate.

Ever since, my parents have stopped having thanksgiving at their house. Now my parents go to my brother's house, and we eat here alone. I suppose a change in tradition is a good thing. But, honestly, I hate it. And I wish things were the way they used to be.


Last edited by Rocketqueen; 11/26/13 08:17 PM.
Everthesame #2768285 11/26/13 08:44 PM
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Maybe change things up this year RQ. (with POJA). Maybe head out of town, volunteer, or cook lasagna instead of turkey. Make a new tradition. Hugs.


"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
Logans_Run #2768291 11/26/13 09:35 PM
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How is the relationship between your parents/family and kiss?


Me (BH)
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Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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I suppose that is what we should do, Logan. I just miss the big family dinners that we used to have, you know? I'd rather skip thanksgiving altogether, personally.

North wood, their relationship is still not great. They can be in a room together and make small talk, so there is improvement but it will never be what it was.

Sorry to be a downer. On the bright side, I am thankful that DD18 is home from college for the next few days!

Everthesame #2769373 12/04/13 11:53 PM
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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