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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Hey hon.

I kind of had a hunch from your FB page and your silence on here. I never messaged you to ask about it because I don't give unsolicited advice. Indeed you don't seem to be asking for advice now. I am only pleased that you are happy and hope this guy is half good enough for you.

Marriages which start while the partners are legally married are not the same as affairages which start out as a deception. I know you know that Dr H has made that distinction in the past. That doesn't make it a GOOD idea but I'm not going to set off any fire alarms over it as I would if it were a potential affairage.

I would have been intensely worried had you told me at the time that you were starting a dating search while still married and feeling down, but what's done is done.

I would have worried that you might attract someone who doesn't value marriage. The living together thing would also raise some alarms that he might not be a buyer. But I know you know enough about MB to filter these questions for yourself. Like I said you haven't really asked for any advice, so I won't offer any. It's your life.

I have to echo what Miss Indiegirl has stated.

My only question I had is why the delay in the divorce? I know there is a waiting period, but that should be well past done. If financial reasons, well I think many of us can understand that.

Great to see you posting. I hope to see more. hug


"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The lesson to be taken from this thread is some great Plan B tips and also to MAINTAIN BOUNDARIES AROUND THE OPPOSITE SEX WHILE SEPARATED.

In this case, the poster had her emotional needs of conversation met in a chat room to the point that she fell in love.
Marriage Builder forums disable direct communication between members to prevent betrayed spouses from communicating directly to avoid this scenerio.


I know that in this particular case Scotty was done with her marriage and trying to find a way to afford divorce. Divorce in her case would have left her without as much financial support at a time when she was in dire straits.

It wasn't that she was waiting for her H to return, as is usual with Plan Bers who are still married.

I didn't necessarily think it was a good plan because she is human and I felt she would naturally start to crave companionship when she wasn't dedicated to following a recovery plan. I felt that if she was done, she should divorce.

I am sure she would agree with me now, and wishes that she had. That's hindsight.

However lets remember that she has followed a dark Plan B with very high boundaries around members of the OS for many years. Longer than I ever did. It's not like she hasn't done the tough stuff willingly and well.

I think the lesson here was rather that she maybe should have considered Dr Harley's advice to divorce at the two year point when he essentially considers the marriage unrecoverable.

I thought at the time when she decided to carry on she may have underestimated how lonely that would be. Being a married Plan Ber is not designed to be a permanent state of existence. It is very lonely and very tough.

Plan Bers after all cannot go on being alone forever. I am a proud Plan Ber and always will be. Yet I am dating.

Last edited by indiegirl; 11/25/13 03:34 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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*Disclaimer. I cannot be objective about Scotty. She was my IM, one of the few (only?) proper Plan B examples for me to follow and she absolutely saved my life.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

GJM #2768059 11/25/13 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by GJM
Hi Scotty,

No matter what has happened, you deserve to be happy. I think you've done a great job with your Plan B and you gave your marriage your best shot. It's not your fault the marriage ended and you shouldn't have to pay for someone else's mistake. I wish you all the best and I know you will use the tools that were given to you to make the best relationship possible with your new man. Take care of your self and thank you for all of your help when I was going through my situation.

Actually she isn't using any tools she learned and is not following Dr Harleys advice

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The lesson to be taken from this thread is some great Plan B tips and also to MAINTAIN BOUNDARIES AROUND THE OPPOSITE SEX WHILE SEPARATED.

In this case, the poster had her emotional needs of conversation met in a chat room to the point that she fell in love.
Marriage Builder forums disable direct communication between members to prevent betrayed spouses from communicating directly to avoid this scenerio.


I know that in this particular case Scotty was done with her marriage and trying to find a way to afford divorce. Divorce in her case would have left her without as much financial support at a time when she was in dire straits.

It wasn't that she was waiting for her H to return, as is usual with Plan Bers who are still married.

I didn't necessarily think it was a good plan because she is human and I felt she would naturally start to crave companionship when she wasn't dedicated to following a recovery plan. I felt that if she was done, she should divorce.

I am sure she would agree with me now, and wishes that she had. That's hindsight.

However lets remember that she has followed a dark Plan B with very high boundaries around members of the OS for many years. Longer than I ever did. It's not like she hasn't done the tough stuff willingly and well.

I think the lesson here was rather that she maybe should have considered Dr Harley's advice to divorce at the two year point when he essentially considers the marriage unrecoverable.

I thought at the time when she decided to carry on she may have underestimated how lonely that would be. Being a married Plan Ber is not designed to be a permanent state of existence. It is very lonely and very tough.

Plan Bers after all cannot go on being alone forever. I am a proud Plan Ber and always will be. Yet I am dating.

Indie, many of the excuses you make are the same that others have made.
For example, ChristianSamurai wife is saying the same thing, that she was done and emotionally divorced.
We all hear this all the time.

The fact is nobody is taking a moral high road here.
But the fact her boyfriend is married is a major red flag and we have a dear poster yhat has downgraded to renter adultery status

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I don't want to bash Scotty.

But I confess to being surprised that someone who continually described herself as a "Supreme Buyer" (in fact she used all-caps) would let a man move in with her and her boys after, by my count, 4-5 months of an online relationship.

While she remains married.

Am I missing something here? Is this not utterly contrary to everything that MB stands for?

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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Indie, many of the excuses you make are the same that others have made.
For example, ChristianSamurai wife is saying the same thing, that she was done and emotionally divorced.
We all hear this all the time.

The fact is nobody is taking a moral high road here.
But the fact her boyfriend is married is a major red flag and we have a dear poster yhat has downgraded to renter adultery status


I'm not making excuses, but neither will I be so gauche as to tell her what she 'should' do.

Remember, she hasn't asked for our opinion.

If she wants MB advice, she will ask for it.

Someone asked why she wasn't posting much so she told us.

Last time I checked, Canada is a free country where people can do as they please.

If someone isn't requesting advice, you have to yell pretty loud when giving it. I suggest we not do that.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I respect what your saying indie but this is a simple affair. Plain and simple they are both married and living together. It's very weird and confounding to see veteran posters wish her happiness when we all know she is setting herself up for failure. Even though she hasn't asked for advice the forum is for advice whether she takes it or not. ***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:02 PM. Reason: TOS: Non-MB advice
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Gauche?
This is a forum to share Dr Harleys philosophies.
Its not a personal blog.
If a friend start s making bad decisions do you come to them and talk or juat say, She hasn't asked for my opinion

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Originally Posted by TranquilDark
***EDIT***


That is rather disrespectful, don't you think?

It is also inaccurate. Dr H has been asked specifically if relationships that began before parties divorced are the same as affairages. He says not. He does not advocate either one, but he makes a distinction between the two.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Gauche?
This is a forum to share Dr Harleys philosophies.
Its not a personal blog.
If a friend start s making bad decisions do you come to them and talk or juat say, She hasn't asked for my opinion

Not even Dr H gives unsolicited advice. He makes a point of saying it is disrespectful to try and tell others what to do. I take my cue from him.

If Scotty wants my advice she can have it. Until then I will not say a word about it either way.

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:04 PM. Reason: Removing quote

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I don't know Scotty's motivations for posting here, but Indie's suggestion that if someone isn't seeking advice then it is "gauche" to offer them an opinion about their actions simply does not square with SOP (std op proc) on this board.




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***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:09 PM. Reason: TOS: disruptive

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:11 PM. Reason: TOS: disruptive

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:12 PM. Reason: TOS: disruptive
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Indie, I'm sorry but you sound just like my WW's enabling friends and family. If a friend is making a bad decision. Do you let them know of let them destroy themselves? I won't commit further but it seems you are letting Scotty get a pass because you guys are friends. If this was a new poster I bet my paycheck we wouldn't see all this enabling. How many times does Joyce say on the radio show you don't date while in separated or in Plan B? They are living together while married I'm sorry that's an affair and renter relationship. Saying it might leave to a marriage ***EDIT*** is just being honest. I haven't heard Dr. Harley once say its ok to date during a marriage. Please post that quote or link.


Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:13 PM. Reason: TOS: Non-MB advice
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Originally Posted by kerala
***EDIT***


Such as? Am I being dim, I really don't pick up on your meaning here.

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:14 PM. Reason: removing quote

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Indie, I'm sorry but you sound just like my WW's enabling friends and family. If a friend is making a bad decision. Do you let them know of let them destroy themselves? I won't commit further but it seems you are letting Scotty get a pass because you guys are friends. If this was a new poster I bet my paycheck we wouldn't see all this enabling. How many times does Joyce say on the radio show you don't date while in separated or in Plan B? They are living together while married I'm sorry that's an affair and renter relationship. Saying it might leave to a marriage ***EDIT*** is just being honest. I haven't heard Dr. Harley once say its ok to date during a marriage. Please post that quote or link.


I didn't say it was OK. And if Scotty was unaware of MB, I would let her know the facts and then let her choose what she wanted to do. But you seem to have a problem distinguishing between your WW, and Scotty. Between affairages and this situation.

That's fine, I respect your viewpoint and your value of marriage. I just wouldn't place those values unwillingly onto others.

Last edited by Toujours; 11/25/13 07:15 PM. Reason: editing quote

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Indie, I'm sorry but you sound just like my WW's enabling friends and family.


This is also really rather disrespectful. If you wouldn't mind, please do not do that.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Enough with the bickering. Please help this poster with Marriage Builders principles or refrain from posting.


ToujoursMB@gmail.com
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
That's fine, I respect your viewpoint and your value of marriage. I just wouldn't place those values unwillingly onto others.

Well, but�

With the exception of Scotty's last post, I kind of thought that those WERE her values.

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