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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[
I totally understand and always try to have the kids in the "best way" possible when they go to someone else's house. But at the same time that is not always possible. Like last night we asked for my mom to watch them so we could go to eat and talk about all this. They had both been at daycare all day long so I really wasn't in control of how their day went. The little one was having diarrhea, etc. The big one can be "distracted" not so much with the two year old. He has a very strict diet (medical purposes) which is not easy to manage, he is a climber, he can scale anything. I turned my head for a few seconds one day while cooking and he was 6 ft up on top of a bookshelf! Luckily it was bolted from the top! I am saying this to say, he is not bad, just not necessarily an easy little one to take care of smile.

Can you raise these boys as a single mother?


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You and your husband have developed a lot of terrible habits in your marriage that will lead to the demise of your marriage. IT will take a radical overhaul to turn this around. I see you trying to fiddle around the edges in the hopes that this will be enough. It will not be. Half measures will avail you nothing. Take it from people who have transformed their marriages.

Instead of coming up with a million reasons why you CAN'T do this program, I would use that energy looking for solutions. Otherwise you are wasting our time and yours.

And don't tell me you can't do the UA time or that your husband HAS TO have a 2nd job. We have people here who have 7 kids, with an infant, who manage to do this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
I do care about his feelings and feel bad and want to help him through his feelings of insecurity. I thought I had been doing everything I possibly could to do that, and it never got any better (it never "created trust" as mentioned before). In fact the more transparent I have tried to be, the more and more these problems happen. What am I supposed to do when transparency is not enough, and when the way he handles these feelings is just downright mean and disrespectful?

JBK, and he may never feel secure no matter what you do. Some people are just wired like that. What the program would do is teach him to stop committing love busters when he feels that way.

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I am not trying to be difficult and I completely "buy in" to everything about the program, but I think there are deep issues here and I don't know if I can help him through them.

AGree.

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Off of the issue of feeling insecure, and on to the UA for a minute. Someone mentioned about "coaching and other activities" later..... I'm not sure if I made the coaching part clear. This is not a hobby where he coaches little league or anything like that. This is his job. Our marriage needs to be first, which it is not now, but our family couldn't survive without us having jobs. There is no way for our UA time to come before his job. I am going to have to get creative with how to find the time after his job.

Your family is not surviving. You are headed to divorce. How will you survive when you are divorced? I assure you that you won't get the benefit of that coaching job if you are divorced. We aren't asking you to make your family destitute, but you need to find an option that accommodates your marriage instead of the other way around.

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I know some of you may suggest "he should do a different kind of job". This is something he did at the beginning of our marriage (the first 2 years), and it nearly killed us. He was miserable and I was to the point where I didn't hardly like to be around him. It is a much happier person in the career that he is very good at and I want him to have that in his life. Can't he have a successful career and marriage?

You are killing your marriage. So the solution is to find a career that accommodates your marriage.

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As for the dates being out of the house, I understand what everyone is saying, and you are likely right that the attention wouldn't necessarily be there. I guess what I was thinking was earlier in our marriage we used to get in bed a little early, and a lot of time we would goof around together, sometimes have good conversation and sometimes it would turn intimate. If we could somehow bring that back that would at least get some hours started and then try to work in the dates as well?

I would focus on finding a way to get 4 4 hour dates out of the house instead of looking for ways NOT to do that. In the past you were in love and focused on each other. Now you are not.

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I very much appreciate all the advice, and I understand people come here and are skeptical, but I honestly feel like our personal situation is not being taken into account. Like the finances for example....

You are not looking at the big picture. Part of your problem is that you believe you can fiddle around the edges and effect some change. You cannot. You need to be thinking of your finances when you are DIVORCED because that is where you headed.

You need to take a more serious approach to this process if you want to stop the divorce train.

I don't know how to break up the quotes like you did or I would. I don't want to just scrape the edges, I want a full happy healthy marriage and honestly believe that we could have that. Also, I am still in love with him, and do care about him very much, but it is getting harder and harder to keep the feeling. He claims he still is in love with me, but I can't speak for him, only for myself.

I don't feel like we are headed for divorce, I feel like we are headed for a life of misery if things don't change. (But they are equally unappealing / so I understand the point).

As for the program teaching him how to handle the love busters that is what I pray could happen. It is like something else takes over him when he has these feelings, like I am not even dealing with the person I married.

As for the career, I just don't see how it is the problem. For example, before kids came along, even with the busy career, we had plenty of time we could have enjoyed each other and did not take advantage of it. So WE were the problem, not the career. I don't think he wanted to neglect me, just did not realize the importance. He is admitting now, that time is a huge part of what we need, so I am hopeful that we can change. Getting a different career would not change us and would also make him unhappy with that aspect of his life.

I will began to stress the importance of us getting out of the house together and find ways to make it happen. To add to everything we need to accomplish his mom is now in the hospital for at least a couple weeks. So now we only have one set of grandparents to turn to, but I know we are blessed to have that! We never have until now.

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[

As for the career, I just don't see how it is the problem. For example, before kids came along, even with the busy career, we had plenty of time we could have enjoyed each other and did not take advantage of it. So WE were the problem, not the career. I don't think he wanted to neglect me, just did not realize the importance. He is admitting now, that time is a huge part of what we need, so I am hopeful that we can change. Getting a different career would not change us and would also make him unhappy with that aspect of his life.

I will began to stress the importance of us getting out of the house together and find ways to make it happen. To add to everything we need to accomplish his mom is now in the hospital for at least a couple weeks. So now we only have one set of grandparents to turn to, but I know we are blessed to have that! We never have until now.

JBT, his career is just fine as long as you can get 4 - 4 hour dates out of the house every week and follow the program. And yes, you are headed to divorce. You aren't coming here because you are happy in your marriage, so please don't try to tell me everything is fine. And I do realize you had another posting name previously because I recognize the story. [bb? something?]

Can you follow the program or not? If you can, I would be glad to help you. If you refuse to follow the program, you are wasting our time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You and your husband have developed a lot of terrible habits in your marriage that will lead to the demise of your marriage. IT will take a radical overhaul to turn this around. I see you trying to fiddle around the edges in the hopes that this will be enough. It will not be. Half measures will avail you nothing. Take it from people who have transformed their marriages.

Instead of coming up with a million reasons why you CAN'T do this program, I would use that energy looking for solutions. Otherwise you are wasting our time and yours.

And don't tell me you can't do the UA time or that your husband HAS TO have a 2nd job. We have people here who have 7 kids, with an infant, who manage to do this.

Sorry, I did not see this yet when I replied a while ago. I am certainly not trying to waste anyone's time. I very much appreciate all the help and advice y'all are giving me.

Just to clarify, he does not have a second job, this IS his job, his only job.

I do agree that it will take a radical overhaul to change our marriage, and I am willing and wanting to do the program. That is exactly why I am here wanting help, and asking for feedback.

I can not do the program alone, I have to have my husband on board to make it successful. If I went to him and said "you need a different career for us to save our marriage" his willingness to try would be over.

I don't want to hit only the edges, I guess I was thinking of it like steps in the right direction. For example, we both committed to the joint agreement, to sitting down on Sundays to plan our week out, and to stop the love busters (which I know will be a work in progress, but I do believe we are both serious about it). To me these are huge steps in the right direction. Maybe we are only scratching the surface at this point, but don't we have to start somewhere, these changes are to big to just happen overnight.

What am I saying to come across so wrong? How long did it take some of you couples who have successfully turned around a marriage? I'm assuming it is a process not an immediate answer. We already had some successful negotiations last night. Just on day 1 of trying to make a change.

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Yes it is. I tried to log -in as that screen name but it continued to tell me I had the wrong info, so I eventually just created a new one. At that point I was in a really bad mind frame with him. I was to the point of giving up and becoming very depressed over it. I never asked him to work through the program with me at that point, and I know I was very defensive and angry.

Things got better for a little while and I got so hopeful that maybe our bad period was over. But I have now realized that each time they are better, it will only be temporary until we make changes in ourselves. Including myself. I have been reading the site for weeks before I came here to ask questions this time. I wanted to educate myself more and begin to attempt to change my responses to him. Something that he acknowledged last night that I was doing a better job with.

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JBKT - my husband and I work crazy hours too. But we are still able to get our UA time. Sit down together with a schedule grid covering 7 24 hour periods. PUt in UA time. Then everything else. What you put in first gets done. The other stuff can be made to fit around it.

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Originally Posted by apples123
JBKT - my husband and I work crazy hours too. But we are still able to get our UA time. Sit down together with a schedule grid covering 7 24 hour periods. PUt in UA time. Then everything else. What you put in first gets done. The other stuff can be made to fit around it.

Thank you for the encouragement. Are all of your hours out of the house or is it mixed? That is the hardest part I am having trouble wrapping my mind around.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
[

As for the career, I just don't see how it is the problem. For example, before kids came along, even with the busy career, we had plenty of time we could have enjoyed each other and did not take advantage of it. So WE were the problem, not the career. I don't think he wanted to neglect me, just did not realize the importance. He is admitting now, that time is a huge part of what we need, so I am hopeful that we can change. Getting a different career would not change us and would also make him unhappy with that aspect of his life.

I will began to stress the importance of us getting out of the house together and find ways to make it happen. To add to everything we need to accomplish his mom is now in the hospital for at least a couple weeks. So now we only have one set of grandparents to turn to, but I know we are blessed to have that! We never have until now.

JBT, his career is just fine as long as you can get 4 - 4 hour dates out of the house every week and follow the program. And yes, you are headed to divorce. You aren't coming here because you are happy in your marriage, so please don't try to tell me everything is fine. And I do realize you had another posting name previously because I recognize the story. [bb? something?]

Can you follow the program or not? If you can, I would be glad to help you. If you refuse to follow the program, you are wasting our time.

I agree everything is NOT fine, it is not even ok. It is bad. Yes, we do have times where we are "fine" but I know they are only temporary. All I was saying is that I have no intentions of getting divorced, and he doesn't either. So where does that leave us, just being unhappy? I know we could be happy and that is why I am here.

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I do want to do the program and I do want help. If you read through any of the other post I made previously I hope you can see that I have had a different mindframe, and I have learned about the program. Before I just stumbled upon the board, not knowing anything about it before asking for help.

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[I don't want to hit only the edges, I guess I was thinking of it like steps in the right direction. For example, we both committed to the joint agreement, to sitting down on Sundays to plan our week out, and to stop the love busters (which I know will be a work in progress, but I do believe we are both serious about it). To me these are huge steps in the right direction. Maybe we are only scratching the surface at this point, but don't we have to start somewhere, these changes are to big to just happen overnight.

Ok, if you are both committed, then start with these 2 steps: schedule 20 hours per week of UA [4-4 hour dates] time using this schedule: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4508_tuaw.html. Click on that link and then click on the PDF link and download and print up the PDF. AND focus all of your attention on eliminating love busters. The POJA can come later.

Do you have the book Lovebusters?



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Also, tell me again when you are speaking to the Harleys? Are you getting help from them?


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
[I don't want to hit only the edges, I guess I was thinking of it like steps in the right direction. For example, we both committed to the joint agreement, to sitting down on Sundays to plan our week out, and to stop the love busters (which I know will be a work in progress, but I do believe we are both serious about it). To me these are huge steps in the right direction. Maybe we are only scratching the surface at this point, but don't we have to start somewhere, these changes are to big to just happen overnight.



Ok, if you are both committed, then start with these 2 steps: schedule 20 hours per week of UA [4-4 hour dates] time using this schedule: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4508_tuaw.html. Click on that link and then click on the PDF link and download and print up the PDF. AND focus all of your attention on eliminating love busters. The POJA can come later.

Do you have the book Lovebusters?

So we shouldn't implement the POJA yet? I think some of our biggest love busters are independent behaviors (which also lead to the angry outburst,etc.), on both sides, so I guess I assumed that the POJA could help us start avoiding love busters.

I have read every article and basically everything on the website. So I have learned about what they are, but have not read the actual book.

I will head to the link you sent now...

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[

Ok, if you are both committed, then start with these 2 steps: schedule 20 hours per week of UA [4-4 hour dates] time using this schedule: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4508_tuaw.html. Click on that link and then click on the PDF link and download and print up the PDF. AND focus all of your attention on eliminating love busters. The POJA can come later.

Do you have the book Lovebusters?

Let me explain why these 2 first steps are SO CRITICAL to your plan. They will create the greatest love bank deposits the fastest, which will motivate you both to go out on your dates. When you are passionately in love, you don't have to be prodded to find 15-20 hours per week; you will be refusing to miss your dates. You will be treating it as importantly as you do your jobs and won't be willing to cut corners.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by JBKT16
[


So we shouldn't implement the POJA yet? I think some of our biggest love busters are independent behaviors (which also lead to the angry outburst,etc.), on both sides, so I guess I assumed that the POJA could help us start avoiding love busters.

NO, don't try to use the POJA until you have eliminated love busters. The POJA will go much smoother when you a) you have eliminated love busters and b) you are in love.

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I have read every article and basically everything on the website. So I have learned about what they are, but have not read the actual book.

..

Order the book today. You need to have the book and go through the lessons in the back. I would also order the workbook because it has all of the worksheets and several good lessons in it.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Also, tell me again when you are speaking to the Harleys? Are you getting help from them?

I do want help from them, but to be honest, I am a little nervous about this. I feel like I would be betraying him by talking to them behind his back, but I am pretty sure he wouldn't be on board with it. I don't want to backtrack now that he says he is willing to try.

Along these same lines....I honestly feel like I shouldn't be on here asking for help, but I am so desperate and am only wanting to help us. Would coming here be a violation to the POJA?

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by JBKT16
[


So we shouldn't implement the POJA yet? I think some of our biggest love busters are independent behaviors (which also lead to the angry outburst,etc.), on both sides, so I guess I assumed that the POJA could help us start avoiding love busters.

NO, don't try to use the POJA until you have eliminated love busters. The POJA will go much smoother when you a) you have eliminated love busters and b) you are in love.

Quote
I have read every article and basically everything on the website. So I have learned about what they are, but have not read the actual book.

..

Order the book today. You need to have the book and go through the lessons in the back. I would also order the workbook because it has all of the worksheets and several good lessons in it.

Ok, I will do that. Can we begin practicing the ideas of the POJA? This is what we did last night, and it really seemed to work. How do you know when the time is right to implement it? I was also thinking it could help alleviate some of his insecurities.

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Is the workbook you are referring to the "5 steps to..."?

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I've found that in any job that involves managing people, it is easy to let the time devoted to work activities to get out of hand. There are 7 days in a week, 168 hours. UA only takes 10%. If you spent 4 evenings a week out on those 4 hour dates, that leaves 3 other evenings for other activities. Plus there is time on the weekend days for most people.

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