Maybe I am just extra tired and cranky tonight. I'll admit I had a rough day.<p>But this has been bothering me more and more for awhile now, so I know its not just my attitude tonight.<p>It seems to me that there are a small number of posters who are mostly BSes, who are veterans to this whole affair mess. They are in fairly stable recovery. They consistently post a pretty good MB message.<p>Then there is a huge number of BSes who are new to the affair. They are in pain, dealing with active infidelity and its heartwrenching to see.<p>BUT more and more, I see these very same BSes just flat out rejecting, disagreeing and arguing with the veterans in recovery. <p>What's the deal?<p>I've found myself multiple times wanting to say to posters - why don't you stop arguing and start listening to those who have been there and done that - do you want to be married or do you want to be right?<p>I haven't posted here much lately because I've taken a new job and I am extremely busy, but also because I don't see the point. Everything is simply flat out rejected anyway. I may not be posting, but I've seen enough other oldtimers who have got these principles down well also get completely ignored.<p>It seems like MB has become one giant victimization whining party.<p>I now know why so many others old timers just faded away. Who wants to fight what seems to be a losing battle...not against infidelity, but against BSes who don't want to listen to those who've gone before and might have some insight and good advice?

Hi Hon,<p>Sorry you're so tired from the new job, but glad you have a new job!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hear you. I hope it helps to know that.<p>I've talked about this 'till I'm blue in the face. I go away, don't post awhile, try to come back and post; sometimes with success, sometimes told to shut up. <p>Yep, it's frustrating all right! And it's not just BS's either, it's WS's too... I sometimes just don't get it: it's MARRIAGE BUILDERS. Of COURSE we are trying to MARRIAGE BUILD using the concepts here, right?<p>:shrugging shoulders:<p>It sure is maddening, I know.

Well that was a topic when I started and is periodically brought up. Why? Because it is true. <p>Sometimes this board goes off on a pity party. Especially when so many come on at once. I know this happened when I started but there were many strong ones there to pull us back on course. <p>I too feel the strain. But some nice people did not give up on me. You 2 ladies rank high in that number. Despite my stubborness you had faith in me. right!??!?! <p>Now it is my turn to give back. I hope I am have a positive impact somewhere. Sometimes I wonder. <p>BR and NB, you two are wonderful. Your strengths are in different directions but have always proven to be the right medicine at the right time. Whether you realize it or not you are helping the many who are lurking. The silent majority. H2Y said that there are many out there and one of his threads brought out a few. That was a good thing. <p>So in the long run though it is discouraging and we do have our own lives to lead, we come back and post. <p>I have called on both of you several times over the past year. You have both come through for me and others in flying colors. <p>So for those of us who don't show our gratitude enough......<p>Mahalo all you MB supporters that try to put some sense back into our lives. It is my hope that some of the wax falls out of our ears and eyes so that we do not MISS out on the valuable support given here. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

BR
It took me a long time before I would even post here to others, I would start a thread, but not post on others as I didn't think that I had the experience needed to offer advice, I left that to the experts (oldtimers). I respected the advice given my those experts!<p>My point is that I don't feel that there is much respect given to MB principals and those that have worked them. Everyone seems to want to jump in with their 2 cents worth, which isn't worth much sometimes when it is not coming from MB principals. Perhaps instead of jumping in with their own 2 cents (making themselves feel good) they should wait for advice to be given from an expert that will follow the MB principals.<p>I am not saying for those un-experts to not post, I am saying think before you do, is what you are advising following the MB principals, if it is not perhaps you can let the person know that you feel the pain they have, that you are sorry for it and that you wish them the best. By doing so you are not giving un-MB advice you are giving support and that is so very important too.<p>Whenever I start a thread I pray that some of the experts will take notice and have some advice to share with me, I need that advice, I feel so very lost in all of this!! Thank you to all of the experts (oldtimers) for coming back to share advice and support to us that are still here and to those coming everyday. Some of us do appreciate the time you give so unselfishly!!<p>Thank you!!<p>God' Blessings,
Dawn [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hello BR, You know me well. I don't where I sit in your eyes but I can tell you that I greatly respect your posts. In fact, I look for them. I may have a very tough time putting into action and "DOING" but I truly believe in all that you say. Granted, it sometimes needs more hammering than it should but know that you've helped SO many people.<p>Please don't stop coming here...I need you. We need you.

I see this too. It's been discussed here many times.<p>In the past people seemed to understand that the purpose of this web site was to learn to use the MB principles in one's marriage. It is not a venting forum. Yes, there are times when people just need to vent. There are times when people need a shoulder to cry on. We can do that here. And yes we've had time when things have gotten really off base for a few days. But it should not be the main use of the board.<p>But lately there are actually posters saying that posting here has nothing to do with learning and using the MB concepts. The only reason that the Harleys have invested in this web site, and it is a huge investment, is to further their mission to help recover and build marriages using their concepts.<p>There are a few people whose posts are ALWAYS vents with no constructive MB'ing going on at all. I've gotten to the point that I avoid those posters. Seems that they are not interested in learning MB concepts.<p>I know that what helped STL and I when we first came here were the people who constantly brougth us back to the MB principles. There were (many of them are still here) the people who could teach both through their words and through example.<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

I think I've been in every category BR mentioned. I've whined, cried, raged, you name it, probably every vent imaginable. I've argued. I've disregarded good advice (only to discover later how sound it was [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ). I've been positive. I've been negative. I've tried to help and been disregarded myself. I've been frustrated when I think I CAN help and don't seem to be able to get through.<p>Ultimately what I have been is me. I think it is all part of the process. We learn as we go. We're all on a terrible journey. Very strenuous, very life-changing. We're all converging our lives at this place and time, and we'll interact in many ways while we're together, and we're on various places on the timeline. I think because of the situation we're all in, the intensity is turned way up, and everything gets magnified.<p>But I think mostly we're all trying to do the best we can, and I try to give everyone here that benefit of the doubt. I think we should do our best to work the MB program and to encourage each other to do that because that is the forum we are using. I know that's why I'm here--because I think the MB principles provide the best hope for success. I'm even starting to think of myself as MAYBE being in recovery or at least getting close. I know I have seen progress in myself AND my H that I never thought would happen.<p>I think it's just all part of the mix when so many different people are involved.

BR,<p>I understand the frustration. I'm also realizing that it's part of *my* crucible to feel so offended when people can't learn what I'm teaching them (yeah, I've been on a Schnarch kick lately.) Or, why they can't seem to learn from other wise people either, when stuff seems so obvious. <p>I used to feel that if I just found the right words or used the proper amount of empathy in a particular situation then I would see light bulbs turn on. Like daybreak, I was very paranoid about whether I was giving "proper" MB advice- I always thought long and carefully before responding. Many times I was unable to form a coherent reply- and didn't (after expending hours of thought). This was the process where *I* slowly learned MB.<p>I'm seeing people with registration dates of Jan, Feb, Mar '02 starting to say reasonable things, so there must be learning going on here in spite of what we think we're seeing! I'm realizing that it's a true circle-of-life thing happening before my eyes.<p>So... I don't worry about the board so much anymore. Stuff seems so inevitable. The pain, the frustration, the venting, and... the learning. It's almost magical. <p>The hard part is seeing where we have any personal influence... but it must be there.<p>I can say without any hesitation that all on this thread so far (BR, NB, Orchid, Daybreak, Terrified, Zorweb, and Conqueror) have said things that have made me think very deeply-- I wanted to say thank you. I'm certain that there are lots of others who feel the same way.<p>Jeffers

I'm in my whiney, angry, scared, please answer my questions, I HAVE to understand my H and why he does this stage. <p>It's a messy stage, most of the time I don't even reply back to those who post on my threads. I hear EVERY WORD that you guys say! Soaking it up like a sponge. Someday it will all come together and make total sense.<p>Thankyou,<p>Replaced

Well,
I have to say that just because some people refuse to absorb the concepts before they just start posting and ranting doesn't mean that we should (or would) give up trying to share the concepts--the reasons behind our MB-oriented advice.<p>Even S.Harley, in his recent post stated that this is NOT a public forum, but a MB forum where we should all have a basic knowledge of the concepts and be posting accordingly. *sigh*<p>Maybe if we just keep focused on the purpose, some will get it but we can't afford to be discouraged by those who don't. The ones who get it will be down the road and further along in their recovery plan and the ones who don't will be stuck in their pity rutt or withdrawal rutt or stubborn rutt or wherever. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>We who embrace the principles and endeavor to apply them to our marriages know what works for us and what didn't in the past! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] GO MBers! Keep on keeping on! <<<<BR>>>> HUGS & ENCOURAGEMENT TO YOU, MY MB SISTER! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

You know, I think Zorweb hit it on the head. It's not the newcomers in their "whiney" stage that bother me - its the growing number of people in the whiney stage that seem to be stuck.<p>Or maybe since I'm only reading a handful of threads at night, I'm managing only to hit the threads started and supported by people who not only ask for opinions about a topic, but argue with every sound poster.<p>I realize Jeffers that it's not my problem whether or not people learn or find solutions in what I have to tell them. That's not my issue really - I guess my real issue is the complete disrespect for the principles applied successfully in many marriages by those who haven't a foot to stand on, because their marriages haven't made it to recovery.<p>And I'm seeing people post totally "fogged" opinions, and no one responding, except those who agree.<p>Bleah, well, I'm off to work. I'll try to get uncrankified this weekend.

I just wanted to say that I am very thankful for most, if not all, of the responses that I have gotten here. Yes, I have had my whining, angry times. I post, venting all of that frustration. And the responses I get have always been a kick in the pants for me. Something to really get me back on track with the MB principles. <p>So, take heart all. There are those of us out here that do whine. But then we listen and learn. Thanks!

I am a new poster but have been lurking since October. I have been trying to read and absorb all the MB principles and apply them. I am so grateful for those veterans who have taken the time to post to me. Whenever I am unsure what to do next I re-read their advice. If I question someone I'm just trying to have a better understanding of what to do. Sometimes I receive conflicting advice which adds to the confusion as well.
Coming to these Boards have been my lifeline as my counselor and one friend are the only ones who know about this ugly mess. This week I am having a hard time since both my counselor and friend are away for the week and I have no one to talk to. I really have chosen to keep this to myself because I am a private person and if/when we reconcile I felt it would be easier. Anyway thank you all for your words of wisdom.

Hi all,<p>I wanted to let you know that I think you guys are awesome! The wisdom and care you provide is amazing. <p>I have to admit when I first came to MB I was a little overwhelmed. There just seem to be so much to process and I kept seeing the same advise over and over. I was a little skeptical. But it didn't take long to realize how great the advise is and how smart you guys are. No one knows better than those who have been through it and this has come through loud and clear.<p>I am amazed at how you don't give up. The patience you show is incredible.<p>Just wanted to say thank you and let you know you're very much appreciated (and admired) by all us newbies.<p>Keep up the good work! Hopefully, one day, I'll be able to help as well. But I don't know if I'll ever be as patient.<p>H&S

As a new guy on here, I just wanted to thank you for all your input.<p>Of course, it must be frustrating for the "old timers" to see their wisdom diluted by £0.02 advice. But please - keep it up, nevertheless. It was (and will be) valuable to me, and surely others too.

Any oldtimer that wants to post and not be argued with, go post on my thread, WH has Overwheliming Anger for OP. Believe me, I need insight from all on this one!!<p>Let me add that by mentioning the reasoning behind some of the MB principles, some of the logic, that some posters might see how and why that principle would work. When just the principle is stated, posters (especially those so hurt or in a fog) may not see how in the ____ that principle can help them in their life.

BR---<p>You are right, of course, but just like all of life, we just have to learn some things ourselves...*BIG SIGH*...<p>Those of us who have been here a while can only offer the world of our experience as we know it... <p>It really is our own $0.02...<p>E

Elad said: "You are right, of course, but just like all of life, we just have to learn some things ourselves...*BIG SIGH*...”<p>This is so right. Most of us have to go in circles for a while before we learn and the concepts sink in. Then it takes time to adjust our actions to our new knowledge. When I see this going on it does not bother me, I think it’s wonderful. This is a journey more then a destination.<p>I am concerned about those who actually come out and say they do not want to hear about the MB concepts and/or they do not want to read the material. If they are not interested in the Harely’s version of marriage building (MB), then this is simply not the forum for them.

I would never have made it this far without the sound advise and guidence from the experienced MB's. If I have failed to be appreciative or grateful - I appologize. <p>When I post I pray you guys are the ones who will answer, and you always have. Please don't stop. I have only made it this far because of MB. <p>Thank you.

I don't know where I'd be without this place. I know that I'm still in the "whiny" stage and need to vent sometimes. I don't have anyone else to vent to, so I really appreciate the opportunity to let it all out.<p>I am struggling on a daily basis to follow MB principals instead of my illogical, emotional reactions. It's very hard, but I can see it helping already and I appreciate you "old-timers" who are helping me. If I hadn't found this place, I probably would have LB'd my H out of the house already by now. Again, I don't know where I'd be without you... Thanks.