Thanks Espoir I do appreciate your comments and vote of confidence in the way I am handling myself. I expect that when it comes down to it H will give me a reasonable amount- it wouldn't be set by the court if we dv unless we couldn't agree and even then The Child Support Agency can change amounts paid. they work to a formuila of 25% of H's net income- which hes not sure what it should be yet!. I calculate he should probably pay me approx twice what he does at the moment. wiil see what comes when he has been paid and what he will agree to.
Jante

Hi J,
espoir has some good advice. She is more blunt than I am but I think she has made some very good points.

I don't think T has experianced the full consequences of what he has done. Personally I hate for things to go to D before they experiance them. Often it turns their head. Logically, everything espoir said makes sense, and I can't dispute it. I still don't understand why I have had other feelings about your marriage. I have not about any other here at MB.

My belief is also that he should feel the results of what he has done, not as punishment, but as a natural result of his actions.

You made mention once that there was another person that you could possible have feelings for someday. I would advise you to seek D before spending time with him. As careful as you are, you are still human. If this person is someone you met at one of the DB'r meetings, I would be even more careful. Not that I think they would be a bad person, but - well, you would know the reasons as well as any of us, having read here for close to a year.

Have you ever asked T what kind of timetable he is on for D?
I know he has only mentioned it in general terms, but I wonderer if it is something you two have ever discussed?

I can give you a story about why people should experiance consenquences.
Spencer turned 16 last April. He had some failing grades in school and we told him he could not get a drivers license until he made them up. ( he had to take night classes to do that.) He said he was not going to do it, and resisted and complained about how bad we were for expecting him to "waste his evenings."
Among his peers, getting a DL is a big thing, so he has taken some teasing about it from his friends. We also offered to pay his first years car insurance if he would do some other things for us, but he declined to do any of it.

Last night he came to us and said he wanted to talk. He layed out a plan to make up his school work, and do all the other things we had asked of him. It is a very workable plan, and he did it all himself. He did the research on making up his classes, figured the cost, and earned the money for it all before comming to us. This is pretty good growth for him, and a lot of work, but he did it all. He said " I figured I had better get on with my life and I was just standing still, I didn't want to stay like this."

Without the consenqueces, he would not have done the work. It produced a great deal of growth in him. He is a smart boy, but needs to develop better work habits.

There are some areas in which T needs to develop better habits.

Are you still feeling cool, calm, and collected?
Things going well?

Hope they are.

SS

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS and thanks as always or your comments

Have you ever asked T what kind of timetable he is on for D?

In October T said he planned to dv me in February when we will have been separated for 2 years. In english law he couldn't file before- and even then it will only go through if I consent. Up until then its up to me to file for dv. The time when T mentioned it was when he said he felt it was 'only fair to me to set me free' and that was when I told him not to do it just for those reasons. I will have to wait and see. that said I am oing to see my Pastor and wife tomorrow evening to discuss my place in the church and my rel with T.

I don't think T has experianced the full consequences of what he has done. Personally I hate for things to go to D before they experiance them. Often it turns their head. Logically, everything espoir said makes sense, and I can't dispute it. I still don't understand why I have had other feelings about your marriage. I have not about any other here at MB.

I can see the value of him feeling the consequences of his actions- but at what cost to my children. To change the visiting plans , to bar him from the house when I am here etc will affect them and they have already been affecrted enough. Today I had to take es to the Drs again- he has had recurring sore throats on average one a month. He has been tested for any medical cause and non have been found, just he is susceptible to virus's. The dr surmised that the cause was mental stress and asked m if I knew of any cause. I explained about his dad leaving andthat S was not a big talker like his brothers. It seems this is his bodies reactions to what has happened. how can i do anything else that would cause my children stress and pain.

Jante

I can see why you have those feelings and they are noble ones.

how can i do anything else that would cause my children stress and pain.
I suppose the reason for B is that it often works, and if it does, much of the stress and pain go away. Espoir seems to feel that it wouldn't work anyway, and you must feel much the same or you would try it, I am sure. I believe you would try anything that you felt had a good chance.

J, continue to pray and follow your feelings, that's the way to go.

You didn't comment on how you were feeling, and I hope that means you are well, but from you it may mean you are not well but don't want sympathy. I'll extend it anyway. If you are down or not well, here's to doing better soon.

I remember that conversation with T ( as reported by you) and it made me feel sad for both of you then, still does now. I know your feelings and It would indeed take a miracle for things to work. If I were in your place and someone asked me " would you take him back if he called today and asked ? " I would probably answer," why would I want him back?"
That's why I agree that what Espoir says is very logical. I wish I had a better understanding of things.

Are you getting enough sleep these days?

SS

BTW, If D is like another D that I know, he will grow out of it and after he gets a little older, it won't bother him.

<small>[ January 14, 2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I don't think B will work for Jante- because 1) she doesn't feel comfortable with it and her ambivalence will show through 2)it's especially hard for her to implement because of the kids and the distance involved 3) too much time. I think it's most effective after a short Plan A- where you try to reassure and reconnect while "negotiating with WS to end the affair without LBs". Then if unsuccessful you go to a quick and brutal Plan B which will come to a shock to the WS.

Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens in February- when Jante's H will be free to initiate divorce. It's also going to be interesting to see what kind of numbers he comes up with for child support. Shouldn't be too hard to calculate- the formulas sound pretty straight forward.

Hi SS and Espoir and as always thanks for your help and comments

Are you getting enough sleep these days?

Yes plenty more sleep though I am still tired at times, but thats part of motherhood.

don't think B will work for Jante- because 1) she doesn't feel comfortable with it and her ambivalence will show through 2)it's especially hard for her to implement because of the kids and the distance involved 3) too much time. I think it's most effective after a short Plan A- where you try to reassure and reconnect while "negotiating with WS to end the affair without LBs". Then if unsuccessful you go to a quick and brutal Plan B which will come to a shock to the WS.

Yes Espoir I agree with your reasons. I also feel taht T has gone beyond caring what i do with my life. So I really almost hope that he does file in feb. Jante

Hi SS - as you have probably gathered over the last few weeks I have been gradually coming to the conclusion there was no hope for my m. I had planned a meeting with my Pastor and W last night to discuss the issues and gain counsel from them before proceeding. My YS got very upsey aty me going out and leaving him, so of course I cancelled and stayed in with sons. This left me feeling a little low so I prayed about my m and asked for Gods guidence. Last night I had 2 very vivd dreams- which have stayed with me through today. In the first i was grateful to someone and lkissed them ( not H) and they said " now can we tell people" at which i panicked and said no not yet. Woke up from this and with my mind full of house renovation plans had trouble returning to sleep. When I did I dreamt that I was at a bible camp and not enjoying myself. I seemed to be constantly losing the children and having to look for them. Then the scene switched, I was sat at same Buible camp in a caravan with an old Pastor of ours and T was sat next to me , to my surprise. We were asked what seminar we had each chosen and H said " Relationship restoration" to which i added so have I. Then i woke up!! Either God is speaking clearly to me about how to proceed , or my subconscious mind is telling me what I still really want. Either way i know how to proceed for the immediate future.

Jante

It sounds like your subconscious is telling you that you're not ready to give up yet (as symbolized by telling everyone) but you are missing male companionship and affection. You still hope your H will make the right choice and choose to restore the marriage.

Since you seem to be coping with the status quo, it sounds like you feel comfortable to let it go on longer in hopes that he will change his mind. Maybe this approach will work, you never know. H could realize in Feb that he doesn't want to file for divorce. Who knows?

Anyway, hope your renovation turns out great. Hey forget men, I'll take a new kitchen instead! (just joking).

Thanks Espoir for making me smile- the new kitchen will be great when it is in but at the moment its a logistical nightmare.

Jante

Just don't let my W read espoir's last one, she (my W) was asking about a kitchen. That's all I need.

espoir, you ought to give us an update, I haven't seen one from you in a while. Or did I nmiss it?

Hi SS - as you have probably gathered over the last few weeks I have been gradually coming to the conclusion there was no hope for my m.
Yes, and that's the advice you have been getting mostly too.

I had planned a meeting with my Pastor and W last night to discuss the issues and gain counsel from them before proceeding. My YS got very upsey aty me going out and leaving him, so of course I cancelled and stayed in with sons.
You go other places often, was this about something related to where you were going, or just something that happens occasionally, or did it happen because God wanted to speak to you first?

This left me feeling a little low so I prayed about my m and asked for Gods guidence.
I have been praying for you also. In the beginning, I prayed for your marriage to be restored. I always felt I needed to enocourage you in that. The last few months I have been confused, and I didn't know what to say because of your aparent change of heart. Lately, I have prayed for God to show you what to do, even if he had do send someone to speak with you. I have had a great deal of faith that you would do the right thing, if you only knew what that was.

Last night I had 2 very vivd dreams- which have stayed with me through today.
That alone is interresting, I usually forget them quickly after I wake up. ( don't know how it is for you. )

Either God is speaking clearly to me about how to proceed , or my subconscious mind is telling me what I still really want. Either way i know how to proceed for the immediate future.
I often wish I could know what God knows, but I don't. It is so hard to understand some things that happen in our lives, and still trust that he is in charge, and that we will come out ahead if we listen to him. When he doesn't answer as quickly as we want him to, we often want to go ahead on our own. I have a hard time with this in my own life, but am getting better at it.

I know you want to be loved, and have a companion and friend. God will take care of you if you do the best you can with what he has given you. I hope you trust him to do that. I suggest you write down your feelings of the last few days, to read again if you get confused later.

SS

Hi SS and thanks for posting. Have had a lovely 24 hours away with a good friend and feel very refreshed. She commented on how much happier I seemed these days. So things are noticably improved.
You go other places often, was this about something related to where you were going, or just something that happens occasionally, or did it happen because God wanted to speak to you first?

I don't go out and leave him with his brother very often in an evening but was planning to do so that evening. He had been at home during the day with his brother and although I had come home from work early to be with them I think that was why he didn't want me to go again. Hes fine again now.

I know you want to be loved, and have a companion and friend. God will take care of you if you do the best you can with what he has given you. I hope you trust him to do that. I suggest you write down your feelings of the last few days, to read again if you get confused later.

The strange thing is, if I had had those dreams a year ago I would have felt it was 'a word' to hold on for my marriage and would have been thrilled. This time its left me feeling that if God wants me to hold on for my M I'm not sure I want to!!! Really more confused on that matter than before. I spent half an hour with T this evening chatting and its like chatting to a distant aquaintence. I have to ask myself How much longer?!"

Jante

Hi J,
I don't have much time, so this will be a short comment.

The strange thing is, if I had had those dreams a year ago I would have felt it was 'a word' to hold on for my marriage and would have been thrilled. This time its left me feeling that if God wants me to hold on for my M I'm not sure I want to!!! Really more confused on that matter than before.
I know that, I have watched you for quite sometime. I am confused also. I have learned that God is never wrong. I know that your worry is still "what exactly does this mean."
I also feel much as you do, why would you want him back now? I don't understand it either.
Don't get off track and start having feelings for someone else before you get that D.

We really do have a "Father" up there looking out for us. He really will help. Have a little faith, wait a little longer. I wish I knew what else to say.

You have done really well these two years. You need to know that, and I believe your happiness now is a result of your growth.

I can't think of what to say except to tell you to continue to have faith, and pray. Don't think things have to be done on your timetable. His always works better in the end.

We could say a lot more about all this, and I would like to but I have to go. I have been thinking about it for days, before you made this last post. There is a lot more I would like to say but I don't know how much of it would be helpful.

I spent half an hour with T this evening chatting and its like chatting to a distant aquaintence. I have to ask myself How much longer?!"
I am not sure either, but remember that he is never wrong, and his goal is to see you happy. Trust him to make it work better than you could do on your own.

SS

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.

I also feel much as you do, why would you want him back now? I don't understand it either

Exactly, I look at him and am no longer attracted to him as I was, and find it harder and harder to know what to talk about, though we are still able to have chit chat together.

Don't get off track and start having feelings for someone else before you get that D.

I am being careful, just am aware that it is no longer a case of T or no one but that there are others out there who I could have a rel with. Nothing has happened or been said and I am only voicing a thought nothing more.

Trust him to make it work better than you could do on your own.

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.
??

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.

[ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hi and thanks SS for your thoughts.
Problems too many posts. Jante

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

I did that once myself. I kept trying post and it never went through, and finally it did all of them at once. Don't feel bad, I don't.

We need to have another long talk, I'll start writing the questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

At least, I'll try and explain some of the reasons for things I have posted to you over the last 6 or 8 months and see what your feelings are now. It may take me a while to get it done.

BTW, when I said trust him to make it work better than you could, I was speaking of God. I believe you probably understood, but I wanted to make sure.

SS

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>