<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

Wen: Can you say "Emotional rollercoaster"? That is where MOWL lives right now. I am sure he would like to get off, but some things take time. Does this excuse his actions? No, but what you said about baby steps is true, and not all of them are forward. In fact, the backwards ones tend to be the biggest, so you gotta keep piling up the forward steps to make progress. If the two of you succeed in reconciling, it will be the hardest thing you have ever done. It will also be worth it. Good luck and Godspeed.

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

I have no problem with paying for her therapy and I have attached zero strings to it. I said enough is enough when it came to paying her rent IF she moves out of the OM's house.

Considering just the weekend before last she was all huggy kissy with OM while she spent the weekend with him on vacation in Atlanta going to Six Flags (one of our favorite spots) and to the Rush concert she should be grateful I'm WILLING to do anything at all!

She's right across the street with the OM. Still in his bedroom. Still protecting him. His feelings seem to be more important to her than mine.

No she says she won't go to therapy and she won't take her meds.

I am supportive. How about giving me a little support? I'm the poor slob that got lied to, cheated on, publicly humilated, emotionally wiped out...

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

This coming from the person that just last month asked if my apartement offer (to pay all deposits and the first two months rent) was real because the OM locked her daughter out of his house on purpose because he couldn't wait 2 minutes for her to get home before he left to go play golf?

Wen comes home to her 14 year old D locked out of the house. Of course as usual Wen doesn't do anything about it and stays with the OM. Mind you this is the same weekend as her son's 13th birthday in which the OM spent either on the golf course or at the FSU football game. What did Wen's son get for his birthday from the OM or Wen? Nothing. Zero, zilch the big goose egg. Not a card, not a cake. Nothing.

Why should I expect anything to be different this time?

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

Wen,

I have been reading your posts here and I find yours and MOWL's post both encouraging and very discouraging. You are asking many things from MOWL that you yourself are not ready to give him and I think perhaps you need to consider this. He is no more grounded in this situation than you are, and has less reason to trust you than you do him. I do realize that you don't trust him, but look at the circumstances.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sick of this entire thing.
This site is mostly for BS. Not the WS.
I have taken it, listened to it and now I am sick of it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And your point is?? Seriously, you have gotten nothing but encouragement from 2L and others. You WILL get critizism here. BS's and WS's get it. 2L has been wacked up side the head with the proverbial 2x4 a few times. And if you stay here Wen, you will to. This is not a "make everyone feel happy support group" This place is about rebuilding marriage amid a lot of damage and there is no polite, PC, painfree way to do it.

The choice is truely yours. People will help, but they won't avoid saying things just because it might not be what you want to hear.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have stepped out on a limb and MOWL, you have snapped it off just to watch me fall. One step forward ten steps back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You haven't stepped too far, you are still with OM. You are still ostensibly in a relationship YOU wanted, in his house, and living with him. It seems you need to realize that MOWL is also out on a limb here. You two are now divorced, by your choice and he will need to take huge risks to himself to meet you even part way.

It is time for you to focus on him and at lease see where he is coming from. He will have to do the same.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are just gonna get further and further away from each other like this. This is not what I wanted. This is not what I need.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to realize that he isn't very sure of this and is still fighting within himself, hence the rollercoaster of emotions. He needs some things from you as well. By the way what is it you really want? Him to forget his pain? To put his life in your hands completely and trust that you won't crush him again? For him to give to you continually with little or no guarentee that you are not just taking him for a ride to get rid of both OM and him?

So realistic expections of where both of you are right now is required. Neither are very sure this will work. Both have a lot of pain and issues to get over, but at least you are still in the "safe" confines of OM's life and house. Time for some deeper perspectives Wen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I need REAL support. Not someone who is just toying with me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I doubt seriously that he is toying with you. He is struggling within himself. Part of him (the part that is self preservation) is saying run don't let this woman hurt you again. Part of him (the part that still has love for you) is saying stay the course and see if she really does love you and can show it with actions not just words. THe war rages Wen and you are only seeing the tip of it. This isn't about you so much as it is about him dealing with his own demons.

This "roller coaster" is not normal.
[Frown][/quote]

Yes it is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have feelings too.

(Regardless of the mistakes I have made.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all know that and so does he. Just recall that he has feelings as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It takes a really big person to step up to the plate and admit their mistakes in front of all of these people.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it does. That is why the people here are trying to help as much as they can.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mowl, you havent forgiven me yet. That is more than obvious.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How could he Wen? You are still with OM, his exBestFriend. He is just starting down this road. THere is no way on God's Green Earth that his ready to forgive you for something you haven't stopped doing. That will take time. Of course the really big hurdle is you forgiving yourself and leading a life that you KNOW is right and good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We cant get anywhere until you do ....forgive me... and GOD wont forgive you, until you learn to forgive.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have this very wrong, Wen. You can get a long way before he forgives you. Indeed you must get a long way before he can forgive you or himself. Decisions must be made, actions must be performed, plans made and met, and finally words and actions must mesh for both of you before true forgiveness comes.

But, most of all you don't understand forgiveness very well. If he forgives you, it will be a gift he gives himself not you. Just as your fogiveness will be a gift you give yourself.

You two will have given up the "right to punish the other for their actions against you". It will easy YOUR mind and stop the conflicts within you when you forgive him. The same will be true for him.

Wen, if I could recommend one thing, it would be to reorder the way you look at things. If you can come to see things from his point of view you will come to realize that most of his actions are not about you, they are about him dealing with the ongoing A, the divorce, HIS lost dreams, HIS failings, and HIS weaknesses. When you can see that and acknowledge this to him, you will see that he is often isn't trying to hurt you, he is struggling within himself and you are projecting his struggles onto yourself, thus hurting yourself.

I hope that something I have said will be of help.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

Wen,

I am not defending him, I am talking to YOU.

I will never know the whole story, but what I do know is that "there is no pancake flat enough that it doesn't have two sides".

So I am talking to you about what YOU can do, IF you decide you want to reconsider the relationship. If you don't then, there is nothing anyone can do. You have a lot of control in this situation, so you get at least as much blame as he does. Deal with it.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks Just Learning. I was feeling very alone.

Wen,
I told you not to get mad when I wrote to you. I was telling you what was on my mind and that I was hurting really bad. All you said was you understood, but you didn't. Everything is the same as it was 4 months ago. You're using the therapy you finally started against me. Just as you use everything in your arsenal to get me to do what you want. I tried telling YOU what was on my mind instead of telling my GF. I didn't realise it at the time, but I expected you to support me somehow or do something to help. You provided me no incite. No information. When it comes down to the OM or me you protect him.

Where will you be tonight? At softball cheering the OM on and going to the bar with him and our mutual acquaintances afterwards. Hug and kiss on each other and make the rest of world think everything is going great with you and the OM, but tell me something different. If the roles were reversed would you even be thinking about having anything to do with me?

That's what I thought. I will continue to live my life. I will continue to work on myself. I will continue to pay for your therapy. When you SHOW me something then maybe we can try this again.

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

What in the world are you talking about? I didn't say I hate you. I didn't take anything back. I did not say you are a bad person.

Why are you deleting your posts? Do you not want everyone to see your posts? To see all of the things you say to me?

Sorry for not being able to sweep everything under the rug and get over it as you like to say.

I shall continue on with my life. I shall continue to improve myself for me.

The opportunity exists for you to continue therapy if YOU want it.

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>