SC,

After not hearing from you for a while, I am saddened to hear moving home has led you to this realization. However, at the same time, I'm happy for you that you've managed to make a decision for yourself that you feel is the right one. You have come to it in such an admirable way, working so hard to show your wife how much you love her, for such a long time, before finally coming to this point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> May we all stand firm in the knowledge and comfort that all things are now, have always been and forever will be, in Divine order, unfolding according to a Divine plan.

And may we truly surrender to this truth, whether we understand it or not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tell you, to an extent, this quote that you've posted to me a few times has become a bit of a mantra for me. Whenever I feel at a loss for what's going on around me, I repeat to myself "all things happen for a reason".

My thoughts and prayers are with you SC, you are a wonderful person who only deserves happiness!

Take care,

Jen

My dear, dear MB friends,
This is a positive step for me. Even though I take it with sadness in my heart, and the weight of it is still great, I know it is but one more step in the path of my life, and that path leads to riches beyond the material world.
I may have been absent from this venue, but I have not been absent from extending my hand and some comfort to others in other ways and in other venues, nor do I intend to stop doing so.
I do have many duties and the loss is still too close for me to feel I can give much right now, but I will not abandon this support group, nor will I abandon the joy and satisfaction of helping others through their difficulties.
The Space Story does not thus end...

You will never know the extent of the strength, hope, and faith you have all provided me, nor do my eyes remain dry when "hearing" your voices here. This is truly a remarkable community!

All my love,

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Hi Spacecase,

I don't know what to say except that I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

Btw, if I were in your W's shoes, I would want your post as a letter. I think it says it all--eloquently and succinctly.

I, too, hope that one day your W starts to understand all you have done throughout. I am sure your kids will benefit in their marital relationships from all that you have had the courage to teach them.

Take care Spacecase

Hi Space,

I am so so sorry to hear you coming to this decision. Now we won't mind if you change your mind, OK?

I know how hard it is, and it sounds like you are there, ready to file. As heartbreaking as it is, maybe this is the what is needed. ONLY YOU really know.

I too, am getting to a point of being very very tired of a not willing enough spouse to work on a marriage.

Funny how that rubberband principle works... as we draw away.. they come towards us. I see it some in my marriage, maybe it will work for you, but only because you aer ready to start going farther away.

A counselor told me this , this week. I am still so vulnerable to my spouse, and this is why he hurts me so. We have to start building boundaries so that we cannot be hurt. In a HEALTHY marriage, yes, vulnerabilty is part of the relationship.. but when your spouse takes advantage of your vulnerability to them in that intimate relationship, you must protect yourself, for you are being abuses emotionally, spiritually, intimately.. time and time again. I KNOW I AM. I let my H hurt me, over and over because I want what we had and don't know when it stopped... he stopped caring the way he promised to about me, b/c he decided I was hurting him too much.. perhaps I was in response to ways he was hurting me and vice versa... but I came to the wakeup call.. like you and have done so much to try to make this better.

I will say some prayers for you, know that.

I am so sorry, please continue to try down to the last minute.

Have you taken the course divorcecare at a local church? It is on a website divorcecare.com and is wonderful for help in the healing. I have gone and highly recc. , the website can give you locations near you offering it. They still encourage reconciliation if possible, even after a divorce, as that is what GOd wants in a marriage... up until any remarriage of a spouse.

Are you up for a lunch? I will try posting on another thread, would love one myself... if some of us can do it... I know we all kind of died down here in H town on that lately.

I am just sorry moving home has not been received with more open arms. It sounds as if your wife is still in her fantasy world. I am sure one day she will wake up. Right now would sure be good, right? Work on that rubberband principle and protect you.

I am also in a new Sunday School class doing the Boundaries book by TOwnend. I am so excited about this! Have you read it?

Anyway, up in the middle of night as my 4 yr. old had a fever, don't know if I can sleep more and still make it to work or not... but will go try now.

Hugs and Hope, even now.

Honey

Spacecase,

I am really sorry to hear your situation has come to this - I have been wondering so much about you these past few months.

I think I can understand how you could feel this way, although I am not in that place myself. My H and I have just spent nearly 3 months sleeping apart, and he just came back to our bed on Christmas Day. We have been "intimate" only once and it wasn't exactly something that I felt happy with, although he seems a lot happier.

The thing is, I couldn't go on much longer living in that kind of situation - it has also been 18 months for me since D-day no. 1, and with no talking yet at all with H about "us", about why this happened, about his other relationships, about whether or not anything is still going on over the internet, in short, about his "need" for independence and autonomy within what he calls a marriage, I am nearly done emotionally.

In my case, though, it is different - we are still trying to get joint counselling, which he is expressing a wish for, although he has yet to articulate any responsibility for the crisis in our marriage. This morning, again, we discussed another option for joint counselling and he said "I'm sure we'll find a solution". This is why I am still here emotionally with what I have left. If he were as unrepentant and unwilling to even try to look at things with me as your wife has been, then I feel I would be right where you are.

I am at work and can't type any more. Just know that I am sorry for your pain, but understand how you could reach this point. I truly admire you and I know that you have so much to offer someone someday when you feel ready. You deserve to be happy and cared for.

LIR

wage peace!!!

oaktown

To all of those living through these experiences, it seems like these words are worth thinking about. It certainly is how I am trying to approach this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We can't live the last year over again, but what we can do is take the
awareness that we gained from the results of doing it the way we did and
live today in 2003 with a greater awareness, with a better understanding,
and with more options and opportunities, because of what we know from our
previous experience.

If we see the outcome and use the awareness we gained to live differently
today, then we grow, we expand, we evolve and we can create what we want
in our lives. In this sense, there are no mistakes. All of Life is there
for our growth.

So the year-end clearance, or clearing the decks for us, is about
gathering up any worn out belief or negativity that is left from the
experiences we had and releasing it. Releasing it without judgment,
because judgment keeps the negativity tethered to us.

We release the old belief or the negativity and keep the new awareness we
acquired so we can grow, and the choice we make now is a more informed
one and gives us the opportunity to make a choice that serves us and the
life we want to create for ourselves.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

I guess it figures!
I just found out she's headed to Florida again...tomorrow!

Timing is everything, isn't it!?!?!?

(PS; I guess I should explain for those who don't know or remember: The OM "lives" in Florida...)

It's the choice she's made; part of a seemingly endless series of choices which clearly undercut any "words" she may have said to the contrary, (like not wanting a DV).
I guess I only have one question: why would someone who is clearly so "unhappy" with her marriage have such a hard time just saying it, getting it over with, and having the liberty of doing as she pleases without continuing to hurt those she loved, and without having to keep such a complex series of lies and secrets, which must SO complicate her life?

I guess if we had the answer to that we wouldn't need to be here...

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

OK, I am a little mad at her... a lot I mean.. Florida , again??? What is she getting from this semblance of a relationship with a man she can't really have. it is all fantasy and would never work if he was completely avialble.. it is long distance with some visits... woohoo. I am sorry space, she is in fantasy. It would never work. I don't know why she wants this fantasy with this man who does not measure up to what you are , and can never be. What is her deal? Problem?

I am so sorry.

I feel so much stronger than my spouse, as he is still out in lala... now there are sightings of the used to be h here and there at times... more sightings the more I withdraw.

I hope the best for you, either way, it will be fine.

Hugs, H

Florida??? Arrrgh

Howz about a black cloud and a hurricane specific to the destination?

Funny how their antics just secure our need to move forward.

take care Cadet.

L.

I'm so sorry Spacecase.

I guess you were right when you said that timing is everything--this time YOUR timing is a step ahead of hers, and I think this news won't be as hard on you as it would have been if you discovered this before now. But I'm still sorry that this is happening.

You have what it takes to do what is best at the best time to do it--you've been a great inspiration in that area among many other areas. I'm sure you will handle this in the best way at the best time too.

Who knows, maybe she is saying goodbye in person? Unlikely, and I'm so sorry. More likely (as OM is not "available" and to a foggy person the reason for that probably translates into "but when the timing is better etc, etc"), is that she doesn't want a divorce because it's much more comfortable this way than the other.

Again, I am so sorry Space--you deserve her undivided efforts and I sincerely believe that one day she is going to look back on this with more regret than she may be able to handle. And you know what? Even if you're remarried at that time, I think you will help her deal with her tardy regrets--cuz you're that kind of guy.

Your children are blessed to have you as their father Space, truly blessed.

Take care

Space,

I have one answer to your question. If she keeps things the way they are, she doesn't have to take responsibility for her actions. And she doesn't risk tearing your family apart because of her failure to take responsibility.

And she's cake-walking. Blessings to you Space. All I can do is shake my head and send peaceful thoughts your way! CSue

Sometimes you've just got to let those you love fall down and go boom ... because,until they do that ... they think they are immune to consequences.

Pepper

It's sad to see the person you've loved for so long almost single-mindedly bent on a path of destruction.
But I suppose that is the path she was meant to be on, and we know not for what reason or what experience her soul is seeking.

And, yes; regardless of where I'm at or what I'm doing, I know I will be there for her when she needs me, wakes up, de-fogs...whatever it's called by then. Perhaps not as a husband, but as a friend. Just as I did when I dropped her off at the airport this morning, gave her a kiss and a hug, and wished her a safe and happy journey.

<small>[ January 09, 2003, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Sometimes you've just got to let those you love fall down and go boom ... because,until they do that ... they think they are immune to consequences.

Pepper</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, Pep!
This is quite true, I'm sure. I guess the only thing that "worries" me about this is that the way my W has "structured" her 2nd life is such that none of the people in "our" life really know much about the A or the 2nd life, as she's lied to everyone and has been insisting for over a year that "it's over" and "it was nothing". (Her sister is CONVINCED, for instance, that when she went to the prison a year ago last December it WAS to end it, and that SHE DID!). So, in my "perverted" view of things she will have the "out" of saying SC is crazy, he divorced me for no reason, bla, bla, bla...which probably means she will have a fairly easy time of continuing in this "show" of hers that everything is ok...weird. She hasn't even left herself the path open to learning from this...she will easily continue in the illusion of blame and "victimhood". Until....who knows?

JL said some intersting things over on Persistent's thread in JFO:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What she needs to understand is that she is losing the marriage BECAUSE she is controlling and limiting herself. She has to decide if you are a man she can love, and proceed to allow that to happen, or she has to leave the marriage. She IS in control of this, and her choices, and her life.

It is time to really talk, and then really make a decision. You are willing, you have been willing, you have waited on her, but the waiting is over. She needs to address this issue of control, which I suspect is a lot like anger; a secondary feeling caused by underlying conflicts. The conflict? Her choice to do contradictory things: stay in the marriage and NOT love you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think these both apply perfectly to my W as well...

Hi S.C.!
Don't know if you know yet, but my WH has remarried, and hasn't signed the final decree yet. Is the the worst fog you've ever seen? He has created such a secret 2nd life, that although i know the address of his OW, he hasn't given it to me, has never mentioned OW to our 3 kids, and just is like another person. I know NOTHING of his new life, and in fact speak only to him through our atty.
Sorry about what's going on with you. It's hard to give up, but all the things you say about going on with our lives is so true....
God bless you. We will be so much stronger than before, I do believe.
KK

Space,

I thought of your wife too when I read JL's response on P's thread.

What concerns me for her (and I don't even know her) that it has to be destructive for her to be carrying out this deceit. At some level she knows exactly that she is being dishonest with herself. That to me is the ultimate betrayal.

I am glad she has you even if the time comes only as a friend to be there for her. I imagine the longer she waits - the harder she'll fall. Blessings, CSue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CSue:
<strong>Space,

I thought of your wife too when I read JL's response on P's thread.

What concerns me for her (and I don't even know her) that it has to be destructive for her to be carrying out this deceit. At some level she knows exactly that she is being dishonest with herself. That to me is the ultimate betrayal.

I am glad she has you even if the time comes only as a friend to be there for her. I imagine the longer she waits - the harder she'll fall. Blessings, CSue</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've just expressed one of my worst fears. It is, to a great extent, this very scary thought that has kept me going here for a while...

I'll hate to see the love of my life crash and burn like that. As will my children. A very scary thought.

Hi space -- I was wondering what was happening with your M and was chagrinned, but not surprised to read this thread.

I know exactly how you feel as my WH has somehow sheltered the true extent of his secret second life from almost everyone. I don't believe your WW really has faced the consequences of her actions and you deserve much more.

It's difficult to say why some WS finally have that moment of clarity about the extent of their mess and others do not.

I wish the best for you and have learned much from your postings over the past year (I can't believe it's been almost a year that I've been here). I miss the regular postings of you and 2long as they helped me so much.

SC:

The thing that scares me about your sitch, and your W going, yet again, to FL, is that the only real difference between our sitches is that I'm still having a "pretty good M" while contact continues. Thank goodness my W hasn't seen OM in over a year. But then, that's kind of like the fact that your W can't touch her OM even when she's visiting him. Not particularly comforting.

I continue to hope that the "progress" that I believe I've seen over the past 6 months or so in my sitch means that my W will choose to give up her OM on her own, without any "coersion" like plan B or DV. But my biggest fear is that what I'm often told is true - that the WS will always try to keep the OP in some capacity, either as a "friend" or covertly continuing the A by "going deeper underground." I think I would be able to tell if my W were going underground, because she couldn't "hide" her "divided affection" from me any more now that I'm aware of the past A. She IS trying to keep her OM as a "friend" still, though, even though I've repeated my "boundaries" several times since D-day. And as recently as a month ago, I said "no way, no how, because of the past 12 years. Choose, because I'm about to choose for you." It's possible she doesn't know I know she's in contact unless she tells me, which isn't quite true (I can sense it, and she certainly hasn't told me she's STOPPED).

Question, though. Now that you're determined what you have to do, why not, as Steppenwolf said: "Fire all of your guns at once and explode into space!" Meaning, have you revealed your sources of information about the nature of her R with OM? I seem to remember that you did just before your plan B, but is that true? And if it isn't, would it help get her to understand your next move? Or is that necessary? ...just thinking out loud, in case, in my sitch...