I have not posted since before Christmas, and for a very good reason. I have used this time to completely pull back from this whole situation and to assess what I am doing and where I am going. In the process, I inadvertently did an EXCELLENT Plan B on my wife for three of those weeks, and it seems that now things are changing. But let me update you all and then lets see what you think. If you look at my profile at the bottom, you will see and updated timeline on how things have gone.

First of all, my wife had asked me to have Christmas together (all of us) and for us to go to Kentucky to visit her family while over the holiday. But she made it VERY clear that it wasn't to work on the marriage, that things were still the same, but she wanted the kids to have a normal Christmas. I told her absolutely not! That I didn't want their hopes getting up by taking things back to normal, and then pull them back again. I said that they could have Christmas morning with me, and then she could have them Christmas afternoon and night. That resulted in a huge fight, with her basically saying she would not see them on Christmas, but instead work, and that she would take them on the 26th and 27th of December. All this happened around Dec 17th. The weekend before Christmas, I tried to call and come by several times to get a hold of wife because kids wanted to know what she wanted for Christmas. Could not reach her and found out she was not home from 20th through the evening of the 24th. And she didn't work either. I was livid because she says she hasn't seen much of the kids because of nursing school and having to work over the last 5 months, but then she takes a four day weekend to go who knows where and not spend that time with the kids. I know OM is in Florida at this time visiting his daughters at his ex-wife's house, so I know she isnt at his place. I do a little checking and find out OM flew her to Florida to meet him, his girls and his family. I found this out a day after she served me with the counter bill for divorce, alleging physical and emotional abuse over most of the marriage (again, I was livid because this is absolutely untrue and everyone that knows us knows that). So I immediately start the divorce process moving again by setting up the custody hearing for Jan 31st.

I had stopped pretty much all communication after that conversation on Dec 17th, except for dealing strictly with the kids. No emails, no calls, no letters. Plan B, for the first time, to perfection. This went on through the middle of January, when I started getting phone calls from her. The first one was 10 days ago, when she called me at work to say she was now working on herself, that she realizes that everything that has happened is her fault and that she knows me pulling away for so many years was a result of her problems. That she didn't want to be angry with me anymore, and wanted to get to the point where she could just go to my attorney and say "where do I sign?" I was non-committal in the conversation, pretty much just listening. Afterwards, I came to the conclusion that she is indeed over with this, that her and OM are now doing great since they have had almost a month without any Mortarman involved at all, that she visited his house, his kids and his family in Florida…that things truly are over. I tell her at end of conversation that it is good she is working on all of this and that I hope she succeeds. But since she deems this over with, that it is pointless for us to talk about any of this anymore and that I just don't want to talk anymore. Just let it go!

Well….a week later, I start getting phonecalls. In the beginning of the call, she would ask about the kids. But a minute into it, she would ask things like "What are you doing?" or "How are you?" Again, I pretty much stuck with one word answers of "nothing" or "fine" and got off the phone. Plan B still in effect, but in reality, I was already in Plan D (divorce) and was considering my life now without her. During this time, I met someone who I have now become friends with and she is someone that I definitely will want to get to know better once this divorce is over with. In the meantime, she is respecting my marriage and we just talk on the phone or email, talking about kids…stuff like that. Again, at this point guys and gals, I am over with the marriage. Done. Divorce filed and moving. Wife appears to be fully in OM grasp and moving on. So, my relationship with this gal, while still just a friendship, is one I would have never considered before deciding the marriage was over.

And then this past week happened. Over this time with my new friend, and with basically finally starting to get on with my life, I was getting stronger, I was finally eating and sleeping. I felt good. Even the kids seemed a lot better because Dad wasn't messed up anymore. And then…last weekend happened.

Wife, at 8pm Sunday night, shows up unexpectedly at my door after finishing her shift in the ER. I wanted to know what she needed. She just said she wanted to see the kids and say goodnight, so I let her in and I left them alone and I went into the kitchen. After about 10 minutes with them, I hear her tell the kids to go down into the basement because she wanted to talk to Daddy. She hadnt seen them in almost two weeks, spent 10 minutes with them, and now wanted to talk to me. I was geared up for a fight. As a matter of fact, she comes in the kitchen and starts a fight sort of by discussing some money she thinks she is sue, she wants some things out of my house, and she starts to take a couple of pictures of her and the kids off the fridge. I immediately put my foot down, tell her if she came here to berate me or to take stuff, she could leave. She said she wasn't leaving. I told her I would call the police, and she said go ahead. She then turned around and sat down at the kitchen table and began to talk. And we talked for over 4 hours, and over two bottles of wine. She did most of the talking. Now I know out there, I am in Plan B/D, so why am I talking. Well, it was what she was saying that made me sit there and just listen.

She started off by saying that she missed the four of us. I told her that I knew she missed the kids, but did she really miss me? She said yes. I asked her what was up, why she was saying all of this. She said she hadnt heard from me in almost 4 weeks, that she missed me, and she was prepared to even come over here tonight and have me go off on her, just so she could be around me. I was shocked, especially since she had just gone to Florida with OM and had just called me a week before to tell me that she was resigned to things ending and that she wanted to get over being angry at me. But I didn't chime in, I just continued to listen. Mostly because I had already decided that things were over with, I was pursuing a new life with new friends, and I really had nothing to say. So I just shut up and continued to listen.

Without posting a 4 hour conversation, here is the cliff notes. She said she misses me. That things are not what they appear in her life. That she has realized that her lack of self-esteem led her to push me away, and then led her to OM when I pushed her away. She said she is now trying to work on herself, trying to find out why this all happened. For the first time, I actually believe her. Anyway, while we were talking, I had to go to the bathroom. While I was there, she had been using my phone to check her messages at her apartment. While she did this, she checked my caller ID on the phone and noticed a bunch of calls from this friend I mentioned above. When I came back, she started questioning me. I told her she was just a friend and that I would never cross the line. That Has and is going thru many similar things as myself and we talk a lot. I then said that was all I was going to tell her, because it really wasn't any of her business. We continued to talk about what she was doing to try to figure out why she has done what she has done. Then at the end of the conversation, she asked "are you done with me?" I told her that I didn't know, that I was definitely done with this mess and was not going to continue in it one more minute. That with or without her, I was moving on with my life. She left a little while later, leaving me very puzzled and confused.

Well, the next morning, the phone calls begin again. She calls at 8am wanting to say good morning to the kids. Then 15 minutes later, she calls me on my cell phone as I head to work, wanting to tell me about the sunrise she was looking at as she was driving to work. Huh? What is going on here?

Anyway, she calls Tuesday night and wants to come by and see the kids on Wednesday after she gets out of school. I said no problem, but we had to go to church by 7pm. So, at 4pm yesterday, she calls me and asks me if I would rather bring the kids out to her place, since it is right near our church and have dinner there and then go to church. I thought about it, but agreed, even though I know that goes against the great Plan B I have been in. But I let the conversation happen Saturday night, and I was still curious on what she would be like a few days later…and why she wanted me to come over. So we went.

We were there for about an hour last night for dinner. The kids played and my wife talked a lot. She kept asking about my new friend. She talked of the fact that she starts with the counselor next week. She said I had to do whatever I had to do, but that she was now working on herself to really find out why she did what she did, so she never gets to this point again. She then floored me. She said that she knew that if she came back, that I would want to know that she came back because she wanted to be with me (not because things ended with OM or she wanted her family back) and she knew that I would need assurances that this would never happen again. She said that she does want me, but that until she can find out why she did what she did, she said "how can I honestly promise you it will never happen again?" She said if I wanted to continue to move on, that was okay but she had to take this time with the counselor and herself to find out why. She said that when she does, if she can then catch up to me on the road, then that is what she wants. Again, my jaw was on the floor! The weird thing is later that night and this morning, I had found emails from my MIL that were sent to me before I went over to my wife's apartment last night. And the basic theme was 1. Don't give up; 2. Wife has been talking A LOT with MIL and has stated she wants me and family back 3. Trip to Florida was an "eye opener" for wife and that she knows what and who OM really is 4. MIL believes OM never really had a chance…too many problems 5. That wife still loves me but must find out why she did this before she can ask me to accept her back…she wants to know that she will never do anything like this again.

Now, some observations people! First, the Harley principles work. If I had just used them over the last month the way they were intended, I might have gotten this result a lot longer ago. The Plan B I did for over three weeks was an incredible success, forcing me to not LB and at the same time, forcing OM to be his self and meet all of her needs. And he failed miserably. Even with a free trip to Florida. Secondly, I have been down this road before, so I am very wary of what is going on. But unlike past trips out of the fog, the one difference this time is that she is not asking for anything from me. Not to stop the paperwork right now. Not to spend time with her if I don't want to. Not to give her money. Not even to stop talking to my new friend. But in a way, she continued to hint that she wanted me to hold out a bit longer for her as she worked thru this. Thirdly, unlike the last 9 months, this is not easy now. I steeled myself to keep anyone out of my life so I could concentrate on my marriage. But this friend I have met over the last few weeks has been great, and is someone I definitely would love to see where things go after my divorce. But now what? Push the new friend away to hold onto maybe another failure by my wife? Stay with my last decision, pursue divorce, and continue to cultivate relationship with this friend? Remember, the last month, I decided I was done. DONE! But now I am confused. I am confused at God's timing here. And what is the right choice to make. The safe bet is to just keep going, go to custody hearing in two weeks (which will kill any possibility of reconciliation) and pursue my new relationship. But what does God want? What is the truth here? Is this the real deal, or just more fog talk? Do I string new friend along while I wait to find out? And if I do continue to cultivate that, it may pull me away from wife, just as she may finally have come out of the fog for good.

So, there it is guys and gals. I am at a crossroads with no clear cut answers. I am not sure even what I want. Everyone, including wife, asks me if I want her back. My answer is that I want this mess over with. Now! That is the only thing I know. Someone needs to tell me or show me what the right answer is here because in my gut, I feel for the first time that wife is finally headed home BUT my head says I would be a fool to give up what I am building for someone with the track record she has had on reconciliation.

So, let me have it. I am all ears.

Wow MM, your rollercoaster ride is pretty extreme. You know i've been following your story pretty much from the start - am I right by saying that the following cycle has been repeated maybe 5 times:
- you do plan A
- your WW knows she's 'got you' and remains with OM
- you getting pissed, pull back, do plan B / file for D / get angry
- your WW knows she risks losing you for good, talks to you/makes promises/raises your hopes/talks to your MIL, pastor etc etc
- you take it at face value, and revert to plan A
- goto 1

So, given your history and where you are OF COURSE there is room for optimism.... BUT how do you know that this time it's going to be different? That's the question I'd pose to your WW. Why will it be different this time? What will she do differently so this vicious cycle gets interrupted? [answer being of course - she has to stop seeing OM]

Regards
N

Finally, the prodigal son returns. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously, I'm glad that you came back since you had a lot of people here worried about you.

Now get ready to have your butt whipped by my virtual kangaroo hide bullwhip. Whether you beleive it or not, you are (at the very least) in the beginning stages of an EA with this new woman 'friend' of yours. Why do I say that? because you say that once your divorce is finalized, this woman friend of yours is somebody you want to get to know better. If this doesn't prove it, the end of your post does by asking us "Do I string new friend along while I wait to find out?(sounds more like you and her have crossed the line) And if I do continue to cultivate that, it may pull me away from wife, just as she may finally have come out of the fog for good." I'm sorry to say this, but you sound more and more a lot like your cake walking WW.

Mortarman I hope I'm dead wrong with my suspicions here (I really do) and that your friendship with this woman is strictly platonic because you are not ready to go from one relationship to another without (at least) a year or two before you are ready for another serious relationship.

Now as far as your WW is concerned, I would urge you to 'Don't beleive everything you hear and beleive only half of what you see'. Remember that words without actions to back them up are nothing more than lies.

I'm getting off because I just finished my graveyard shift and I am very tired and sleepy. I'll catch ya later.

Nick: Exactly right. That is my biggest fear, that this is just another turn around the ole rollercoaster. And I am not going to ride anymore. But I am not sure if I want to see what the answer is and wait for it. I am done with all of this. If that means the marriage is over, so be it. But, like I said, this appears different this time. MIL and I have never really gotten along, so her emails were a surprise and add to the validity of the changes that appear to be going on. MIL has asked me not to tell wife whe emailed me because this is the first time over the last 19 months that wife has started confiding in her. But MIL has come to conclusion that OM is out of there and that wife wants her life back...wants me back. But that she is not going to be pressured in returning right away. That she has to have time to sort out WHY she did this, so she can again promise me the world and mean it. So, I still dont know what to do. I was done with this all, and wanted to move on. Now, she might be showing up. but with her track record as you say, how do I know? and do I stop everything that is going on with my life (divorce, new friend, etc) to pursue my marriage again (see my answer to Coffeeman below).

Coffeeman: Okay, my butt is red and I guess I deserve it. You may have a point here but I want you to know that if true, then I wanted it to be true. I have been done with my marriage for the last 4 weeks. I have filed and am pursuing actively the divorce. I have tried to shut down all communications with my wife and get on with my life. And now this. What great timing on her part! I understand wanting to wait on a serious relationship for awhile and I agree. I have not really had a relationship with my wife since this all started 19 months ago, so I do already have water under the bridge. But I again would be proceeding with caution.

You may be right, and I am constantly assessing myself to see if I have crossed any lines. I wanted to finish out this divorce on a high note, with me being the one who did it all right, even to the end. An my friend does understand this. That is why it just remains talk on the phone and emails about kids, work, etc. But...there is that continued possibility I may want more when the divorce is over. And the divorce is proceeding. And now this. NOW...she shows me unlike any other time during this, that she is serious about getting her act straight and finding herself again. Now she is actively seeking solutions (reading books, going to counseling). Now. After I decided to move on. This sucks!

So I do not know what to do. I had already crossed that line of wanting to move on and considering a new life. And now my old life looks like it wants to revive itself in the 11th hour. And I dont know what to do. I do not want to go thru the rollercoaster Nick talks about above again, nor take my kids thru it again. But a week ago, I had a new plan for my life. And now, I have to put it on hold again? Maybe abandon it? For someone that has the track record she has in reconciliation? I just dont know what to do. I do love my wife. But what a difference 2 weeks make in my attitude towards my marriage. I am serious about wanting this mess over with and will accept losing my wife to have the mess over with. But again, what if this is real? I just dont know.

Have a good sleep coffeeman.

MM,

My suggestions are the following.

1. Continue with the custody hearing.

2. Remember you are married and should not be with other woman at this point and in the state you are in.

3. Steady as she goes. No changes, let everything continue on course.

Why these three suggestions? The custody hearings need to take place if the divorce is to go through, so they should continue. Your W knows about them. She knows the timing and the reason. If this is a showstopper for her, then you don't want to be married to her. It is really that simple. She knows who caused this mess, and she knows you are done with this mess. She needs to address her role in this mess and make her decisions. You cannot make them for her, so don't make any changes right now.

The good news is that you now know that there are woman out there when and if your divorce goes through. That should make you feel better about ending this marriage. However, your marriage hasn't ended and you need to remove this "friend" from your daily life right now. You should be honest with her. That you are married, that your W is making one final attempt to see what she wants, and that the divorce is still on track. But, until you do get divorced you need to keep "friend" at a distance. It is the right thing to do, and it gives "friend" the important information. Have faith if this "friend' Leaves there will be others when you can indeed be free to act on your feelings. So give "friend" the straight skinny on this and back off.

You have no real reason to change your course of action. So steady as it goes. Your W is the one with a timeline not you. Yours is set. Custody hearings, divorce hearings, and then divorce. Life is easy right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Not really but you have been left no choice. You pulled out of divorce once, you signed away your rights to basically clean her out during divorce, and you have done your best. So keep going and let her see what she wants to do with herself and with the marriage.

She will lose a lot, and she knows it, but she is right she does need to figure this out and only she can do this. So, keep doing what you are doing. There has been some signs of change and even some actions,but there are no promises and the kids don't need the up and down of this. Keep it steady so that she can predict what is going to happen and when and let her set her own time line.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

MM,

Wow, this post brings back a lot. Man, I know exactly how you feel concerning this friend of yours. It's going to be one of the hardest things for you to do...to give her up. I mean honestly, she made you feel whole again, alive, ready to take on the world in spite of the torment you had been living. This person is the reason you have the strength to move forward with your life, without the person you have loved all these years.

Yep, gonna be hard to give her up Mortar. But that is exactly what you need to do! Otherwise you will never know the what ifs concerning your wife. Not to mention how soon it would be after the end of your marriage if you and her(OW, which is what she is)got together.

I won't beat you up for having an EA. I know the strength you gained from it. But now you need to back up and see what your marriage is going to become. Divorce or Reconcillation? Assuming your wife has had an awakening, this is what you have fought for so long for. Will you now throw away the chance?

Come on Mortar. You now know you will be ok if the marriage ends. But it seems there is a good chance it will not.

Keep us posted.

jd

MM,

I've been following your story since November.

I just wanted to let you know that the same type of thing happened to me, but only in reverse. I was standing at the place that your wife now seems to be in.

For me, there was a final moment when I literally woke-up. It had been building for a while, but when the reality of wanting my family hit me - I knew it was time to come home. I envisioned the things that I was going to do to prove to my X how much I loved him. I knew exactly the way I was going to treat him from that day forward. I saw so clearly how ownderful our new life would be.

I wish this had a happy ending, but he chose to continue his new found "r". He walked away. Yes, he had every right to, and seems to be happy with his choice.

I am utterly devastated that I caused such complete damage and devastation to the lives that we shared.

The reason I'm sharong this is that YOU still have a chance to restore things. I found that once X had let go, it gave me the freedom to decide what it was I REALLY wanted. I think this is what is happening now in your life.

If your friend truly cares for you, then she will be willing to wait a few months if you need her to. If you don't allow this opportunity for your wife, will you always wonder what would have happened if you had just given her a month?

For me, A month would have been enough to show him how much I wanted to make it work.

JMHO.

MM: Remember what God told you on that road? Work on MM. Let God take care of your W. God HATES divorce. Hates. Hates. Hates. Please read the first post at this link: Testimonial from someone who is NOT a Christian.

If this "friend" is a true friend, she would want you to do EVERYTHING you can to save your marriage. Would you really want to marry someone who felt differently? Proverbs tells us that we should "guard our hearts". You are not doing that in regards to this woman.

I know you do not trust your W. With good reason. TMCM has good advice: Trust what you see, but only half of it. That is only reasonable. Be honest with her about this, though. If you can't be honest enough to acknowledge that rebuilding trust will be a major issue w/ you, there really is not much hope of ever fixing anything.

Don't let her back without a good recovery agreement. Re-read Coping with Infidelity: Part 2 How Should Affairs End? and Coping with Infidelity: Part 3 Restoring the Marital Relationship. If your W is trying to figure out why she had an affair, you might direct her here, or buy her a copy of SAA, if she wants one, or print out the different types of affairs found at Links. They are short.

Part of me thinks you should still be in Plan B, but officially, with a letter, to let her know what she needs to do for you to start working w/ her on rebuilding.

MM,

Glad to see you back. We were concerned about you. I agree with JL and think you should just keep on your path. Every time she lures you off, it is for naught; always only for her convenience. What she is doing is no different from any other time. If she is sincere, she will dump the OM and work on resuming your marriage. Not putting out new obstacles like she is "working on herself" or trying to "figure out" why she did it. She doesn't need to be apart to do that. That is just smoke.

And I fear it is smoke designed to get you to back off from your D and child custody proceedings. If she is really SINCERE, she will dump the OM and start working on this marriage. Please don't let her lure you off the path anymore and stick to your Plan B.

As much as I hate saying this, I too am leaning for you to continue with the divorce and custody hearings because she has played this game of saying she wants to come back and then going back to OM at least three times already. This I am afraid is because so far she has not had to pay the consequences for her actions. She says she 'misses you' but at the same time she says that she is not sure that she will not do it again. And on top of all this, she has shown very little desire to spend quality time with the children. For all these reasons, MM I would advise you to continue with the divorce.

Even if your divorce becomes finalized, it doesn't automatically mean that you and her can not (at some future time) get remarried IF she truly changes for the better.

I'm sorry MortarMan for the pessimistic assesment of your situation.

TMCM:

If you think about it, yours and the previous recommendations for MM to continue with proceedings isn't so much a negative assessment of his situation as it is a positive assessment of MM and his growing strengths.

MM, you've come a long way through a very difficult trial. You've got a rough road ahead of you still, but you must FEEL now, that you're going to make it, and be one happy man at the end of it.

Good for you, MM (but DO hang back a bit re this new friend, okay?).

Hey T-Zero.

As far as why I said negative assesment, it's because I know that MortarMan still has feelings of love for his WW which are coming out after her conversation with him. Deep down, he truly wishes that her words are true this time but his rational mind says to him 'No, this the same tired old ploy she uses to keep you wrapped around her little finger whenever her relationship with OM sours'. From my personal experience, the end of a M is like saying goodbye to a loved one who died and you are watching her being buried at the cemetary. No matter how correct and rational the reason for divorce is, it still hurts when it becomes finalized.

<small>[ January 17, 2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

TMCM:

I agree, actually. I know how much it must hurt MM to be in this position.

Hey, could you/would you email me? (address below).

-Qfwfq.

MM: I had forgotton how many times your W has played the Yo-Yo game w/ you. She doesn't actually need to find out why she had the affair in order to come back home (though her C MAY be telling her that - or maybe it is her idea - or maybe her excuse for the uncertainty she feels). She just needs to make a commitment to find out why so that she will never do it again, to you or anyone else. You get sucked out of Plan B too easily. Give her conditions for Plan A to resume, in a letter. Otherwise proceed as God leads. Despite my previous "Hates...", you have grounds, and God hates what she has done just as much as divorce, maybe more. Just don't move on until the marriage is past resuscitation (I know it is dead...but there is about a two-year window for resurrection for marriages. Sometimes longer.) Did you read that "Testimonial" link?

Mortarman,

Do not give up the other woman... After all you are just friends. Let your wife chase you. She was JEALOUS of the other woman. That is what happened..

Make her EARN her way back in now to see if she can show YOU any changes in her. Sorry it has to be that way, but it really is what works to get them back for good..

Check out the threads of the Wayward Spouses on here that want their Betrayed spouse back. Most all of the betrayed spouses have a "friend" and are saying they need time to think. A total reversal of the relationship dynamics.. The Wayward then goes through the same thing you did....... Remember how hard that was for you? It is the same for them.
Look at the facts... They tell the real truth..

You have seen the power of letting go and not NEEDING.. You still do not need her, please do not forget that....

Great job!!! Be smart!!!!Use your head and not your heart..

"Be happy just the way things are". Women are attracted to confident, happy men... Life is good eh?

I am probably going to get slammed for this view, but the thing I know for sure is it looks to me like that is what works the best. When they WANT to come back, it is so much easier than if they feel like they have to be there, but really don't want to.

Keep:

"I am probably going to get slammed for this view, but the thing I know for sure is it looks to me like that is what works the best. When they WANT to come back, it is so much easier than if they feel like they have to be there, but really don't want to."

Well, alrighty then!!! I get to be the first of many, I bet.

I don't think MM should let go of his "friend" either, just make sure he and she understand what's at stake here. It isn't a matter of playing a "jealousy" game with Mrs MM, it's taking a risk that this new, potentially wonderful person could end up just as hurt as MM is now if he does reconcile with his W.

Don't play games with peoples' hearts, okay?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am probably going to get slammed for this view, but the thing I know for sure is it looks to me like that is what works the best. When they WANT to come back, it is so much easier than if they feel like they have to be there, but really don't want to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nah! We're just going to bi***slap you around a little bit but not enough to cause you some serious bodily injuries. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I take issue in using another human being just to make the other WS jealous. Even if the WS is in persuit mode with the BS, what good is it to have the WS back ONLY for fear that s/he will lose the BS?. Fear only lasts for a short time anyway, and when the WS feels safe and secure that the BS will not move on, s/he returns to his/her unfaithful ways. In a strange way, this is what a lot of WS feel towards the BS when after so many years of not having their EN's not met by the BS, the BS all of a sudden wants to meet them but only because the WS is involved with an OP.

What does SEEM to have an impact on many WS's is when the BS no longer acts needy, tells them to have a good life, and starts moving on with his/her life. The BS no longer acts like the mosquito pestering the WS with reconciliation, and thus the WS is able to concentrate his/her attention towards the OP. And Guess what? The WS starts to see (maybe for the first time) that the OP has some ugly warts in his/her personality and the fascination with the OP starts to disintegrate until there is no love left for the OP. Now that the fog has ended, the WS starts to take steps towards the BS to establish a frienship that the WS hopes will grow and make the BS want to take him/her back in a committed relationship.

See that wasn't to painful, was it?

Hi Mortar,

Glad you're back.

Now. No married man should have a female friend. You may be done with your marriage but your marriage is not done with you. Until the divorce decree is final you are married. Regardless if you are done with the pursuit of reconcilliation that does not mean you are unmarried. Maybe because you are maintaining a low level of intimacy with your friend you feel justified but you are not. I know you have been through a terrible time and need to find happiness this friendship is only muddying the waters. You have done the very best you can here. No one would blame you for plan D but how can you honestly say with all that you have learned here that this friendship is for the best. I am sure this woman has good intentions as do you but that is not the point.

This rationale that you decided your marriage was over so you can now have a female friend just doesnt wash. I am sure when your wife was starting up with her OM she convinced herself that for her the marriage was over. Maybe it is over, almost over but not quite.

Here are the choices: either you are married working on reconcilliation, or your are married pursuing a divorce...in both scenarios YOU ARE MARRIED.

If your friend is valuable, worth knowing in the future, and respects your marriage situation as you say she does then she will understand that your friendship should be placed on hold because afterall married men do not have female friends.

You have been through so much, you have done so well, you deserve happiness but married people should act married until they are not regardless of what they have been through.

Beyond just the basic rules of marriage it is clear that you want to be done with the emotional nightmare this has all been but your wife is part of your blood. It is only natural to want a reprieve from this torment but she is so much a part of you four weeks of mental divorce is not going to help you break free of this cycle.

I am totally supportive of you and you and your family have been on my mind and in my prayers. Think things through. You know what's right.

continuing prayers

ayslyne

Hi Mortar,

Glad to see you back, was getting worried about you.

Now, you have received many good replies, so I will add my two cents worth.

You still have feeling for WW, otherwise, this would be a non-issue. I understand you don't want a repeat of prior circumstances, who does. Honestly, I think if you do not give this change in your wife, you will wonder someday down the road if you made a mistake.

I suggest you have total honesty with female friend. I also think you should right now, give your M a chance. Tell female friend that you need to do this. Tell her you have to know that you gave it every chance before you divorce. If she is as great as you say, she will understand and respect your marriage.

Thanks to everyone who responded here! I am going to try to answer all of you, especially where you deviate from everyone else's responses. Some of you posted several times, so I hope I don't miss anything. All of your responses have got me thinking again, and have even put me in a more confused state due to my feelings. But I will get to that at the end of this post.

JL: good to hear from you. You have always been the voice of reason, as have others here. Your three suggestions pretty much sum up what most are saying here (1. Continue with custody hearing; 2. Stop friendship with this woman; 3. Keep up what I am doing). I would like to address these three, and will more in depth later on in this post. The first, the custody hearing, is going through. I will not stop this, and that thought really hasn't entered my mind. As a matter of fact, it is the opposite and that what concerns me a little. But I will explain that in 2 & 3. I do know that the custody hearing will get nasty, so any gains that are going on will be wiped out in that courtroom. I have expressed that to my wife and told her that should we go in there, it may permanently damage anything going on right now. She says she understands, but must do this her way. So, okay…its her fault if we go thru this and it kills everything…but will still will leave the question of "what if" because of the timing of everything. The second thing, the friendship, I will address more below because that seems to be what everyone is concentrating on. The third, keep up what I am doing. Well, the funny thing is, I didn't start doing a good Plan B until I was really ready to leave the marriage behind. Then, as my wife said to me last week (see my original post on this thread), I just disappeared completely. I had no interest in calling her or even hearing from her. I had really wipe my hands of all of it. Started the divorce proceedings again right after the first of the year. You see, this friendship with this woman just started recently, and had no bearing on my decision to go. I believe it is actually a by-product of me finally getting on with my life, deciding to end the marriage, and then my possibilities for my new life opened up. So, keeping up what I am doing is fine as long as I am still wanting to leave. It is when I want to save the marriage, that I don't stick to the plan and LB. But see my update at the end of the post to see what I have done over the past several days in regards to my wife. Again, JL, thanks and as usual, you seem to be right on the money.

Idmac1: Well, you really began the assault on my relationship with this woman. Right now, it has only been a talking deal. She is going through her own divorce (being finalized now ) after her husband cheated on her. He has been gone for over a year, and she has really moved on with her life. We have discussed the fact that we have not finished our divorces, and have tried to make sure no lines have been crossed. The problem is that with what all of you have brought up here, lines may have already been crossed. See my response to Asylyne below to that. My major consideration now is this…Once I crossed that line of deciding the marriage was over 4 weeks ago, I began to move on. And now, just when I feel really strong (even before meeting this woman) and start looking forward to a new future, now I am being told to take myself back into the uncertainty of my wife, of what she is doing, and even if I can ever trust her again. I have held on, shut myself in my house for over 8 months, because I knew that once I crossed the line and decided things were over, the genie would be out of the bottle. My body literally cringes at the thought of having to go back into that pain. But again, let me expand on that in my post to Asylyne below.

Kily: I hope things are well with you because I have been following your situation. What happened to you is exactly what I was afraid of all along…that my wife would not wake up until it was too late. Of course, we are still married and it isnt too late that way. But as I stated above, I have let the genie out of the bottle and unlike before, I am not sure anymore that I want to go back into this, no matter how much I love my wife. If she had woke up (if she is indeed waking up now) just 4 weeks ago, I was still 100% committed to her. Now, I am not sure I want to even try. So, I know esxactly where you have been and my worst nightmare over the last year may now be coming true…my wife shows up finally and I am no longer there.

Johnh39: Well, let me address your several posts. Believe me, the ONLY reason right now I am even posting about this and am even wrestling with ANY possibility of considering another try with my wife is because of my relationship with God. That is the ONLY reason. I had even come to the conclusion, after my wife decided to spend the 4 days before Christmas with OM and his daughters in Florida rather than with our kids, that even my kids were better off if I moved on. So, what God wants is the only thing even holding me here right now and even considering any of this. When you talked about guarding my heart, I had done this all along, over the 19 months of the affair. It wasn't until I decided to move on in December that I then began to consider that someone else could come into my life in the future. And it wasn't until several weeks after that when this woman began talking to me. So, by the time I began talking to her, I had let my guard down because I have wanted to consider my new life and start looking at it with some positive outlook, especially as I go through the death of my marriage. I have talked with this woman at length about all of this and she is in agreement. We do not meet. We do not discuss relationship things, as in about us. I have actually told my wife pretty much everything we have talked about. But I have become aware that I still may have crossed the line here, as you will see below in my post to Asylyne. But John, please believe me, what God wants has been the motivating factor why I lasted this long and even pursued my wife through adultery. And it will be the only reason why I decide to come back. I am actively searching the Scriptures and am even going to see my pastor this weekend on all of these issues because I know I have been obedient over this affair, and I do not want to end up not doing so now. I did read that testimonial link. It was great and even sent to my wife to read.

Melody, it is the fear of this being smoke again that is causing me not to even want to consider this time. Ironically, if we make it through this, it will be that fear that will help us because before, I would run back to her when this happened. Now, I have no desire to really. And it is that Plan B style that is actually moving her, not this woman. Come to find out, back right after she went to Florida, she began to call her mom and express that she may have made a mistake. Her mom stated to me two days ago that when she went to Florida to meet his kids and his family, that it was an "eye opening experience" and that she has realized who this guy really is now. She also said that my wife has realized now that I have, and the counselors (Steve Harley for one) have been absolutely right and she has been in a fog. But more on that below. Believe me, I will not be lured back in this time. I have seen what my life could be like without her, and it isnt the disaster that I thought. Now, instead of having a reason to go, my wife needs to provide me with a reason to stay. And just talk about working on herself just isnt going to cut it.

Coffeeman, you had several posts. As usual, we agree and I am still continuing with the divorce. I just feel that the more that happens with that, the worse it will get because I know it will get ugly in there and that would be major LBs. I do know once I am divorced, I would NEVER consider my wife again. Once this is done, it is done. What has kept me in this has been my vows to God. If it werent for them, I would have left as soon as I found out about this mess. Once I am released from those vows, there is no reason to ever pursue a relationship with my wife.

T-zero: yeah, I am getting stronger…but that strength may actually be leading me away from my marriage. And yes, it is a very real consideration that I may hurt this woman in the end if I go back with my wife…that is my quandary right now because, before the events of the last week, that would have been a non-issue.

Keepmvn4wrd: While I see your point, my wife's movement, if true, started before I met this woman. It actually started after I pulled back completely. She came over this past Sunday night saying she missed me, that I hadnt contacted her in a month and she felt me pulling. It was then that she found out about my friend (read the original post above). There is no way I am going to use this woman to make my wife jealous (I don't think you were suggesting that…were you?). That would be using her, and I am not into that. Read what I say to Asylyne below as I expand upon this. But thanks again for the encouragement. You are right about being confident and I do finally feel like I am.

Asylyne: you have been here since I started posting. And the butt kicking you just gave me really through me for a tail spin. After reading all of these posts, and then yours, I spent last night asking myself some very pointed questions. Am I doing exactly as my wife did when she started the affair? Am I actually in an EA? Even though I am done with the marriage, you are right…the marriage isnt done with me until the paperwork is signed. I am still married to my wife. So, would I carry on a relationship such as I have with this woman if my wife and I were together and happy? Ultimately, is this what God wants? I would have never considered any type of relationship with any woman while I was married. But in my mind, I put the ball rolling with the divorce proceedings, as well as starting a church court to declare my marriage dead. But isnt that what my wife did…decided the marriage was over (but in her case didn't tell me at the time because I was in Bosnia) and started in a new relationship? Even though I have started the process, arent I just as guilty as her, even though I have been careful not to cross any overt lines? It is unbelievable to me that I could do so well listening to God thru all of this pain over the last year and a half, and then just when I was coming out of it and started to get on with my life, I go and start this relationship and screw up. Is that what I have done here? I am taking the weekend to think and pray on this because I have come too far not to do this right. And, from the conversations with this woman, I think she would agree with that also. My only question is this now…even if I back off this and tell her I have to concentrate on my marriage until the day it is over, arent the waters now poisoned? If my wife is trying to come back, but I still want to leave, could it be because I want to move on to maybe a relationship with this woman? Would I make less of an effort here than I would of or should of because of her influence? This is exactly the genie I didn't want out of the bottle. It was why I protected myself from other women over this deal. But now, I decided it was over…and maybe it isnt over. And now, I have changed the dynamics of what I want. What a mess!

Sue: good to hear from you! One thing my MIL said was that one big reason things are going wrong with OM and why my wife may finally be waking up is she has started her last semester of nursing school. She started this affair right after she started her first semester and it has been there the whole time. With the end of school near, she is finally looking toward the future, and her mom says she does not like what she sees. She doesn't like what the OM will provide, and she really doesn't like the fact of what she is losing. It has thrown her for a loop. On giving my marriage a chance, I am just not sure anymore. I made a decision 4 weeks ago, and have been steeling myself to set my new course. And now, I may be required to go back into this one more time, only to be fooled again. My body, my mind, my emotions right now, just don't want to feel that pain again. After 18 months of constant hell, I have had 4 weeks of reprieve and now I am being required to possibly go back into that hell again. I am not sure I have it in me now. Nut read below.

Now, an update….

I thank everyone for their posts and they have really got me thinking. My mess has changed, but it is still a mess. And a lot more complicated now. Ultimately, I want to do what God wants, because I know in the end that will be the best for me. But I am not sure that what is happening with my wife is real, and I am not sure I want to hang around anymore to find out. But, until I know, I have at least tried to make the effort the last few days.

Two nights ago, we had dinner (the whole family) at my wife's house. I dropped off a movie I had just watched, that she said she wanted to see (Unfaithful…I will review it below!). She said she would watch it Thursday after school, and then would come over to my place to spend time with me and the kids. Well, yesterday afternoon, I called to see what time she was actually going to show up, and she was at home crying. I asked what was the matter and she said she finishing watching that movie and she would have to call me back. Since I had already seen it, I knew how it would affect her. It was at this time that I decided to do something overt, that would be me breaking any semblance of Plan B and see her reaction. I grabbed the kids, we went and ordered Chinese food, and took it out to her place. Her face was puffy, and she was in sweats. She was VERY thankful that I had come out and brought the food, and the kids. We all ate together as we watched some kids movie. She and I sat on the otherside of the room, intially talking about kids stuff. And then she got into the movie. She said it was VERY upsetting. That it shows all the questions that are now going through her mind. She began to cry, and in typical fashion, I gave in. I went over and held her, stroking her hair as she continued to cry and talk. She talked about how the woman n the movie, once the affair started, would almost be in a constant panic when she was away from the OM. She said she really got an insight to me and what I have gone through as the BS as the camera angles and acting by the BS in the movie really showed the pain, desperation, and even love of a BS. We finished watching the kids movie together in silence, with me holding her and her stroking my arm. As me and the kids began to leave, she came up and held me and began crying again and thanked me for coming out. She said all she ever wanted was what we had tonight…all of us sitting together, eating, holding each other…living. Because of where I am at with the marriage and with her, I didn't LB like I had in the past here. Instead of pursuing that and wanting to talk more and maybe pressure her, I just told her that I agreed and we would talk more later. And then we left.

Guys and gals. I guess I did a good Plan A deal last night. But the issue with me now is not whether I can stand up and do this right, it is if I want to. Once I set this marriage down 4 weeks ago, things have really ytaken off in my life. But the most important thing, for the first time, the pain had been subsiding. I have dreamed of my wife being like she is now. But is it too late? Have I crossed that bridge? And if God wants me to stay anyway, do I have it in me to be obedient one more time and do what I may not want to do…stay in my marriage? I do love my wife still. But I do not want this pain anymore. And I may be willing to risk the fact that our marriage may be saved now, in order to protect myself from the possibility that this is a Trojan horse again.

Thoughts?

In His Arms.