Good steps......

Take it one day at a time.

How did you guys resolve her A issues? What happened there?

8 years ago she had a miscariage in which was very depressing to her. She was 12 weeks along and starting to get attached. I reacted by just shutting down, I was unsure what to think and I really had no attachment to the baby, I was very sad, but could not talk with my wife about it. She moved into another bedroom and started to shut me out. She had an affair with a much older man and I did not find out until it was over, she claims it an EA and no sex happened. We never really resolved why it happen and I believe that is why we are were we are today. I forgave her, but it still hurt, because I loved her so much. This why I understand the hurt she feels. This why I also can't understand why she can't forgive me. Please help me understand.

Ig-

I'm sorry that your life has been touched by such sadness.......I think that turning to a church person is a good move. Turning to GOD is an even better one......

I do think that you can relate to what your wife is feeling because you have been in her shoes.

Have you read all of the info on this site? Would you be willing to contact one of the Harley's?

I think that both of you have a LOT of pain that has been buried, and you both need to face it and stop running away. Shutting off is not the answer and neither is an A. The fact that you are posting here shows me that you've made a step in a new direction....that in itself is a really good thing.

Have you shown her this post? I think that your being a BS then a WS puts you in a unique position. There are others here that can give better advice than me, but I just think you and she need to sit down and simply communicate.

Have you considered the EN questionnaire?

Thanks Kily,
I just got back from seeing the Paster, he was great, he gave me some ideas and I set up to talk to him again. Thanks for all your help. I feel good today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lghoping:
<strong>I need help understanding why she really does not want a divorce, but feels it is her only option? Why can she not tell me she is 100% done with me and never sees us back together? Why does she feel divorce is her only option. I understand the pain I caused and know she feels very betrayed, but why can she not close the door completely or give me a crumb. I'm very confused and need some insight please. It would really be nice to hear from a S that is in the same shoes as my wife. Thanks for your help.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You asked for an opinion from someone who's in the same shoes. And right now, I think I'm probably as close to being in her shoes as anyone here.

You talked about a miscarriage being the beginning of a distancing between you. I didn't miscarry. Our youngest son was born with VCFS, ten years ago. It's caused by what they call a micro-deletion on a particular chomosome. But we didn't know that for 14 months. In the meantime, I got to go through all the normal questions -- everything from did you drink or smoke to did you take cold medicine during your pregnancy. The implication over and over and over during this process is that I did something to cause this. There's no explaining to you how much guilt is involved in this.

So while I didn't lose a pregnancy, I think I can understand some of the pressures on your wife from that time, and my H has pinpointed that time as something of the beginning of the end for us. I didn't turn to him for support. I turned the guilt and rage and pain inward.

Now, fast forward a few years, and you can add in a very short EA on my part, which he didn't know about until I told him last year.

The point of telling you that is that I, and probably your wife, know all too well just how an innocent friendship can turn into something that's really not innocent at all.

I don't know your wife or the circumstances of her EA, but from my POV, there comes a point when you understand that it's not innocent, and the real test of character is what you do then. That's when what you start doing takes on a different tone. It's easy to find yourself in a position where your EN are being met by someone else. It's easy to find your feelings for that person changing. It's easy to be swept along by those emotions, but at some point, you know that what you're doing is wrong, and that's a pretty critical point.

Like I said, I don't know what your wife did when she got that wake up call, but her ability to understand and forgive what you've done in your own A is probably dependant on what lines she crossed or was willing to cross during her own EA.

So. That brings us up to last year.

I don't know when you started your A. You say she filed for divorce in April. I suspected that my H was having an A (EA or PA) that same month. I had proof of an EA in May, and I confronted him with it early in that month. So just the highlights here because we don't have time for the detailed run through.

May -- active EA, multiple lies and deceits. Normal EA activity. But this was that point I mentioned above. The one where you know what you're doing is wrong. Here's where the actions start to really count against you.

I can go through every single month from May to Jan. and list multiple occasions where he lied to to me or led me to believe that he was living up to his promises to me. I can point to the creation of at least 3 email addresses that he's used or intended to use to continue contact. I can point to use of work phones and almost certainly phone cards for when he was out of town. He stopped using our cell phone for contact when he gave me the original promise of NC, but he kept her phone # and that of some of her family members on it, so he could use it to look up the numbers quick.

I got that original NC promise in August, when I made it clear that for reasons of my own health and sanity, I had to get out of this triangle he had going. You have to understand, lg, this (from the BS standpoint) will make you nuts. You can't live on this kind of adrenaline forever, and when the situation just goes on and on, with no real end in sight, and the lies and deceits and revelations just keep hitting you, you have to get out.

We had confrontations in Aug, where he offered up NC. Oct, where he actually wrote a NC letter after being caught with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar. Nov, where another problem we were having came to a head, and the OW came into the discussion. And finally, the end of Jan, when I found out that a week after making the original promise of NC, he had created another email address to keep in contact with her.

It confirmed that within a few weeks of writing that NC letter, he was talking to her on the phone from work and using that email address. It confirmed that the only change he intended to make was to make sure he never accessed that account from home, where I might find evidence of it on our computer. It confirmed that they were still in contact as late as the first part of Dec., and that he was lying to me when he denied having any contact with her at all in Nov. It also confirmed something else. It confirmed that if, and that's a big if given the recent past, they really haven't had any contact since Dec, it's not because he came to any sort of decision that what he was doing was wrong or detrimental to our marriage or because it was important to him in any way to preserve our marriage. It's because she just stopped answering his emails. Their EA has apparently died a "natural" death.

Unfortunately, given the length of it, the multiple lies and deceits, and the repeatedly hurtful evidence that their relationship was worth destroying our marriage just so he could maintain that contact while staying with me and keeping up the lies of appearance of NC, I can no longer find even the slightest hope that we're going to survive longterm.

I don't trust him. I don't think there's any chance that that will change in the next year, or two, or ten. But I still love him, and I was rooting for him. I wanted him to be worthy of my trust. I wanted him to be worthy of my love. I did my part. I fought for it. I plan A'd through some seriously bad stuff from him. I tried to explain to him what his actions were doing to me and to us. But in the end, he had to actually do it.

He didn't, and neither did you.

You asked for some insight from someone who was in her shoes. I think I am, or as close to it as you can get.

You wanted to know why she felt like she had no choice but to file for divorce? She loves you, but you're dangerous to her. You hurt her, and you keep hurting her while swearing that you won't and aren't. Infidelity doesn't leave bruises or break bones, but it's just as abusive. If you were hitting her, instead of lying and cheating on her, you'd completely understand her need to protect herself. She wanted you to win, lg, and all you needed to do was be completely honest with her and work with her to keep her.

You asked why she can't either just close the door completely or give you a crumb. My H and I have been married for 17 years. Sitting next to this monitor is a clipboard with a series of divorce planning worksheets clipped to it, I've spent the last 9 months trying to save my marriage, and now I'm making plans to end it.

I love him. I wanted to get through this more than anything, but it's not happening. He says divorce is not an option, but I'm now more scared that he'll convince me to stay than I am to leave.
And yet. I still want him to win. I'm just afraid that now, given the continued history of deceit, that his winning means I'll end up losing, not winning with him.

What can I do?

So I make plans to file for a divorce I don't want, to end my 17 year marriage to a man I love but can't afford to trust. Sounds like she's in the same boat.

Mere

Mere,
Thanks so much for the insight, I have not had contact with the OW since Jan 5th and I have not been at home the whole time. I have no intention to go back to that and never will. I LOVE MY Wife and hope she can find a way to stay with me. I'm going to ask her tonight if she can hold off for one more month while we go see the paster I talked to today. He seemed very sincere and honest, probably better then any other person I have spoke to. Let me ask you one question? If you could see his every move and no he would never hurt you again, would you give him time?

lg, you want someone to tell you what you can do to fix this, and I'm pretty sure that person isn't me. I don't know if there is a fix. In my own situation, I can tell you the activities that have led to this point don't give me a lot of hope for one.

You say things like: "I have not had contact with the OW since Jan 5th" and that cynical part of my brain that has listened to such protestations from my own H more than once when it turned out to be a lie starts screaming.

You see, the problem with lying about this stuff is that even when you tell the truth, it sounds like a lie and how is the BS to know when you're being honest and when you're not?

The only thing you can do is be completely and totally honest at all times with your W. Is she going to believe you? No. But that's not your problem. Don't hedge. Don't obfuscate. Don't try to make light of what you've done in any way. Take the responsibility for it. You did it, and she knows that. You are not protecting her by hiding things or trying to make them sound "better" than they really were.

You said in another post that you tell her you love her and buy her flowers and what have you in order to convince her not to go ahead with the divorce. Let me tell you, my H can be a wonderful guy. He's affectionate, caring, says he loves me. He buys gifts, holds my hand, cuddles on the bed with me to watch TV. He tries to meet other needs of mine. He's certainly not stingy with communication, even if he seems totally incapable of dealing openly with me about anything of consequence.

The point is, all the "I love yous" or gifts or affectionate gestures in the world won't make up for the betrayal of someone who can do all those things and while he's doing them still go behind her back to continue contact with an OW. In fact, it makes it worse. I would far rather my husband never say "I love you" to me again, than have him saying it to me and her, or saying it to me while deliberately betraying my trust, letting me believe he's serious about NC.

Back toward the end of Oct, I let it be known that I was looking for a certain type of perfume. I wasn't hinting or anything. I just wanted a bottle and intended to buy it for myself and happened to mention this. My H immediately said he'd buy me some for Christmas. I found out last week that the day before this incident, he'd talked to OW on the phone and by email. This was after his promise of NC and the NC letter that he wrote to appease me the last time I'd caught him. He told her how nice it was to talk to her that morning. He assured her that she could email him at that account because he only accessed it at work, so there was no way for me to hack it from the house. And then, he added a PS at the bottom: "Think about you all the time"

It's funny how knowing that, having that association between my gift from him and his betrayal of me has ruined my ability to wear that perfume, and it's been a favorite of mine for years.

Anyway. I don't know why I just told you that, except to say that there were so many things he could have given me for Christmas or our anniversary, which was last month before I found out about this on my own, that could have fixed things for us. He could have given me the gift of his honesty -- the gift of complete and total openness. He could have once and for all, ended things with OW of his own volition and done it right. He could have confessed to having this account, let me know what he'd done without me finding out on my own. Would I have been angry? Yes. Would I have been hurt? You'd better believe it. Would I have gotten over it? Probably. In time. Especially if he learned the lesson of radical honesty and actually applied it. But he was so certain I'd never find that account, and it only took one, tiny slip on his part to make me suspicious and less than 5 minutes to find myself looking at its contents and shaking uncontrollably. I hope it was worth it to him to have that account for those 5 months. I hope whatever he got from OW and the emails he had going to it was worth this to him, because it's likely to be the end of our marriage.

You asked: "If you could see his every move and no he would never hurt you again, would you give him time?"

I accuse my H of asking the difficult questions, but there should be some sort of award for that one. Pray tell, how would I obtain this magical, omniscient power? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I can't know that. I can't know that he won't do it again, when he has been so very consistent in the past. And because I can't know, I can't even contemplate the 2nd part of that question.

Tell me something, lg. I'm not trying to be mean here. I'd really like an answer. I want to understand a few things myself, and since our situations share a number of similarities, you're on the hot spot.

What makes this time different for you? What makes you think that after all those months of deceiving her and lying to her, you're really done and ready to do whatever it takes to recover your relationship with your W? Why this time and not the last time (or if you're anything like my H) the time before that, or the time before that?

What was it that made you wait until you'd destroyed every last bit of hope in that woman before you finally realized you didn't want to lose her?

Mere

Mere,
You asked these questions and I will answer them with the honesty and fear.

"What makes this time different for you? What makes you think that after all those months of deceiving her and lying to her, you're really done and ready to do whatever it takes to recover your relationship with your W? Why this time and not the last time (or if you're anything like my H) the time before that, or the time before that?

What was it that made you wait until you'd destroyed every last bit of hope in that woman before you finally realized you didn't want to lose her?"

First, GOD. He knows exactly what is true and not, I started going to church two weeks ago and this something I had not done in 16 years. I read a book about marriage and scripture and it really hit home to me. I will never lie in GODS house. The second thing is my wife said something to me the other day that really drove home her feelings towards me. She stated that the main reason she married me was because of my loyalty to her. That was huge to me and I don't want to loose a person that feels that way towards me. I also have a friend in which I asked what keeps him honest and he said he just remembers his wedding vows and stays honest to them. Now I understand that my wife may never believe me and that it will take alot of time and energy on my part, but one must walk before they can run and if each day I can wake up and tell myself that I'm glad to be alive and know that if I make it back home, I will be coming home to a woman that choose to be with me, that would be the most wonderful thing in the world.

I have prepared myself for the worst, but hope for the best.

Be 100% honest not just to my wife but to everyone. That is my goal, I made a huge mistake in my life and it ruined the lives of 3 other people (my wife and my two daughters) the hill is there to climb and I hope and pray my wife will climb it with me.

Thanks for the insight.

LG

IG-

Just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you...

It sounds like your making some "SMART" choices.....stay the course.

Kily,
You have been a great help, I thank you for that. My wife called me last night and said she would hold off until she goes to my concelor by herself and to the Paster at the church with me. She asked allot of questions last night about the A and why I did it and how this time is different, all I could do is answer the questions honestly and with a open heart. Thanks for all your help YOU ROCK.

Ig-

Your foot is in the DOOR! Keep it THERE..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It could still go very badly, but it sounds like she's at least willing to explore.

I will not let the foot leave the door, know matter how hard it is pressed on. I realize there will be up and down days, today is an up day, that fact that I'm living at my parents is assurance to her that I'm not out or with someone, actions are louder then words.

lg, I know it may not have sounded like it in my previous posts, but I do wish you luck.

Mere

Mere,
Thanks, I feel positive today, even though I had only a brief conversation with her last night. It feels really strange that I have not seen her since the 12th of Jan. fI really miss her and I hope and pray she find the one thing that she needs to allow me back into her heart. She did make a commet the other day that it would be a much easier if I was dead. I really did not know how to take that. I guess the fact that we have the two girls is working for me, since she will have to see me on a regular basis. Keep me in your prayers.

IG-

This one is EASY!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She did make a commet the other day that it would be a much easier if I was dead. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was VERY close to what X said to me when I wanted to try and he didn't. His words were, I just wish you would disappear.....

She's telling you that she wishes you were gone so she could just forget it all. She has mourned your loss, felt her pain, and has started to find some peace in her life. Now, You come back out of the blue and threaten the foundation that she has built to stand on.

She is torn between safe stability, and the roller coaster ride from hell. Now that you've turned around, she can't trust that you'll be there, and at the same time, if ahe moves on, she doesn't know what would have been had she just given you the chance.....

Wouldn't you feel that way if you were her?

Kily,
I see what you mean, I know in my heart that I will not stray again, I'm just not going to go there. But you are right she does not know that, the only history she has is the one of me lying and not being honest. Some how some way she needs to see that I'm being true to my word and the only thing that will work is time. After all she too has had an A and I forgave her. I love her and my children too much to give up.

Hi Lg -

I have been reading your posts and I just wanted to wish you luck. I would give anything for my H to do 1/2 of what you are set out to do. He is the one saying that too much damage has been done, and a lot has been done, but I am the one left standing and hoping for my marriage.

My thoughts are with you!

ThePits,
Tell me about your situation. I think it is really good to hear what other people are going through. I know I made a huge mistake and realize it even more when I found out who the real OW was, she said all the right things, but she was really out for herself. I have seen the light and realize that the grass is not greener and it is worth every stitch of energy to make my marriage work even if my wife is unsure. Jus the fact that she is unsure shows that there is a glimmer of hope. Thanks for all the support.

Well, here it goes........

We are married just over 6 years and together for 13 years. I'm just about to be 35yo and he is 35 years old. We have 3 kids, 5, 3 and 6 months. Yes, he cheated on me while I was pregnant. We have always had a struggle financially, but I was naive enough to think that if we could work through it we would be fine, but I was wrong.

Just over a year ago he started having an A with a 22yo. I sensed something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it. For months the signs pointed more and more toward an affair, which he denied over and over again. Everything came to light when someone sent me an anonomyous letter telling me that he was on vacation with her, I thought he was on a business trip. When he returned he finally admitted that it was true, I was 5 months pregnant at the time. I was scared to throw him out. He said that we were over and that he would stay until the baby was born then he was leaving for her. I sucked it up because I was so afraid to be alone with 2 kids and pregnant. He asked not to tell anyone either as he didn't want to upset anyone further.

Anyway, after a few months of trying to work on things myself, doing a version Plan A without the support of this site as I had not found it yet, he began to change. I finally gave up and told his family. They went nuts and pushed us to work things out. I was all for it, but he wasn't. He said he was, but never cut off contact with OW. He would tell me he did, but I would always find out. I did some snooping and found out where she lives and her phone number. I called her and begged to her leave him alone, that I was pregnant and I needed him. She was floored, she didn't know. I came to light that their whole relationship was based on a lie also. He told her so many lies he couldn't keep them straight anymore. But the 22 year old bimbo hung in there, I thought for sure that she would go running.

Now after many months of telling me he's working on our marriage and lies upon lies of where he is going. I can't take it anymore. We had money problems and I can't begin to think of where the money came from for them to go on vacation. It was her birthday present. For my birthday I had to beg to go out to dinner because we didn't have the money (this was before the affair was confirmed). Then when we did go out it was 2 weeks after my birthday and I knew he didn't want to be there.

He has stayed in our house, letting me cook, clean, do laundry while he comes and goes as he pleases. The countless lies and decit and money spending. This is not the man I married. I don't feel like I have been married for 2 years now. Ask me what when wrong, I can't pin point it other than we just bought a house that needs work and it is costing more than we expected. Also, we weren't planning on my 3rd child (who by the way, looks identical to my husband, the other two look like me - go figure!). Ok, we have stress, but I didn't go out and find someone else. I didn't break my vows, I stood by my husband and the mistakes that were made and I was made out to be a fool.

Now, after finding out that he is still in contact with OW, he has moved out. He tells me it's with friend, but I don't believe him. I think he's with her. I sunk so low following him around and calling her up that I refuse to lower myself to that anymore so I dont' even pass by there to see if he is there. If he is, then he has to live with that choice. And she will tire of him and he will be out on his own. Sad thing is that he is more help to me since he left. He comes over a few days a week to see the kids and he does things around the house. Things I begged him to do before he left. It's sad that I got the husband I wanted, but I needed to get separated!

Don't get me wrong, I want nothing more than my marriage back, we were happy once before all the big stresses. I am scared to death of trying, but I would if he wanted to try. I believe if he gave it any effort we could work through it, but he has to show me some change in him. Some desire to be a better person and I can't do it for him. He needs to do it himself.

That's what the other people on here are telling you. You need to do it for yourself first. If you put forth the effort to better yourself she will see it. It will make a difference. Like I said, I would love to see some sort of effort on his part.

Sorry this is so long! I do wish you the best, you sound sincere and that is refreshing!

Keep up the good work!

ThePits,

If your husband could only see how lucky he is, I have done somthing I'm not proud of and know it, he has done it in your face and does not have a clue how much hurt he has created. He is living in a world that is not real, wait until he has to split time with the kids and he gets the pressure from the OW for more time, trying to juggle two relationships at once is very draining, believe me I did it for a year. I finally realized that is it not worth it and my true love is my wife and my children, they are the ones you can always count on.

I hope my wife changes her mind and does not go through and sign the papers I truly have turned over a new leaf.

Thanks.