space;

She's going to have to crash and burn (badly), before she sees these self-destructive behaviors for what they are. Otherwise, nothing will change for her...

I know, K...I know...I guess it's a matter of the severity of the "Crash" and the "Burns"...I can only hope they are not terminal!

SC,

I agree with K, as always. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But, isn't this the reason you ARE divorced? She couldn't let go of the fantasy of the OM.

The reality is that he really cannot LB from behind bars. He can play the victim, and she expects nothing from him because he is behind bars. If he ever gets out, and she waits that long, then reality will hit. She will have lost a decade or two of her life, probably much of the closeness with her family, her H, and the respect of her children.

I suppose she could lose more, but nothing of such value.

Something drastic will probably have to happen to make her get rid of the illusion before he gets out.

That is my opinion. Sadly, it will hurt her, but that isn't a surprise.

Must go. Hope you are doing well. I guess with her gone you are seeing a lot of your kids. That is good as well.

God Bless,

JL

Spacecase - Just wanted you to know that I can truly understand the care but shouldn't aspect of this divorce thing... It is hard - some people obviously do it better than others - but it is a tough thing to swallow being cast away by the person that we loved - and yet we feel so long and they are just continuing with their little life... My ex also still chooses to lie about most of everything that comes out of his mouth and yes it still bothers me to know end - but after the course of time - (9/02) divorce you really start to not think about it - more and more - what they do or who they do with doesn't seem to matter - or I should say it does matter - but you tend to avoid that sort of information about them and not search it out like in the past....You know what I mean... Just hang in there and enjoy your life - you are not going to be able to figure her out... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I meant to say we feel so lost not so long... Duh??? Anyways as for your apartment I am thinking you need some color on your furniture or pillows - something to liven up the tan, camel or whatever mellow colors -- I am thinking like, red, blue, purple - yellow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CHARTREUSE OR MAUVE ARE MY CHOICES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HOW YOU DOING THERE SPACE?

No, No! You guys are wrong!

What SC needs is a bunch of brightly colored applique flowers, black light posters, and maybe a 2ple of M.C.Escher posters on those chartreuse walls!

Make it look like a set from Austin Powers, SC!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Thanks, JL...even-keeled as ever! (Just POPS me right out of my victimhood!)

About the 'decor', my friends, I took my cherished Yellow Submarine lava lamp out of storage (D would NOT have it anywhere in sight!), and it is now proudly displayed...and going great! Boy can you meditate on those, or what!?

I don't know if I pull her heartstrings, or she pulls mine (well, I KNOW she pulls at mine...hard!), and I don't know if this is good, bad, indifferent, or if it hurt or helps, I just don't know, but here it is...

I went to the house a few days ago to pick up a check from some money D's lending me, AND to finish straightening out the email mess that shut down the whole family's emails last night (what a nightmare! all 7 emails were down! lost emails, the works!). So I get there, she's not there, and I started by changing all the pc's to fix the email problem, test them, etc. Changed the dial-up setting for D's laptop (for when she's "visiting friends" in Florida <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , and such) while she returned.

So she comes back, everythings ready and she gives me the check, and invites me for coffee. So we talk about the kids, the house, the usual stuff. All very nice and friendly, I told her how good she looks (she does! she's just...precious!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

She tells me I'm looking good, says she loves my long hair, runs her hand through it...

And then I ask her; "So how are YOU doing?" she hesitates, looks at me with "that look" which just turns my legs to jello, and says "It's very hard...but I've been running so much..." so I say "you need to take a little time for yourself..." as I walk up to her and caress her cheek "Oh, but when? there's so much to do..." and I say "you don't need to go anywhere, just take a little time to yourself, sit, think, meditate." she laughs, says she knows I'm right. I ask her "are you seeing someone?" and she says "no, no, no..." (and I believe her) then says "yes, it's hard. I miss you, it's very hard" as a tear wells up in her eyes, so I say "you can call me, visit, we can talk any time you want" she responds "I know. You've always been my friend" (OUCH!), and then "how are YOU?" I'm getting teary-eyed too by this time and lamely say "I'm ok..." through the tears...she wipes them off my face with her hand, "I'm ok, it's hard, I miss you too, it's lonely..."
By this time we're sitting across from each other, I get up, lean down and kiss her softly, she gets up and we embrace pretty tight and kiss. Then she leaves her head against my neck, and hold each other without a word for a bit.
I say, "oh sweetie, I love you...I miss you, it's good to see you." she responds "It's good to see you too; I'm glad you came" and I say "me too. I'm glad to see you, you look wonderful...and sexy" she laughs! and with her arm around me walks me to the door, gives me another kiss, and I'm off, saying "come by this weekend, or call me. Mom and bro are going to be here."

So, let's see. Clearly not your average divorced couple behavior, clearly something very confusing, and I have no idea if it's even right, wrong, good or bad for us, better to do this or avoid it, it'll be very hard to get over her if this kind of thing continues, but I don't want to avoid her either....very confused, I am!

If I post this, y'all will clearly crucify me! Burn me at the stake, most likely, and I'm not sure you'd be wrong...but on the other hand, this is how I feel about her, and even though I don't see any way we could be a married couple again, the heart is clearly still very much attached...even though I know she went to see OM just a few days ago...I wish this were easier or less confusing...

any light? bright ideas? thoughts? suggestions? 10 lashings, 20 maybe? case of beer?

Divorced, but still in love ... yet... she is

NOT able/ready/willing to be faithful to you....

a strange cookie ....

YOU may consider dating now .... have you? THIS is my advice .... start playing the field .... you with all that long hair and Hawaiian shirts...

Go see what's out there .... nothing serious, just flirt and look around.

Have you done this yet?

Pep

SC,

Let's see the first major quandry is: How the heck can you give a man 20 lashes for loving his wife? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No apologies needed there my man.

I like Pepper's advice. It is time to start making some new memories. Go slowly, but start going. It will help you heal and it will be reality. She is still hung up with OM, and there is nothing you can do about that. As you say, as much as you love her, you don't see a way you really can take her back. (I do however <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

So do what Pepper is suggesting. By the time the kids leave for college next year you should be on your way, but you must start earlier than that. Reality is she hasn't lost YOU, you have just lost HER. She won't see a thing until you have moved on, then maybe. Then she might change and there might be hope, but a lot of "what if's", "mights" etc.

So SC as usual you are doing well, time to share all of your wisdom and care with other people.

God Bless,

JL

Hmmm....let's see...yes, I think the greatest issue I see with this is that when something like that happens (and believe me, it just happens...it's not REALLY under my control at all, something else takes over when I see her), it sets ME back. I'm not as sure what it does/does not do for her, nor do I care to speculate on that...

Dating...hmmm, a word that has not been part of my vocabulary for over 20 years, so forgive the rust, but I have indeed, begun to shall we say, dip the toes into the pool. Trouble is, I'm still afraid of the sharks...but slowly I think this will pass. That's a good idea and good advice. Confirms my feeling too, so I appreciate the "reality check". Sometimes I'm not so sure I'm not going off the deep end.

Hey Pep; do insane people know they're insane, or do they think they are normal? (not sure I want the answer to that, but shoot anyway! LOL!!!)

You are not insane .... just crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Why's that Pep? What would be not crazy?

Insane is living in another reality .....

2 plus 2 equals 6 ..... insane

Crazy is this .....

2 plus 2 equals 4 ..... but, I wonder....will that still be true tomorrow?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And I'm crazy, I take it...thanks! Love you two!

Hi Space,

Your encounter sounds different than the norm for you and your w even before the D... but then again I was not there.

I know you mention that she shows you more attention when you are less available... keep that in mind and only give her the indication the door is open.... I would not strongly pursue this woman, although you may be giving her what she needs ... attention!

I don't at all flame you, but support you... I know how hard it is.

Maybe as she sees you gone, she will come around, .... sounds like she might be just a bit. Now that you are not properly committed by M, maybe you are more interesting? Maybe M is an issue for your W? Maybe W needs intensive therapy???/ Sorry I feel that way about my H so I must throw that in.

I hope you and your W see what value you are to each other as you reestablish your seperate lives. Maybe after a bit of seperateness you will be one of those great remarriages. Move on, but leave the door cracked... let her know she can come back in willingly, but otherwise you are Moving on - pull some Dbusting and CarolH activities if you dare.... your W does seem to wonder- I remember the Hawaiaan shirt!

After so many years of a M, she will wonder when you act different/ even slightly.

Hugs as Always, glad you are doing well!

H