Mimi,

I see myself in you... the dependence, and neediness for the old relationship, for ws to be himself.

It will only begin again, by rebeginning a new relationship. You wouldn't let him treat you like he does now in the past, would you?

It is so hard when your h has been possessed by some creep you don't even know. It is almost better to pretend he is mentally ill, in a way he is, and then just hope that he will recover. It is so so hard.

I hope we can talk or email as I can so relate to the feelings you are hving. Be strong, don't let him see or be aware of your pining for him. He will want you more as you draw back. Be available but distant, more distant than he is... I know this is hard, but protect you right now.

I am having anxiety today b/c I am going to spend some time with cake eater ws for mother's day. I am angry at him - but would like some contact. I am tired of the whole mess. I am letting him make all the moves, invites, etc. now and requiring more of him to see me... and not stooping to an embarrasing level of desperation... which I was doing for months.

Oh well, ws is im-ing me right now, I am about to end up in tears, b/c I told him I do not want to drive in to his place, and now he says he cannot pick me up...?

Oh well, the place he wants to go is closer to his place, and we are an hour, well maybe 30 minutes from him.. he could definitely come and pick me up, and sounds like he won't... he is being his regular self. I do not feel ok about driving to meet him, so he can just be nice to me.

I am losing my positive energy I had a minute ago so will go, I hope to talk to you again soon. Hope and Hugs to you, take care of you while he is insane.

Hugs, Honey

Hi Mimi.

I relate very closely to you. Like you, my Plan A left my WH with me as the option once, if and when the A ended. I, too, was (and still am, to some degree) somewhat obsessed (maybe not the right word) with the OW and their relationship. Plan B really helps with that. I have gone so far as to alter my way home from work so that I don't have to drive by his apt. and see which cars are out front. This is a large step forward from someone (me) who secretly had a copy of his apartment key made and would check out his apt. from time-to-time.

To answer your question, I didn't write a Plan B letter to the specifications of Harley but I had written several similar letters in the past. Here's the deal, if your WH is like mine (and it sounds like he is) the letters MEAN NOTHING. It is your action that counts. It is only when you start ignoring his calls, not calling back, responding only when absolutely necessary (and, if possible only with voice mail) that he will get the picture and it will begin to hurt. You may not see the hurt, but it will eventually. Or, if it doesn't, you're closer to personal recovery than you were. My WH said tearfully once soon after Plan B began, "you won't even talk to me." Nope, I won't, unless it is regarding the welfare or schedule of my children.

Recently, my WH exaggerated a work situation that he knew would get my attention. (He's a teacher and said that a student had claimed that he assaulted her (he grabbed her arm) and that he would probably get fired and maybe arrested). I did go see him and calmed him down (I was his rock - hey, where's OW in the time of need?) but the only help I offered was that I would take care of the children and that he need not worry about their schedule etc. while he's going through this (I bit my tongue on the offer to visit him in jail <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) Guess what, the whole thing "blew over". It's very easy to get pulled in from time to time (I do) and those sneaky WH's will try. But your life is oh, so much more important that the nasty crap that's going on in his life right now.

I'm no professional in this arena - but my vote is to take yourself out of the triangle. Let them continue in the mess they've created. Oh, by the way - admiration is my WH's big EN too - the one that OW is filling so well. How in heck is the BS (us) suppossed to show admiration (in Plan A) while the WH is cheating on us. I tried, "Oh you're a wonderful father and so handy around the house." Trying to come up with stuff that wasn't completely false - but come on - how does that compare to what OW is able to dish out at this point!! My $.02.

Wow Duejan!

You are my SISTER! You topped me on getting that apartment key. I have been dying to get inside of my WS' condo. I also do alot of checking and searching which I'm trying to stop doing.

I had my GFs over yesterday. They all stressed my need to get out of the triangle. That I do not want to be apart of their world. That I need to maintain my self-respect and not go to their gutter level, etc. They told me that I need to get back to being myself, a better self, that is. This is just DAY 2 and I'm getting there.

WS called on my cellphone voicemail today; I've been turning the phone off so that he can't reach me directly. He was whining about not wanting me to make the boys "hate" him by telling them about the A. Now, why is that my responsibility? He needs to ask the OW why she came to my house and asked my son where my WS was if he did not want them to know about the affair.

That's a good point about the difficulty with admiration. I was thinking that too. It comes off as being phoney to try to admire him at this point. I'm convincing myself, good riddance for him now, because Admiration will be mostly all that he will have for awhile. I'm planning on sticking to my guns with the modified PLAN B.

I can't help but wonder what is going on with them though. He has not made any moves to try to get the furniture back to the condo. I'm not making it easy for him to get in touch with me either. So all weekend they have had to rough it. I know it should not be my concern but I bet that there is alot of LBing going on from her. He has been fooled into thinking that she is not a goldigger. I think she will show her true colors now, particularly when and if she learns about the alimony amount that he has agreed to pay.

Meanwhile I'm thinking about things that I can do to work on myself. I'm putting my house up for sale so getting it ready will take up some time. I'm looking forward to beginning to look for a new house that is just mine. I might even get a puppy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What is wrong with me? Help me to get some sense in my head!

I started bagging up his stuff last night. He has loads and loads of clothes in his closet which he states he will have to get "slowly". Also his drawers are full!

After finishing several bags, I started getting that scared feeling that he will be mad at me? Why I can't get mad at him? That's how he continues to control me.

I'm coming to the realization that there is no chance for us as long as there is any relationship between them. Unfortunately, I'm here hoping that they are fighting since he isn't trying to get any of his stuff. Maybe he's depressed about the separation. Why should I care??

I started thinking that I am addicted to him. However, when I said this to Steve H., he said that my feelings about WS are appropriate since I see him as "MY TEAM-MATE". I'm sorry that I didn't ask Steve more about this because what I am feeling does not seem to be healthy, wanting someone that does not seem to want me.

Venting this morning!!

HELP!!!!! I want to call him. We've talked every morning for the past three weeks.

Originally posted by mimi1254:
What is wrong with me? Help me to get some sense in my head!

Orchid: U are hurt, frustrated, scared and confused. Yep all separate feelings rushing together in a panic. Very normal for a BS in your sitch.

I started bagging up his stuff last night. He has loads and loads of clothes in his closet which he states he will have to get "slowly". Also his drawers are full!]/b]

Orchid: U finished the packing. Don't do it on 'his timetable' that's WS babble. U get it out when you are ready. He will take what he needs. I got the same line and after a few times of that learned to pack him up (for my sake) in less than 2 hours when he told me it would take 2 -4 weeks. (yea right!).

[b]After finishing several bags, I started getting that scared feeling that he will be mad at me? Why I can't get mad at him? That's how he continues to control me.

Orchid: U will get mad at him, just not right now. Your motherly instincts are taking over and you want to protect your family (including H). Realize that he isn't acting like a worthy family member right now.

I'm coming to the realization that there is no chance for us as long as there is any relationship between them. Unfortunately, I'm here hoping that they are fighting since he isn't trying to get any of his stuff. Maybe he's depressed about the separation. Why should I care??

Orchid: Right now that is correct. You care because that is who you are. Can't erase that so don't. Let him know (later) that it is very hard for you to stop caring. Those words will ring in his hears.

I started thinking that I am addicted to him. However, when I said this to Steve H., he said that my feelings about WS are appropriate since I see him as "MY TEAM-MATE". I'm sorry that I didn't ask Steve more about this because what I am feeling does not seem to be healthy, wanting someone that does not seem to want me.

Orchid: I understand. Steve is correct. But you can't just turn off your feelings. So don't fight it. It will dwindle down to a level you can work with. Remember you just had another d/d type of sitch again.

Venting this morning!!

Orchid: Vent away...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have to go to work so I won't be checking for a while. Keep posting, it sure helped me.

take care,
L.

I realize now that staying in THEIR ALIEN WORLD made me feel more and more unworthy. I'm glad I made the decision to get together with my friends. They, like ORCHID, reminded me that I am a caring person and that's OK. My WS could control and manipulate me by deflating my self-esteem. That kept me from questioning him.

Right now, I'm moreso back on top of things like I was in late January/early February when I was doing such a grand PLAN A. I'm not sure what PLAN I'm doing now. I guess PLAN A with better boundaries or PLAN B with continued but very limited contact. One thing is for sure, I will no longer be the OW. I will maintain my position as the W. NO DATING, NO SECRET MEETINGS, etc.

He is already trying to get back into his cake-eating pattern again. I'm not picking up for telephone calls which is a new pattern for me. We are communicating through Voice Mail. He needs to make financial arrangements regarding a couple of matters. His voice tone and attitude is so nice and gracious, giving the message I will do anything you ask me to do. Anything but get rid of the OW, that is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm no fool! He indicates that he does not want me to leave detailed messages on his voice mail, suggesting that he does not want her to know that he is helping me. He seems to recognize that this is back to our previous pattern and then says, "I guess NO ONE (OW) can listen to my messages". I plan to leave whatever messages I need to leave. There is no need for us to keep it a secret that we are married, right?

I can't help but wonder why he is so AFRAID of her. I guess it's that strong need for the DRUG

What I resent most right now is that I am almost right back where I was before in terms of being the stable one, handling this situation. What do you guys see that I need to do differently? Does this stuff go on and on forever?? Do As ever end????

I think what's good, though, is that I will get stronger and will be a more independent, less needy woman. That's MY PLAN

Melody and WAT are you still out there?

Good Mimi,

U will find that your bounce back to personal recovery will be quicker and stronger this time than the original. Also you will be setting those boundaries in a firmer mode (bigger bite) on the WS and he will feel it. He may whine about you not caring and you know what? He is right. How can you care for someone who keeps leaving his pants on the street? I used to paint those graphic illustrations to the WS so that he could have those sordid thoughts while he was with the OW. Oh yea, for me it was easier to push them together than fight to keep them apart. That really pizzed off the OW since she thought I was only programmed to break the A. Right.... what a ding dong!!!! There are many ways to break the A and sometimes it includes smushing their faces in their A feaces. YUCK!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

L.

He's creating a problem for himself. I'm beginning to like this CONDO furniture. There's a nice leather couch in the sitting room part of my bedroom and several nice chairs. He has not mentioned anything about arranging to come get it. I know, but I can't help but wonder what she's thinking about that empty place. At least, they have a bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Use the furniture or sell it???? I hear possession is 9/10ths of the law!!!! Since that piece of law was attempted to be used against me, I think it should also be used to benefit the BS as needed!!!!

L.

<small>[ May 12, 2003, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Mimi, sorry to hear he's backtracking and not making the break permanent.
Get your finances in order and legally! Next, continue to be evasive with him, not always available.
If you're selling your house, make sure he's off title so its all yours!
Also, I do not care how young this woman is, you can outlook, outshine her in everyway.
Make yourself over, whatever it takes. I think you said you'd lost lot of weight. Exercise, tone, it's good for releasing good hormones so you feel better. Get new hair style, professional makeup lessons at Dept store, they do it for free!
Get new, sexy, but classy clothes. There is a difference between sexy and sexy classy. LOl I'm sure you know what I mean.
Act happy, be gone a lot when you can. Be evasive about your social life!
Enlist friends, family to babysit. If you have to, enlist a friend, friends brother, or whomever to be seen with you occasionally. Make him jealous and wondering what you're up to!
He feels he owns you and he can switch back and forth at his whims. Let him think you're moving on with your life and finding someone else also.
The young'un will become boring after a while!
My kids are grown, but there isn't a young woman out there I can't give a run for her money. LOL Looks and all.
You're age is the advantage actually!
Be mysterious from now on. Be the seductive, alluring type. But not with him. Just let him wonder who's benefiting by the new you!
Some may not agree, but I say it drives a UH nuts to think he's losing his wife. That she would find anyone but him to be with.
Keep the furniture too. LOL Or it it's a trigger, sell the stuff. Be sure that house is all yours prior to selling, Get him to sign a quit claim deed to you.
You may love him and be hurting now, but if you give him all the control, you'll never be happy and he'll never be faithful. They do it to us because they can, as Dr,Phil says.
I'd become so changed he wouldn't know me on the street! Join a book or poetry club. Get out and meet new people.
God bless you, LouLou

Hi LouLou:

I really appreciate your inspirational message. It means alot because I am really struggling with self-esteem issues, feeling rejected by WS for who I am. I realize now that I need to be accepted for who I am and cannot really change my basic personality to be different.

You see, I have her beat out in the looks department. I can't offer him the admiration that comes naturally with her youth. That is what he is searching for. Also, he stresses how he likes her ways and that she thinks they are "soulmates". I hate it that I am back comparing myself to her.

I just have to go ahead and grieve that the relationship that we once had is over. Unfortunately, this situation has made me loose the admiration and respect that I did have for him. I had regarded him as such a good, decent person and now he has chosen to be with a slease. I've been doing a lot of self-talk today, telling myself that he does not want me. That's what's keeping me from calling him.

I have a legal separation agreement in which he agreed to pay a large sum of alimony and child support. Therefore, I agreed to share half the equity on the house with him.

I'm trying to take it one hour at a time, one day at a time.

I'm beginning to rely more on my religious faith. Have to put my faith in God, not in man.

Any ideas on how best to come out victorious on the following interaction with WS which is leaving me FEELING BAD. I don't like allowing him to make me feel this way.

Yesterday, through cellphone messages, he agreed to HELP (?) me with trading in my car (which is in his name) to get a new car which will be in my name. I waited all day for a call as I really wanted to get this done ASAP. I called and left him a cellphone message about what is the status of car situation and I would be glad to handle it myself.

He responds vaguely saying "I have the guy working on your car" now. This means he probably did not proceed with doing anything today. He seemed pissed that I bothered him about it. He then says that he needs to arrange to get "some clothes" out of the house and maybe "some furniture". He put it like since I'm doing this for you, you need to do this for me.

I called him back (we're still leaving messages) and said that he needed to arrange an extended amount of time to get his stuff because I would like for him to get all of it at once since this whole process is so "painful" for me. I also asked him for more specifics regarding what he is doing about the car.

I don't like the way this feels. What's wrong with this picture? What should I be doing differently? What's going on?

Should I write him a PLAN B letter so I can become more detached or disengaged? Or am I still in PLAN A and should have been less demanding.

I also need to talk to him about getting a separate checking account. Does it seem like he is avoiding following through with the actual legal separation arrangements? Do we set up a meeting to talk about everything?

I'M CONFUSED!!!

bump^^

Love in Christ,
Miss M

HELP!!!!

IS there a reason why no one wants to help me? I'm feeling rejected by Marriage Builders.

Mimi

Loads of people have been helping you, but sometimes it is the wrong time of day, or there aren't many people around. Keep bumping up to get more ideas or input.

Now, what specifically is worrying you, the way he is behaving about the car and stuff? If you decided not to send a Plan B letter, but are just behaving in a Plan B way, you need to set some boundaries. So, it is not a trade off that he'll help you with the car and he wants "some" stuff. You seemed to say before that you wanted him to get everything. Did you tell him that? If so, then that is the deal.

It's hard yards, it really is, but you will be OK. Glad to hear you got some of the girls together, what else are you doing for you?

Lisa

Lisa,
I'm really struggling this morning. I made a decision last night that I had to accept the reality of this-that his heart does not belong to me. He had mentioned last night that he wanted to take the separation "slowly" and I told him that I can't do that-that we have to go ahead and make the break. I guess I was hoping that my statement to give up on him would make him MAGICALLY change his mind and say "I'm Sorry", this was a big mistake. Instead, this morning he agreed with my Plan to go along with the big break. He is eagerly setting up a plan to get all of his stuff to move into the condo.

Unlike other WSes that I'm reading about in this stage, my WS is being so nice and gracious now, sounding more like himself. His style is making me want him again. I think being nice is making him feel better about himself. It's like he has pity for me or something.

I don't know what to think or to do. I know that I am very sad and am feeling a huge sense of loss and rejection.

Is there anything I can do now to help make myself feel better? Would writing him a letter help? I think the best thing would be for me to finally realize that there is nothing that I really can do.

I want to call him and BEG him to come back to me. That's what I am struggling with right this minute.

MIMI,

About the checking account. If you aren't in an official plan B, things are pretty much up in the air regarding finances.

One thing you could do that would not be a LB is to leave the joint account alone for now and open another one in your name only. You could put the money that you need for bills, etc. in your own account to make sure that your finances are okay. Leave the other acct alone, don't put any more money into it. WS doesn't have to know that you have another account. Perhaps that will make you feel a bit more secure.

You do need to protect yourself while this is going on. If WS is feeling generous about car, go for it, but no pressure.

Do only what you need to do to protect yourself. Do what you need to do to take care of you. Just take care of MIMI right now.

Love in Christ,
Miss M