I really dont know where to begin. I was once a frequent poster on Recovery. Havent posted for perhaps 12 months. Please let me give you a brief recap

We have been together/married for 18 years. Second time round for both of us. I was OW.

We are both "achievers" career-wise and well recognised.

H is Vietnam veteran - suffers fron depression but does not acknowledge it.

We are probably both conflict avoiders.

H's affair began late 1998; when they traveled o/seas together for business.

I have done Plan A/Plan B; we have separated and got together so many times I cannot remember.

I have read, been to counselling etc. - H has done neither. Not his scene.

At this time, we are "separated but good friends".

18 months ago I was diagnosed with breast cancer. he was there with me every day.

OW has been "on again off again" throughout all of this. She now seems to be out of the picture ???

So to today. We are separated. H declines going to divorce "at this stage". Our house is for sale.

To this day I believe we had a very happy life together. I do not know how/why this happened; except that we were both caught up in our careers; travelling; house renovatons etc. etc. But, I thought we had a truly happy and satisfying relationship. They were the the happiest years of my life.

H has expressed remorse, guilt - apologises for "the grief" - usually in writing; he cannot talk much about emtions

Yesterday he arrived back from 6 weeks o/seas. He has been sending me e-mail messages and heaps of postcards while he was away - mainly of places we have been together. V. nostalgic. Affectionate - but not loving. Half a dozen phone calls in the past 36 hours! Mainly about letting me know he is back in the country - and some domestic/admin arrangements.

Today he has asked me to come to lunch with him on Sunday - at our home!

So - I get a bit optimistic - but then I remember that I have been here before - he seems almost to want to go go forward together - but not kbnow how. And, by now I am ready to walk away unless he comes to the recovery party 100+%

I know I can move on without him; but I would really like to share my life with him. I love him. He was my "soul mate" - and still is my best friend (even while recognising that he has been an @#$%hole).

Friends, this is a very short story about a long and difficult period - and I than you for listening.

Should I just accept being a "friend"? Would I want to be friends with someone who has shown he can look me in the eye and lie? At the same time he is the person I love - and who has loved me; and who makes a big effort to keep me "connected" - while at the same time distancing himself physically and emotonally

Where can I go from here? Sometimes I think "when the house is sold there is no further reason for contact - alleluhia I can get on with my life! At other times I think we can recover from all of this.

What next - do I just walk away; exit left etc; say "no. I am not coming to lunch - it just causes me more grief in the long term" - work on being "friends"; ask "what the heck do you want from a relationship with me"; go and live in Alaska?

Your thoughts PLEASE!

R

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I just accept being a "friend"? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not saying you just accept just being a "friend", but if you would like to try and rebuild from this pile of ashes, you are going to have to start somewhere.

And the start is by being friends.

If you are up to it, get all fixed up.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> go and be your lovely, wonderful, confident self and enjoy the lunch.

A discussion is in order eventually. You need to know exactly his position (honesty) and have your non-negotiable boundaries in place (NC with OW) before your relationship can be restored.

Counseling for me would be a non-negotiable. I know now we would never have survived without it trying to do it on our own.

God bless,
Susan

Rosie,

I've thought about you. No advice. Sorry. I'm just about to leave for OS graduation. Yes he made it. Then I'm one of the parents for the all night safe party.

Just know I'll be thinking of you. Hate that you are selling your beautiful home. I was always sorry that I couldn't get down to see you when I was on your side of the world.

Let us know how things turn out.

Tough call Rose.

On the one hand if you guys split you will be what few X's are...friends.

On the other hand I get the impression that you love him too much to be a friend.

Perhaps you should tell him that...you love him to much to be his friend and see how he responds.

Have you thought about basically starting from scratch with him? By that, I mean, start doing plan A. But give yourself a solid ending date for when you move to a plan B. (3 months maybe?)

You obviously know the Harley methods, and seeing that you're back here, I assume you believe them as well. How about using them this one last time? You've waited so long already, and ESPECIALLY because you say you still love him, why not just give it that one last go?

I'll admit... I do not remember your story... so if I'm way out of line by suggesting this... just give me the good ol' MB 2x4. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Karen

Susan, Stunned-dad, Topie 2 - and Sing old friend! - thankyou for your responses. I have thought long and hard today. I dont want to/cannot - go down this path again - the emotional and physical toll is too difficult. I am well (having got through a breast cancer episode) and relatively calm and happy(??) - in my current circumstances; the hurt and and despair comes flooding back at the thought of going down the recovery path again.

I certainly will go to lunch tomorrow - looking terrific! And I think I will try Plan A again - from a distance - I will give it five weeks (one week for each year or part year we have been on this treadmill- and, at the end of that time, unless there is some "retiurn on the investment" - just tell him it is too hard to be his friend.

Well friends - that is my plan. Wish me well.

R

Sing - I would love to hear from you. I am still on harmar52@hotmail.com; how time flies! - I am so glad to hear about OS!!! You must be so proud!
Do write and tell me how you are doing and where you are; nd what happened etc. etc. I have wondered about you often!

Hugs R

Hello my friend,

I'll cut you some slack...been waiting for you on recovery for 24 hours....you poop..you were over here!

Great Dame time, no doubt about it. And of course you'll look stunning..you are stunning.

Rosie, the basics..the basics...be honest with yourself and him..about expectations, who you've both become in the past 2-3 years, and especially your respective capabilities.

What is he capable of giving toward recovery...what are you capable of giving.

Let me know what happens.

Remember, we have the alternate plan....2 middle aged, gloriously preserved females by the pool playing with the half-naked young attendants.
Love,
T

Well, we had the lunch! Very strange being "back home". In brief, we had a great day. H seemed happy to see me; lots of hugs; lots of laughs; lovely lunch in the sun and a bottle of wine; and presents for me; could be any happy couple on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

And I snooped - didnt even pretend I wouldnt - OW is still about - saw the phone accounts - and I found a note containing dot points for
a "serious relationship talk" - but not with me;
preparation for (yet another) ending with OW - he notes his overwhelming grief and guilt about what he has done to me/us - and "R and I have the basis for a strong and happy r/ship". Comments about their age difference (she is 25 years younger!); says he wants to simplify his life; does not want to continue with the deception and disruption to everyone involved. Says "it is best for everyone for him to say "goodbye OW". Right on!! But I am not dancing a polka - been down this track before. And she always reappears.

.. and now he has just rung me and chatted for 25 minutes - about everything and nothing - oh boy, I am so tired; I dont want to risk going through all the pain again; I just wish he would tell me what the hell he is trying to do - where do I fit in his life? We have been separated for 9 months - I have made good progress - except for the difficulty of dealing with the "unfinished business" - my head is telling me to make a run for it right now; and my heart ...???

How to handle this?

Twyla - I was THE southern belle! Hat and all!

R

See? Even an Aussie can benefit from some good old "southern comfort"!

You realize, of course, that by coming back, you now have to stay and keep us apprised of all that's happening for the next 5 weeks. I'm waiting for the updates.

T

How to Handle this?
Well, I knew I forgot something....do you want to plan A with the presense of the OW? Cause you've been down that road before.

Personally I see him as the initiater here for the first time..I think you should use some of that.

Now, you could gently tell him.."I'm ready and waiting..as soon as she is completely gone" and revert to plan B...but something tells me he needs SOME positive reinforcement.

So you could modify your Plan A a bit...think we talked of this before...maybe only being available every 3-4th time.

What's your gut on this Rosie?
T

Thanks T. Actually my gut is churning. I just want to hop on the first flight out of the country - walk away - and stay away - forever. Right at this moment I want to back off. My mind is all over the place. Part of me says continue the bright happy and positive face; plus enough affection and encouragement to keep me in the loop; the other part wants to say to him; "It was lovely to see you yesterday; I love you very much; but clearly OW is still in the picture; and it is all too hard for me - if you want to have me in your life I need for you to tell me what that means and how your relationship with me into the future - and let me decide whether i want to be there or not".

I want to be in the picture - but three's a crowd - and honey, isnt it all so familiar ??? Sense of "been there done that".

Maybe just keeping low profile till the end of the month is the way to go. I guess that gives him time to "sort it" with OW - and put his case to me. ???

R

Rosie,
Does it help to know that my stomach would be tied in knots too?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe just keeping low profile till the end of the month is the way to go. I guess that gives him time to "sort it" with OW - and put his case to me. ???
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this would be the "safest" for you emotionally considering all you have been through.

I do think he will be contacting you on a regular basis now...so..I guess a sort of "detached" plan A till the end of the month when he does call. However at the end of the month, I definately would want some sort of boundary inplace re NC and counselling.

Of course, then I think about all of it again and think the small note you have in mind is the way to go too.

Great your gut hurts...my head hurts...ain't we a pair?

OK..you've had time to sleep on it..has it helped give you a clearer picture?
T

Yep .. I am feeling better today - I should just tell you I am in the midst of big challenges at work - and travelling a lot - so I am very tired -I guess I have learnt to just slow the pace when all my emotional responses are jumping out of the box. So that is what I figure on doing - about nothing. He rang this am - v. chatty etc; almost as though he is saving up "interesting" things to talk about (ie other than the finances or other domestic admin) -

He has gone back to the city (where OW lives) now - so I dont expect to hear from him (until he is back in my territory)

T - just remind me regularly that I have been here before! I am beginning to see how well I enabled this whole business!

So I'm not doing anything - basically, he has a month in which to come to my party - after which I say "the end" - again!

Just needed to write this to remind myself what I am doing.

R