OPEN LETTER:

I am the WS of a long time Marriage Builders member whom a lot of you seem to love and care about. She has told me about the great benefits she has received by participating. I can see that you all genuinely care for her, and I am thankful.

Because of recent posts I feel a need to clarify things just a little:

First, my wife is an extremely intelligent, successful, and articulate woman who holds an MBA from a fine University. She also happens to be very attractive.

But I would put forth that anybody here who thinks they have the “full background” is mistaken:

There have been multiple serious life endangering episodes of violence, which have also put the children at serious bodily risk.

She has tried to run me over with her car five times (succeeded once). She threatened to kill me with a hair dryer while I was in the tub. I have been beat while asleep (not “passed out”), had shirts torn off, had water dumped on me as I was late for work too many times to remember, hot coffee to the face, nail polish remover squirted in my eyes, been kicked in the ribs, basically any of the bad stuff you might imagine.

I have seen an entire restaurant empty to pick up my child from the intersection where my wife dropped him while chasing me on foot. He was in the street, on the ground.

I have multiple scars on my arms and neck from the violence.

Whoever was talking about the crazy dynamics that I set up, I am sorry to say you are very wrong. Shame on you for your judgmental rhetoric!

My wife has been on and off of medication for TEN years, including medicines for bi-polar disorder (manic depression), personality disorder, and emotional problems. She has also been diagnosed with many of the “generic” problems, including anxiety, depression, and drug dependence.

I have known her for TWENTY years.

I spent TWO YEARS of living with her while she would not brush her teeth, and would scream “Bring Me My Medicine!” and SPIT ON ME when I brought it, saying “Next Time Don’t Be Late!”

I explained that I would have no choice but to move out if things did not get better. I gave her one year. I also discussed this with her parents repeatedly, who encouraged me to stay extra time; I did so. I ended up staying 13 months and 3 days. It was agonizing to see someone I love so much self destruct, but I felt that someone was going to end up dead if I did not leave.

The final straw was when I heard her repeatedly denigrating my son, who had dressed himself for school, with an apparent dirty shirt. Her abuse of him lasted for at least 10 minutes, before I came down and said “It’s Our Fault.”

It was then that I realized the violence was carrying on to my children, and I knew instantly that I would no longer stand and watch it again.

My child was crying. I remember feeling when I was able to “escape” without water or coffee poured on me, that the sole reason had been the fact my son took the abuse for me that morning. I feel so guilty that I was glad.

Now, after two long years of constant violence, my wife got back on her medication, because I demanded to stop counseling without it, and, at 15 weeks ago I am sure you all saw a different change in demeanor, as the medicine began working. Out of 12 years of marriage the longest time span my wife has been on this medication is 8 months- six years ago, and during those 8 months was part of the best times of our life.

That IS the reason I am jealous- NOT because I do not want another man for her, NOT because I am so shocked at the divorce, but because I have waited SO LONG to see this side of my WIFE again.

There is a single guy who is now dating her. This is after 10 months with one counselor, 3 months with another, and 2 sessions with yet another. I have found the children home alone on (17) occasions in the last five weeks- always after 9 PM.

The last time we had counseling (this week) “Mommy is gone again”, this time at midnight, and after I had the kids together she showed up- with Darren in her car. She later explained after a long series of lies that in fact she was taking him from one bar to another, and had just decided to come home with him for “a minute”… Whatever!

He circles the block whenever I am there. I have received strange phone calls, and a mysterious note with a bag on my door: “Thanks for the $5 Tip, What’s it For?”

Today when I called her room in Hawaii her roommate asked me if I was Darren; she said “She is in the shower, but I can get her out if this is you, Darren.”

Before I would start purporting to know “all of the facts” I might think about the possibility that a lot of times there IS another side.

I will continue to try and save my marriage; your prayers are greatly appreciated, but quit bickering about my business until you have unfortunately walked in my shoes. –J


ADDENDUM:

I wrote the note above some two weeks ago, and decided to wait and think about things before posting it. I was angry, and as part of my healing, I have been looking at how I deal with anger- and learning to step back and take a breath before I express my feelings.

My wife and I have been in counseling, as some of you might know, for 20 months. We recently began counseling again- after it was evident that she was taking her medicine. And of course, as those of you who do know her know by now that the “Cheater Man” –or whatever you guys call them here (I have my own words for him these days)- began.

Now she has told the children, after 3 months of dating him, that they may get married. This man who I have talked to on the phone and tried to explain the history of the mental illness, and the children, and the fact that we have been trying to put our marriage back together for 20 months- bought my kids a puppy for Christmas.

On Friday of last week I was supposed to have the kids from 10AM (The day after Christmas) until the 5th of January. My wife asked if the kids could go to a party with a lawyer lady she knows from work, and that she needed the job with her. I of course said OK; she was supposed to call at noon and confirm that they’d be with me by 2PM. So, I cleaned and cleaned- she had promised to come in and have a cup of coffee with me- and I was excited. Come 4PM I still had not heard from her. I called her house 5 times, which I would later learn that my son had seen me calling, but was prohibited from answering the phone.

At 9PM she called me from a bar and said “I only have 5 seconds to talk so make it quick. I am out with a friend.” She said she would call in a minute back. Then, 46 minutes later she called and said she was too tired to bring the kids home. I said “I will just come get them then” and she eventually said OK, after I reminded her that this was my time with the kids.

When I got there, she was obviously very drunk. The first thing my 5yo said to me was that “We’ve been at a drinking place!” He said that the other guy had given him quarters and told him to go have fun. This is a bar in Houston that is KNOWN for being a seriously rough place- it is a biker bar. So anyway, my 11yo son showed me the new puppy, and I was a little surprised.

The next day, my 5yo says “Daddy, [name omitted] doesn’t have a mother”. And I was like “I am sorry to hear that”. And then my 11yo goes “Well, I guess he just has problems”. And I was like “What problems?” And he says “Well he keeps telling us how his mother used to hit him in the shins with a rolling pin, every time he did any little thing wrong”. And I am like “What in the world is this guy telling my kids that for”???

Then, I am watching a kid video with my 5yo, and he starts clinging to me real tight, and I am like what’s wrong Wesley? And he says “Daddy, xxxxxx is going to put John James (my 11yo) in jail”. And I am like what???? And he says “it’s true- xxxxxx is going to put John in jail.

And so I called my 11yo and was like what?? And he said, “Well xxxxxx and mommie went to take Wes to the Mexican flea market to buy a dog and I didn’t want to go, and then they came back drunk, because they had been at the xxxxxxx xxxxxx bar, and they said we are all going to Joe’s Crabshack to eat, and I said I was hungry but did not want to go- and she never brought the food from Kroger that she said originally where she had gone with Wesley, and she said why? -and I said “because I don’t feel good about it- I think the guy is a psycho”.

So then my wife grabs the Rolling Pin and begins chasing him around the house- but she’s drunk enough where she can’t run straight. My son yells “I am going to call 911 if you hit me with that!” and then xxxxxx gets in my son’s face and screams “I’m going to give you a reason to dial 911!” –while poking his finger into my son’s chest. Yes, unfortunately it did leave bruises, and yes I have photos, and yes I have a CPS claim, and yes I have petitioned the court for a temporary custody order, and yes my lawyer wants $3500, and yes I will pay it….

In the end, they went to Joe’s and had “special dessert” and my 5yo said they all sat around and toasted / laughed that John was not going to get the “Special Dessert”. Then, they went BACK to the xxxxxxx xxxxxx bar and DRANK MORE- this is when she called with “5 seconds”. Finally, they came home and announced to John how they had had the dessert and laughed that he did not get any.

My kids tell me that mommy and xxxxxx drink “forever, for hours” and “then we get in his car and he drives fast”. I said “where do you go?” and they said “bars”. My 11yo tells me xxxxxx’s car is parked next to where he gets on the bus each morning for school. What’s up with that?? 3 months of knowing this guy?? I am beside myself that I have been married to someone for 12 years who capable of this kind of behavior.

Yes I cheated! Yes it was wrong!! Yes I am sorry!!! God, please help me…


jim_barfield@msn.com

Hey Jim, can I make a suggestion? Your story really deserves its own thread and I would suggest starting a new thread and copying your post into it. That way it will get the attention it deserves and we won't hijack Lianne's thread.

Just click on the button: "New Topic" in the General Questions forum and paste the content of your post. You have made several good points in your post and I would hate to see it lost at the bottom of Lianne's thread.

Thanks and welcome to Marriage Builders!

Lianne, how can he not know that you have stopped meeting his needs? You don't talk to him. You can't meet his needs if you are not in contact with him. You sent him a Plan B letter telling him not to contact you.

Yeah, but since sending the PlanB letter we have actually spoken again, (by phone, but they weren't the long conversations we used to have), he was in my home on Christmas Day and I was OK and all friendly with him, so he'll be thinking that everything is all hunky dory between us again.

As far as him Plan Bing you, I seem to remember his frantic calls to you, which you wouldn't return, after you quit speaking to him once your daughter told you that he was going to marry the OW.

That's true, he did call a few times afterwards and I ignored them all, BUT I think he probably got frantic at the thoughts that he wouldn't see his daughter again after I'd said "Goodbye Forever" to him. He was more afraid he'd lose her rather than me. If you remember though, I'd called him back a week later and told him that he could still see our daughter, but that he couldn't take her to OW's anymore. After this phone call, three weeks went by where I never saw him nor heard anything at all from him - then suddenly and out of the blue he calls in regard to child support. Contact resumed, but only in regard to child support and our daughter. He claims he never got the first PlanB letter I sent, but the second one he did because I gave it to him in early December again! He'd stopped making long phone calls, well before he got this second PlanB letter.

But simply not talking to someone is not Plan B. Plan B is severing contact with a stated strategy for a path back. He has not done that.

OK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Seems that he has resorted back to his old ways Melody <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

He said he would collect our daughter last Sunday and then I'd recieved a phone call last Sunday morning from him, saying that he wouldn't be coming because his car was in a million pieces, he was on repairing it. Fair enough I thought and at least he had the decency to call and let me know because he usually doesn't bother calling, he just doesn't show up.

Anyway, it's Saturday again (child support day) and he has neither called on the phone nor shown up. This is the second week he hasn't paid, (he last paid me the Saturday before Christmas). Chances are he will not show up for our daughter in the morning either because he normally doesn't when he has missed child support. So it's probably because it was Christmas that he was seeing his daughter more, so as to ensure he got his Christmas presents to her...now it's over, he goes back to his old ways.

It's our daughters birthday 12th Jan though, so I'm expecting he will resurface next weekend. But still, it's just not good enough.

Sorry- I was not trying to threadjack <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll start a new thread, just in case, but I am guessing my marriage is shot anyway

J

Jim, thanks for understanding!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After this phone call, three weeks went by where I never saw him nor heard anything at all from him - then suddenly and out of the blue he calls in regard to child support. Contact resumed, but only in regard to child support and our daughter. He claims he never got the first PlanB letter I sent, but the second one he did because I gave it to him in early December again! He'd stopped making long phone calls, well before he got this second PlanB letter.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish you would have shown us the letter so we could have avoided all this. But I think as long as he has the letter and you have told him that you would consider taking him back if he ends his relationship, then it should be fine. There really isn't much more you can do except make sure you don't do anything that gives him the wrong idea.

Any new happenings with his visitation? Did he show up to collect your daughter?

Hi Melody

I havn't heard a thing from him. He didn't show up for our daughter today and again I recieved no child support, (for the second week).

I am sitting at home with our daughter huddled with blankets in a freezing cold home at the minute, because we have no central heating at the moment. I can buy extra heating for the card meter with money, but I have no money left. If he'd shown with this child support, then I wouldn't be without heating for my home.

It is absolutely disgusting that he has left us in such predicaments!! He knows that I struggle really hard to make ends meet, to pay bills, etc, etc.....but does he care? Not one bit!! So long as he is ok, that is all that matters to him.

You know something, I'm thinking of just totally giving up, going ahead and filing for D myself. I've just about taken all that I can stomache. Judging by his actions and continued actions this past nine months, he is so obviously and exactly where he wants to be. His actions, (failure to pay child support/not keep up visitation to our daughter) also prove that he doesn't care less about myself and our daughter anymore and is no longer interested in our welfare/wellbeing - he cares only about himself and his homewrecking other half.

He is the kind of man who rather than ensure that his daughter is living comfortably and ensuring her important needs are being met, warmth, food, clothing, etc......he'd rather go out and buy with his money a bike for her!!!!!!!! LOL...he is pathetic and must be one of the lowest forms of life that has ever crawled this earth!!

Melody, this was a man who since confessing his affair, never gave me nor our marriage a chance!! He showed no signs of wanting to even work on our marriage and give it another chance. He couldn't wait to get out of the door to run to her!! He was gone within two minutes of confessing this affair to begin a new life with this woman he'd only claimed to have known for three weeks, they were immediately shacked up together....I didn't stand a chance with him/or a chance to save my marriage from day one of him leaving. If my H had any second thoughts about what he was doing, he'd never have gone in the first place - but NO, he knew what he wanted, CHOSE what he wanted and he's never looked back and let's be honest, it doesn't look likely that he ever will.

He just totally deserted us back then and he continues to ignore us, neglect us, treat us as umimportant in his life and has basically just shrugged off any and all responsibility for us. I could never forget nor forgive just what I have had to endure this past nine months and all at his hands.

This really isn't the kind of man that I want in my life anymore.....what woman in their right mind would? I deserve so much more better than him and I will go all out to ensure that I get what I deserve.

And so, I'm waving goodbye and it's good riddance to him. I will be seeking a solicitors advice and contacting CSA this week. If he doesn't want to be a responsible father, then he is not entitled to be a father at all - he can contact a solicitor in regard to seeing his daughter because from henceforth he sees his daughter no more, unless a court instructs he does. By the time I've finished with him in court and told them all that I have to say, he will be lucky to see her again anyway.

Thanks for all of your help and advice Melody. You've been a real support throughout and it was all truly appreciated. Now I guess I need to make my own way in life.

AGAIN, A BIG THANKS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lianne, where ya going?? Can I make a suggestion? You have an immediate and compellng problem with the heating situation. Why not call him right now and tell him you need the money NOW for heat? The needs of your daughter come before Plan B and maybe you will get the money you need and wake him up a bit.

He'd probably say something like he doesn't have any money....will make up the excuse that he hasn't been to work, or that he's only worked two days or something, so there's little point. His last priority is us Melody, it's s total waste of time calling him for anything, I've tried before with little success. His money he reckons, is totally taken up in his new life these days and he's always saying he has lots to pay out at that end such as rent on a private home, council tax.....blah, blah, blah..... Funny that OW doesn't seem to pay anything, she works too so they do have two wages going in their shackup so they won't exactly be destitute.

Nope, I will have it all out with him face to face when I see him. It's about time I truly stood up for myself and told him just exactly what I think of him.

Thanks for the concern but don't worry about us. We are ok despite no heating. Guess it will be an early night for us both watching tv and then in the morning my family allowance is due anyway, so the heating will be back on first thing tomorrow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

Melody, a question. Is it a LB to call the OW names to your WS?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I had a close up good look at my H's OW yesterday and my lord, all I have to say is he must be desperate! LOL. I know we shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but I honestly thought that my H had better taste than she is. It's an insult, it really is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
His OW does not have a clue who I am btw. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway he called earlier and asked could be collect our daughter on Sunday to take her to dinner. Going to dinner with him, means that OW will be there......and so I said no he couldn't take her to dinner with he and OW - he knows the terms! He began saying it wasn't fair he only saw our daughter for two hours, I told him that it was his problem and not mine.

Well...I couldn't help it and it just came blurting out. I told him that he must be desperate and that his OW was *dog faced*....lol. Also told him that I couldn't believe that he would leave me and our beautiful daughter for THAT and told him also that I'd thought he had better taste. He merely said he didn't want to argue with me, even though I wasn't picking an argument, just stating what I'd observed. I guess he didn't know what to say and was stuck for words, he didn't jump to her defence as I'd expected him too.

To be honest I'm not really bothered if he doesn't like what I have to say, just basically wondering how much damage I'm likely to have done.

Also reckons that he hasn't been with child support because he only returned to work this week....this is what I'd expected he say.

Okies, I'm still hanging around these boards reading avidly as always, so I decided to update my own thread. You still there Mel? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well.....I havn't recieved any D papers as of yet, so that's keeping me kinda hopeful that D is perhaps not what H really wants and that it was all *fog* talk when he was talking of marrying OW a few months back. If it's a D he is wanting, then he is sure taking his time over things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Things have slightly improved in my sitch, in regard to H keeping up the regular visitation with D9 and paying child support, which he has paid for the past three weeks! I'm happy that he appears to be making more of an effort.

Anyway, he'd called two weeks ago to collect our daughter and I was on the way out as I needed to go to the shop for groceries. He and D9 got into his car and he watched me walk down the street until I turned the corner. When D9 came home, she told me that dad had asked her where mum had been going today? D9 had told him that I was going to the shop and H had replied,

"She is only going to the shop and she's all dressed up like that"??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HA!!! A REACTION FROM HIM..........plus he's obviously noticing how good I am looking these days!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

......and I hadn't even been all that dressed up, unless you class jeans and t-shirt, suede jacket and no makeup as being dressed up that is!

Anyway, because I got this kind of reaction from him and he'd been curious enough as to wonder where I was going alone, I decided to put it to the test again the following Sunday, which was three days ago. But this time, I did get all dressed up - trousers and top, suede jacket, makeup, hair done - the *full whack*!!!!.

H arrived and again I was all set to go out, only this time I planned on going to visit a friend. I hadn't told D9 where I was going either, knowing that she would tell her dad if she knew....you know what kids are like. LOL!! H's first words were, "I will bring D9 back at 11.30am if that is ok with you". I then replied, "Well I was kinda hoping that you would bring her home around about 1pm as I am going out". H stood there for a few seconds just looking at me, then he said,

"Where are you going"?

His asking outright where I was going, was the last thing I was expecting him to ask. Anyway I replied, "Oh, just to a friends home". He'd then asked if my car was repaired and back on the road, to which I replied no it wasn't, but that I was taking it to a garage this next week. I then grabbed my coat, put it on and gave D9 a big wave while she and H sat in his car and off I went to my friends home for an hour.

I was back before H returned and he and D9 came walking up the path 10 minutes later. To further add mystery and was this stupid of me or what...LOL...but I dialled my home number from my mobile phone number, so that my home phone would start ringing when D9 opened the front door so that H would hear it ringing. I wanted to make him wonder, who would be ringing me!

It all seemed to work a treat!! H had asked our daughter when I was out of sight, to which friends home was I going? D9 had replied that she didn't know. H had also mentioned all of the new clothes that I appeared to be wearing these days? They are not new clothes I am wearing - infact they are clothes that I have had in my wardrobe for quite sometime that I havn't worn in ages because they were too small for me - they now fit me again because I've lost a lot of weight! I figure he thinks I've bought them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
But then what has it got to do with him if I buy new clothes - does he have a problem with seeing me looking nice and stepping outdoors into the world? He's never mentioned my clothes or the fact that I am looking nice, when he knows I'm sitting in the house and going nowhere!!

While people may think I'm being stupid in doing the above to see if I get a reaction, after all my H has been gone 10 months and I'm supposed to be in PlanB........the above is something I should have been doing while I was in PlanA!!!
As well as showing H that I had moved on *emotionally*, I should have also been showing him that I was moving on in the *real world*.....and I failed to do that! I read so many times of how the LBS will pretend to be going off out somewhere/are really going off somewhere when their WS arrives to note reactions in their WS - and you know, I never did any of that.

While H is full aware that I have moved on *emotionally*, he has never witnessed any actions from me, that point to my moving on in the *real world*, and this is what he needs to see I think!!
Everytime he would call on the phone, I was always there and would answer him, everytime he visited, I was always in the home......he knew that I didn't have a *life* and he knew that I was still the *hermit* that he left behind......yep, even ten months after he left I am still a *hermit* and he knows it! I'm far too predictable!

He needs to see that I now have a *new life* without him, that I have friends, that I am going places alone.....and that I am not just stuck in the home 24/7, which is basically where I am 99% of the time and H knows it.

I dunno, perhaps he's just surprised to see me stepping out of doors, maybe I'm reading too much into it all and am living in a dream world hoping that he is actually bothered about where I am going......LOL! But when he's saying things such as, "She's only going to the shop and all *done up* like that" and he is quizzing D9 where I am going......hmmm, I dunno?? If he wasn't bothered, he wouldn't be quizzing surely?

Am I reading too much into it all?

I must be the *Queen of Very Long Posts* around here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ January 27, 2004, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

Lianne, I like it! You are still in Plan B if you not in contact and not meeting his needs. Just exchanging your daughter like that does not constitute contact. I like how you saw this opportunity and went for it. And you are right, it is important for him to see that you are moving on regardless of his actions. You must be making him crazy. Good job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LOL, that was a quick reply! Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yes, I'm still in PlanB.......there is no contact whatsoever other than when he's collecting our daughter and dropping off child support.

I took the opportunity to do this, on the occasion he will collect our daughter. I will lay off for a couple of weeks now though as it may become obvious to him what I am playing at. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />