</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by auto009988:
<strong> I will try to meet as many needs as I can and avoid LB's but right now I feel locked out of her heart. I didn't think anything could hurt worse than the A. But, being locked out of her heart so that I can't work with her to rebuild our marriage is even more painful. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, I understand exactly how you're feeling. The main difference, in my case, is that WW has already moved out, making it nearly impossible for me to meet any EN's. Not to say my situation is any worse, just slightly different. But the feelings I have...the pain of feeling "unloved" by someone that I love so much...of feeling "unwanted"...of feeling like I'm just an irritating nuisance...

Anyway, the only advice I can give is one word:

Compassion

Whatever your thoughts, whatever the situation, try to remember that word. Think about how confused she might be; about how much she might have been hurting for this to have happened.

I love my wife. I care about her happiness. Yet I'm concerned about the choices she's making. So instead of thinking how it's hurting me, I try (with moderate success) to think about what she might be going through.

That's all I can offer. It doesn't work wonders for me, but it kind of helps me divert the anger until I'm better prepared to deal with it (either calmly with WW, or not in the presence of WW).

Auto & UncomfortablyNumb,

I whole-heartedly agree with with UncomfortablyNumb suggests... Compassion! After such a long affair - there will be pain for WS no matter who they choose. I try to remember that too and even share that with my WH. I even tell my WH that I hope and pray that he finds Peace in his heart with his decision - no matter what it is - although I never hesitate to tell him that I hope and pray that his peace is ME and not her.

Along with Compassion, try to remember all the good things about your wife...the things you love... try to re-inact them... Holding onto the memories of Love between you two will also help.

Good Luck and keep posting!

Auto I know how you feel about making plans after the first of the year, last night my W and I were rearranging the living room to make room for the tree, we had to move our 55 gallon aquarium, this is something we don’t want to have to move again because it is a pain to catch the fish, drain, move and refill. So she kept asking me where I wanted it and I would ask her what she thought and she kept saying that it didn’t matter what she wanted. In other words she didn’t plan on being here to look at it anyway. I have the same questions, is she struggling with if she should leave or just when to leave. Last week she told me she was having second thoughts about going but them last night she told me she was still planning on leaving, I think she doesn’t want to stay with me but she is starting to think that maybe she doesn’t want to be with OM ether. I told her I didn’t want her to stay if she was only staying because the only other option seemed even worse, I wanted her to stay because she wants to be here and if she does stay we would have to start consoling and that she would have to have NC with OM and if she couldn’t do those things she might as well leave. I hope I didn’t make her decision to leave easier. Like you I try to meet her EN but I also know that her contact with OM continues everyday while I’m at work. I’m starting to feel like a doormat, I fill needs in the evening and during the day while I’m gone he fills them, I know this is what plan A is but it does get degrading after awhile, but like UN said I try to feel compassion for her after all she is confused too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">russkie:

"I told her I didn’t want her to stay if she was only staying because the only other option seemed even worse, I wanted her to stay because she wants to be here and if she does stay we would have to start consoling and that she would have to have NC with OM and if she couldn’t do those things she might as well leave."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well said russkie! Your WW's waffling on whether to stay or go is very common. You've got to keep in mind that unless your WW's affair is an exit type affair, she is comforted by the beleif that she'll always have the option of you taking her back. Your comments to either 'sh*t or get off the pot' shakes up that beleif to the point of her seriously questioning her decision to leave.

If you have it in you, I would suggest that you consider asking her every couple of days what date she is planning on leaving and if she's asks you why you want to know simply tell her that you want to start moving on with your life and you can't do that if she doesn't tell you exactly when she is going to be leaving. Is it risky? yes, BUT both men and women RESPECT and are ATTRACTED to someone who is emotionally strong and independent, and nothing would show her your emotional fortitude more than you telling her that you want to move on with your life. It is a splash to her face of cold, hard reality that tells her that she is NOT indispensable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I hope I didn’t make her decision to leave easier."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unless you become abusive by love busting her with angry outbursts, selfish demands and disrespectful judgements, then whatever she decides will be solely her responsibility, not yours.

Just thought I would check in and let those who have offered help and advice know how things are going. I still am doing plan A and I think I am getting better at it. No LB's for a long time. When I find her e-mailing OM or doing something else in regards to him, I let her know in a calm voice that I am badly hurt.

The holiday season is actually getting on well. We are looking forward to a few parties and activities with friends. I am much more able to act like the husband I want to be and that is really helping me cope and show her my deep love for her.

Still, she refuses to discuss anything relating to our future after 1/1/04. My imagination suspects the worse, that she is planning to leave sometime in January. But, I push that though aside and continue the plan A. I am not going to let fear of her decisions jerk me around anymore.

Oh, I finally mangaged to see a counselor for some IC. It has helped me a lot. We plan three or four more sesions where he will give me some guidlines and help in dealing with the affair. After that we will wait to see what WW decides. I hope she will decide to go to MC together.

I love her more than anything.

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]</small>

Try some of these next times she's emailing OM...

"I love you and I hate to think that I've not loved you well enough that you had to find love somewhere else. I want you to know I'm trying to show you more love." All the time giving her a hug.

Or

"I love you, you are a wonderful person and sorry I have not expressed that more. I hope I can give you more love and attention so you don't have to find it in someone else too."

Or

"I love you, you are very special to me. I am sad to see you emailing the OM because I am afraid I will lose you out of my life."


There may come the right time you can institute the Policy of Joint Agreement. Does she know about MB? You can explain to her about POJA and how it works. One person brings up a problem, the other gives a solution, and then the original person gives a solution. You either agree with one or both solutions 100% or you begin brainstorming ideas that you can both wholeheartedly agree with. If you don't come to an answer you both do nothing. My H and I have used this when we have had holiday events one wants to go to, but the other doesn't. We try to use it for anything we disagree with.

I would suggest using this with some of the simple conflicts in life, and when there is a right time, ask for a solution to the problem of her emailing OM in front of you. Or a solution to the problem of contact with the OM. It is obvious to you she needs to give him up, but she may not be ready, and she may have some creative ideas about how to end it (or keep it going). If she plans to keep this up indefinitely, then you know Plan B will be looming in the future...

Well folks we have made it through Christmas with so-so results. A couple we know invited us to share a cabin they rented in a local ski resort. Well, we don't ski so durring the day when they were off skiing, my wife and I did a bit of shopping, had a few good lunches, and snowshoed about the area. We talked about various things though I often felt I had to put more effort into starting and maintaining the conversation. It was fun and we had a nice time. At night we would cuddle together.

But, (and you know there had to be a BUT), she still won't talk about much of anything past the end of this year. So I finally wrote her a letter today and left it on her side of the bed. I politely told her that I can no longer go about the daily business as though things are normal. I told her that I am still in emotional pain that the Anti-D's only dull. I professed my love for her and my desire to build a better marriage and my willingness to do all that it takes.

As I write this she has not arrive home to read the letter. I ask your prayers for her and me, that God will lead both of us to the right path.

I have to tell you that I am very down today.

My wife read my letter, which I believe was very loving and full of care for her and our marriage.

However, her reaction remains the same. She won't talk about our marriage until after the New Year. I asked her why and she said she doesn't want to talk until the New Year. That's it. No other explaination.

This is very disturbing to me. I ask myself, "What is so special about January 2?" Nothing I can think of. We are not planning a big New Year party or anything special. Nothing that might be ruined if our discussion is upsetting.

I pour out my heart and all she can say is the same old thing she has said for the past two months! What is that all about?

I can only think of two things that are causing her behavior. #1 is that she or the OM are planning something that won't take place until after January 1. Most likely after the New Year festivities, he is going to tell his wife he is leaving her for my wife. #2 - My wife is planning on moving out, but the apartment won't be available until after the New Year starts. (It's true that most people don't want to move the last week of the year.)

So here I am with two lousy possiblities. I feel like I am being manipulated big time! Folks, I get so angry and then depressed. She doesn't seem to care that I have been left hanging for two months.

I just don't know how much longer I can take this nonsense. Everything I do to make a good plan A seems to be hitting a wall of cold ice.

It sounds like you have done a good Plan A. It is about time to consider Plan B.

I would like to add one note of encouragement. Harley says (and many WS's on this board have verified) that even though it feels to you like your Plan A is not getting through, it is. They may not acknowledge it at the time, but they DO notice. It's like a leak in a damn. When the damn breaks, you see all the damage that the leaking water had done, but was not visible from the outside.

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

J39, Thank you for your words of encouragement. I desperately need them at this time.

Since her deadline for not speaking about our marriage will soon be over, I will continue Plan A for the next several days. At least I will know that I did my best. And Plan A is actually a very good way to act during a marriage even if there are no problems. I might as well continue to develop these good habits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do however, feel so very frustrated. Partly for my own situation and also for my wife. If she continues on the path she has chosen the day will come when she will see the pain and destruction her behaviors have caused and she will have to face the fact that she intentionally chose those behaviors. I think that will be very hard for her to live with.

I love my wife very much and long for the time we can rebuild a better marriage, a much better marriage. I hope and pray that God will help us to that goal.

Plan A develops SOME good habits for marriage (and the rest of life) - in particular, avoiding lovebusters at all times. But, Plan A also involves meeting your spouse's needs without them reciprocating - which will eventually lead to divorce about 99.9% of the time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong> Plan A develops SOME good habits for marriage (and the rest of life) - in particular, avoiding lovebusters at all times. But, Plan A also involves meeting your spouse's needs without them reciprocating - which will eventually lead to divorce about 99.9% of the time. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Huh??? If plan A leads to divorce 99.9% of the time why do it? I don't understand. Are you talking about a long drawn out Plan A that the wayward spouse does not respond to and that drains the BS? Then I would agree. One can't Plan A forever.

I doubt if I will have to plan A more than another week at the most under the current conditions. We are now in the New Year and it's time for WW to talk. Whether I like what I will hear is another story. Probably not. But, I do love her so much and she still has first call on my love, my heart and my body.

If she rejects that, what the heck! I am a healthy and reasonbly bright 50 year old man. There must be at least one intelligent, charming, 45-50+ year old woman out there who will find me attractive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you talking about a long drawn out Plan A that the wayward spouse does not respond to and that drains the BS? Then I would agree. One can't Plan A forever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, exactly. A BS who stays in Plan A too long will eventually want a divorce.