Is there a time period where resentment turns into abuse? Hmm, I'm not sure if I'm wording that correctly. Allow me to clarify.

My BH has been since day 1, using my infidelity in a way to "get what he wants". If I don't do exactly what he says, he gets very very angry, holds the A over my head, and threatens divorce.

He feels I have no right to my own feelings. While I feel horrible and agree I deserve "punishment" to a certain extent, I wonder how long this will last. Again, it's only been about 2 weeks since I "came clean" so I know he's in the very very first stages, but I'm becoming more and more frustrated. I feel that the way he's treating me now is the same as how he was treating me before the A. (I am his housekeeper/laundromat/whore and nothing else) I want this to work so badly, but I know it can't/won't unless I can somehow learn to cope with his reactions.

Please can someone give me some advice? Critism is needed!!!! Tell me I screwed up and if I want it to work I need to suck it up!!! Thanks yall for reading. Looking forward to responses.

This is the manifestation of his hurt. He is angry and acting on it. Can you get to a counselor, of not both, just you?

Just curious: Did he ever call you a whore? If so, why isn't he glad that you've decided to be his whore and not some other man's? (sorry--that was caustic, but jeez!!!)

Do you want to repair your marriage out of a sense of guilt or indebtedness, or is there something between you and him that you truly cherish?

It makes me wonder if this might escalate to physical abuse, and you may not be thinking along those lines because of your guilt, but be careful. You have a lot to sort out here with you and him and I really do think you should get help. What you have in common right now is that you are hurt, lost, fallen people, but there is always hope. Take the initiative and get in counseling.

Okay we need more to work with.

How long since he discovered the affair?

How long was the affair?

How did he find out...did he catch you did you confess?

Either of you have a previous affair?

There is an early stage of rage that is all consuming and to be honest scary even for the BS.

Insanity might be overstating but its pretty darn close perhaps obsession is a better word.

I can say more when I no more of the specifics but the you can't do anything right throw divorce in your face is quite common. Understand an affair is emotionally devastating to a BS and the only emotional bomb he/she can retaliate with is the D-word.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Can you get to a counselor, of not both, just you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been going to IC and MC is the 12th, I'm just trying to make it that long.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just curious: Did he ever call you a whore? If so, why isn't he glad that you've decided to be his whore and not some other man's? (sorry--that was caustic, but jeez!!!) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In his very very first stage (RIGHT after finding out), he called me every name in the book, said every hurtful thing he could. There is not so much name calling anymore (Liar is the only one that comes up a lot, but I have to give him that one). It's just a feeling. He tells me he has no "Love feelings" for me right now and that when we're having sex it's a release of pain for him in some way but we're not "making love". Not sure what to think of that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you want to repair your marriage out of a sense of guilt or indebtedness, or is there something between you and him that you truly cherish? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the strange part. Before the A, things were not good between me and H. He has me convinced that the problems I had with him and our M were all in my head, I'm beginning to question this now though that things are feeling so the same. What made me want to reconcile was hearing him talk to his friends and my mom about me. About how much he loves me and how he trusted me 100% and that marrying me was the best day of his life.

All this was news to me. I've never heard any of those things come out of his mouth before. Hearing that he felt that way renewed my love for him and made me realize that he DOES love me. Which is ironic in a way because now that might be destroyed...

I really don't think he would ever physically harm me. I think I've seen the worst of the rage, things were broken, thrown, but he never advanced at me, he's a stronger person than that. However, my counselor has adviced me on what to do if I ever felt physically threatened.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long since he discovered the affair?

How long was the affair?

How did he find out...did he catch you did you confess?

Either of you have a previous affair?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He discovered a couple weeks ago. I initially lied, but came out honestly about 4 days later.

The EA started in October, the PA started late Nov. I ended the affair altogether the beginning of Dec.

After a period of NC, the OM emailed me (was missing me, blah blah blah). H found the email. Like I said, I was deceiving in the beginning but quickly let everything be known.

I have never been in an affair. When we were dating my H had 2, but since we were dating and so young, I don't think this affected me or my situation.

I know this is already insanely long, but I have one more thing to add. About a month before the A began, something really really bad happened to me. Someone forced themselves on me. I don't know who it was, a name, nothing. But I told my H about this. He was hurt for me, but thinks that that happening has nothing to do with my A.

Part of me says it does. I NEVER wanted the A to turn P, I didn't want it at the time. I was afraid if I said no that it would continue anyway so I let it happen (bad decision I know)

I dunno.. i'm just very unsure of what part that might play. I've only told my husband and my counselor about it (it was why I originally went to get IC) It's just hard.. I still can't even call it what it is.

It just doens't make sense that this happened to me and I was STILL able to be drawn into an A. I dunno, this is very hard for me to talk about, but if anyone has any insight it would be greatly appreciated. If anyone has anymore questions please let me know.

Just to clarify: I am NOT trying to make excuses in any way shape or form. I'm simply trying to discover all factors that might have led to the A so I can confidently say to myself and my H that this will NEVER happen again. So again, I'm not trying to make an excuse at all. Just trying to look at all aspects.

Mil

No one is saying you are making excuses because clearly you aren't.

Part of you simply wanted his friendship. He probably pressed to take it to the next level. One thing I have learned in my studies is that a scary high percentage of young teenage girls are learning to feel like they are passive participants in their sex lives. I suspect you learned that same behavior.

Its not a biological thing (though been are normally bigger, stronger and more aggressive) its more a sociological thing. Astounding the number of young teenage girls reporting having unwanted or non-voluntary sex at ages as young as 13. Even scarier is the number of 18 year old women saying they wished they would have waited before having sex (8 out of 10).

I am increasingly beginning to believe a large section of the female population is being conditioned on some level to believe they don't control their sexuality. The growing incidences of sex abuse, date rape and stranger rape is a very scary indicator. Even scarier is the wide held belief that the vast majority of rapes still go unreported. Sad that a woman would not hesitate to report someone that stole their car or broke into the home but somehow have become convinced not to report a sex related crime.

On to his behavior.....its VERY VERY early in recovery his high level of resentment and anger are QUITE normal and will continue for quite sometime....does not excuse being violent. Does not excuse being abusive but I've got to tell yelling screaming name calling and the like are nothing compared to the emotional impact discovering your spouse had an affair.

Reads these sites.

http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/tips/patternaffair.html

http://www.fca.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0%2C%2CPTID4820|CHID103348|CIID242342%2C00.html

The reaction to an affair is often more intense for a man. Numerous reasons. The male role of being a "man" adds extra shame and sense of failure for a man versus a woman. Both are painful but woman do percieve men as being the more likely to cheat so its not as surprising. Secondly men generally cheat for a superficial reason like sex or ego. Women most of the time cheat for emotional reasons. Having sex with someone is less threatening than having feelings for someone. Finally men do not normally have the same emotional support groups women do. Most men would not talk to their best male friend about their wife having an affair while most women probably would. Unfair double standard but this is what your husband is dealing with.

Full recovery takes from 2 to five years according to many experts. Its a process. He will get less and less angry. The intensity will become less and less. But it takes time and cannot be rushed. You can take actions to make sure recovery is not delayed but I don't really think you can actively speed his recovery up.

You have many things working for you. It was by most standards a short affair...he probably won't see it that way but it was a short affair.

You ended it....much better than being caught in it.

His anger and rage (as long as it does turn into abuse) is a plus....yeah I said a plus. The oppositve of love is not anger or hate but indifference. A good therapist can take his anger and channel it in a positive way....the world's best therapist can't do much with someone that no longer cares.

MilWife,
As S-D-F-R said this is relatively normal behaviour for a male BS. I am about 7 months past DDay of the PA. Early on I was battling my rage & anger. At times I felt completely out of control. I hate to say this but because of how out of control I felt it could have easily escalated to violence. Normally I am very mild mannered. I can see how men who normally have higher levels of agression than me could turn violent.
I, too, called my W the wh@#$ and sl^! words during some of my tirades.

As time goes on these "rage attacks" have started to diminish in frequency and intensity.

SDFR said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The reaction to an affair is often more intense for a man. Numerous reasons. .... Both are painful but woman do percieve men as being the more likely to cheat so its not as surprising. Secondly men generally cheat for a superficial reason like sex or ego. Women most of the time cheat for emotional reasons. Having sex with someone is less threatening than having feelings for someone....... Unfair double standard but this is what your husband is dealing with</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the book "Men are from Mars, Women......" the author talks about the differences between Men & Women. On the topic of dealing with problems ( and I think you'd agree that finding out about your wife's affair would be labeled as a major problem) men deal with problems by going to their "cave" to examen and work on them. When they are in the cave best to stear clear. But when he is ready to reingage welcome him back with open arm. Most W's don't. They punish the M for his behaviour, which is the only way he knows to deal with problems.

As SDFR said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ... men do not normally have the same emotional support groups women do. Most men would not talk to their best male friend about their wife having an affair while most women probably would. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Men don't want support groups.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The male role of being a "man" adds extra shame and sense of failure for a man versus a woman. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sharing info with a friend or support group about a W's affair would just further compound the humiliation. That's why MB is so great because it is an anonimous(sp?) support group.

and...... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His anger and rage (as long as it does turn into abuse) is a plus....yeah I said a plus. The oppositve of love is not anger or hate but indifference. A good therapist can take his anger and channel it in a positive way....the world's best therapist can't do much with someone that no longer cares.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As time goes on watch your H for signs of indifference. Personally, I waiver between moments of indifference and re-engagement with my W. Not quite sure which will win out although I'm hopeful for the latter. Good sign I guess.

Keep showing empathy. Keep trying to meet his EN's. Undersatnd if he doesn't return the favor for awhile. Try not to get frustrated and give him the "just get over it" attitude. Each time you do it takes recovery back a step. It'll make him question your love for him. I speak from experience on this one.

Ask me more question because it sounds as though I'm just a few steps ahead of your H in the process.

Good luck,

cwmac

<small>[ February 07, 2004, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Since you asked about a timetable, I will fill you in on how my situation went, Although all situations are unique.

In the end of our marriage, me and my now ex-h did weekly counseling for 9 months, then we went to twice a month. Finally, 1 year post the final DDAY (cause there were many), I divorced him.

SDFR - I can totally relate to what you are saying. I feel like that is what happened to me, or what I learned, not sure which. And you're right.. those things go unreported. I know I didn't report it. I just showered a lot, dove deep into depression and withdrew from my husband. Great way to react huh?

I know there are many "pluses" to the situation, they're just not being handled as such. Hopefully MC will help in this.

CWMAC - Thanks so much for your reply. I am trying so hard to meet his EN. Also, I've never taken a "get over it" attitude. I know that's just not realistic. I really don't think he would ever harm me, but the words are starting to get to me emotionally. I wonder if he'll always feel this way about me. There's already signs of indifference, that's why I'm worried that we wont' make it to MC.

JAZZEY - I'm so sorry you can relate, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. To answer your question, I held onto this until after the A came out. There were many reasons for me feeling that way that I won't explain here.

On a side note. H just came in, he wants to know why he can be emotionally abused, but not in turn emotionally abuse back? He wants to know why society doesn't see A's as emotional abuse. Also, he wants to know why they can't be interchanged, in his own words "why shouldn't I be able to smack the sh*t out of you?"

Ok, back to JAZZEY - We talked a lot before, like I said, almost too calmly, like we were both removed from the situation. But now it seems like since there isn't much left to talk about we just don't talk. He's never "flown off the handle". All that worries me is that he uses LB ALL the time. He doesn't see them as such, he sees them as ways to punish me, which he is. I'm not sure how to handle it. He's open to some reading I think, but not questionarres, which is my fault because I had him do the EN one with me between him finding the email, and me coming out with the whole truth, so that ruined that.

Ok I think that's all for now. Me and H will be looking forward to your replies on this one, especially to his questions. Thanks all!

Another side note. Since H was in here, he was wondering what LB's were, so I went to concepts and started going over them. He wanted to know why all of those deal with the subconscience, or habits or instincts. I wonder the same thing???? What if the LB's are conscience attempts? Attempts at what, I'm not sure. Punishment? Either way, I was just wondering. Thanks

mil

A couple of things I want you to think about....you didn't report this incident for a specific reason whether you are concious of it or not. Most don't report because it is a "learned" response.

Now the real question is what "learned" response.

Do you feel you didn't report it for internal reason? By that things you felt about you person..... "I just want it to go away" "I must have done something to cause it" "I shouldn't been in position to have this happen" "I this or I that"

Or "They will never prosecute" "They won't believe me" "It does not good to report"

Did your reasons blame you or did your reasons blame the system?

If your reasons blamed you or blamed you and the system it redflags somethings.

Not feeling like you can respond to a sexual assault more specific like any part of it is your fault is often a learned response....its not concious but it is reflected of how social structures condition many women to feel.

There is a growing body of evidence suggesting that a very large percentage of women feel some level of limited control over their body and sexuality.

The less a woman feels she has control over her sexuality the higher the probability of past sexual abuse. Indeed 62% of pregnant or parenting teens in the US were prior sex abuse victims.

If you have learned to be a sexual victim then odds are this contributed not only to your failure to report the rape but perhaps even your failure to tell the OM no.

Please read our story:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=009539

Now on to your husband....I differ on some issues more than some and its probably my bias as a betrayed spouse. I feel he has every right to call you every name in the book. To say all the hateful thoughts he feels. But only early on only when he feels like as he put "smacking the sh#t out of you"

Its a release of that anger and rage. And if you stand there with tears in your eyes its a damn quick way to humble any man if he really loves you.

Now I know that goes against what many feel. I know its not recognized as valid therapy. But in a very strange way it worked for me.

I believe he loves you but hates what you did. I believe this is the internatl struggle that tears at his very core. He can't bottle it up and hope to recover.

This outburst will in time disarm him because he sees two things...one that you are human. Do you have kids? Nothing brings you back to reality when you are angry at your child and seriously about the spank them and they look at you with those puppy dog eyes. Secondly that you do indeed have strength an inner strength to weather what he throws at you. And I believe this is a subconcious test to see if you will quit under fire. To see just how much you love him because if he can't drive you away with words then you must love him.....and right now he questions not only do you love but if you ever really did.

And if it doesn't then it is probably time for some professional intervention.

BUT ITS NEVER EVER ACCEPTABLE TO USE FORCE!

Please understand Mil that the owner of this site compares finding out about your spouse's affair to being raped. You know that feeling that trauma. Imagine now if the person that caused you that trauma was standing right before you and that person was your spouse!

See what an emotional basket case he is right now?

You were the one he trusted above all women because he married you.

Mil I am short on time but I want you to think about your past. If you know you have been sexually abused then there are some issues at play that will help your husband.

As a man he will more than likely struggle with mental pictures of you wanting to be with the OM. Its the wanting that will impact his recovery. I read alot on that subject for obvious reasons. I see alot of clues in your posts that suggest this might be the case. And if so it does impact how you felt you could or couldn't say no.

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: stunned-dad-fast recovering ]</small>

Originally posted by MilWifeFW:

Is there a time period where resentment turns into abuse?

Two weeks into this, no. Two years from now, yes. In the middle, ups and downs of resentment are normal.


My BH has been since day 1, using my infidelity in a way to "get what he wants". If I don't do exactly what he says, he gets very very angry, holds the A over my head, and threatens divorce.

And this means .... what do you think this means?

Here's what I think it means:

"I am scared."

"I feel so much anxiety."

"I feel I have no control in my own life."

" must have been my fault in some way."

"This pain is killing me, make it stop."


He feels I have no right to my own feelings.

He cannot control your feelings for another man, and this causes your H unbearable anxiety and confusion."

Your H does not believe you love him.

While I feel horrible and agree I deserve "punishment" to a certain extent, I wonder how long this will last.

You don't get to make a decison on how long your H's feelings last, just as he does not get to make a decision about your feelings. YOU are doing here what you don't like in your H. "He feels I have no right to my own feelings."

You can't timetable his feelings. All you can control is how YOU react to his outbursts, which may either increase or decrease his anxiety, depending on which way you decide to go.

Again, it's only been about 2 weeks since I "came clean" so I know he's in the very very first stages, but I'm becoming more and more frustrated.

Well, would you care to exchange your frustration with your H's heartbreak and demasculinization? Show some care and empathy.

I feel that the way he's treating me now is the same as how he was treating me before the A. (I am his housekeeper/laundromat/whore and nothing else) I want this to work so badly, but I know it can't/won't unless I can somehow learn to cope with his reactions.

And what does he feel about the way you've treated him?

This door swings both ways in this guessing game:

He might think"

"She doesn't love me. She only stays because of the mortgage/kids/financial advantage/family obligation. I have no place in her heart."


Please can someone give me some advice?

Relax.

Don't rush through this.

When you are about to say something that begins like this:

"You always ...." or "You never ...."

"You MAKE me feel...."

STOP and reframe your question....

OWN everything that comes out of your mouth...choose to feel or react in a particular way

OWN your own feelings.... they are not because of your H .... but you

Start every sentence with "I" .... and remember, you own your reactions. Your H cannot make you feel this crummy about yourself, that's what you do, not your H.




" Critism is needed!!!! Tell me I screwed up and if I want it to work I need to suck it up!!!

You were raped. That is significant. You didn't talk to your H about the rape. That too is significant.

How high is that wall around you?

Could your H feel any more left out of your heart/life?

Pep

SDFR - I feel I'm very conscious of my reasons for not reporting it. I did not by any means, want my husband to know. His sister was raped by one of his highschool football team mates. I know this had a huge effect on him. She DID report it, the guy denied it, and nothing ever happened to him. I refused to put that burden on him again. Yes, I know that there were things I could/should have done differently, but I know the fact that I had one too many drinks doesn't excuse a horrible crime. I did have some feelings initially that it was my fault, and some feelings that my husband would think me "dirty" or not want to touch me anymore (go figure - I made that happen on my own). but mainly I just didn't want him to have that burden of it happening AGAIN to someone he loves. If you could give me more info on this I'd greatly appreciate. I'd like to discuss with you futher what effect my past might have had on things. Right now I dont really see much of a connection except the fact that I KNOW I did NOT want anything physical to happen with OM. Why I let it happen? No idea. I remember even at the time thinking the words to get him to stop but they never came out of my mouth, further more, I submitted to it (because obviously something had to be done on my part as well) I still don't know why. Again, not trying to make excuses, it's just, I don't understand it. I can't help my husband until I understand it. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Pepper - I'm guessing most of your questions were retorical, but as such they did their job. I needed to hear that. I don't know what else to say besides thank you for opening my eyes.

MilWife,
How was the weekend? Better or full of signs of your H's anguish?

BTW, I'm curious. Based upon your name I assume your H is military?

cwmac

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MilWife,
How was the weekend? Better or full of signs of your H's anguish?

BTW, I'm curious. Based upon your name I assume your H is military?

cwmac </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CWMAC - Nice to hear from ya again. This weekend was better AND full of signs of H's anguish. We're communicating a lot better and talking about our feelings. Obviously though there is and will be lots of pain. He seems to have moments where he "forgets" and we're just silly together which is great.

He's been coming to the site now and reading some things, not sure if he'll ever post though.

Yeah, H is military. We're stationed in Japan right now, so far far from home. I'm not sure if that makes things better because we can concentrate on us, or worse because our support system is so far away. Either way, things are better. I go to my IC counseling on the 12th and then MC on the 26th. So we'll see how that goes!! Thanks for thinkin of us!!!