Lost Bird -

I know you are busy, but please keep us informed about what is going on. We are all quite interested. You have hung in here so long, please don't give up on us.

LostBird,

You are in great danger of losing any chance at reconciliation with your wife!
The longer you let this drag on the more distance you put between you. Is that really what you want?
A person can only hang in there so long before they realize that it is time to move on and look elsewhere for love and companionship. Life is too short to wait around forever for someone who is too cowardly to recommit to their marriage. And I'm sure your wife will come to that conclusion soon. She is certainly deserving of better treatment than you have shown her.

You have been given the chance of a lifetime to save your marriage and yet you are taking your sweet time with excuse after excuse as though this opportunity to reconcile is without time limits.

Get off your ego trip Man!! It must feel great thinking you've got 2 woman willing to fight for you. Well, guess what....sooner or later they'll both realize that you just aren't worth the pain and aggravation! And then what will you have!
A big fat NOTHING!

Spring is in the air! Your wife surely must feel it...new beginnings, the desire to feel loved, the need to feel whole again..I hope she grabs onto it and finds what she is looking for.

Lostbird, it's time to show what you're made of once and for all...show some backbone....some character...some common sense for God's sake!!!

Acknowledge the pain you have caused your W and let her know you will do whatever it takes to move forward in your relationship. NC, the way she needs it to be done is such a very small thing to ask for from you in light of how you have hurt her!!

Surely, you know what you are about to lose!
Fight for your W like you are fighting for your very life!
I guarantee you won't be disappointed!

Lostbird-
Are you still here or have you weinied out? I have a lot of hope in you. Please post soon.

Zizzy -

Still here and trying to get out of this funk, stalemate or whatever you call it. The impasse is sending the letter. That's the next step and I know it too well.

Am I over-thinking things? Suffering from paralysis by analysis? Perhaps. As frustrating as it is from here, I know it's far more painful for my W.

LB

Lostbird -

Good to see you posting again. Hang in there. You are one of the few WS's who hasn't given up on us. We need you. You seem to see both sides of the problem.

Most couples that go through something like this are glad they stayed together. It may take some time before you feel that way though. Please don't give up.

Lostbird..

Still here and trying to get out of this funk, stalemate or whatever you call it.
list me five things you have done in your "trying to get out of this funk thing...

1. any rough drafts of your no contact letter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> piled up in your garabage can or on your computer you'd like us to critque...

you KNOW don't you it's not THE letter
it's the INTENT of stopping the insanity...
your actions of NOT writing the letter speaks volumes of your intent...

and if stalling and feet dragging is NOT your intent..yet still your action..then my friend you have BIG problems that you need help with...

because that is ALL your actions say..

either your wife is worth the RISK or not...it is that simple..
no garuntees anywhere...

As frustrating as it is from here, I know it's far more painful for my W.

that comes off as such an empty off handed comment...if you believe that YOUR actions cause pain to someone else...and still you stay perched on your fence....who does your empathy serve?

So is real veiled goal to force others to decide for you...

If you are really suffering from such paralysis that you can not make basic deisions are have sought serious proffessional intervention...
because if that is the case...if you don't interrupt this cycle it will not get better..only worse...and soon deciding what color socks to wear will become a paralysing event....

call the ow with whom you claim to have limited contact and say to her...

I am sorry but this is not working....
I am need to stop talking with you
I am going to try to work things out with my wife...and holding on to both of you on the fringes is not fair...

I don't care what you say lostbird...
I am having a hard believing everything you say...if you are really only having infrequent once or twice a month phone contact she iniates in which you are short and sweet...
what's the deal with cutting this off...since it's not much right now....

according to you...
The calls are typically very short, because of my actions in keeping them quite brief and the nature of the calls fall into the category of seeing how I am doing.

Whats that song playing in the back ground I hear?...
Paul Simons fifty ways to leave your lover...
what's the ironic thing about that song playing in the background....

It's your wife that is humming that song these days....

I hope she takes not ONE IOTA of responsibility for the demise of this relationship...because you are and continue to drive it right into that ditch...all thorugh your inaction....
do you get that fact


one action
one goal
one task
one motion
one errand
one action

one thing...
time is fleeting

ARK

LB-
I recognize in your posts so many of the same thoughts and feelings that I have had in the past. It wasn't easy for me to send that NC letter, either. I even changed my mind after sending it, when the OM emailed me. I tried to do the "still just friends" thing for a short while, but I had to admit finally that I couldn't work on my marriage - give it my best shot - with the OM in the picture AT ALL. It was too painful to my H every time that I had any type of contact with him.
I remember teetering on that edge, though... in MY mind I wondered whether I had the strength to rebuild my marriage after all that I had done to destroy it. I wondered if my H could ever REALLY forgive me. I knew that it was wrong to hold on the OM... but I was afraid to make that leap. I finally made it... and I am so very glad that I did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It hasn't been that long, really since I quit contact... but I truly feel that it is final... and when I doubt, when I fear - I tell my H about what I'm feeling, and he reassures me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Now to how I did it: *DISCLAIMER* This is not MB approved procedure, but it's what worked for me. I'm not recommending it for everyone, I'm just sharing my experience.
I wrote a NC letter to the OM. It was much like the one in Dr. Harley's book. It seemed very cold to me... not at all like my usual self or the relationship that OM and I had had. OM obviously didn't think that it sounded at all like me, either, so he contacted me after receiving it. He thought that my H had forced me to write it. OM and I talked for the next week or so, since the first contact after the letter was like an alcoholic taking "just one drink". Then I was convicted while at an MB conference (I HIGHLY recommend the conference if AT ALL possible), and when I came back, without even telling my H that I was going to do it, I called the OM. I told him that I couldn't talk to him anymore, that I needed to work on my marriage and I couldn't do that with him in the picture at all. I explained it all to him... we cried... and we hung up. He knew that I was serious this time. He understood my reasons, and I knew that I had done the right thing. I told my H immediately after making the call to the OM. This was important for me to get support and instant confirmation that I had done the right thing.
I haven't heard from the OM since, and while I won't say that I haven't thought about him - I have not contacted him again. Looking back, it may have been better to have my H in on the phone conversation... but then the OM may have still thought that I was being forced to say those things, and he may have tried to contact me again. Since the day of the NC call, I have come here, and I have gone to my H for support. Once again, I say - this is not MB approved procedure for ending contact with the OM... it is simply my experience.
Do what you have to do, LB... you can't go forward until you take the next step.
We're here for you. We're waiting to back you up, to cheer you on. Your wife is waiting to do the same. Give her the chance to be there for you. It's an amazing feeling to let someone love you like that!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CW

Oh Lostbird...Are still confuse? I thought you have decided.

My WH is in the same boat as you are so i cannot give any advice to you. I know whatever i say will not work because i tired to make him see every logic, every commonsense and nothing seemed to work. WH keeps thinking each senario after another until he just cannot do anything and is stuck there in foggyland. He is still there like you.

Im only in my fifth week of Plan B and i am already feeling like giving up on my WH. Saw a lawyer the other day just to get info. I haven't really decided much yet. But imagine you wife...one year...i think u need to end her suffering...go back home...what more do you have to lose by trying?

(oops looks like this newbie needs lessons in posting).

Trying again in a few minutes

<small>[ March 14, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Take-A-Chance ]</small>

Dear Lost Bird,

For months I have been on this board as a guest, reading all the good advice that is given here by such caring people. Today, however, I finally decided to register. Becuase I want to say somethings to you. Somethings may have already been said by others, and I'll just be repeating them, but some are just mine.

Your topic really got to me. I believe my husband is probably where you are. Where is that? I'm not sure if I should call it in the cake-eating stage or if you both are just hiding the truth. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but as a BS, sometime when we see somebody acting like our WS, we gotta speak our minds. And you, Lost, sound like you're just asking for advice, but really in your heart of hearts, you do not want it.

Your topic covers 5 pages and has 68 replies now. What is it you are waiting for? Are you waiting for someone to tell you that it is OK to do nothing? Are you waiting for someone to tell you it is OK to ruin your marriage and stay with the OW? Is that why you are still here? If not, please, please let us know what the delay is all about.

You started a thread, and seemed to honestly want help. What was that all about, LB? Was that some kind of head game you played with yourself?

I’m sorry if I sound harsh, but I am curious as to what you hoped to achieve with this topic and what – if anything – you have achieved.

Here are some quotes from you about what you needed from Marriage Builders:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> breaking the addiction of an A, moving forward with the NC letter and getting my life and marriage back together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it's now coming up on a month later. This topic has lots of pages and lots of advice. What advice have you taken?

You asked for advice to end the A. Have you ended it? It would appear not.

You asked for advice to send the NC letter. Have you? Sounds like the answer is no.

You asked for advice to get your life and marriage back together. Where are you with that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have prepared the NC letter but have not sent it. I attempted NC last summer and sent the letter, only to eventually move out of the house again and eventually re-established contact with the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was your answer to a question: “What do you think is holding you back from ending the A?” Does this mean you feel you will just do the same thing again? Aren’t you, if that’s the case, just setting yourself up for failure, rather than believing that you can succeed? You will never make it with your W, LB, until you believe in your marriage and believe that ending the A is the right thing to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need some advice on dealing with this current state of paralysis, achieving some clarity in the thought process and turning intentions into concrete actions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You wrote the above on Feb. 20. You received a lot of advice on what you need to do. Have you done anything or are you still paralyzed?

I liked this quote from redhat:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A wise man once said, when you know you’re doing something good, just do it and don’t think about it, because evil will sneak in if you delay the good deed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that’s pretty to-the-point. So, is delaying allowing you to continue contact with the OW? Is the affair still going on?

You say the OW still calls you on the phone.

You maintain that there’s no affair? Wrong, LB! Contact is contact. The affair may not, today, right now, be a PA, but you know it is still an EA. If not, you wouldn’t still accept the calls and you wouldn’t still see her, even if it is once in several months.

Have you ever known anyone with a smoking or drinking problem? What happens if they stop the addictive behavior and then have just one….smoke…..one drink? They are back in the same pattern of behavior, aren’t they? Same for the addiction of the affair.

LB…..do you want your marriage? After reading start to finish on your topic, and even printing out, I am beginning to wonder. The words are there, LB but you are showing your wife and everyone here that your marriage is not as important as is the continued contact with the OW.

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, I think it is a goal to drop the OW and return to my wife, knowing I have made the correct choice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, two things: (1) You “think” it is your goal? When are you going to “know” it is your goal? (2) “knowing I have made the correct choice.” Sounds like you are looking for that magical guarantee, and none of us are given that in any aspect of life, don’t you realize that yet?

What are you afraid of? For it sounds like fear is what is keeping you in your paralysis.

You seem to react almost emotionally to some of the posts written by folks who have lost their marriage. Do you not see that someday that will be you unless you take action?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But if I didn’t care at all, I seriously doubt I would spend any time here or experience any feeling of guilt or remorse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are some people who have been here, LB, and have now disappeared, who posted over and over, seeking validation for their course of action or non-action. I have watched them. So, no, simply being here and writing doesn’t prove anything. What will prove something is when you post to us that you have sent the letter to the OW, terminating the relationship forever and ever, and that you are moving home to work on your marriage.

And as far as experiencing any feeling of guilt and remorse, well, those feelings are only of value when you do something about them. In this case, openly telling your W how you feel, and offering to taking the steps necessary to repair the damage you have done.

You answered some questions about wanting to be married, wanting to stay married to your W, wanting the OP out of your life forever, and being willing to do what is necessary to recover your marriage – answered them all with a resounding YES.

Good. But that answer was on Feb. 27. Have you taken any steps to achieve any of those four things? Share them with us if you have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I understand that the risk of losing a BS who has given up hope is very real and haunting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you really, LB? Do you really? If you actually considered that a danger, would you now by now be back with your W? You've been posting and delaying for a month, and you say you realize the risk? I'm not sure you really do.

Are you sure your W is still around? Or has she mentally and emotionally moved on while you are sitting on the fence, unable to move in one direction or the other?

When are you going to make a decision, Lost Bird? After all this time, don’t you think your W deserves better than this? If OW makes you so happy, with just an occasional phone call, then kindly end it with your W and go to the OW.

But, if you know in your heart of hearts that your W is the future that you want, then you are in grave danger of losing her. You cannot continue to waffle like this, Lost Bird. What you are communicating to your wife through your inability to make a decision is that this OW is someone you cannot imagine living without. And when your wife comes to that conclusion, believe me, she WILL move on.

Is that what you want? How much longer are you going to go on like this?

Regardless of what you want: your marriage, or if you want the OW, make a decision. Today.

<small>[ March 14, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Take-A-Chance ]</small>

Lost Bird ...

I didn't get your email nor your IM ... let me know how are you doing.

inside_hacker@yahoo.com

-rh-

Hello, Lost Bird, where are you?

I hope my post didn't anger you. I do hope you realise that by asking for help here you aren't always going to get nice, soft, comforting answers. Sometimes and some people need to tell it to you like they see it. Me for one.

Becuase I see in you so much of my WH, and if I can't help mine, maybe I can help you.

I hope we haven't lost you, Lost Bird!

Where do you go when you disappear for days? What are you doing? Are you just lost in thought? Are you struggling? If so, what is the struggle about? Is it about making a decision? I got to thinking about what your options are. I think I remember that you and your wife are not living together. So consider the following choices:

A. You live apart from your wife as you are now doing...you don't see your W and you continue to see OW.

B. You live apart from your wife as you are now doing...you see your W and OW both.

C. You live with your W and continue to see OW.

D. You live with your W and no longer are in contact with OW.

E. You live with OW and see your W occasionally (wow, would that make your wife your affair partner?)

F. You live with OW and no longer are in contact with your W.

G. You live alone and no longer have contact with OW or with your W.

Which of these options sounds most comfortable, most fulfillig to you? Picture yourself in each scenario. What sounds like the place Lost Bird wants to be? Forget what might be "right" or "wrong" but just focus on which option is the on that you really want in your life.

What's the answer, Lost Bird? Perhaps looking at these options can help point you in the direction of making your decision.

Please keep in touch with us. The people here on your topic want to help give you what you asked for.

Hope you come back.

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Take-A-Chance ]</small>

Believer, et al:

Still here. Did not have internet access over the weekend while travelling to a from a friend's funeral. Am wading through the back posts and will respond later. Thanks again to all.

Redhat -- will try the email again. Obviously, I did something wrong.

LB

Hello, Mr. LB,

Hopefully I am part of the "et al."

Look forward to your posting.

one action
one goal
one task
one motion
one errand
one action

one thing...
time is fleeting

Lostbird I am beginning to believe that potty training my two year old..is easier than getting you to make a move....
even he gets the concept to poop or get off the pot.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ARK

Lost Bird,

Have you given up on MB?

Have you given up on getting hope and help here?

Have you just...given up?

<small>[ March 21, 2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

ISG:

I have not given up on at all and refuse to do so. I have been lurking a bit and reading other posts. That and trying to figure why I can not commmunicate with any AOL email address. Another one of life's puzzles.

LB

OK, so maybe you'll respond to some of those who are looking for you and trying to help.

You really do not know how much your wife loves you do you?

I know ... because I am just like her. Different name, different face, different H, but the one thing that is the same we all love our H very much and love is love. YOU EITHER LOVER HER OR YOU DON'T!!

I will say this my H is just like you and you know what???? You have no idea what pain and hurt you have given us. We took that pain and looked hard at ourselves and our marriage and turned it around to find true love for our husbands and a stronger us.

We still love our husbands now if not even more, in some weird way that is the way it turns to. You find it... true love, the love that says I will always be there for you! It is not a feeling it is a belief in you and your partner that kind of love, it is the hardest to find, and your wife has found that and your letting it go. Remember FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

I wish you all the best in your life, it must be a sad one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> if all you have is to think about this mess. I know mine is, but I love my H and always will. That is one thing he can never take from me, my love because it is something I choose to give him and I wanted to give. Just like your wife and you are to blind to see it. How many more prayers and post will it take before it is to late and you lose her?

That and trying to figure why I can not commmunicate with any AOL email address.

Yes figuring computer techie stuff is a great distraction from doing any real things...
Lord knows recovery or the alleviating of persons pain...wife's OW...yours...should all take less priority than figuring out why one cannot communicate witn any AOL email addresses...

I am at a total loss at how to communicate with you ..lostbird...

but I know that I refuse to apply victim status to your preoccupation of indecision...

And I know that your indecision is a decision
AND I know that your indecision is a pathway of pain....and it will drag YOU down further into immobility and activity...

It only gets resolved when YOU actively participate in resolving it....


one action
one goal
one task
one motion
one errand
one action

one thing...
time is fleeting

sooo
have you.....
written sent spoken carrier pigeoned...messaged in a bottle...phoned emailed (oops forgot about that email issue.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )...sand script, cave drawings, short hand, long hand...etc etc etc..

have you done anything that propels the ending of contact with your OW??

she deserves to be free from your trap of indecision as well...

who are you serving in all of this??
two woman hanging in the wings...
all waiting for you to decide...

my my my....life is interesting......especially when one can be in the center of it....

or are you still just thinking about it...

ARK..who like many is trying to pull you out of the wake...but you just want to stay right there drowning...