Melody,

Thanks for sharing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How this thread got turned into what it did is beyond me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I saw immediately that you were simply sharing your OWN accomplishments within your life ...and subsequently your marriage. It's great to see someone that can acknowledge the area where they were lacking...and their determination to change their behavior and their success too.

Recognizing it is only half the battle...now you are putting all that knowledge to work and it appears to be paying off. Great Job!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Again, Thanks so much for sharing...it sure made me smile.

committed

TMD,

I didn't use any statistic as all. And you are right Melody and I have been here a long time, but surely not always on the same side of the issue.

Just a thought for all of you. If Melody had been a male and posted what she did about her W, would there have been any uproar?

I doubt it. IN fact most would be posting that they were glad to see she finally "got it". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess women are not allowed to "get it". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This is SOOOOOOO weird.

JL

I think it is ridiculous to state that there is no longer discrimination against women or minorities in the workplace. It is not as bad as it was 50 years ago, but it still exists, including within many branches of the federal government, where I worked for many years. As an example, just a few years ago, the committee responsible for choosing a new minister actually stated in writing that they would prefer a male, because women had "too much emotional baggage" - and this was in a liberal church in the state that voted for McGovern! How anyone can twist my statement that discrimination still exists around to accuse me of implying that women are less intelligent than men is beyond me.

MelodyLane,

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling me "dear." Such condescension is uncalled for and inappropriate. The vitriol evidenced in your attacks on those who disagreed with you in this thread makes me wonder if insecurity is at the root of your anger.

It is hardly an attack on anyone's character to state that I would hesitate to trust someone whose allegiance to a cause could be so tenuous that they would rapidly defect to the other side.

Where is the logic in the statement that members of NOW are "notorious liars," with no statistics to back up your statement. My daughter was a member of NOW; she is not a liar - perhaps that "proves" that members of NOW are not "notorious liars." Your hatred of feminists/members of NOW seems to be oddly extreme.

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

Originally posted by worthatry:
We federal, middle aged white males joke about our birth defect that prevents further advancement - a white penis.

You could get "it" tattoooouchoooed any number of colors!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Hi Mel,
Thanks for such a neat post.

I too have learned a lot since I got here - about two years ago. Marriage is such a wonderful partnership. (notice I didn't say "could be".)

The last few months I notice that some of the other gals are training to be marriage coaches. You could do that too, if you want. You are certianly good enough at this to be one. I don't know if you really understand how much good you do here, but I want to comment so that perhaps you will understand a little better.

You are good at it, and you are consistant too, and that is hard to do.

Thanks, and we are still waiting for that picture of helmet hair. Both Ark, and I - and maybe more that I don't know of.

And for everyone else, this thread is mild, I could point you to one that ...................

SS

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong> I think it is ridiculous to state that there is no longer discrimination against women or minorities in the workplace. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saying that you don't trust anyone who has changed their views is ILLOGICAL and doesn't serve to support your opinion - or credibility. It is an ad hominem argument. Evolving views are a sign of MATURITY.

On the other hand, it might be argued that one whose outlook doesn't grow and evolve as they mature is probably profoundly immature. And I see some viewpoints here that are profoundly immature and stuck in the "heady days" of the rebellious 60's. Most have evolved beyond that nonsense.

No one stated that there is no more "discrimination" in the workplace. There is discrimination against women, men, blacks, Hispanics, etc. The difference is many of those groups don't whine about it incessantly and use it as an excuse to fail. There are just a handful of women who still do this.

The difference between you and I is that I know that women are not so stupid and weak that they would allow such a thing to stand in the way of success. Show me a woman who can't cut it in today's marketplace, and I will show you a LOSER who can't take accountability for her own shortcomings. And I refuse to believe that women are losers.

We are not weak and stupid and dependent on men to hand us something as some here would have us believe.

How insulting to a REAL FEMINIST who, instead of whining about her poor lot in life and pandering undeserved sympathy, worked up way up the ladder. I was taught I was capable - not that my success, or lack thereof, was contingent upon what some man gave me.

See, I didn't know I was supposed to whine and cry and expect something to be handed to me. I was busy working my butt off and proving myself. I was promoted BY those evil ole discriminating MEN!

Sorry, but I have no respect or sympathy for any woman who is so weak and stupid that she would let anything stop her in a job market that is full of opportunities for women.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> *Nellie 1*

Aren't men just great !

Don't you just love how unfeminine men are?


Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, Pep, I WILL ADMIT IT FOR HER!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Men are so cute and handsome! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am not sure what about all this fires melody up, but she surely is...that much I can see

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> TMD "Why does she have such a problem with people disagreeing with her? The nerve of some people actually having their own point of view."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ummmm, and is it ok if I disagree with them??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Blessed TIME:


JL and Ark, I know you and Melody are good friends and go way back on this board.

Had she been a 'newer poster', you would have probably commented on her 14 posts, many of which were very negative towards anyone's opinions or views that were in anyway different than her own. (Look how she blasted Nellie!)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Julee, awww, I betcha Nellie can handle it, she is a big girl. She can take what she dishes out.

JL and Ark have never hesitated to disagree with me and they certainly are not a mindless cheerleading squad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking:
<strong> I don't know if you really understand how much good you do here, but I want to comment so that perhaps you will understand a little better.

You are good at it, and you are consistant too, and that is hard to do.

Thanks, and we are still waiting for that picture of helmet hair. Both Ark, and I - and maybe more that I don't know of.


SS </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SS, thank you so much, that means alot to me coming from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just for that, I will show you my helmet hair. Just don't show anyone, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


http://www.revelationwebsite.co.uk/index1/evil/vanimpe.jpg

1,000 pardons, Mel?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>You could get "it" tattoooouchoooed any number of colors!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep - ya know? I was considering this, but due to another motivation. Sorta an advertising campaign for some local business. Tell me what you think? A tatoo that reads, "Eat at Joe's" when, er, "it's" not, er, "robust." And when it is, it reads, "Eat at Joe's, Washington, District of Columbia."

WAT

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Good grief....Charlie Brown <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It's not that you disagree it's the condescending and self righteous way you do it it's no wonder you've been married three times!

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: TMD ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>

I have a lot more to say as people are now starting to tread into my area's of interest. But, I really wanted to wish you the best Melody, and to thank you for posting something that was NOT bashing someone one or that didn't deal with pain and loss but success.

God Bless,

JL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL, thanks for your very astute points and support. I too am just shocked that my post could be twisted into something so sick and ugly. As you asked, would we see this same response if it were a MAN talking about treating a woman with love and respect? No. We had such a thread 3 weeks ago where someone posted a letter from a H who saw the value in treating his wife well and how happy it made her. No one said anything but "great post!" There was nothing about the abuse that women heap on men, etc, etc.

I know that this warped double standard still exists out there, but it's so shocking to see it in all its stark ugliness in a forum that is pro-marriage, pro-women and pro-men.

How very disappointing that men have to come here and endure this. How sad that thinking people have to tolerate this treatment for merely suggesting that we treat our husbands with respect.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TMD:
<strong> It's not that you disagree it's the condescending and self righteous way you do it it's no wonder you've been married three times! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Feeling a little catty today? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I read this post... but didn't post my thoughts... I think JL was the last poster @ the time I read it...

WHUH!

I NEVER expected to return to????

MelodyLane, I feel much like you do... mine was more of a 'control' issue than a feminist issue... I had watched my mother under the thumb of her third husband and SWORE I would NEVER go there...

Hey? You know... it doesn't matter if it the woman doing the demeaning... or the man... either is wrong...

btw... a woman should ONLY submit to a man who loves her as he loves Christ or the church... that is the scripture... so many people get stuck on the "a woman should submit to her husband" and never read or UNDERSTAND the WHOLE of the scripture...

If your man is NOT loving you... taking care of you... etc. etc. if he is abusing you there is NO WAY you should be submitting... ESPECIALLY to mistreatment... AND vice versa... why should a man stay w/ a woman who is demeaning or makes him feel less than... NO ONE SHOULD...

BUT, I am absolutely sure that MelodyLane is talking about a HEALTHY relationship...

in a HEALTHY relationship there is give and take... and how many BUSINESSES survive w/out ONE person @ the top who makes the TOUGH decisions? Maybe... the decisions are divided... I know my H defers to me on important stuff like which brand and model of appliance to buy... and, I defer to him on the make and model of car... some decisions we POJA... it's all about what you decide you can live with...

but the name of the game is HEALTHY RESPECT... isn't it Melody...

...and what a KICK it is to see my H PUFF up when I defer to him... when he takes the lead and I don't try to wrest it from him...

Cali

Actually, sufdb did say,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">any company that discriminates against women goes out business remarkably fast....all the discriminators died long ago.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That sure sounds to me like he thinks there is no longer discrimination against women in the workplace.

Once again, MelodyLane, you are twisting my words around to suit your purposes. I did not say that I would not trust someone whose views "evolved" - I said specifically that I would not trust someone whose views rapidly shifted 180 degrees - that is hardly evolving. One would assume that a rapid shift did not involve careful consideration and analysis of the subject at hand.

As far as I can tell, no one in the entire thread has said there is anything bad about loving or respecting your spouse, of either sex, and yet you keep harping on that.

I don't understand your apparent overwhelming anger at feminists, particularly members of NOW. If you don't like NOW's platforms, no one is forcing you to join their organization. Why on earth does it matter to you whether other women think they are being discriminated against? Their complaints don't seem to be hurting your career advancement at all, so why is this so important to you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie1:
[QB]

Once again, MelodyLane, you are twisting my words around to suit your purposes. I did not say that I would not trust someone whose views "evolved" - I said specifically that I would not trust someone whose views rapidly shifted 180 degrees - that is hardly evolving. One would assume that a rapid shift did not involve careful consideration and analysis of the subject at hand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You specifically referred to me so no, I am not twisting your words at all. Changing one's views over a period of years is hardly a "rapid shift," as described by you. And you shouldn't assume anything. The value of one's views are contingent upon the merit of such views, not the speed by which they came to fruition.

Trying to dismiss my views by describing them as a "rapid change" was an ad hom argument that lacked any logic or reason.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't understand your apparent overwhelming anger at feminists, particularly members of NOW. If you don't like NOW's platforms, no one is forcing you to join their organization.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't have anger at real feminists, I am one, just at frauds like NOW, who simply pimp women as victims in order to pander some undeserved political power. You should be angry too. They do nothing but hurt thinking, independent women in their craven grasp for political power. Women are nothing more than props to them. The NOW has long ceased to be anything more than an embarrassment to thinking, capable women everywhere.

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>