I posted part of this on my normal thread, but need help fast and not sure how many read it:

I'm in Plan B--had been dark for 3 days (it's try #2). Broke darkness--here's the problem.
-----------------------------------------------

First, we spoke. He called my cell about 11:45am. I ignored it. He didn't leave a message. He then called my work phone at 11:50am. I could tell from the phone ID that he was calling from his shop. This was BAD, because he was to have DD picked up 10 minutes later and it's at least a 20 minute drive.

I had to answer because I needed to know if I had to change plans and go get her.

Conversation as best I remember:

Him: Am I still picking up DD?
Me: Yes.
(long pause)
Him: Beth called (his sister).
Me: And?
Him: Dad has prostate cancer.
(me gasping in shock)
Me: When does he have surgery?
Him: March 18th.
Me: At least this kind is very survivable if it's caught early.
Him: Whatever. Bye.
(click)
-----------------------------------------------
Now, bigger problem. Plan B is NOT working the way it's supposed to (I don't think). He spoke with my DD on the way home from school. She just called me.

Two issues:
1) She wants to move in with him. He is agreeing with her that I'm being way too harsh with her and "punishing" her every other day. (I'm not, I'm restricting her going out all the time). This would be her choice. She's 14. I'm losing everything.

2) He told her that my lack of contact with him is making his decision of who he want's to be with MUCH easier. Because of my imposed N/C with him and my coldness when I do talk to him (I'm obviously LBing even when I don't mean to) combined with OW being very responsive and caring, his choice will most likely be her. Finally, he told DD that his apartment is too small and the walls are paper thin, and that he's moving soon to a bigger place.

This clinches it. He's moving in with OW. I blew it because when he was starting to take risks and warm up to me, that's when I imposed my Plan B. Now it appears I could easily lose my DD to him, lose him to OW, and lose my FIL to cancer (while not being able to see them because I'll no longer be a part of the family if WH and OW pair up).

I'm physically nearly unable to work right now. I am really regretting not trying harder to do a longer Plan A. I didn't have enough love built up and there was nothing for him to go on. He sees no reason to come back.

I want to call him SO bad to find out what is going on. But I can't. Plan B. It's ruining me right now. Not comforting. Scaring me to death!

LL

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

First of all CALM DOWN! RELAX!
Second of all.
Looking from the outside in, you aren't LOSING ANYTHING.. HE IS! He is using your daughter to get a REACTION out of you! He is telling her things that a parent should not be telling a 14yr old about DECISIONS of which woman he will chose, that is totally inappropriate.
He knows hearing about him getting a bigger place will make you scared and REACT and call him to QUESTION him about his ACTIONS/WORDS....DO NOT REACT, you will be giving him what he wants! STAY DARK!
His rude response to you of "whatever, bye" was his anger. His anger that you are not willing to do his dance anymore. DO NOT REACT! As far as daughter moving in with him. That is YOUR CHOICE, not daughters, she is 14yrs old, not 18! Setting boundaries for children is a necessity, if she doesn't like it TOO BAD! I don't like having to chose between a DONUT and a HEALTHY SALAD but the salads a necessity for my health! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>

LL, Plan B hasn't had a chance to work because you aren't in Plan B. You have to be IN it for it not to work. I dont think you have ever put more than 3 days together of Plan B so it can't be said that you have ever done it.

Secondly, your H is not a fit parent so I can't imagine that you would even consider letting her go into a unfit environment. He is a practicing alcoholic who is shacking up with an even less fit adult. You don't send a 14 year old child in such an environment. As her parent, it is your obligation to PROTECT HER, not to let her leave when the rules get too tough for her.

Tell your daughter no and quit manufacturing crisises as an excuse to break Plan B. Be an adult - you are the only one left in the family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

2) He told her that my lack of contact with him is making his decision of who he want's to be with MUCH easier. Because of my imposed N/C with him and my coldness when I do talk to him (I'm obviously LBing even when I don't mean to) combined with OW being very responsive and caring, his choice will most likely be her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lol, so what was his excuse for being with her when you were IN contact?? lol! You have been in contact with him the ENTIRE TIME and he has been involved with the OW the ENTIRE TIME. So it looks like it really doesn't matter, does it?

I find it more than a little sick that he shared this with a 14 year old child, LL. I would just ignore the ranting and raving of an insane man.

HE is running scared and just trying to bully you into being his lackey again. Don't let him play you, LL.

Thank goodness you are there Melody.

I have been dark since the phone call this morning. Only reason I took it initially was because I knew he was still at the shop and if he wasn't going to get DD, then she didn't have a ride. You're right--I AM the only parent right now and I thought I was going to need to change my work schedule and rush out and get her.

I can have her at my place right now. However, if it ends in D (which is what I'm thinking is happening), unfortunately, SHE can chose at 14 which parent she wants to live with. The state allows her to, unless I could really prove just how unfit he is, and I'm not sure I can.

Is this how Plan B is supposed to work? Is he supposed to be totally done with me? I was hoping he was missing me like I'm missing him. Actually sounds like it's working better for him than for me. It's taking the pressure off him.

I won't call him back today. Can I call his FIL or step-MIL and talk to them about FIL's health issue? Or should I stay away from the whole deal?

Why can't my life just go normal, without extra crises, when I'm trying to get it back together with Plan B???

LL

Hi LL,
I agree. He's yanking your chain. They'd be insane to let dd live with your H and your dd will see that at some point, too.

She'll be mad and pouty for a while cause I'm sure dad would turn her loose and let her do anything she wanted, but so what? If the world ended everytime a 14yo girl didnt get her way, well... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You cant let that happen.

Just because he said he was moving to another place doesnt mean he's moving in with OW, does it? And that takes some effort, he may just be blowing steam.

I might resend him the plan b letter. Tell him you'd love to be a real family again if he's ready. Take care - Dru

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
[QB] Thank goodness you are there Melody.

I have been dark since the phone call this morning. Only reason I took it initially was because I knew he was still at the shop and if he wasn't going to get DD, then she didn't have a ride. You're right--I AM the only parent right now and I thought I was going to need to change my work schedule and rush out and get her.

I can have her at my place right now. However, if it ends in D (which is what I'm thinking is happening), unfortunately, SHE can chose at 14 which parent she wants to live with. The state allows her to, unless I could really prove just how unfit he is, and I'm not sure I can.

Is this how Plan B is supposed to work? Is he supposed to be totally done with me? I was hoping he was missing me like I'm missing him. Actually sounds like it's working better for him than for me. It's taking the pressure off him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What ARE you talking about?? How can he miss you when you won't cut off contact? Usually the WS gets angry when he sees that he can't manipulate the BS anymore. If you seriously go into Plan B he will probably be angry and try to guilt you into occasional contact again.

As far as your daughter, what might happen in a future D case is irrelevent. You can't use that as an excuse to forgo your duties as a parent. Even so, judges don't send 14 year olds into unfit environments.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I won't call him back today. Can I call his FIL or step-MIL and talk to them about FIL's health issue? Or should I stay away from the whole deal?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you mean you won't call him back "TODAY?" What about tomorrow? Are you in Plan B or not? That is not a plan that you work on Tuesday and Thursday and throw in the dump on Friday and Saturday. It has be done CONSISTENTLY with a full committment or it is a waste of time.

There is no reason you can't call your FIL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why can't my life just go normal, without extra crises, when I'm trying to get it back together with Plan B???

LL</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What crisises are you talking about? There is no crisis here and no excuse to break Plan B.

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

You can call the inlaws but keep the talk ONLY ABOUT FIL's health.
And how can you say that you don't think you can prove that he is an unfit to raise your child alone. He is an ALCOHOLIC that is drinking again!
There are not too many judges that will say a 14yr. girl should live with her alcoholic father.

Just because he said he was moving to another place doesnt mean he's moving in with OW, does it? And that takes some effort, he may just be blowing steam.

No effort to do either that I can see (move to a bigger place OR move in with OW). His current apt is furnished--so no furniture to move to new place. Only clothes and personal items.

OW currently lives with two married friends. They'd LOVE to have her and her baby move to a new place, and get their own lives back, I'm sure.

I don't think he's blowing steam. My gut really does say he's done this time, and will blame the entire failure of the relationship on my walking out on him.

LL

LL, I know that feeling. That is how I feel. But we got to be strong, right? Let me pray for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>
I don't think he's blowing steam. My gut really does say he's done this time, and will blame the entire failure of the relationship on my walking out on him.

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he will blame you, that is the nature of a childish alcoholic. The truth is that you have no control over who he blames.
He will blame you for his choice to have an affair and his choice to drink. Typical irresponsible, blameshifting alcoholic.

As far as the relationship being "done," I would predict that you are probably correct if you can't even take the minimal steps, such as Plan B, to help your marriage. I would guess that you are probably right if it continues in this direction because he has absolutely NO MOTIVATION to end his affair or stop drinking.

LL you are going into a pity party.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't think he's blowing steam. My gut really does say he's done this time, and will blame the entire failure of the relationship on my walking out on him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he moved out then how did you walk out on him? He left the marriage when he began drinking and having the affair.
Are you saying that you should have never stood up for yourself while your H is having an affair and drinking again? That you should let his destructive behavior continue at home with your daughter watching this go on? She is 14 and needs a ROLE MODEL in the home!
LL, I think you ought to read again what PLAN B is.

Melody,

What do you mean you won't call him back "TODAY?"

No hidden meaning behind that one. I just meant even though I'm going stark-raving mad right now, I am not going to call him. I wasn't meaning I wouldn't call today, but would wait until tomorrow or anything.

Even so, judges don't send 14 year olds into unfit environments.

It's the proving it that would be difficult. I'd have to call his friends to the carpet and I'm not sure they'd rat him out. No other way to prove.

What crisises are you talking about?

Why does a major health problem have to crop up with in-laws in the middle of my trying to be dark from WH? Why does DD need to scare the crap out of me by telling me she chooses to live with WH, when losing everything (him and kids) is one of my biggest fears.

I know we all have problems in our lives. I just feel like I've really been whacked - WH's affair, DD rebellious/in trouble/wanting to leave me, paying for S's college with the current financial mess, my father's progressively worse dementia, mom's gambling their money away, and my job requiring a LOT more hours than I'm physically and emotionally capable of giving right now.

I keep praying things will settle down, and they just seem to get worse and worse.

Trying2_4give,

If he moved out then how did you walk out on him?

I forced him to lease the apartment. He wasn't ready to "officially" move out of the house to his own place. However, he was staying away most nights for the entire night. He said he needed space--I forced the apartment deal.

LL you are going into a pity party.

You are correct. I am psyching myself out. I'm feeling sick again over my marriage failure--physically sick, and terrified. I am hating myself right now for my utter lack of faith. And as I've explained in earlier posts, this all comes very easily because I have had problems with anxiety for years and Dr. has diagnosed as "generalized anxiety disorder". Even when things are good, I can be sick with worry--over nothing. When things really do happen, it's my nature (and something I hate) to always assume the negative. I wish I had a friend or two I could just call or hang out with tonight, but I don't (not to mention, I'll be here at the office for another several hours).

I can't really describe the feeling except it's like being in a very deep pit and not being able to see a way to safety.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
[QB]

Even so, judges don't send 14 year olds into unfit environments.

It's the proving it that would be difficult. I'd have to call his friends to the carpet and I'm not sure they'd rat him out. No other way to prove. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not in divorce court, LL. You are the custodial parent. Take control of the situation. It's your job.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What crisises are you talking about?

Why does a major health problem have to crop up with in-laws in the middle of my trying to be dark from WH? Why does DD need to scare the crap out of me by telling me she chooses to live with WH, when losing everything (him and kids) is one of my biggest fears. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, the crisis is your overreaction to EVERYTHING. That is the real crisis here. People getting cancer and bratty teenagers are a normal part of life. It doesn't mean you break no contact. Your DD should be scared OF YOU. Be a parent. You are looking for diversions here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I keep praying things will settle down, and they just seem to get worse and worse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, your REACTION to them seems to get worse and worse. Things are bad enough in your life without your having to blow everything out of proportion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I forced him to lease the apartment. He wasn't ready to "officially" move out of the house to his own place. However, he was staying away most nights for the entire night. He said he needed space--I forced the apartment deal.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't remember it that way at all. In fact, I seem to remember that you were quite alarmed when he proposed the idea. Even so, you didn't 'force" him to do anything against his will. He was already moved out anyway.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, he left YOU!

And if it makes you feel better to talk with him, by all means...set up a chair in the middle of the floor and speak your peace, it's all he'll hear anyway, but it will definitely help you.

Have you seen the movie "She-Devil" with Rosanne Barr? Rent it this weekend. The DD asking to live with Loving Dad reminded me of that...what a damper on the romance that will be, and what a quick awakening it will be. You don't think she'll LB all over his butt, both OW and DD? Two hormonal girls after him...he'll run back to you for an escape.

Remember, OW's will LB, they don't come here to find out what a lovebank drainer it is. That coldness and anger you hear in his voice? Probably anger and apathy towards the OW nad his situation...and guilt, and knowing he has to make some tough decisions to make things right, and not knowing how to do it, and how dare you for making him change...boo hoo hoo.

Don't take it!!

You are better than all this!!! You are EXTREMELY competent in your job, and a WONDERFUL wife (heck, you've had to be).

OK, LL, put on your thick skin, because I am going to be brutally honest, and I am also going to cyber-smack the sh** out of you.

What the he** are you doing??? Haven't you ever heard of voice mail??? To be honest, I stopped reading this thread as soon as I read that you said, "I had to answer the phone." Bullsh**! VOICEMAIL!!!

I am telling you, as someone looking at your life from the outside, you have watched too many soap operas. Good grief.

He is so manipulating you! HE can probably predict your reactions better than you can predict his.

What happened to our plan? Our laughing and snickering? You didn't even let him leave you a message!

Stop looking for reasons to do whatever selfish and self-serving behavior you want to do. You need to be thinking about your kids first, yourself second, and your alcoholic WH LAST! You are all of your entire family's only hope.

You are dropping the ball. You are acting as childish as he is. If you cannot follow the advice you ask for, what do you expect?

These people have all been there, done that. It is NOT ROCKET SURGERY!

Didn't you hear me when I told you that earlier? You didn't even make it to the hardest part, the weekend!

We cannot do this for you. We can assist, support, guide, advise.

You have to do it. If you don't, you will not regain control over your life. You will live in this hell for years more. And so will your kids.

Your kids. Your kids. Your kids. I would cut off my hand rather than seriously think my alcoholic WH was going to get custody of my 14 year old daughter, living with his girlfriend!!!

He would have to step over my dead body first. Then he would have to survive all the Indiana Jones booby traps I set for him. Then he would have to find a priest to exorcise my vengful spirit out of his head and house!!!! Are you understanding how unacceptable that is???????

Oh, you bet your booty you can stop him. Have you even me with an attorney yet? Have you lined your ducks up in a row? Being the woman, you pretty much get the house and kids. Especially with his alcohol history.

Where is your mama bear instinct? Where is your righteous anger? In your picture I see a competent, put-together woman.

Go to Alanon and educate yourself. Please do something.

SS

SS, you are good. I need something like this.

SS,

If you didn't cyper-slap the s*** out of me, I wouldn't feel like my post was worth posting. I know what I need. I need all you guys to keep at me and keep at me. I have thick skin, and also a very think skull. Please don't go away. I know I'm a pain in everyone's hindquarters, but I really, really need all of you. If you weren't there I'd be doing even more stupid things.

"I had to answer the phone." Bullsh**! VOICEMAIL!!!

Stand corrected. I didn't HAVE to answer it. I panicked. I remember saying this pick up thing on Friday noon would be tricky because he's not reliable. I was leaving in just a few minutes for a noon lunch with my dept, and wanted to be able to go peacefully and know she was not stranded somewhere. If he hadn't have left a voice message (and he didn't on the cell), I wouldn't have known even where to start looking when I got back to the office at 1:30 if I called home and she wasn't there. Where she goes from home is one thing, but I at least want to know she made it there first.

Maybe somehow I'll have to do both the 10am drops and the noon pickups. It's just very hard for me to do this because my office is 1/2 hour away from her school and from our home.

We cannot do this for you. We can assist, support, guide, advise.

And I need a lot of this. I feel like I'm really taking up a disproportionate share of everyone's time, which adds to my guilt complex.

You didn't even make it to the hardest part, the weekend!

Believe me, I'm NOT looking forward to the weekend. At least though, I don't have to worry about him being responsible for the kids over the weekend, so there really is no need to pick up any calls he might make, though I seriously doubt he'll make any.

Oh, you bet your booty you can stop him. Have you even me with an attorney yet?

No, I haven't. Thought about it, but have been praying there wasn't a need. Didn't want to talk divorce. (He will also come out smelling like a rose in a D, by the way. 1/2 the equity in the house, so I'd have to pay him out if I wanted to keep it, and 1/2 of my retirement plan which is a decent sum of money, because it's all been put in since we married (mostly by my company) and he doesn't have a plan at all. I did find this out through an attorney I spoke with briefly on the phone through our EAP.)

In your picture I see a competent, put-together woman.

That was before life with my H fell apart. And pictures lie.

I really do hate that I take bad things and just worry myself into stupidity and make them worse. That's one of the things my IC is working hard with me on, and he actually thought I'd made some progress since 3 months ago. It's taken 38 years to get me this way. I have a feeling healing won't come overnight.

L&H,

Yes, SS does have some great advice. All the people who post to you and me do!! Like I said, I do believe I was sort of directed here by God. I'm just afraid I'll tick off enough people with my stupidity that they'll run away, too.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
<strong> OK, LL, put on your thick skin, because I am going to be brutally honest, and I am also going to cyber-smack the sh** out of you.

What the he** are you doing??? Haven't you ever heard of voice mail??? To be honest, I stopped reading this thread as soon as I read that you said, "I had to answer the phone." Bullsh**! VOICEMAIL!!!

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dang, I like her!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Okay, so should I resend Plan B letter to him again with a note that says "please read this again. I want to be certain you understand my reasons for asking for no contact."

And then I could add a note saying I'll take care of noon DD pickups from here on out? I saw it as a way to delegate some of the things I can't handle to her dad (didn't seem that difficult because he has to be sober at work and it gave him a few minutes with her) but obviously it is a big deal. I can't have him still calling me from his shop 10 minutes to pick up time. He was obviously late getting her today. How late will he be next time, or will he remember? Like I said, it's not every Friday. She has the next 2 off school, so he's not up again for 3 weeks.

LL