Sorry folks, get ready for one of my vents. Once again I was woken by H in the middle of the night because he was panicking and crying. He had 2 nightmares. In the one he's at work and can't find the checks to pay the bills. OW is there but isn't working for him. He asks her where the ckecks are and she says to ask the person he almost hired in reality. In the 2nd dream he's running around his business looking for his coat, which he can't find.

Throughout the night, before and after these dreams I was comforting him. Frankly I'm comforted out. He told me this morning how extremely unhappy he is. He said he's having trouble letting go of the feelings he felt for OW because he's afraid he might never feel that way again. He has kept to the NC. I told him it's only been 3 weeks, and he was screwing her once a week, is it any wonder he's missing her? Then I just felt this Fing anger. I don't think I LBed him, although some of you will think what I said were DJs. He actually told me to keep talking because he wanted to hear my perspective.

I pointed out to him that way before the A he would tell me things OW said, such as: She likes and gets along with men much better than women. Also he would tell me how she would flirt with all the men she was in contact with. This is something I just remembered recently. I pointed out the difference between fluff love and deep love. When he asked what the difference is I said, "Fluff love is the way she stroked your ego. Telling you constantly how great you are. How honest. C'mon, you were betraying your wife and children, but you were so honest. It's encouraging you to leave your wife and children." I'm sure I said more than that. I told him deep love is me, laying beside him, comforting him, sticking by him, trying to keep him from making the worst mistake of his life, after he betrayed and caused me more pain then anyone I know. I told him I am containing my pain. He said I don't have to do that, and what can he do for me? I said until he gets over this withdrawal, turns towards our marriage, starts kicking in, and realizes what he has with me, there ain't nothing he can do. And hopefully I can stick it out while he's getting his SH%% together. He actually semi-suggested a separation so he can figure things out. I told him forget it. Within a week he'd be calling OW. He just has to go through these feelings.

The thing is I'm sick of him, and I'm sick of his feelings. I feel such rage that he was banging her at least once a week, sharing his friggin LOVE feelings, while i was the big loser at home since last April or May. I said am I going to find out soon that you were having sex since April? Can you hear me BANGING these computer keys?

I feel like I have waisted so much time with this man. I am losing hope that we can ever recover. Should I just cut him lose and tell him to go live his fantasy? Or is this just the pain of withdrawal that I need to put up with? I just can't stand him right now. Because he ended his A in the fantasy stage he's stuck in the fantasy. I don't know if he'll ever get clear, and I know I can't live with the fantasy. Let me know your thoughts! Thanks CV

Yikes - hang in there. Are you two doing some fun things together? Time to build some new memories. Also he might see doctor for some anti-D's. Will he do that?

CV -

I think you are venting. I think you already know the answers to your questions. You are emotionally drained, taxed beyond belief.

And it is infuriating to have the one who is supposed to support you, who has inflicted all this pain, sitting over there feeling sorry for his pathetic self! I can only imagine.

My WH says the dumbest things to me. And I just smile and nod and tell him I understand. I don't! I want to projectile vomit in his face!

BUT, in TIME, you will get all you deserve and more. When he is capable, you will be rewarded.

When WH went to Korea for a year, and left me with two babies and very little money, I felt panicked. What got me though was to realize that in 2 years, or 5 years, it was all going to be a distant memory, and my life would be different. Better.

That is what gives me comfort now. It will not always be like this. You only have to do this for a finite amount of time.

He is following the script right down to the letter. It is a process - as a therapist you understand that.

He has to go through each stage, to recover himself properly. And he will. Just like an alcoholic going through DT's. They know the alcohol is poison to them, but they crave it anyway.

Try and think of different ways to find some compassion for him each day. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone messes up in this life. Treat him the way you would hope to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot.

These are things I try and do. And good job nixing the moving out! Excellent.

When/if I ever get to where you are, you will have to talk me down, too, K? Because I know all this stuff is going to pi** me off, too!

Lots of love and support and hugs!

SS

CV55

I know it is hard to believe, but I had this same exact thing with my WH. He came home for six weeks and we went through the same thing. He was only screwing her once or twice a week, but for 4 months before I found out. She wrote him all kinds of fluffy letters how he made her feel so good about herself and how she loved him. He was honest and wonderful. How she knew he said he wasn't sure he wanted out of what he was in (our M) but somehow their paths crossed for a reason and it was because they were meant to be. I know your anger, because the HW is a flirt and does this kind of stuff behind WH back even to this day. Of course he fell for all of this and left his family for her. We are in Plan B now. I know all about your anger and wanting to give up. There were so many times when he was here during those six weeks that I wanted to just smash his face in for moping around looking dead every day. All I can say is be stronger than I was, keep up the good work.

NY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

H is getting ready to go to work. He knows I'm upset this morning so I've been staying away from him. A short while ago I asked him if there was something he wanted to tell me. He said he is having a tremendous urge to call her. Great! I want to Fing give up. Throw in the towel. I can't be with him 24/7. I can't stand this. Maybe he is so IN-LOVE they should be together. I hate him for this. So I told him if he contacts her that's it. I asked what I can do? He asked if he could call me if he wants to call her.

I am afraid this withdrawal will never end. It's just going to go on, and on, and on. My heart feels like it's breaking today. All for a lousy slime bag H. CV

After I wrote the above post I found 2 recent pictures of our boys. Before he left for work I gave him the pictures. I said that if he gets the urge to call her look at your boys. If you don't care about my pain, think about what you will be doing to them. He thanked me and then we hugged for at leat 3 minutes, while I cried. He told me it helped him to tell me he wanted to call her. It lessened his urge. He also said he wants to work on the marriage. We'll see! I told him he needs to fight the fantasy and start to turn towards us before I give up and he loses everything. I said, "I am trying to keep you from making the biggest mistake of your life." He told me he knows that.

No wonder I seem incapable of getting anything done around here. I'm a basket case. Staying up with him almost every night. Doling out most of the comfort. I'd love to visit Hs partner in Fla., but can't because it would be too dangerous of a time to leave him. Yeh, isn't this just too much fun ladies? Someone several months ago told me that between the ages of 49 and 51 are the jubilee years. Supposed to be great! Well, I just turned 49 and I'm waiting for the friggin jubilee to start. Cause if this is it, I think I'd have more fun having a colonoscopy without the anaesthesia. He wants to call the "B" after I told him she's bad mouthing him in a beauty salon. He can't even believe that. Also doesn't believe the guy he knows saw them enter the hotel room together. The ex-partner is just lying about all of this. God forbid OW might not be the perfect little fantasy he's created.

I have to write some more. I am feeling so hopeless. H called me a half hour ago so he wouldn't call her. He says he thinks about her constantly, even when he wakes up in the middle of the night. He told me another detail on the phone. he was attracted to her at least a year before the A started. That would have been when our marriage was doing well.

I feel so sick inside today. I don't want to live in this constant state of anxiety. Now that the truth is out I know what I'm dealing with, and it's bad. She was his wife every day, greeing him at work, having sex with him. I was nothing to him. He can't get the fantasy out of his mind.

Please tell me if this is normal withdrawal?

CV, I know how hard it is. I am even not in your stage. At least he confessed and NC. Mine still denies A. But hang in there. Going away together is a good idea. Last month when I was in great pain, my sis invited me to go to a cruise with her. So i will be going on April. Then Wh agreed to go to MB seminar, so we will go together right after I come home from criuse. That way , the pain maybe less. Just suggestion.

His business is in such a shambles because he had to fire her and partner is gone he can't get away. You're right, I have been giving and giving. I thought there was improvement, but now I don't see it. He came home for lunch and told me he had to use all his willpower not to call her. I feel so anxious today.

His IC, who he did see last week, makes me more anxious. After H agreed to fire her he called this counselor who told him if we are all mature she could keep working for him. I flipped that night and told him forget it.

I'm just starting to think if he's so in-love with her should I just say go be with her. I'm losing my focus. Is this true love, or is it withdrawal?

CV...it is WITHDRAWAL not love!!

My H thought that OW was perfect person for him...was everything I wasn't. He even briefly thought she was a better mother. She thought they were soul mates. They thought they could talk to each other about anything..thought they were so close...were true friends.

Within days of dday he started seeing her a little more clearly through the fog, within a couple weeks lot more clearly within a month he hated her and was disguster by her...disgusted with himself. Couldn't imagine what he saw in her.

Thank goodness his withdrawal only lasted a couple of weeks...it was only bad for a week or so.

Don't breakdown..he is doing what most WS's don't do..he is allowing you to help him not to break NC..he is turning to you, not OW. Keep that in mind.

I know it's hard...the day after dday my H and left the kids with our moms and went away for 3 days to help us start to heal and to reduce the risk of contact. First morning there he woke up crying...I still want to vomit..everytime I think about holding him and even making love to him to help ease his pain...one thing he told me to help..he wasn't crying just because he was missing her..her was in withdrawal for everything...what he'd done to himself, to me, to the kids, for the lost innocence..everything.

I would guess that your H is also grieving for more then the OW..maybe you could try gently probing into that and see if just maybe he doesn't even realize that his is grieving for more then just her.

My H never missed the OW sexually...he missed talking to her...he missed the escape she provided.

When I could tell he was missing her I would engage him in coversations about what he missed...the first time teh friendship issue came up...I probed..asked him more about what they talked about..what the friendship was about. Come to find out...they didn't really know each other at all. While we were talking and I was asking questions he came to this realization quickly. I asked him questions like...what was her favorite color, what was her favorite food, what was her bday, what's her favorite song, perfume, how many people did she have sex with, what was her first time, what were her political beliefs, child rearing beliefts, etc....he didn't know the answers to any of that. I then asked him if she had ever bothered to learn any of that about him and he said no.

This lead him to start probing their relationship further and he realized that it was a superficial friendship only. That what he really liked is how she made him feel and that was fake too. She stroked him verbally all the time.

He also realized that she set him up...that she set him up..once he realized that he was furious with her. Still is to this day.

She makes his skin crawl. I really wish you H would have agreed to talk to my H.

Why does he think you will be able to read what he writes? Doesn't he have a work email account or some other way to communicate?

FT, I wondered if TTT was your H. The reason he thinks I'll read their e-mails is becaus I read one of his e-mails early on that gave me info, and last week read all her love letters. He has told me he won't even write in his journal now, although he did today. I told him I have no desire to read his journal or know what he says to TTT if they correspond. Like I want to hear more about how much he loves and misses the conniving "B". Oddly enough he said he is glad I found the letters.

I hope my H one day will really see the manipulation. He says he sees some of it, but I doubt it. He was really tied to her. I'm seeing that now. I saw my shrink today and she told me to tell H 3 things. (1) He has to be honest from now on. His dishonesty has really set us back. (2) He needs to commit to a recovery program and get the support for himself. It just can't be me doing the work. (3) He needs IC to help him figure out what led him to this fantasy and why he is holding on to it. She also told me something you MBers might not agree with. She said to give myself a time limit for seeing progress in him. She said I have a choice. It's not all in his hands. If in a month he is still pining away I don't have to continue. Frankly I don't think I can. I feel so anxious today.

Hi CV55 -

I post as a FWS, but my H had a lengthy EA a few years ago, so I can understand some of the pain of betrayal. My heart goes out to you in any case because of your pain.

Right now, I know 3 weeks of withdrawal seems like an eternity to you, and I hate to tell you, but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the bumpy road that's ahead. I read somewhere that Dr. Harley said withdrawal can last at least 3 months. (I skimmed through HNHN [His Needs Her Needs] by Dr. Harley this morning, but can't find a reference, sorry.) I've read it on this board before, too.

Have you read HNHN? It can help you understand more what is going on.

I'm sure few people, if any, would blame you if you gave up right now, but I want to encourage you to keep trying not to. It sounds like your H is trying to recover, and it's a good sign that he has asked to be accountable to you by asking if he can call you instead of calling her. (Compare it to an alcoholic having a sponser.)

Some people don't like to believe the A was an addiction, but people really can get addicted to anything, and I believe an A addiction is to the high of the endorphins produced. That's NOT an excuse, but it makes the difficulty of withdrawal make a little more sense.

However, I know it must be awful, if not unbearable, for you to hear your H pine for OW. It would be nice if he had a close friend or pastor he could talk to, but it really is good for him to be accountable to you.

In between times of comforting him, comfort yourself! Listen to soothing music, meditate, talk to a close friend, have a tea party with your kids, take a bubble bath, get your nails done, etc...whatever you find that soothes YOU.

You don't have to stay with your H; it's a choice, but it can be a good choice if both of you are willing to work on repairs. It's a very long road. My H and I are 19 months past dday and still dealing with the aftermath of my A, but things are infinitely better.

I asked a friend of mine whose H had an A 20 years ago how long it took for her to feel better. She said it was 2 years before she felt better and at least 5 years before she was able not to think about it anymore.

I've read similar responsed on this board. I'm not telling you that to discourage you, just to let you know that recovery is quite a struggle, but it's not impossible! My friend told me that now she and her H are more in love than ever, and I've spent a lot of time with them as a couple, and I believe it!

God bless you as you go through this.

Rose55

double post

<small>[ March 22, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

CV- I truly feel for you. From an outside perspective (outside in the sense that my WH has not even begun to reach this point yet) and what I have read about A's and the recovery...it sounds pretty "normal" (as if this word could even begin to adequately convey how you feel right now).

I have to tell you...this is my biggest fear in the whole world about this whole thing. I've weathered the initial shock, am ready to forgive, have changed and ready to explore additional change, ready and willing to move onward and upward, but this pining away, depressed, crying for the OW thing will most likely eat me alive. It is not in me to watch someone wallow in self pity (and if any wallowing were to be done, it seems as if we BS's would have first dibbs)...but to see someone grieving the very thing that TORE so many people apart (our family, our marriage, our friends, etc., etc., etc) would be extremely difficult for me to tolerate or forgive (to me, it would feel extremely disrespectful).

I think it is best to focus on the addiction side of this. Maybe you could hop on the internet and read up a little on addiction recoveries. Many churches also have recovery groups, etc.

If you are Christian, go see the Passion of the Christ (if you have already seen it, go see it again). When I am having trouble forgiving my WH (especially since he really doesn't want my forgiveness, and because he has not stopped doing what is hurting me, the A), I often think about the sacrifice that Christ had to make for me...and how I will often be whining about this or that in my prayers, and He is patient and merciful and loving, when I SOOO don't deserve it!

I will keep you in my prayers! :-)

Rose55, thanks for your reply. I'm just incredibly down. Last week after i found her love letters and he finally told me the truth, I experienced the intense grief. It was literally worse than when my mom died suddenly when I was 26 yrs. old. Now I just feel down, tired, and hopeless. Maybe if he would have been honest about the details in the beginning I wouldn't have been set back so far.

The sex and intimacy that they shared for months while I was so sad and lonely. I can't seem to get over that. He said he wasn't being cruel because someone who is cruel means to be. It feels like he was being cruel to me.

He told me tonight that he's grieving because she was his lover, friend, and office manager. All true. I said, "So you have known her for 5 years, and had the A for about 9 months. We have known each other for 26 yrs. and you haven't given a second thought about losing me."

When I hear about the time it might take to recover I cringe. I'm still not sure I understand why it's worth the effort. In the beginning of this I felt this love towards H. Now I just see how he totally betrayed me. Just like I can't imagine him feeling deep love for me again, I can't imagine feeling it for him either. Sorry, I seem to have hit rock bottom. No, I think last week was rock bottom, this is just the pits.

Tomorrow is our anniversary. Just thinking about it makes me cringe. My therapist and I decided the best thing is to just treat it like another day. What's to celebrate anyway? My H breaking his vows, treating me like crap, being in-love with another woman. Need I go on. hopefully tomorrow I will have more faith and hope. Thanks for letting me share this pain on this site. It somehow helps.

You are getting good advice. Have you read SAA? Your H is following the script to a tee!

A couple of things to think about:

1. Your H is talking to you about his feelings, being honest, and NOT talking to OW. This is soooo great though incredibly painful. Many of us have WS's who are not even this brave and committed. For instance, my H went on with contact with OW for almost two years past d-day. I would repeatedly find out, threaten, and/or leave and the whole thing starts over again.

2. This will NOT be forever--he has to get past this withdrawal time, remember the addiction. But it CAN be beat and he is looking to you for help with it.

3. Stop focusing on HIM. Take care of yourself during this time. See if the two of you can do some kind of pleasurable activity together each day and do all that you need to do for yourself, by yourself as well. Pampering, reading, talking to friends, praying etc.

4. ChristyV talked about trusting Christ. My faith was pretty weak when I found out about the A, but I have deepened my relationship with Jesus. There were times when all I could do was visualize Jesus beside me holding my hand, comforting me. So, even if you are not a Christian, there is the power of the universe, our connectedness to each other--and so many of us here know what you are going through and are sending thoughts, vibes, whatever to you. Tap in! Visualize one or all of us MBers holding your hand, comforting you, encouraging you, telling you what an awesomely loving, forgiving, healthy human being you are when you are there for your H. There is an incredible wellspring there just for the taking. Be silent, tap in. You will feel it!

One more thing--read Fred Luskin's "Forgive for Good" for help in seeing this from another perspective and help in processing this on your way to forgiveness. All of your feelings are absolutely normal. Sounds like you have a good IC too.

Also, Susan Jeffers' "Embracing Uncertainty"

Anne, thanks for your words of encouragement. I've told Shatterd Dreams that I always cry when I read his replies to what I've written. Well, you're up there with him now. I think yours and others' words of encouragement are what get to me. Everything in my being wants to run from this man who hurt me on so many levels. Hurt isn't even a strong enough word. Somehow you MBers keep me going. The thought of you all holding my hand is very comforting.

As I wrote yesterday, today is my anniversary. H held me this morning and mentioned it. I told him let's just pretend it's not our anniversary, because there's nothing to celebrate today. Nineteen years ago we took vows that were totally broken. Our marriage will never be the same again.

I know I'm not having it half as bad as some of you have or are having it on this site. Anne, I can't imagine staying with my H if he continued with her for 2 more yrs. I'm pretty sure I couldn't do that. I know H is trying in his own way. I'm just feeling close to depleted. He told me yesterday was a breakthrough day for him. He survived wanting to call her all day, and it helped that he could tell me about it and call me instead of her. What he doesn't know is the extreme psychological toll yesterday took on me.

He did seem different this morning. He was having many insights. He said he always felt anxious and unaccepted as a boy. Whether right or wrong he didn't feel accepted by me. Of course the lovely OW gave him TOTAL acceptance and the admiration he so totally desired. It's so funny. OW gave him total acceptance. What was there not to accept? These As are built on such falsehood. He told me she always told him what a good person he is, and how he felt like such a good person. I said, "Can you not see the irony in that? She's telling you how great and good you are, while encouraging you to cause such pain to the people you love. Your wife and kids." WOW! It really is all fantasy, isn't it?

Over this past year, before the A was revealed, the gift that emerged for me was my spiritual life got stronger. It's been tough for me lately to feel like God is in my life. Suddenly I'm just not sure why this is happening to me, whereas before I looked at it more like a life lesson. One of my clients who isn't religious at all saw The Passion. He said what struck him about Jesus was that he kept his dignity in spite of the cruelity and how he was betrayed. How he forgave his friends and his enemies.

I think until this happened I didn't really understand what betrayal was. Betrayal of this magnitude. I also never felt like I had any enemies. It struck me that OW is my enemy. She was an enemy to me, to our marriage, to our children. Such a weird thought.

Thanks for the book recommendations. I will read them. If we continue together I will have to forgive H. I have never had to forgive someone at this level before. I need all the help I can get.

Thanks to you and to all my MB friends! CV