Believer,

Hugs are always good - even if they're only cyber ones anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Actually, what is concerning me is that I am starting to feel fairly normal anymore, and I am realizing now nice it is to come home and not have to walk on eggshells all the time for fear of getting snapped at. I've never really experienced this kind of calm in my house before. Granted the kids and I go at it every now and then, and they're not on their best behavior yet. It may still be chaotic by most people's standards, but I find it fairly relaxing.

What if I find a way to get past all the happy memories from 23 years and decide I don't want to take him back even if he comes? (Which he's not yet. I was on his bank account just now to see if he'd deposited his check yet and can see as of yesterday he was still spending a dandy amount on liquor and that I'm guessing he took her out for pizza.)

LL

Yeah, when I saw your new thread title, I made a mental note to come in and mention that it is an entirely reasonable and sane thing to ask, expect, demand. And as far as demands go, it's not totally selfish either.

IMHO, you have already gone far and beyond the call of duty, by any standards. Not that I'm saying you should give up, I'm just saying that I, for one, have a lot of respect for you and admire your stregnth. I take my hat off you, LL.

dewt

LL -

I'm with you. Don't know if I want WH back. Of course he is still with his little sweetie pie, so right now I don't have to make that choice. But it is in the back of my mind, and I'm dreading the thought of him interrupting my peaceful little world.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Believer,

Hugs are always good - even if they're only cyber ones anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Actually, what is concerning me is that I am starting to feel fairly normal anymore, and I am realizing now nice it is to come home and not have to walk on eggshells all the time for fear of getting snapped at. I've never really experienced this kind of calm in my house before. Granted the kids and I go at it every now and then, and they're not on their best behavior yet. It may still be chaotic by most people's standards, but I find it fairly relaxing.

What if I find a way to get past all the happy memories from 23 years and decide I don't want to take him back even if he comes? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Were you happy walking on eggshells in fear of being snapped at all these long years?

Did you feel valued and respected and loved in the relationship?

LL, I am glad that you feel better, you are getting strong, but I am falling now.

LNH,

You're NOT failing! You're going through what I've read several places is one of the most painful experiences a person can ever go through (being the BS). I have been just as weak-feeling as you and have cried and paced the floor and made myself sick from lack of sleep and lack of food. I am counting my blessings right now that I feel fairly good. It could easily change again.

Keep praying for strength. Read Psalm 91, and really concentrate on verses 14 & 15. And keep yourself busy.

And really, I know it's not what you want to hear, but I've improved SO much since WH moved away, even though I missed him terribly at first, because you don't wonder each night if they're coming home or not.

Believer,

I think that's my issue, too. I do want the best for him, and I still pray that God works in his heart and brings him back to Christianity again (and really, if that truly happened and he put God first, it would probably help a great deal with the other issues), but right now I like the peace (again NOT to be confused with wanting to be alone forever!). He would definitely upset all that.

ML,

We have had some really good times, but yes, in being completely honest, the 'eggshell' feeling has always been there, even when he was sober. He has a LOT of anger in him. And I think a lot of it is directed at the kids and me because we "took away his freedom". He's said he never wanted kids, though he claims to love his. And one of the big things he mentioned at the start of this A is that, while he knew it wasn't the "right" thing to do, he wanted away from the chaos and the responsibility of everything. In his eyes, I think we have held him down all these years .

What to do????

LL

LL, thank you for the encouragement. I read the Psalm. It helped. I wish I will be there like you one day. Be strong and peaceful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

ML,

We have had some really good times, but yes, in being completely honest, the 'eggshell' feeling has always been there, even when he was sober. He has a LOT of anger in him. And I think a lot of it is directed at the kids and me because we "took away his freedom". He's said he never wanted kids, though he claims to love his. And one of the big things he mentioned at the start of this A is that, while he knew it wasn't the "right" thing to do, he wanted away from the chaos and the responsibility of everything. In his eyes, I think we have held him down all these years .

What to do????

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suspect thats his excuse for his unpredictible mood swings. Most alcoholics have very unpredictable and volatile emotions. Thier families learn to walk around on eggshells in fear of upsetting the alcoholic because the ENTIRE household revolves around the alcoholic and as such, is at the mercy of his sick and volatile emotions.

I always wonder why anyone would choose to live like that. So strange to me ..... My mother is an alcoholic and that is how it was living with her. But I couldn't stand it anymore by the time I was 13 and left home.

Aren't you seeing a huge difference in your home now that you don't have to live in that insanity? Don't you feel like you can RELAX now? How could you not prefer that?

Aren't you seeing a huge difference in your home now that you don't have to live in that insanity? Don't you feel like you can RELAX now? How could you not prefer that?

See a differenc? Yes.

Can I relax now? Yes

How could I not prefer it? I'm not sure. For the short term it's nice. Living this way forever, if I don't have a spouse (i.e., companion) in my life, I'm not sure is preferable. I am very lonely. I keep myself moving 100% of my awake time except for when I'm on here or at work to keep from dwelling on the emptiness. If I'm really physically active, I'm okay.

Today I finished clearing my two garden boxes and planted all this year's plants. Tomorrow is Mother's Day and since it was never celebrated by WH anyway, I'm actually in better shape this year because the kids have been providing free labor around the house today as their gift.

But if things are still unsettled, or if I'm truly done with him alone by this fall and winter, it will be very difficult again. The holidays, the long dark nights and short days, the frigid temps where you don't feel like getting out of the house or moving away from the fireplace, and everything being stark and brown is very depressing to me. Spring and summer do me a world of good and today was hot for this time of year, but beautiful. We're being graced by a very pretty electrical storm tonight.

Alcoholic or not, I do still have love for WH and wish him the best in life. I truly pray that he turns back to God. It's the only thing that will straighten him out. I'm not sure I'm ready to let him go, but I'm not sure I want him back either.

I'll just remain in limbo for now, but I can't do this forever.

LL

LL, can you envision what it would be like to live in a house with a man where you didn't walk around on eggshells and weren't verbally abused? Where you were loved and respected and lived in a PEACEFUL, SANE environment. Can you envision living with a man who had steady, normal predictable moods where didn't live in fear?

Can you envision that?

Yes, I have. More as each day goes by. But I've also considered that no marriage is perfect and there are always disagreements, and that I am a fairly strong-willed person. I'm afraid I won't find anyone like that. Also, afraid God's plan for me is that I remain single from here on (I'm not all that confident about meeting people, and I'm very selective on who I might choose. The field is slim for 38-yr-old's in Iowa). One of my pastors has already had that talk with me, trying to sell me on how others in the church are single and happy.

And I still have all those memories to get past. Lots of photos. Lots of video tapes. Lots of things to prove that there were fun moments.

And I guess I'm also afraid if I totally walk away from him, I'll hurt him bad enough that he'll never come back to God. That maybe it's my job to stay with him and be his anchor if he needs one.

LL

Dear LL,

I want to make a suggestion - I'm picking up your anxiety about the wintertime - I'm also picking up that now that the days are long and bright, that you are able to be very physically active.

Get the book "Winter Blues - Seasonal Affective Disorder - What it is and how to overcome it" by Norman E. Rosenthal M.D. It sounds like you may suffer from SAD, which is a lot more common than people realize. I live in England, even though I am originally from California. It was many years before I realized that I was seriously affected by the lack of light in the wintertime. For the last 6 years I have used a "lightbox" every day from Sept to at least March - if we have a long spell of dreary weather during the summer, I have been known to get back to the lightbox. For me, its a Godsend.

I get up every morning in the wintertime an hour earlier than usual - while this is difficult at first, and sometimes I resent having to do it, its actually a blessing - I have a quiet time alone to myself before I have to face the day - I can write, I read - I do my Scripture reading and pray, I knit - I sit in front of my lightbox, and just glance into it once a minute - no staring! - thats all it takes - I notice a difference in my mood and energy levels within 3 days, and it keeps me "happy" through the winter.

SAD was discovered in the Northern countries where they have a higher suicide rate during the winter - in Scandinavia now, they have Light cafes - where you can go sit and have a cup of coffee, and there is a large lightbox positioned over your table - so you can get a burst of "lux" with your coffee.

Without my lightbox, I feel like a hibernating bear - I just don't want to get out of bed, like I'm living underwater. With my lightbox, I am a normal person in the wintertime.

I am glad you have ML posting to you. Like her, one of my parents is an alcoholic - my dad - my first H was also an alcoholic, my grandfather and my great-uncle were both alcoholics. My grandfather ended his life accidentally by walking in front of a car, which was driven by a recovering alcoholic who had just had a first drink! Wow! She never drank again!

One of the things that happens to you when YOU go into recovery from living with an active alcoholic, is that you have more energy to deal with your own problems and needs, not just the alcoholic's - you have more energy to heal yourself. I see that happening with you - you are putting weight back on now, and doing a lot to take care of your house.

Please consider getting a lightbox and trying it to help you through the winter - here in England, I was able to give it a trial run at my doctor's office, and they are available through mail-order for a very reasonable price. Something to consider, anyway - now that I know about SAD, I hate seeing people suffer through the winter when I know there is something so easy that can help them so much.

All the best.
LIR

<small>[ May 09, 2004, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

LIR,

Though I haven't done much research, I do know what you're talking about with the seasonal disorder, and I have considered that it may affect me, but having been on A/D for the last year or so (and sporadically before that), I just figured that would take care of it. Maybe not?

The lightbox makes a lot of sense. I'll have to do a little research. Not being a morning person, I'd admit it would be hard to get up earlier in the morning, but I understand the "hibernating bear" feeling, too. And it was especially hard this last winter because I was going through the shock and sadness of my WH's affair that came to light in late fall.

Normally the holidays give me something to focus on. Of course with the current sitution, they only added to the problem.

I also agree with your statement that not focusing on the alcoholic's problems gives me more time to focus on myself and others around me. He wasn't drinking for the two years immediately preceding the A which was wonderful. I trusted him more and I didn't have to worry about late nights out doing bad things or drinking and driving, but as ML said, the volatile temper was always there.

I've been focusing more on the kids since he left and granted, we have become a little closer, I believe. However, once I've started to become human again over the last month or so, I've been able to actually enjoy focusing on them and on myself,

And yes, I have gained a few pounds back because my appetite is back. Still have a ways to go.

Thanks for your input on S.A.D. and the lightbox.

LL

<small>[ May 09, 2004, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Yes, I have. More as each day goes by. But I've also considered that no marriage is perfect and there are always disagreements, and that I am a fairly strong-willed person. I'm afraid I won't find anyone like that.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, are you sure the issue is that you don't believe you can find anyone like that? Have you considered that maybe you LIKE living in an abusive, chaotic marriage? That you like being treated badly?

You crave his presence even though you admit that it's quite uncomfortable to walk around on eggshells. You want to live with an abusive, self centered alcoholic who does not have the capacity to love you back.

I can see that you want it so much that you will manufacture elaborate rationalizations about why you HAVE to live like this, even to go as far as insinuating that he can't live without you.

Have you realized these things about yourself and wondered why you would want a marriage with an abusive, self centered man who does not have the ability to love? Do you not deserve better?

<small>[ May 09, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

No I don't want to be in an abusive relationship. Here's the real deal--and I realize I may sound insane writing it...

I have been with my H since I was 15. I think part of the reason I married him initially was I felt I might not be able to find anyone else, and I didn't want to be alone.

23 years after first dating him, I do still feel love for him, and wish for him to come back to the Lord and get his head on straight.

I'm not sure I want him back, but....

I'm still afraid no one else would ever have me, would ever put up with me and my quirks, or would treat me differently than WH does. My IC reminds me that I've never been in a normal relationship so I don't know what one is like. He's right. And because I don't know if it could be better, I'm afraid.

I lack self-confidence. I am tall and thin and as flat-chested as today's 9-yr-olds, maybe flatter. While I think I'm not terribly unattractive facially, I am afraid guys might be repulsed by the fact that I lack a feminine body (except for the hip curves). Men are very visual. I've tried to be attractive for my WH, but he has always pointed out chesty babes to me.

So, for years it hasn't really mattered because my Biblical beliefs won't allow me to divorce someone just because I'm unhappy or in an abusive relationship and remarry. And I didn't want to be single.

Now I'm at a crossroads of sorts. I have 23 years of memories, and as I said, I do still feel love for at least the man he used to be. But I don't feel love for the man he is right now. I believe Biblically I am justified if I divorce.

But then I'm back to that "Who the heck would have me anyway? Flat-cheasted, air-headed (albeit intelligent), impatient, non-domestic woman that I am."

And then we throw in that part about I can't remarry someone if they've divorced for a reason other than infidelity on their spouse's part. And this leaves widowers, never-married (and at my age they're either gay or there is something wrong), or divorcees of an affair.

Add to that the fact that I don't live in L.A. or NYC, but in Des Moines, Iowa--home to approximately 500,000 people total, and the fact that I'm not socially active anywhere, and you have a prescription for SINGLE FOREVER!

So, no--I DON'T want abuse. I was just telling my pastors this morning how calm it's been. But I'm afraid God is asking me to wait--maybe years--to make a decision on him. Maybe forever?? And I'm impatient. I want to live my life. But then again, our life isn't for us. It's for God.

I feel stronger than I did by far. But I also have a LOT more questions.

LL

LL -

Of course you can have a nice life without WH. You have always been with him, so you don't realize that you can get along without him.

I am picky, and quirky too. I did lots of dating, but didn't get married until I was 35. I had many chances, but never felt everything was just right.

Then I had my 2 boys and ended up divorced after 10 years. But I got married again, and we have been married for 10 years. Now this one looks like he's going south.

I have complete confidence that I could find another love, and I am OOOOOLLLLLLDDDDDD. However right now I don't want one - they are so much trouble.

So chin up girl, there is always lots of hope. If you don't find one in Iowa, move to Alaska. I hear there are tons of men up there.

Alaska--the land of frigid temps and whale blubber?? Brrrr! and Blech!

I believe I'd have to keep my search to the continental 48 states.

Today has been an okay "single person" day. The kids both wanted to go out for lunch which is rare. We went to a place that I've never been before that they both have visited with friends. It was very good and we had a nice time.

LL

Well, this is my last post until I return from my company convention in Florida on Wednesday night. I fly out early tomorrow morning so should be in bed now but am taking care of a few last-minute things.

WH arrived a couple hours ago. He's staying here with the kids while I'm gone. I guess he's going to use my car, so he'll be taking me to the airport.

We've said very little. He's cold emotionally (and very hot physically because he's a redhead who burns easily and rode 200 miles on his bike today with no sunscreen. Never learns).

I haven't asked about OW. I haven't heard his phone ring, though I'm sure she knows he's here and isn't calling. He doesn't have any booze with him that I can see which is good. I'm glad he didn't show up drunk.

My problem now is that I really feel nothing for him at this second. I'm tense, and would frankly rather he weren't here. I'd feel more at ease.

I really think I do want out more than I want to stay in anymore, and I feel VERY guilty about that. And it really may be because the guy from church who is widowed recently made me realize that there are people out there who might be easier to live with.

(No, I don't even know him, except for casual conversation. I just am using him as a living, breathing example. And he stopped me at church today to tell me that if there is anything I need help with around the house that I can't do, he and his son bike very near my place all the time on the bike path and they'd be happy to stop and help. I told them that right now WH stops every now and then and has been willing to help so far, but that I appreciated his offer and would keep him in mind.)

Right now my garbage disposal appears to have died. Bought a new one today and unhooked everything from the old one, but can't get it to unlock from the bracket. I've asked WH if he'd help me. He said "yes" but so far has just sat in the recliner and slept and watched TV. I guess I'll see if it's fixed when I get home. He doesn't have to do it. I'm sure I could call church guy, but I feel very awkward doing that because I'm afraid he's just as vulnerable as I am (with losing his wife a few months ago and his father two weeks ago) and it might not be an appropriate thing to do.

Anyway, I'm off for now. Enjoy the silence of me not posting all the time!

I hate flying--scares me to death. Keep me in your prayers. Keep the pilot in your prayers, too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Talk to you all again on Wednesday night or Thursday.

LL

<small>[ May 09, 2004, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL, have a great trip. Relax yourself under the FL sun. Forget about everything at home(of coursr, not the children, they are always in your heart). You can deal with them when you come back. Sorry that I was quiet yesterday, I had a busy day, please see my thread when you are back. Miss you. Talk to you Wed.

Hey there,

Hope you are having a GREAT time.

Thought you might like the copy of a post of a copy of a post (we are now entering the twilight zone...)

Lostva's story