Have any of you been in a situation or are in a situation where your children became atached to the op... And actually have a relationship with them, even though the op's and ws's relationship is desolved.


If so how are these visits going, do you find them benifical to your children? And how often does the op spend time with your children, and how is that aranged?

Basicly Im asking what you think is apropriate, and porductive for the children..

I don't feel at this time that cutting her out of there lives is benifical at all, but at the same time I would like to see the atachment level change to more of a friendship, and I feel that can only happen if the time is less then right now..

Also the ow is the mother of my step daughter and I would like to think her and the kids can be close with out it being weird for me.. As I hope my h's and my relationship grows even more so that when the baby is on bottles I can have a real relationship with her and become her real step mom and not just have that title becouse of a peice of paper...

Anyway, any sugestions , coments, etc, apreciated, becouse now is such a confusing time with there relationship over, us seperated, but kinda together, and of course all the conections, and intricities involved with raising emotionaly sound children... whew! My mind is raising with the "what if" facter as our situation is extreamly complicated at the moment...

How can you have it all? A close great friendship etc, with your spouse, open comunication etc.. Well adjusted children that feel people aren't disposiable, a close sibling relationship even though theres two mothers, and the ow involved with the kids becouse that relationship is emotionaly benificial to her out of love... How can every thing balance itself out, so our children get the best and our relationship has a chance to florish with out me being upset through us figureing this all out...

Personaly I feel that my h spending time with her and the kids together , even though he wants to keep the friendship with her for the babys sake and of course there friendship conection, is not sending the right message to her, and is going to eventualy confuse my children, becouse that will feel like "family" time, and of course will prevent me from feeling like I want to partisipate in our relationship... But my h at the moment needs space and time to figure himself out and feel he's making the best desisions for him.

I need objective sugestions, as I'm too close to the situation.


Thank you.

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: *allofme* ]</small>

I would absolutely not allow my children to see the OW. If the OP is not fit to associate with ME, then she sure wouldn't be fit to associate with my children. She is certainly not the kind of role model your kids need to be exposed to.

Acceptance of her only sends a very wrong and confusing message to the your children. That adultery is AOK. Instead I would be telling my children that Daddy had an inappropriate relationship with the OW and that they both did a very bad thing. It is because of that, that we won't be seeing her again. I would do everything in my power to completely limit any contact between you and your family with the OW.

Your H is now linked to this woman for the next 18 years because of their child and that is a huge problem for your marriage. They can't ever be "friends," because they have gone way beyond that point. I would expect strict boundaries for his visitations in order to protect you and protect him from temptation. Such as, chaperoned visitations while the baby is small and then pick ups when she gets bigger. He has to avoid situations where he is ever alone with the OW.

I feel bad for you, though, becuase there is no easy way to deal with this. You will have to have the affair rubbed in your nose for the next 18 years and just try to make the best out of it.

OK, what I'm hearing you say is that you want everyone to be happy here, even the OP - it sounds like you are trying to limit conflict at almost all cost, under the guise of promoting "good" family relations - perhaps you are trying hard not to be judgemental.

Its hard to give you any advice when I don't know the background of your H's affair with the OP, but one thing strikes me right away - you don't seem to have asked your children, or discussed with your children, how they feel about things.

It may very well be that your children have a R with the OP, but now that your H is back with you, do you understand just how vulnerable your children are to being used by the OP to get back at you? One of the ways that she could do that is by always being their "special friend", and quietly, but persistently undermining your recovering R with your H, and your authority with your children. That is one of the worst things that can happen, unfortunately, very likely.

As the child of parents who divorced, and who struggled all my life to cope with my father's view that the OP should be a "part of our family", I would say that you should not expect your children to see any more of the OP than they wish to.

As a mother, it is your primary role in life to protect your children, not to facilitate "smooth" relationships between them and their father's lover, even if there are other half-siblings involved.

You seem to be under the impression that the relationships between the children are conflict-free, but I suspect that is never the case. There may be unspoken emotional conflicts and jealousies which are acted out between them without your knowledge. If your children perceive that you WANT them to get along, they may hide their real feelings from you for fear of making you unhappy with them.

In other words, what is best for them may not be that they be able to have access to their step brothers or sisters, and vice-versa, especially if their father is now back living with you. Most children want clearly defined roles - and it is up to you to provide them with those role models. They look to you as a model for forgiveness and reconciliation, but they also need you to protect them, not just from physical danger, but from emotional harm.

Speaking from personal experience, my father expected me to be close to the OP, therefore, in my life, there was always a "triangle" relationship to be contended with. Partly as a result of that, my perceptions were distorted within my own marriage - I had absorbed into my "world view" that I should tolerate an OP, and always try to be forgiving. I was not a strong person, who could decisively say "no" to my SO getting involved with OP. This has been a pattern in my life, not just in my marriage, but with previous boyfriends. I am sure this stems from the position I was placed in as a child, of always be forced to contend with and tolerate OP, never to object, or I would lose my R with my father.

So, you see, while you may believe that you are teaching your children love and tolerance, forgiveness and generosity, in my belief, you are placing them in a much more profoundly dangerous position emotionally, which could adversely effect their entire lives.

Another "red flag" in your post - you said something about letting your children's R with OP continue as it is "beneficial for her". What is beneficial to her is none of your concern. Her life, her children, and her happiness, is her responsibility - it is not up to you to provide, or to continue to provide anything for her that contributes to her happiness.

I have been married to my H for 15 years, and for the whole of our married life, he has remained friends with a married woman with whom he had an affair. She has, at times, been a friend to me, but I regret maintaining that friendship now, which I did for the sake of my H - because I thought they had come to terms with their R, and that it was resolved, and no longer an "affair". I was young and naive - and although I can honestly say that she is a lovely person and has done a lot for both of us, I regret having allowed, and condoned their contact to continue. Why? Because it sucked the intimacy out of my R with my H. It was like marrying someone who was already involved in an EA, and always would be. Now we have two children, and believe me, our M has suffered because I condoned this R. My H does not have the same concrete frame of reference that he should have - he does not have the same sense of emotional loyalty. He believes that he is entitled to have emotional, romantic relationships with OW, even though he is married. Why not? He had one with a married woman before he was married, and his wife has been happy enough for that to continue, so why should she object if he falls in love with someone new, maybe even several times?

Do you see what I am driving at? I believed that I was being generous and that I should facilitate what was essentially a good friendship - and that I should not disturb the bonds of friendship that had been formed between my H and this friend, which included her H and all of their children. It was only after being married, and realizing that we never became closer to each other emotionally - in fact, over the years, it has become clear to me that she is still the first person he turns to in times of emotional crisis, not to me. That hurts more than I can say.

This is the kind of lesson you are teaching your children if you do not offer them a clear role-model - that they must always settle for second-best. It is up to you to teach them that adultery is wrong and that they are not obliged to have a R with the OP and her family.

I see no need to be inflammatory about how you handle this - there is no need to make declarations or create confrontations. But talk to your children and make it clear to them that they are not obliged to participate in the OP's family life.

I also have to agree with ML - that it is unfortunate that your H has another child with her - this means that your H will have a lifetime connection to the OP, which will always remain as a threat to your M. If you truly want to recover your M, you should set very clear boundaries about contact between them, clear visitation agreements, and be able to discuss these openly with your H - otherwise, OP will use the "needs" of their child as an excuse to maintain constant contact with your H. I think you will need good legal advice in order to be clear about how to handle this.

I know I've been a bit long-winded about this, so forgive me if I've gone on too long. Hope this helps.

LIR

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Thank you both for your opinons, I hope more chim in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Melodylane,

(Quote)
"I would absolutely not allow my children to see the OW. If the OP is not fit to associate with ME, then she sure wouldn't be fit to associate with my children. She is certainly not the kind of role model your kids need to be exposed to."

Here's the thing, I had no choice in the matter, my h and I were going to devorice and he was liveing with her. He wanted half time with his children and she was liveing there, there for they grew to love her and it was not a conflict for them becouse they acsepted we were no longer together. She is not the type of person I myself would be asociated with , but never the less my children love her, and she does love them back.


(Quote)
"Acceptance of her only sends a very wrong and confusing message to the your children. That adultery is AOK. Instead I would be telling my children that Daddy had an inappropriate relationship with the OW and that they both did a very bad thing. It is because of that, that we won't be seeing her again. I would do everything in my power to completely limit any contact between you and your family with the OW."

I have no idia why you think I or anyone else should sham another parent.. By doing that you are poisining there perseption of the parent, as time goes on children are going to form there own opinons on the past, and are going to have more questions,we will deal with those, as we've delt with the ones already.. With loving care, and yes a little sheltering. There is no reason the children need to be expossed to the gritty details or facts. Our children never knew of the affair. What they did know is that mommy and daddy were getting a devorice and he had a new girlfriend. Not the perfict senerio, but enough of a reality for them to feel comfortable with transishion. I don't see how we have delt with the situation, as sending the message adultery is ok.


(quote)
"Your H is now linked to this woman for the next 18 years because of their child and that is a huge problem for your marriage. They can't ever be "friends," because they have gone way beyond that point. I would expect strict boundaries for his visitations in order to protect you and protect him from temptation. Such as, chaperoned visitations while the baby is small and then pick ups when she gets bigger. He has to avoid situations where he is ever alone with the OW."

The child and the link between my h and the ow, is only a problem if you perseve it like that.
See I belive in choices, and free will.. Me setting up "strict" boundaries for my h and his child is rediculouse, just to prevent temptation etc.. We are all free individuals, we can choose what ever we want, if he wanted to rekindle a realationship with her at any point in time , that's fine, I would then choose, becouse I also have free will, to not be in our relationship. I will never impose boundries on him, he needs to make choices on how to deal with everything on his own and wether or not he wants to consider my feelings within the choices he makes.

Chaperoned visits? Is he on probation? And Im the probation ofiser. I want a healthy marriage, I will not be his woren. Nor do I think anyone of the BS's here on the board should be..

Don't we all want love given to us freely, with out control, or the codepente fear of loss, or being alone.. Isn't that what everyone wants? It's simple to me realy, Im not going to be a woren, check up on him, moneter him, to see if he's being a "good" boy. And Im not tyed by my arms and legs in the bondadge of marriage. Marriage to me is very different. Two people who respect , and love one another, who are eachothers best friends, and choose to stay married out of free will..... We are seperated at the moment becouse we both need breathing room, and we are seeing if we are capibale of a healthy marriage, that's to be seen. But the new bond we have and the new way we relate to eachother is wounderful.. All of the choices regarding his child and the ow, are his own. I was merly asking others, who also have been in my boat when the children already have a relationship with the op, how they structure things, or feel about things...

(quote)
"I feel bad for you, though, becuase there is no easy way to deal with this. You will have to have the affair rubbed in your nose for the next 18 years and just try to make the best out of it."

I apreicate your consern. But yet again I feel very difrently about this. I belive everything in this world has meaning, and happens for a reason. Even the difficult stuff. It's what you learn, how you grow, adapt, what you get out of our tests hear.... You don't need to feel bad for me. And I don't veiw a gift of God as something to be rubbed in my face.. My step daughter is here becouse she was ment to be, regardless if she came out of an affair.. And I love her, becouse I love my h so much she feels like she is apart of me even though none of my blode runs through her vains. In my opinon the only way the affair would be rubbed in my face for the next 18 years would be if it went on for the next 18 years, and I stayed married.

I really do apriaciate you trying to help. But in my opinon, you seem to still be in the anger stage, and beliveing everything needs to fit in some type of box in order for you to feel comfortable.. I like boxes, I used to live in one to, and it was very painful to grow, and very painful to leave the box, but now that Im out, I would never get back in. The world looks so different, people look so different, and my h looks so different.

God bless,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by *allofme*:


I have no idia why you think I or anyone else should sham another parent.. By doing that you are poisining there perseption of the parent, as time goes on children are going to form there own opinons on the past, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">allofme,

Adults do many things that they should be ashamed of, and adultery is one of those things. Teaching a child right from wrong is a parental obligation and not something that should be avoided because you are afraid of some notion of "shame." Adults should be ashamed of bad behavior. Children can and do have to accept that their parents are not perfect and this is one of those cases.

To pretend that adultery is ok is not a virtue, it is foolish and destructive, and only confuses children. If children are not taught this is wrong, they only grow up and follow their parent's patterns.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

The child and the link between my h and the ow, is only a problem if you perseve it like that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you don't perceive a very possible - and probable - continuation of the affair as a "problem" then I guess it's not a problem. But their continued contact will always be a threat to your marriage. But then, I suspect you don't view adultery as a problem and might have an open marriage?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chaperoned visits? Is he on probation? And Im the probation ofiser. I want a healthy marriage, I will not be his woren. Nor do I think anyone of the BS's here on the board should be..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he is on probation. He has to reprove himself after having an affair. He has to earn trust again. I think that affording trust to an untrustworthy person is insane, allofme. And that is what it comes down to. You are affording trust to an untrustworthy person and setting yourself up for future harm. You can see for yourself what happens when you blindly trust an individual.

What you call being a "probation officer" is simply setting protective boundaries for yourself. You refuse to do this to your own detriment. It doesn't make you virtuous, just foolish. If someone robs the bank, you don't give them keys to the vault, you guard the vault better.

I would also point out that since there are no consequences for adultery in your marriage, that your H is very likely to do it again. It will just be another "choice." And sadly, that "choice" is one that will devastate your family and expose you to STDs. You have a responsibility as a parent to protect yourself and your children from this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I really do apriaciate you trying to help. But in my opinon, you seem to still be in the anger stage, and beliveing everything needs to fit in some type of box in order for you to feel comfortable.. I like boxes, I used to live in one to, and it was very painful to grow, and very painful to leave the box, but now that Im out, I would never get back in. The world looks so different, people look so different, and my h looks so different.

God bless,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One does not have to be angry to realize that adultery is destructive and something to be avoided, only realistic.


I am so sorry for your children that you feel this way. It is horribly confusing and destructive for a child to see a parent that cannot tell right from wrong and who sets no protective boundaries for themselves.

Adultery is profoundly destructive to a family and pretending it's not won't change that fact. It only means that you leave yourself and your children open for more destruction. Have you been tested for STDs?

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Lady in red,

(quote)
"OK, what I'm hearing you say is that you want everyone to be happy here, even the OP - it sounds like you are trying to limit conflict at almost all cost, under the guise of promoting "good" family relations - perhaps you are trying hard not to be judgemental.

Its hard to give you any advice when I don't know the background of your H's affair with the OP, but one thing strikes me right away - you don't seem to have asked your children, or discussed with your children, how they feel about things."

I opoligise for not giveing some out line for you to go by. To me it didn't seem relivant to my courent situation, becouse it is in the past, can not be changed and I'm leaving it behind. But I will share the outline.

My h and I have been married for 10 years, and together 12 1/2. My h was the typical fence siter that bounced back and for between the ow and my self for the past 2 years.It has been a hellaciouse experiance, with pain that was inconsivable prior in my life. We seperated again in Sept, becouse the affair continued, even after I found out about the pregnancy and acsepted it. I couldn't deal with the continuation of the affair so I asked for a devorice. We have shared the children since oct, which was also hard for me to adapt to since I've always been the primary care giver, but it was best for them. The ow was living with him up untill just a couple of weeks ago, when he decided he needed that relationship to end, me being a part of that ecuashion (becouse he still loves me) but mainly due to the relationship itself.

I wish I was not judgemental, I do not like the ow for resons out side of having an affair with my h. She has controled my h from the start, has minipulated him, and in the past my children aswell. I have very strong opinons about her, but I can see she has good qualites, one being that she has gone the extra mile with our children and now her new baby. I do not talk with her, as I think she has a worped perspective, is stubern, and is very imature... I relize why she was vulnerable for an affair, but I do harber resentment tward her for continueing the affair after my h kept on a relationship with me, but she is a complicated, and obviously didn't cuff my h, h was intoxicated with the illushion, and I supose the freedom we never experianced as a couple, due to haveing children and geting married young....

Our children want her in there life, and are conserned about her feelings, to the point where it is hard for me to deal with. But what do you do, tell your children , stop careing about someone who hurt me with there actions! I respect that they love her, and want to see her, and I swallow the hurt I feel from it. I just don't think it should be to often , or it will feel like she is still "there pretend step mom". And more like a very close loveing friendship.

At this point Im more consirend with my h's laxed atutued about laying down the law so to speak with the ow, but I do realize it took alot of strengh to fight her to get out, and is now very tierd.He may never want things clear cut, but of course if that's the case we will never get back together. Being flexable is good, but now that she's out of the house she need not make plans with the kids, without asking him first, in my opinon.

(quote)
"As a mother, it is your primary role in life to protect your children, not to facilitate "smooth" relationships between them and their father's lover, even if there are other half-siblings involved.

You seem to be under the impression that the relationships between the children are conflict-free, but I suspect that is never the case. There may be unspoken emotional conflicts and jealousies which are acted out between them without your knowledge. If your children perceive that you WANT them to get along, they may hide their real feelings from you for fear of making you unhappy with them."


Of course I agree my primary role is to protect my children. And I have no intention of smoothing out a relationship with the kids and ow. I dont' belive in forcing children to have relaitonships they dont' want. Im not encouriging there relaitonship with her or discoriging it either, my problems or feelings have about things I convey to there father. I dont' care if they never talk to her again, but they do , so becouse of that I care. But want to protect them from confushion of roles etc, so I wanted some advice on what worked for others.

Luckly my children aren't concerend if I'm unhappy.lol. The tell me exactly how they feel, pritty much all the time. There is no jelousey between the siblings, which Im actually suprised about. The only time I've seen my children jelouse is when It's ones b-day, and the others want new presents. To witch we ushaualy give a non b-day present to each. Even my oldest is expresive and she is a pre teen, and has asked me very hard questions, which I had to adress as a loveing parent, not a betrayed spouse., Im not sure how you got that asumption from my post?

(quote)
"In other words, what is best for them may not be that they be able to have access to their step brothers or sisters, and vice-versa, especially if their father is now back living with you. Most children want clearly defined roles - and it is up to you to provide them with those role models. They look to you as a model for forgiveness and reconciliation, but they also need you to protect them, not just from physical danger, but from emotional harm."

In my opinon keeping them from a sibling would not only be emotionaly harmful, selfish , but down right discusting!!! My h and I are seperated, we are not ready for anything more right now and becouse of us unshureness our children are not aware that we are seeing where things are going, becouse we do not want to let them down.

Clearly we have different definishion of role models.... A role model to me is someone that has pitfals in there lives and has risn from them, not defind themselves by them. And as I mentioned above, my children do not know of the affair.

Most children need to feel loved, by as many people that give it freely, most children need to be understood, ascepted, and there wants herd,to be respected and treated like an individual,and most children need there parents to be selfless not selfish, but unforchunatly that is not what most parents give them. But it's what my children get.The have there loveing father and there loveing mother, whether we are together or apart forever, those roles will never change.


Lady in red, Im so sorry you had a difficult time as a child and your father forced a relationship on you that you might not have wanted, Im sorry that made your perseption of what you should expect scuewd. But no one in my situation is forcing anything, and I have not shown a tolerence for the ow. The children do not know of the affair, they were told when there father left again in sept, that we were getting a devorice, and at that moment and months after that was the case, and probably still be for our own reasons, not to say we don't want a "new" relationship. I have not shown them tolerance at all, what I have shown them is acseptance of situations. Sometimes regardles of how you feel you must acsept what is , is.

(quote)
"Another "red flag" in your post - you said something about letting your children's R with OP continue as it is "beneficial for her". What is beneficial to her is none of your concern. Her life, her children, and her happiness, is her responsibility - it is not up to you to provide, or to continue to provide anything for her that contributes to her happiness."

ok, you got me there I did say that and that left room for confushion. I said that becouse I wanted to show that I don't belive there is a hidden agenda at this moment for her wanting a conection with my children. I could be very wrong, but that is what I ment to convay... I don't have any plans on makeing her happy, nor would I want to try. I don't have any good feelings about her, I don't want terriable things to happen to her though but I don't want terriable things to happen to anyone.. I wouldn't have a desire in the least to make her happy, just to clearify things.I dont' like her at all, and wished she would just drop my step daughter off at my h's house on a rotation, and we never had to talk to her again... But that is rediculouse, and will not happen in this situation, nor do I really want to see that happen becouse I belive a friendship between him and her is important now that they have a child.And since my children love her, I would actually be mad at her if she diped out of their lives completly, becouse that would show it was all an alushion, even the love of my children, and they would be hurt by that very deeply...

(quote)
"Do you see what I am driving at? I believed that I was being generous and that I should facilitate what was essentially a good friendship - and that I should not disturb the bonds of friendship that had been formed between my H and this friend, which included her H and all of their children. It was only after being married, and realizing that we never became closer to each other emotionally - in fact, over the years, it has become clear to me that she is still the first person he turns to in times of emotional crisis, not to me. That hurts more than I can say."

I am soooo sorry you had to deal with this and are still dealing with this. It is something that I would not deal with personaly. Becouse he is most defenatly robing your relationship of real intamacy, but he may be unaware of it... Everyone needs friends and someone to confid in but if he is confiding with someone that hurts your heart that deeply, then I would feel the same as you, and would have a heart to heart with him, and truley listen to him, the why's etc... Express your feelings but also listen to why he feels he can't express serton things to you, and have you be his confidon....

You know that's something to be seen in my situation still, and is mainly why even if he wanted to come back to my home right now, I would not have it... It's the quick fixes the feel good reconects that happen when both clearly are not at the level of intamicy at the moment where both would say, I do, all over again.. I am no longer afraid of being alone, and I don't want to settle for anything less. I rather be apart forever, then be miserable becouse he is not willing or can't give me the emotional understanding and consideration I need.

My relationship wories or sucsesses, are very different from my wories or sucsesses with my children, and I see them as two seperate entities.

(qoute)
"I also have to agree with ML - that it is unfortunate that your H has another child with her - this means that your H will have a lifetime connection to the OP, which will always remain as a threat to your M. If you truly want to recover your M, you should set very clear boundaries about contact between them, clear visitation agreements, and be able to discuss these openly with your H - otherwise, OP will use the "needs" of their child as an excuse to maintain constant contact with your H. I think you will need good legal advice in order to be clear about how to handle this."

Hmmm, well she may very well use the "needs" of their child as an excuese to maintain constant contact with my h, that remains to be seen. There should be a healthy level of contant, inmho, becouse we all want the oc to grow up loved, with both a father and a mother etc.. She may do alot of things, who knows, but my h is a smart cookie adn he will be able to sift through the important, and non, and deal with that in an apropriate way if that ever happens.. I think it will personaly, but he can smell bull a mile away becouse he was so good at produsing it.

The baby is no threat to our marriage.. And never would be. The only way we will ever have a good marriage is if my h's heart is in it, if not then there will be no marriage... Him talking to her or her taking our children places, will not harm our marriage.. Him choosing to kiss, her or make future plans with her, confid in her, or f her would threatin our marriage, which it did, and we are seperated, if it happened again, I would never be able to be in a relationship with him, and that does include our "testing out period".

I've had to adjust my feelings about marriage, life, people etc.. And Im better off for it...

I love my h, and he's worth seeing if we can have a healthy new relationship, becouse even before this ow, it was a toxic on full of out lived behavior patterns, etc...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you both for your posts...

I hope others deside to give some insights on the spisific questions I asked....

If you have had a situation like this where the children already have a conection with the ow (it's there, can't turn back time) how are you handiling it, or how did you handle it.....

How did you deal with the discomfort and conflicting feelings yourself....

And how did your ws figure out how to balance things out without hurting you as a side effect of his choices....


thanks again...

allofme, you are the parent here and, as such, it is up to you to protect your children from inappropriate connections. This woman is not an appropriate role model for your children. This is one of the main reasons that you shouldn't expose children to affair partners, because they DON'T LAST and because they are inappropriate. As you can SEE, allowing them to visit the OW has only caused additional complications in this already complicated, painful situation. Exposing children to these situations is the same as condoning adultery.

However, as a parent, it is up to you to make decisions that are in their best interest but that they may not like. It doesn't matter if they "like" the OW, her influence is not a good influence and it is up to you to end the relationship. You must protect them from this whether they see how wrong it really is.

What will you do when they get attached to the next OW?

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Of course your children must know he had an affair - your are still married, aren't you? He lived with the OW and got her pregnant - how much more obvious could it be? Whether or not you were separated is irrelevant - if you were married, it is adultery, and it is wrong.

The baby is not technically your stepdaughter, which according to Merriam-Webster, is the child of one's husband or wife by a former marriage.

Just out of curiousity - what reason do you have to think that the baby will ever be on a bottle? - I gather the OW is breastfeeding the baby now.

I find it rather hard to believe that your children "love" the OP - typically children take a very long time to even warm up to their parents' new partners, even when the parents wait a decent amount of time after a divorce to acquire them.

I truly am shocked! I came to this board, after a long hiatis, looking for some insight, and possible emotional support and I've seemed to have hit a nerve with everyone here... No one is realy looking at what I've typed.....


Melody lane,
"If you don't perceive a very possible - and probable - continuation of the affair as a "problem" then I guess it's not a problem. But their continued contact will always be a threat to your marriage. But then, I suspect you don't view adultery as a problem and might have an open marriage?"

Was this nesisary? I have been through the most pain in my life these past two years!!!!!! I would most definatly never have an open marriage and the thought discusts me! If my h chooses to start up the affair again, im not going to be in our relationship any more, I made that clear I belive twice now! Adultery is wrong and hurts many inocint people, I have been a fathful honest wife, and I shurly don't expect anyone to say becouse I've come to grips with my anger and have realized I and no one else on this plant wether they think that or not, has control over chocies others make... I have made a conciouse choice to see what we have, if things go back to the same as before, I will not be around...

Adultery is wrong, I never said or implied that I thought it was a good thing, Im a very spiritual person, with a clear understanding of the laws of god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many parents do not expose there children to there problems, or shamful behavior, many children hear from familys of MB'ers do not know of the affair.......

(qoute)
"Of course he is on probation. He has to reprove himself after having an affair. He has to earn trust again. I think that affording trust to an untrustworthy person is insane, allofme. And that is what it comes down to. You are affording trust to an untrustworthy person and setting yourself up for future harm. You can see for yourself what happens when you blindly trust an individual.

What you call being a "probation officer" is simply setting protective boundaries for yourself. You refuse to do this to your own detriment. It doesn't make you virtuous, just foolish. If someone robs the bank, you don't give them keys to the vault, you guard the vault better.

I would also point out that since there are no consequences for adultery in your marriage, that your H is very likely to do it again. It will just be another "choice." And sadly, that "choice" is one that will devastate your family and expose you to STDs. You have a responsibility as a parent to protect yourself and your children from this."


Again you are being asumptive and have not truley read what I clearly stated! There have been consequences, many, this has been a 2 year time peirod are you kiding!!!! We are just now in the begining stages of a real relationship... I have boundries for myself, I have stated them above... We are seperated, I asked him to leave, I filled for devorice in Dec, but it is curently not gone through as of yet becouse we are now rebuilding... He know's what boundries not to cross, just as I do, if he chooses to, then I will complete the devorice.... I just don't see how your comeing to some of these conclushions... My questions were about the children etc... I've already taken care of the relationship issues and putting them behind me, we are starting over....

Of course theres no clean slate and trust isn't given blindly, this is a day by day deal, im not an ignorent fool... I was part of MB for over a year, but the ow was reading my posts, so I left for awhile... I have read many books including Dr Harveys...... I do not have rose colored glasses on, and see all the posobilityes all the what ifs etc... But I do not want a relationship based on control and if I have to be a woren in order to keep him , I DON'T WANT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IS that clear enough! I don't understand why I got under your skin, but come on, were all here for support.... I had a hard time of it, and I finaly feel good about myself, I don't have to have him, but I want to...

The std remark could be for us all not just for myself.. Bottom line if your h wanted to cheet on you again he would, why say that to me..Of course that's something no one wants.. It still hurts me that he put my health in harms way for the sake of fun...

I have more wounds to pick of , would you like to see if you can get some more for me?

(quote)
"am so sorry for your children that you feel this way. It is horribly confusing and destructive for a child to see a parent that cannot tell right from wrong and who sets no protective boundaries for themselves.

Adultery is profoundly destructive to a family and pretending it's not won't change that fact. It only means that you leave yourself and your children open for more destruction"

I don't get you, I didn't have the affair I don't condon affairs!!!! I have set boundaries, which is why we do not live in the same home, etc... My children see the best of me and there father. I and my children have felt the destruction of adultery. Although they do not know of the affair I didnt' say that it didn't affect them. The fog stage when my h rarly came to see them etc.. Was very hard to work through with them and could only be repared by his reconection with them.

What am I pretending about? That my marriage will work, I have no clue if it will or not, and my children don't even know that there father and I are rebuilding becouse we don't want them to feel another lose if we don't work out.. My eyes are wide open, how is anything Im saying going to be distructive to my children...

I don't get why your bashing me..

allofme, I don't think I am giving you the answers that you want and seem to be hitting a very raw nerve, so I will step away. I suspect you didn't really want to get input from unbiased sources, but rather an affirmation of your already formed opinion. I wish you the best!

melody lane again,

(quote)
"This is one of the main reasons that you shouldn't expose children to affair partners, because they DON'T LAST and because they are inappropriate. As you can SEE, allowing them to visit the OW has only caused additional complications in this already complicated, painful situation. Exposing children to these situations is the same as condoning adultery."

You are under the impreshion that I had total control of the situation.... I never wanted her around our kids, ever... I knew his relationship wouldn't work and I didn't want my kids to be mixed up in it... But when he wanted the kids half time, he had to have them regardless if the ow lived with him or not.. Im not the sole parent, they have a father, and I do not make disishions for them we make disishions for them. They are not my exclusive poseshion, he has just as much right to the children as I do... And he chose to have her around them , he chose it not me.. And now that the relationship didn't work out we are dealing with figuring out what to do next.... Men are blind in an affair... Just as if someone told you your h would have cheeted on you back when you got married, you wouldn't have belived, well I told him it wouldn't work out, I told him the children shouldn't be around her , but aperantly he didn't think I was right..

Now we have to deal with what is actually going on now, we can't change the past.. And before you say I shouldn't have "let" him have the children around the ow, let me say again.... HE IS A PARENT , WHICH IS AN EQUAL AS FAR AS THE CHILDREN GO, IM NOT ONE WICH FEELS A MOTHER HAS MORE RIGHTS TO THE CHILDREN! He made the choice to involve her on his days...

(qoute)
"However, as a parent, it is up to you to make decisions that are in their best interest but that they may not like. It doesn't matter if they "like" the OW, her influence is not a good influence and it is up to you to end the relationship. You must protect them from this whether they see how wrong it really is.

What will you do when they get attached to the next OW?"
"
Listen again, I am a firm beliver that a happy child is not one that gets every thing they want, but gets what they need wether that means they like the choices we make for them..

This I belive is not one of those.. She is for ever conected to them and my h becouse she has birthed a sibling.. We need to make the best of this situation...

Thanks for your support though, and as far as the next ow coment, it doesn't even worent a rebuddle...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by *allofme*:
melody lane again,

(quote)
situations is the same as condoning adultery."

You are under the impreshion that I had total control of the situation.... I never wanted her around our kids, ever... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then why did you ALLOW them to be around the OW? What did you do to stop it? Did you go to court? Allowing them to be around her is the same as condoning it. Not telling them this was a sordid, unacceptable affair is condoning it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But when he wanted the kids half time, he had to have them regardless if the ow lived with him or not.. Im not the sole parent, they have a father, and I do not make disishions for them we make disishions for them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if he wanted to take them to a strip bar or a crack house, you would have allowed this because he is their parent? C'mon! When one parent has lost their mind and is exposing their children to sleazy situations, it is up to the OTHER PARENT to protect the children. Your H wasn't protecting the children from his bad behavior, so the responsibiliy fell to you.



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

This I belive is not one of those.. She is for ever conected to them and my h becouse she has birthed a sibling.. We need to make the best of this situation...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree you do. And that starts with taking steps to PROTECT your children even though your H hasn't.

nelli,

(quote)
"Of course your children must know he had an affair - your are still married, aren't you? He lived with the OW and got her pregnant - how much more obvious could it be? Whether or not you were separated is irrelevant - if you were married, it is adultery, and it is wrong."


Well Im sure when there older they will know what an affair is and relize that , in fact is what happened. Of course it's wrong, I'm not one that buys into "were seperated anything goes now deal" My h is going to have to handle the hard questions as they come. My children have handled things well becouse of how my h and I explan things, my daughter has has uncomfortable feelings about everything, and if I made it seem like this has been an easy transition it has not, but suprisingly it has not been as difficalt as I thought it would be for them. And that is becouse of there ages Im sure.. And the ability to "bounce".


"The baby is not technically your stepdaughter, which according to Merriam-Webster, is the child of one's husband or wife by a former marriage."

Well you know what, I don't plan on calling her my h's daughter the rest of her life, or "the other child" or my h's "problem" as most here seem to veiw this child as.. Why was that tecnicality even brought up? She would be lucky to have me in her life, and regardless of webster, I am her step mother...

"Just out of curiousity - what reason do you have to think that the baby will ever be on a bottle? - I gather the OW is breastfeeding the baby now. "

Well some day she'll have to be off the breast or of the bottle, it's not really relivant.. There will be a point in time where eventualy she will be physicly able to be alone with my h without worring about her next meal...

"I find it rather hard to believe that your children "love" the OP - typically children take a very long time to even warm up to their parents' new partners, even when the parents wait a decent amount of time after a divorce to acquire them."

She was their fathers friend prior to all of this, so they already liked her like they do some of my friends. And yes they do love her, it's not like that's my choice, or something I veiw as idiel, but it's reality.. And I agree with your coment about the decent amount of time after divorce with warming up to new partners.. And once again, didn't expect it , but it happened..


---------------------------------------------------


Does anyone have any perductive, non argumentitive hurtful things to say to me, that might actually help?

If you do please respond...

I really would like to hear of others with similar situations.. I know there out there...

I have been through a great ordeal, please don't be asumptive, just ask me questions without atitude, and Im an open book... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: *allofme* ]</small>

allofme, it's not a good idea to ask for opinions if you don't want to hear them. You aren't likely to get much support here for a plan that is destructive to children. We are not a mindless cheerleading squad here who passes out atta-boys for schemes designed to keep kids connected with an OW. That is not support, nor is it productive.

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melody lane,

I do not wish you to respond to any of my posts.. You are judgemental, and critical, to the point I can not tolerate..

I do not condon affairs, and your coment about my h taking the children to see a strip show is rediculouse..

Im not a control freek, we were getting a devorice at that time, and the reality is they went over and got atachet..

Maybe my veiws conflict with yours becouse you followed striked guid lines and your h conformed.. That's great.. But not for me I have boundries, but I want him to come to me in free will and do things becouse he wants to not becouse I told him too...

I don't want a pupit, I want a soul mate, equal partner.. And I choose to see if we can be that...

It's great though that on a place called marriage builders, Im getting slamed....

Is my ability to look beyond myself thretning to you?


And don't bother comenting becouse this is the last post you'll get out of me addressed to you..

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Now, is that very tolerant? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am sorry I so offended you, allofme, but I would hope you would at least think about some of the posts you have received on this thread and try to keep an open mind to differing opinions. They might not be what you want to hear, but I suspect they are what you NEED to hear and you may find them helpful sometime in the future. I wish you the best. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear allofme.
I think it is WONDERFUL the way you are welcoming this baby into your life.
He is a half brother to your children and you will be a GREAT step-mom.
You just seem to me to have a very gracious and positive attitude!

You have been hurt very deeply yet you are rising above it!

And you are right...any BS that acts like a warden to keep their husbands in line will be the loser because it will just push them away.
It would be like we are controlling them and that we are the head of the home and wear the pants! They have to make their own decisions and if they want to be 'cheaters' they will, regardless if we carry a whip!

And you have made it clear, the only way to live back home, is no more 'hoochy coochy' with the OW.
That sounds fair and reasonable to me!

Now for your kids and the OW being good friends, I think (in my opinion) it would be wise to gradually wean them away from her now that your husband and you are trying to re-build your marriage.
I am sure there are other people that can fill the void left if they slowly don't have contact with her...What do you think?

Do they have grandma and grandpas that love and adore them?

From the notes you have been writing, I see a very wise and mature women that understands that life cannot be re-wound like a tape recorder and we have to go forward from this moment on; that what has happened has happened and we have to go on with our lives the BEST we can!
Sincerely, Julie

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Thank you so much for your post Blessed Time!!!

I've been so stressed about my situaion, and then this...

I really apriciate your understanding...

"life cannot be re-wound like a tape recorder and we have to go forward from this moment on; that what has happened has happened and we have to go on with our lives the BEST we can!"

Thank you again, this is how I feel!!!

And yes I do think it is wise to ween the children to less time with the ow, but that im sure will come in time, and needs to not be in my hands my h needs to feel in control of his life. And the kids only see her on his days with them, they have many others in there lives they allso love of course, like our parents.. I do think it is healthy to have some contact with her though becouse of the baby, it will make all the children better people I feel... And of course that's contingint apon if she still wants contact with them long turm...

I'm kinda emotianaly drained from my discution earler on the board... But I wanted to convay to you my deep deep apriaciation for your post...

thank you, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She would be lucky to have me in her life</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would not want someone in my life who would think that I was lucky to have them there. Will you expect her to feel eternally grateful? Do you say that about your own children, that they are lucky to have you - or do you say, like most parents, that you are lucky to have them?

That poor baby is NOT lucky - she is stuck in the middle of a horrible situation, with two parents who have a track record of selfishness. Nobody is lucky in this mess.

I was asking about the bottle because it annoys me when people assume that babies will be bottle-fed, like that is somehow a "normal" progression - when breastfeeding 100% until they are old enough to eat solid food and drink out of a cup in much better for them.

If you have a child who is a preteen, I think you had better very quickly explain what adultery is. Are you saying that she does not realize that what her father did is wrong? I would worry that she is going to casually mention something about the situation to her acquaintances, and then be teased unmercifully when they realize that she has no idea that there was anything immoral about it.

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone yet again..

How did I strike a cord with she would be lucky to have me as a step mom comment? Come on everyone wants to find a reason to be made at me personaly, when I am trying to make the best of a very diffecult situaion...

Seriously, with the way I'm so conserend with my children and every thing I've expressed in the intiritey of this thread do you honestly think I feel anyone should worship me in this situation... Ah that's a no... Im not like that... I mearly was saying that I would be a good step mom, becouse I love her and I would provid the same love for her as I do my own children... And you know what If the xow loves my children in such a way, even after more time drifts by all the children will be better off, with more to love them....

What would make you more comfortable here? Me freeking out becouse she was pregnant, cause that already happened.. Me woundering how I could acsept a child into my life that's out of adultery, becouse that already happened... Me crying at night becouse I've been the only mother of his children and it hurt to an unimaginable degree to not be anymore, becouse that already happened. Me woundering and fearing how my children would feel about this child, would they acept the baby? Feel jelouse, or weird? etc, cause that all ready happened..Me crying the deepest I ever cried thinking they were going to be a "real" family, and I would be the leftovers for my children, and on and on and on......

I have already gone through the emotional motions, I have worked through them on my own, I was suprised by some of my feelings, love and acseptince, supprised me...... I'm in awe of my children. All of my fears or worrys that I mentioned above , are ither no longer a consern of mine, or I feel the exact oposite...

Of course Im lucky to have my children, and that includes my step daughter, even though at the moment I am nothing to her, she is only 2 1/2 months old.....

And for your information, I nursed all of my children, all 5! And I think nursing is important.. And becouse she is nursing, obviously my h can't have the baby for a long visit... Eventualy he will be able to... What was the underlying thing there... WHAT that Im anti nursing now! gees...

You know what, yes both her parents have been selfish, but you may not be aware that people change.. I have seen a great change in my h, prior to her birth, and he said he's seen a change in the xow... It's a start anyway... And it's not like "good" people don't change .. I'm asumming most of your h's were "good" guys before there affair, just like mine, and obviously changed alot during.... This baby will be loved by her parents, and there for is in a good situation, not ideal, but good....

"If you have a child who is a preteen, I think you had better very quickly explain what adultery is. Are you saying that she does not realize that what her father did is wrong? I would worry that she is going to casually mention something about the situation to her acquaintances, and then be teased unmercifully when they realize that she has no idea that there was anything immoral about it. "

I don't know what world you live in, but I'm sorry it is unforchunatly the norm when one relationship ends, it's ither becouse of another, or another partner is found quickly... That's not how I belive things should be , or what I have done, but I do see that is what ushually happens....... And with the way the baby came, and the fact that we were seperated, and our children were told we were devoriceing, they new her as his girlfriend that was his friend prior etc... My daughter does not veiew this as adultery, she is 11.. I have no desire to rob her of her childhood by over explaning things... I am age apropriate with explanations and 11 is not the age to explain the whole kiten kabbodle.. Many friends of her's are devoriced, and remaried, or not remaried and have a sibling from someone else etc.... I have explained what the ideal relationship should be, what love is,why sometimes things do not work out the way you planed or wished they would.. And how you need to be flexable in life, and adaptible.. Unforchunatly nelli, no child is sheltered from there friends at school and there "interesting" situations.. The kind I used to roll my eyes at before, have become my life...

I could have bad mouthed there father, explained who the xow was, what that ment, explained that they did a horible thing that hurt me deeply, explained that the nights daddy didn't come home were becouse of her, and not that he was working. Explained that this was not the first pregnancy and she abortied one the year before, explained that she's minipulated everyone in her life including myself, explained that there father spent gobs of money on her while we were barly scraping by, explained that daddy was the reason mommy was short temperd for months, why they walked in on me crying. Explaine why daddys business really failed, which was becouse he was off playing with the xow more then not. Explain that the reason I was the one to take them to my inlaws was becouse my inlaws and there dad weren't talking becouse of his choices, and not becouse dad was busy...

Yes maybe if I explained all of that to them then I would be veiwed as a responsible parent in your eyes, and selfless, becouse I wouldn't be holding back...

But you know what, in my eyes that would be selfish, and it makes me so angry when I see other parents dump there emotional garbage on there children, and are overly blunt with them.. It changes the children, and there inocince of childhood is gone....

I portected my childrens emotional health constantly these past two years, and I will continue to do so, and that includes my step daughter...

I was an idealist, now Im a realist, everything doesn't fit into a nice little box with a bow on top wich you can lable and put aside... Life isn't like that...

As my children grow older I expect espeshialy the older ones to ask more questions, and we will give them honest answers... When there ready they will ask kids always do... When my 4 year old asked , where do babys come from, my answer to him was very different then that I gave my 11 year old, and when she becomes even older what I say will be different and more complete then what I told her at 11, age apropriateness is important......

As far as my daughter being teased becouse her parents were getting devoriced, her father had a girlfriend who ended up haveing his child... COme on, this is not the 1940's, and that is not a shocker.... Not that I agree it's Ideal, and not that my h feels it is ither, but it is reality, theres nothing to do but make the very best of the situation..... And sorry to say but it unforchunatly is not the norm for children these days to not have a split home, or a blended family...

This is not a debate to what is more healthy, a home with a mother and father happily raising there children and in love, is obviously it hands down.... But that is no longer the situation, and that's just reality...

Don't really know why Im striking a nerve with you, perhaps you explained things to your children very differently, if so I hope they handled things well...