Ark et al.:

Well, I've had to break Plan B. Taxes. My accountant told me I had to contact him to see what he did. (And my lawyer says it will be much cheaper to talk to him rather than pay him to talk to him...so)

I didn't want to do it. I didn't have a foghorn. But I telephoned.

Here's fog for you: He filed as "single." Our D won't be final till late this summer at the earliest! Is this even legal? (After all, he "feels" single, so why shouldn't he file as single...so the fog goes.)

Honestly, folks, his fog is so deep. So here's my question. My H does not LB. If he LB'ed, he would be out of control. Since nothing is "wrong" for him, he doesn't see any reason why he should not be calm and controlled. After all, what's a little lying, cheating, sneaking around, online porn addiction, and adultery. Nothing!

I was very calm when talking to him. But that reinforces his sense that he is in control, and nothing strange has happened.

If I get emotional -- then I am out-of-control, hysterical, and clearly the "problem."

So I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't.

Since I do have to deal with him now: what can I do?

File the legally valid file for you as married, filing separately.

Seems you have no option.

He is NOT legal, filing "single." But that's not your problem.

Suspend further contact and do what's legal for YOU.

WAT

AMM:

No, you're blessed if you do, and blessed if you don't! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"I was very calm when talking to him. But that reinforces his sense that he is in control, and nothing strange has happened.

If I get emotional -- then I am out-of-control, hysterical, and clearly the "problem.""

So what if this is what he thinks? What do you think?

You're fine, if you want my opinion.

Wat's right about the taxes. Them IRS boys and girls are going 2 be all over his beautox if he's even bending the rules... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

-ol' 2long

So nice of you both, WAT and 2L, to reply!
I'm truly honored. WAT: how can I avoid further contact when accountant & lawyer insist that we contact each other on SOME business things??? (When phoning today, to stay calm, I remembered Don Corleone: "Business is business.") I do stay calm on the few occasions he has spoken to me -- all except once, when I told him his behavior with OW has lowered the tone for the whole community, and has been vulgar and insensitive in the extreme. I'm sure he thought that was 'hysterical,' though I was calm but shaken. Believe me, it was an understatement.

Re IRS: What's so strange is that he is not at all a "bending the rules" kind of guy. This is purely the subliminal wish to believe something is true, when it is not, I think. Bizarre.

As for, "why do I care?" I guess I keep wanting the situation to turn around. I don't want a D -- not really -- but his conscience seems to be in a vacuum-sealed box. The filing status thing is a huge tip-off to his psychology...such as it is.

OW seems to avoid spending time with him, to my eye. Not a good sign, but if absence makes the heart grow fonder, it may prolong the life of this thing. He will keep it going if for no other reason than to prove he is right.

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Check on filing status:

********************Lifted from the IRS********************
Single Filing Status

Taxpayers use the single filing status if, on the last day of the year, they
• were never married,
• were legally separated under a decree of divorce or separate maintenance, or
• were widowed before January 1 of that year and were not remarried.

Married Filing a Joint Return Filing Status

Taxpayers may use the married filing a joint return status if they are married and both agree to file a joint return.
This includes
• taxpayers who live together in a common-law marriage recognized by the state where the marriage took place,
• taxpayers who live apart but are not legally separated, and
• taxpayers whose spouses died during the year and who have not remarried.

Both husband and wife must sign the income tax return. Special rules apply when a spouse cannot sign the tax return because of death, illness, or absence.

Both husband and wife are responsible for any tax owed.

The lowest tax rates apply to the married filing a joint return filing status.

Married Filing a Separate Return Filing Status

Married taxpayers may choose to file separately under the married filing a separate return filing status.

Each spouse prepares a separate tax return that reports his or her individual income and deductions.

Tax rates are highest for the married filing a separate return filing status.

Some taxpayers choose the married filing a separate return filing status so that one spouse will not be responsible for the other spouse's tax liability.

Head of Household Filing Status

Tax rates for head of household are lower than those for single taxpayers.

In general, taxpayers use head of household filing status if they
• are unmarried or considered unmarried as of the end of the year, and
• provide more than half the cost of keeping up a home for a qualified person for more than half of the year. (Dependent parents do not have to live with taxpayer.)

Keeping up a home includes rent, mortgage interest, taxes, insurance, repairs, utilities, paying for domestic help, and food eaten in the home.


Caution! Do research or get professional advice before claiming head of household filing status. Make sure that the taxpayer meets all of the qualifications. Some of the qualifications are confusing. For example, some qualified persons have to:
• live with the taxpayer, but others do not
• be the taxpayer's dependent, but others do not
• be a blood relative, but others do not
Also, some married persons with dependent children who live apart from their spouses may be able to claim head of household filing status

********************Lifted from the IRS********************

So if you were legally seperated, it's possible that he can file as single...

Tony

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

small plus in this----if he filed single...didnt he pay way more in taxes???? stupid move if you ask me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nikko:
<strong> small plus in this----if he filed single...didnt he pay way more in taxes???? stupid move if you ask me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Married seperate is an even higher tax rate, FWIW,

Tony

Java,

He filed for D in December, but I wasn't even served until late January. Does that count?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> Java,

He filed for D in December, but I wasn't even served until late January. Does that count? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not an accountant, but I was a "unit tax officer" years ago while a stract young officer in the US Army and I learned to "read" IRS, LOL.

Was there a legal seperation agreement in place on 12/31/2003? If not, then single was not an option for him.

How long has he been gone?

The other thing is that depending on his income, it may not really matter.

See here:

http://taxes.yahoo.com/rates.html

If his "taxable" income after deductions and adjustments is under $57,325 it really doesn't make a difference.

FWIW,

Tony

No, no legal separation in place. He said it wouldn't make a practical difference, that this would be "simpler."

More fog recalled: he said it would be okay because "we" had filed for divorce.

Wrong. HE had filed for divorce.

Jeez!

Some other things that might be different. Married filing seperate may have a different "standard deduction" than does single, so that is an effective increase in tax rates for MFS.

Also, if both are filing MFS, and one itemizes deductions, the other cannot take the standard deduction, but must also itemize.

I'm sure there are some other rules, but in the grand scheme of things, don't worry about him, file yours as MFS since he filed single and let him worry about the consequences.

You can claim "innocent spouse" status if the IRS tries to bring you both into tax court.

Tony

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>WAT: how can I avoid further contact when accountant & lawyer insist that we contact each other on SOME business things???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Business contact may be necessary.

If it has to occur - and taxes is a good example when it does have to - you should do so in a business like, Plan A like manner. No emotional LBs. Strictly business.

Afterwards, back to strict Plan B.

WAT

Thanks for the clarification, WAT. I was businesslike and friendly, but I had to call down saints and angels to keep me that way.

I have no desire to talk to someone with his head so deeply up his oubliette. Strict Plan B is welcome.

I could have pointed out the weirdness of his IRS behavior and "we" filing -- his bizarre process of self-justification -- but I'm glad I resisted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>I have no desire to talk to someone with his head so deeply up his oubliette.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that the same as a "rectal/cranial inversion"?

Figuratively speaking.

All right ms. martin...not sure that my batting average in the advice world is doing so good these days......but I'm gonna swing at this one...

all of what you posted....all of it...the only thing that struck me to the core was....

As for, "why do I care?" I guess I keep wanting the situation to turn around. I don't want a D -- not really -- but his conscience seems to be in a vacuum-sealed box.

well I know two things...
your wanting won't cause any actions....

and the fact you don't WANT this divorce REGARDLESS of anything ...

he is
or
he isn't
he says
or
he doesn't say
he does
or
he doesn't do...

none of that matters
this is alllllll about you....

To me your only choice in this is verbalizing this one sentiment to him...
regardless of his fog
regardless of his reaction
regardless of whether the sun is shining...
etc...

I think that if YOU don't say these words to him...for YOU...then things are just going to be more difficult for YOU than they might have to be...

AND
if you can say these words to him with NO expectation except the satisfaction for YOU that you said them outloud to him in clear plain ENGLISH....

then YOU will know in your heart that you tried...

infact I would say these words and then WALK away from him....
engage in no other conversation about this issue except the words..

"I want it to be clear to you that I do not want to be divorced from you.."

hand him the load you are carrying on your shoulders....

and then sit back and see what happens.....

honest to God that is my advice..sometimes we get so analytical here...we weigh every move of eachothers...we watch for twitching and coughing and see if the other one's pupil dilate....

we strive so hard for these perfect plan A and plan b verbages...that we forget that at one time this is the person to whom we desired most to share out lives with....

and that remembering that...and reaching out every now and then...is not some big tally mark on the score card to be used against one another.....but it is once how we used to talk to one another....

tell him in plain words...

I don't want a divorce from you...
and sometimes I miss you....

and walk away........

perhaps it will be you riding off into the sunset...but you never ever know unless you try...

he can't take anything from you...
his words though, may say you are emotional out of control or the problem...are not gospel they hold no power over you or your tongue...

you speak these not for a response from him...
you speak them so that you can look yourself in the mirror and know you reached out and tried...

he can't hurt you..
he can't touch your sovergnity or your soul
he has no power

you never sell yourself short and let a moment in life pass without speaking your peace...regardless of someone else response...
let those moment go by out of your own fears..and there is a great loss to you...


YOU offer this gift...
no strings attached...

and it will set you free...

ARK

well, when you say that the OW is avoiding your H, i took this as a form of LBing to your H. sometimes that's what brings the A to an end is when the OP starts LBing and make LU withdrawals and the BS is NOT. you guys can correct me if i'm wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> or maybe if your H is pursuing the OW and she is avoiding him maybe he will get a reality check of how it feels? hard to say i guess, prayers to you.

Thanks, Ark. It's early in the morning (for me). I'll think a bit...the thing is, he's an attention freak. He gets off on more than one woman adoring him. He's all f**ked up, and needs help.

RR, this is exactly what Wife #2 (I'm #3) did to him. He kept talking about how wonderful their marriage was, but she was spending more and more time away from him, writing letters to her foreign lover. He didn't want to see because he didn't want to see. Looks like the same thing is happening again.

But Wife #2, although not very responsible as a person, is attractive and charming. OW is strange and mentally unbalanced. H has a long history of not seeing anything he doesn't want to see. He just holes himself up psychologically in his armor and denies.

Saw OW last night. She looked like hell. Spoke strangely. Oh well.

I am sooooo uninterested in ANY aspect about him in this...

this is all about you..

right now there are things you want to say to him...and ALL your reasons for not saying them...
are because he will do this or say this or feel....I don't CARE what he does ...

I don't care if silver nickels pop out his bumm every time you open your mouth.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

What I DO know is that you are suffering and floundering all because of his response to what you want to say...
or even what you feel.....

AND knowledge is power....and you have some power here.....

my fear is that you are letting yourself be manipulated...and that speaking your peace regardless of his response is your freedom and right....

and if you can find the words that express how you feel without any expected response from him...then I think you will find peace knowing that you did say what you felt you needed to say INSPITE of him....

ARK
does this make sense...I mean I am not talking about some big demonstrative show-down...I am talking about you giving him one or two sentences calmy and thoughtfully and handing them over to him ...and you exiting right stage..without a tussle or power struggle....

and sitting back a bit and just watching...

ARK