Hi SS,

i wanted say hi and respond to:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How you doing, FL? Long time, no talk to girlfriend! Glad everything is going well for you. My H came home. Maybe that is why I am so patient with the foggy. He has told me how his sitch looked on the other side of the fog, and he said for the first couple months, he wasn't even capable of seeing the damage he was causing in the lives of those who loved him. It is a strange, strange thing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i want to thank you for your support a few months ago as i worked my way toward confessing. when you moved to recovery board, i must admit, i didn't keep up on your story (is that right, did you move over there?? or have i been just so focused on my life i have not been looking hard enough)

sounds like you just came back from a wonderful vacation. that is great. i am glad things are getting better for you.

H and I are hanging in. he does not want to do any C. he has asked me for patience while he processes everything and gets back to having more consistant positive feelings. i must admit, i worry that without C or having us at least talking, maybe reading SAA or His Needs/Her Needs, we won't end up any closer than we were before. I have not really been consistent with giving him patience because i have bouts of getting all emotional and that really frustrates him. He stated very clearly this weekend. He is not able to deal with my emotions/my needs in any way shape or form right now.

he has also asked me to get into shape again. (i need to lose at least 30 lbs. maybe even a bit more) i have not done very good on that one either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and he told me this weekend that having me ignore that request makes him feel like he is not important enough to me. i know he wants me to get back in shape for my own good too.

he is now asking me to go to IC. this request just came this weekend.

although i think i am doing some good things and there are people here that will tell me i am doing great. i have to fact the facts, i'm not doing the right things at all.

i look at his requests, one would think the getting in shape request would be an easy one. and beneficial to myself as well as for my H and M. as with everything, i can string together a few good days, eating right, and then i blow it. and i really have not done much of anything in the way of exercise, nothing consistent anyway.

his request for patience, again, i string together a few good days and then i lose it. what he needs more than anything from me is CONSISTENCY. and i am failing at that.

his request that i go to IC. that is the hardest one to consider fullfilling. which seems backwards as it might be the thing that helps me accomplish his other 2 requests.

i have some serious hurdles to still overcome.

FL -

I actually haven't been posting anywhere. I kind-of dropped off, wondering if I was qualified to post to anyone, not wanting to hurt rather than help, thinking there are lots of wise people here who know what they are doing, etc.

But, found out a couple of weeks ago that some friends of ours are having serious troubles. They have 2 small children, and she is having an A with her boss. She has been living with him for 7 weeks now. Her H is drawn to me like a moth to a flame. Not in a bad, attraction way. In a way that we all here are drawn to each other. We all know the pain, the cycle, the emotions.

Until I saw how much just plain empathy can help someone, up close and personal, I didn't realize what my postings could do for someone here. Just to say, been there, done that, it did work out, there is hope, is very powerful.

So, for now, I am back to posting.

I understand everything you are saying to me about his requests, and "How hard can this be?"

But I know that when someone expects me to do something, it is that much harder to do it! For instance, when I wanted H to come home, he wouldn't! But when I said, fine, do what you want, we are here when you figure it all out, he ran home! We are strange, but predicatable (for the most part) creatures.

I actually would start with IC. I do not say that for you to be able to accomplish your other 2 goals H has requested. I feel that when you are ready, those will naturally fall into place as a result of happiness (although happiness is making me fat again! Gained back 10 of the 30 pounds I lost, but I'm going down again - exercise exercise excercise!).

But I am referring to the airplane safety manual, fresh in my head from my recent flight to California. Before helping anybody else, you must first put your own oxygen mask on. I believe that is the entire reason behind MB philosophy of working on yourself. Only through your personal healing, forgiveness of self, and growth, can your H do the same. And just that old time time time.

Also, there is a good chance your IC will tell you that you and H should have MC. Your IC might even know someone to recommend. And since your H suggested IC in the first place, that gives you a good place to ask him from. Then again, your IC might not think you are ready - I just don't know. BUT, that is the first thing that popped into my head when I read about his request for IC - a very good way for you to get both of you into MC.

Old M patterns are hard to break when you live in them. They are almost invisible to those living them. But third parties can spot them and call them out, and when you see them, you can change them. That is what MC has done for me and H. And when we cannot agree, we agree to table the discussion for our next MC appointment (we go each week), and talk about it then. Great way to move on with the happy parts of life. And as time goes on, we have less and less of those to talk about. And that is the end goal of MC, to be able to solve our issues ourselves, with both people feeling happy about the outcome.

Work on you. Perhaps you need to be the lighthouse for him, as he could be lost in his own fog of self doubt and pain. It is so easy to do. An A rocks the foundations of your entire thinking, your entire belief system. I know my H hurt himself as much, if not more, than he hurt me with his A. I have compassion for him. Eventually, I think your H will have that for you.

I am so happy you are on the path. It is a journey, not a destination, but the views get more rewarding the further you climb. Keep on keeping on, girlfriend. You are doing great.

Refocus. Get a plan. Make an appointment today! And don't think your first IC will be the right one. Mine was, but our MC wasn't. The second one is the one that worked for both H and I. And don't worry about cost or anything. All of that works itself out. Put it in God's hands. Pray before you choose. Invite God to guide you in your decisions.

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

FL,
I really understand your sturggle to win your H back. I used to do that alot where I would go a few days and then blow it. Now I can go about 2 to 3 weeks, but that is still not good enough. It really comes down to confidence and security. Right now your R is insecure with your H. You don't see the committment from him. You probably get some encouragement and some coldness. Also, counseling is not the total answer, it can be part of the solution.

It seems to me time and endurance is really the key. The longer you can hang in there and prove yourself, the better your chances. I know from my experience that putting pressure on your spouse to change simply does not work. I think being honest about your feelings is good, but it won't change the circumstance. You are only a few months past dday. It simply will take time for you to feel secure that he is staying with you.

When someone is closed up, it just does not help to use a crowbar to pry them open. Gentle pressure is the key and it takes a long time. Like you, I have been impatient and tried to use force to change my W. It does not work. Consistant loving is what works. Choosing to love even when rejected works. Self sacrifice works. Just follow Jesus's example. Walk in love. Forgive as He forgave.

The killer is we both know this and we still fail. But with each failure, we grow a little. We grow because we get back up and try to do better the next time. We learn about resolve and character. Becoming less selfish is a process and does not happen overnight. It takes a consistant effort and desire on our part to change. Follow God's design for relationships and we will change. He will heal us.

I know you will have to learn this just like I did. I can say from my experience that the pain is worth the reward. Change is God's providence. We can influence our mates, but we can't change them. Just this weekend, my W told me that she loves me is a more confirming way. She said "you know I love you". The reason I believe it is from her actions. Her actions are validaiting her words. They need the same from us. They need to know that we love them from our actions.

Pressure tells tham we are loving them for us in a selfish way. Pressure says that its all about me. I need to get to a point where its not about my needs, but its about her needs. I am not saying you don't show love or share feelings, I am saying don't come at them in a way that makes ultimatums. In SAA Sue even aludes to the fact that she felt less pressure to change her feelings about her H. John gave her time and patience. I'm sure there were failures, but he never gave up. She eventually fell in love again. Many posters here have seen the same results.

My goal is to look at all the positives in my M. Look at the progress and the signs. They are there. When I get negative or feel rejected, I've got to remember its not about me. I know how selfishness works. It can take over if we let it. I know you want to do the same. Just keep getting back up after you blow it and learn from it. Focus on the positive signs. The love is there and it will come out. It will get better and it will take time, maybe a long time.

I'll bet you'd like to fast forward all this stuff and get to the result, I know I would. But it seems we have to go through the painful growth experiences to get the reward. Its really hard and only the strong can do it. With God's grace you will be as strong as you need to be and keep moving toward that day, the day you reconcile with your H. I know I will get there. I am confident that we will make it. With God's help you will too. Keep your head up and don't forget to smile.

Christ's Love,
Roman

SS,
Thanks for a most excellent reply. What a great encourager you are. Somtimes we need to step away from the pain of the world around us to restore our souls. Jesus did it often. Thanks again.

Christ's Love,
Roman

SS and roman,

thanks for the responses.

SS, i'm glad you are back. your posts to me before were very helpful!!! the "been there, done that" posts help emmensly. the "there is hope" posts help even more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> so does the genuine caring expressed here to each other. so i am very glad you are back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> at the same time, posting here should not become a burden or take away energy from other areas.

roman, on the contrary, i do see commitment from my H. he has made it clear he wanys to stay married. in fact on sunday he made a comment like, "we still have a long life ahead of us"

i think my bigger problem is that sometimes his actions are not very loving. at times i can see past his actions and understand he is hurting now and i need patience (just like he asks) but at other times i jump back into the past and see his actions as evidence that our marriage is not good and that he is unwilling to work with me to build a better marraige.

it depends on the situation. i can totally be ok with the no kissing now. i mean, it still hurts but i can accept he is not trying to be mean, he just needs time.

but other things he does, are bad habits that he used to have. those actions are harder for me to look past as they are such strong reminders of how it used to be. and how it used to be was very painful.

i do think i am making good progress here and with books. and for the most part i am proud of how i am doing. i think i am growing and learning to be a more loving person too.

but i decided i will go to IC as well. i am actually a bit reluctant to do it but i think it will be a good thing for H to see. Although i am reluctant, i will still do all in my power to have it be effective. I have an appointment on thurs at 1pm.

i think i posted to Sarie too much today!!! i should of focused on myself more instead.

I heartily concur with your Sarie comment. Geez. What is up with that woman? I don't want to give up on her, but she is so offensive and strange.

I am glad you made an IC appointment. It is wonderful to talk to someone who understands, and can give you feedback, or just be a nonjudgemental sounding board.

It took me a good 3 months to be able to be civil to my H after the A was revealed to me. I was so full of anger. I am a prideful, emotional person, and to be betrayed like that was almost unthinkable to me.

Slowly, I am beginning to realize that H betrayed himself more than me. I don't really have a reason to be embarassed. Our M had problems, and there were lots of other ways H could have communicated his unhappiness to me. Sorry, hope all of that doesn't make you feel bad. I am just telling you how I as a BS felt.

In time, I believe your H will come around. He knows he wants to be with you right now, just not sure how to get through his own stuff, probably. I agree with Roman. Time time time, patience, and loving each other consistently and with endurance and tolerance.

Sometimes I do wish to fastforward the time, and be at a different place in our Recovery, but that just isn't the way this whole thing works! There are lessons to be learned, all of which will increase the happiness and strength and depth of the M. Those are my beliefs.

Take care, FL. And stay away from Sarie for a while. She is a nut-job right now. I hope some day she gets to a place where she reads her old posts and is sickly embarassed - and realizes how far she has come. Cause she ain't there now!

Chat at you later, girl.

SS

Hi ladies.
I hope you don't mind me jumping in with this comment about Sarie. (Sarah)

I don't think she is any more 'strange' than any WS that is in the BLISS of an affair.
We would hear a lot of that same 'babble' if they were posting here DURING the affair.
(Most post AFTER the '**** hits the fan' and their lives are in utter turmoil!)

The thing with Sarah, is this is such a long term affair, that it seems almost impossible for her to get untangled from that web she has created...a web of deceit and lies in order to have meetings and conversations with the OM for so many years.

I actually feel sorry for her that she has stayed in the fog for so long.
She is like the long term alcoholic!
Might not be possible for her to 'recover'.
Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessed TIME -

You are right. I can totally understand why she is the way she is. And I think eventually she will come out, especially if she keeps seeking help the only way she can.

BUT, it is hard for a lot of the BS's here to hear her go on and on with all that romantic stuff about the OM, while she is M to her H.

She doesn't do anything anyone advises her to do. Perhaps it is too soon for her to be here. She has to get real with herself before she can with us.

FL, when you talked about lying to us, or yourself, about confessing to your H, I TOTALLY know what you are talking about. Because I think that is how we all get ourselves to do scary things. I like your second explanation about backing into your decision. I have done that many times in my life.

I was talking to a good friend one day, who was moving out of town and leaving a very successful barber shop business that she built from nothing. She was going to start on with another barber up north, in a new town, just because she wanted to do something different - she was going to start off with her old trade, and eventually get a bed and breakfast, a dream for her.

She told me that to make such a brave mood, she started telling people she was going to do it, even though she had no idea how or when. She said by telling people what she intended to do, in her dream, it gave her courage and forward momentum in her real life.

I agree with her and you. Start talking, then it leads to doing!

Anyway, I do feel sorry for Sarie. That is why I hope some day she comes back and reads her old posts and is embarassed. I was chatting with 2oak one day, and he said that once he came out of the fog - apparently he was in deep and took many 2x4 beatings - he couldn't believe some of the things he thought and said.

Chat at you girls later. Gotta get my boys to bed.

SS

FL,
That's great that your H is openly commiting to your M. Excellent! That gives you that hope to hold onto while he goes through the anger. He will come out of it. I really understand your pain because my W has the same pain. I think as you move to recovery, you will find ways to work on those areas together.

I'm sure you have expressed that pain to him and he is aware of it. He may not know what to do about it. My father was a terrible role model as a H, so I knew nothing about how to love my W. There is one book I found helpful, Every Woman's Desire. It is geared for husbands and gives insight into how wives are wounded in marriage. It is like a counseling manual. I learned what I was doing wrong and what to do right. It was painful for me because it made me look at myself deeper and exposed my flaws. It showed me how selfish I was and that change was necessary. I'm not sure he would read it now, but maybe you will get an opportunity to get him to read it so he can understand you better.

I understand what you mean about communication. I can tell you I was not really happy with my M before. My problem was that I did not communicate that to my W. Often, I think if only I had opened my mouth more and shared my feelings, this may not have happened. I wonder if your H would say the same thing? I am really trying to be more open while working on recovery. I try to make the approach soft so I don't make her feel guilty. I want to open the communication lines.

You talk about the past and the things he does to remind you of it. I really believe that as you change, he will change. Maybe the key is accept them where they are right now and continue to show a loving example. My W often brings up my past neglect and rejection, especially if she feels pressured by me. So I try to focus on my change so I don't remind her of the past. It is very painful for her. I think the way to forget the past is to make the present and future better. Replace bad memories with good ones.

So for me, I need to accept my W as she is and where she is in our R right now. I understand her pain and why she was hurt before and why she hurts now. SS said somthing about her H hurting himself more than her. I can see that. My W needs to see that she can trust me again with her love and that takes time and consistancy on my part. She is responding, but it is very slow.

It is good to see you doing well and learning so much about yourself. I know you are hurting, but this is a rebirth, a rebuilding. As Pepperband said, it is a messy process. You will have setbacks and bad momements, but the victories and good times will increase over time. I know you have a giving heart and want to help others, but I have found some people are not ready to be helped yet, they are only focused on themselves in selfish ways. You are growing.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Julie,

i hear what you are saying about Sarah, it just seems like she is not really considering what is being told to her. i know first hand how hard it is. and her's being 11 years will make it so much harder. i know i sounded pretty harsh yesterday, i would have to bet a lot of the harshness i am actually feeling toward myself. its just that she has posted the same thing so many times. i guess it is good she comes here, maybe that means she must be considering it. i just wish she could find a way to start moving forward. maybe she never will.

i was here before and after the sh*t hit the fan. d-day certainly does change the focus 100%!! i was certainly not still deep in the affair when i started posting but i dont think i was 100% free of it yet.

I did have a desire to become 100% free of it though, maybe that is the difference. sometimes i still feel the pull to go back to that behaviour, only with that one person, i have no pull to go back online, although i am sure if i did go back online, i would quickly fall back into old habits. i really believe this is something i will always have to keep my guard up on.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BUT, it is hard for a lot of the BS's here to hear her go on and on with all that romantic stuff about the OM, while she is M to her H.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">for the record, it is hard for a WS too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She said by telling people what she intended to do, in her dream, it gave her courage and forward momentum in her real life </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have used that process often in my life. i think that approach taps into the universe's positive energy. i have been trying that with my teaching dream, unfortunately that has not occured yet. problem is, i need H to help with that one and i don't know if he really ever will, he likes my current salary too much.

roman, your posts are always so wonderful and i want to ask for your feedback on thoughts i am having going into IC. i'll post more later, i can't ignore work so much!!!